Be sure to claim every legitimate deduction!

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paranoid's picture
paranoid
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Be sure to claim every legitimate deduction!

Imagine this: You live in Nazi germany where the banks and the Gov't are working together to do what they think is a good thing - everyone, and every nation, always justifies and rationalizes their actions. You live in Nazi Germany - would you pay taxes? Would you protest? My guess is most everyone now (ex post facto) would say they would, but truth be told most never do.

In some or many ways the case could be made we are doing the same thing as Nazi Germany - committing genocide against arabs, the list goes on and on...

15 yrs ago I learned how toxic the FED and Banking system was, fed by the IRS and, well it goes on and on, needless to say I protested taxes and didnt pay for 3 yrs. After agents in black suits knocking on my door and the threat of court and possibly jail - I chickened out and filed. Eventually settled.

Now here we are, many on this site are waking up to how toxic our systems are - Bailing out the banks with our tax dollars, falling in line in all the other ways too - conforming hook, line and sinker - excpet for a few protest threads on some forums.

Pay taxes? Pay your mortage?

I guess it depends on how much fear one has. Thoughts?

EDIT:  I changed the title of this thread so that this site did not apear to advcate breaking the law.  As a reminder, posting guidelines forbid suggesting or ecouraging breaking of any laws.  Chris M.

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

Those in power always use the same techniques when the general population is not cohesive. Make examples out of a few and the rest will fall in line. None of us want to be that example.

The only time that doesn't work is when enough people are willing to risk all to take down the hated ones. A good example is a prison population. When the prisoners are left free to roam (in the exercise yard, e.g.), they easily outnumber their captors. If frustrated enough, they will decide they have nothing to lose and the many will turn on the few and take control.

Our country has not yet reached a critical stage of frustration. Once it does, (if it does) it won't take much of a spark to blow the whole country wide open.

In the meantime, we pay our mortgage and our taxes ............................. and we wait.

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Do NOT encourage criminal violation of the law!

Look, I get your frustration. Truly I do. But this sort of thing, encouraging people to engage in what amounts to behavior punishable by criminal statute, doesn't do anything positive for anyone and is exactly the sort of thing critics will use to try and undermine the credibility of Dr. Martenson and the Crash Course.

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

More crimes are committed under the guise of law, and by those following orders of the authorities than the other way around.

As Tim De Christopher said when he stepped up and did the right thing  - you can wait around all your life for someone else to stand up, realizing you are really cowering in fear, or you can face your fear and do whats true, in spite of the consequences. 

http://www.bidder70.org/

 

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Re: Do NOT encourage criminal violation of the law!

romberry

that is exactly what the tories were telling jefferson, franklin, adams, paine etal.

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Hold our elected officials to the same standard we are.......
romberry wrote:

Look, I get your frustration. Truly I do. But this sort of thing, encouraging people to engage in what amounts to behavior punishable by criminal statute, doesn't do anything positive for anyone and is exactly the sort of thing critics will use to try and undermine the credibility of Dr. Martenson and the Crash Course.

romberry -

For anyone who takes the time to watch Crash Course the credibility of Chris and CC stand on thier own merits - independent of what third party posters say in here.

And why shouldn't we hold our elected officials to the same standards of conduct?  The electorate doing nothing is tacit approval of our elected officials repeated misconduct - there are almost daily examples of "behavior punishable by criminal statute".

Cloudfire's picture
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Income Taxes; Proceed with Caution!

 

Firstly, there is, surprisingly, no law requiring us to pay income taxes.  This is actually soundly documented, and there are a fair number of folks who have won their cases in court, on those grounds.  A pretty good case can be made for the unconstitutionality of the income tax.  However, those defenses do not work in most cases, as our justice system is uneven in its application. 

The IRS can and will try to make examples of anyone who challenges the income tax.  IMHO, it is a "let Mikie try it" kind of tactic to encourage others to challenge the federal government in this way.

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes? It appears many already are!

I think there are a lot of pi$$ed off people across the country... as evidenced that all levels of gov't are already beginning to feel the "quiet protest" of reduced tax receipts... this trend can only grow as more shennanigan's are sanctioned by our political leaders, and, as more workers are laid-off or have their hours drastically cut; in either case, the consumers purchasing power is greatly reduced. Don't see how we are gonna buy (or borrow) our way out of this depression.

The only way that this crap stops is to "Stop feeding the Beast"... apparently many people agree!Smile

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.
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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

I don't know how many have heard the story of the former IRS Special Agent, Joe Bannister who became curious about income tax being voluntary.  After much research, he came to the conclusion that it is voluntary.  The following video is his story.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2930250138065184536&ei=rDLWSeeEOp-4qAPZq8ngAg&q=irs+agent&hl=en

As it says on all income tax returns, "voluntary compliance".  As a famous song goes, "don't mess with the IRS".

If the above video is too long for your liking, do a "google video" on with his name.  There are several shorter versions.

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes? It appears many already are!

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

Hey Worker Bee,

I just printed off a 1040 form and don't see Voluntary Compliance anywhere... am I missing it?

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

C1oudfire,

I'd never (well almost never) advocate anyone to be uncompliant with the law... just an observation that it appears many folks are witholding tax payments... either on purpose Wink or because not able Undecided!

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

It maybe a possibility for those who truely have nothing to loose or don't care how their actions effect others. Most of us have a family and we can not afford to do anything that could punish them. I agree with Sam.....that day could come.

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

To everybody participating in this thread: our attention has been drawn here due to the direction in which this discussion might easily turn.

Chris does not advocate breaking the law, whether that law be made by federal, state, or local governments.  You are all aware that the forum guidelines prohibit openly advocating illegal activity.  Part of the function of these forums is to provide a venue for users to discuss whether the system requires some change, improvement, amelioration, or reform, either in specific countries or worldwide.  It also provides a place to discuss how this improvement may be brought about. 

However it is not the position of this website that improvement and reform can be occasioned by subversion of the rule of law itself.

This philisophical discussion is free to continue, but I must again remind all users that advocating criminal acts (such as nonpayment of the taxes levied by any lawfully constituted government of the people) cannot be permitted on the forums.  Please continue to respect these guidelines.

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!
Worker Bee wrote:

I don't know how many have heard the story of the former IRS Special Agent, Joe Bannister who became curious about income tax being voluntary.  After much research, he came to the conclusion that it is voluntary.  The following video is his story.

As it says on all income tax returns, "voluntary compliance".  As a famous song goes, "don't mess with the IRS".

If the above video is too long for your liking, do a "google video" on with his name.  There are several shorter versions.

Morning Bee -

Unfortunately for SA Bannister he is not in the Legislative Branch.  As to voluntary compliance - that applies to filing.  You still have to pay taxes.  Filing is voluntary, and you don't get your refund if you don't file, so anyone who is inclined to tilt at that windmill can do so at their own expense.

There is a long string of well documented, yet unsuccessful challenges to the constitutionality of income tax established by Article I, Section 8 and clarified by the 16th Amendment.  Most are centered on the argument that it wasn't properly ratified by Ohio.  Some believe Ohio didn't gain statehood until the 50s because of clerical and admin oversights.  This simply is untrue.  Congress passed an act on 19 Feb 1803 stating that Ohio's citizens had addopted the Constitution in accordance with the Enabling Act of 1802.  Doubts persisted based on no formal announcement from Congress wrt Ohio's statehood, but all of that was rendered pointless when President Eisenhower ended all legal debate by formally announcing Ohio's statehood status as of March 1, 1803.  Not sure if it was via Executive Order, but the Constitutionality of the 16th Amendment based on Ohio's statehood status is a hollow argument.

There is a long string of case law following ratification that should have ended all debate.

Upon ratification, the 16th Amendment overruled Pollock v. Farmer's Loan and Trust.  If memory serves me, the Pollock case was based on income derived from property and a determination that it was unconstitutional because it was unapportioned.  By adding, "without enumeration" the 16th amendment rolled over precedent set by Pollock.

The home run case was Penn Mutual Indemnity - it essentially said that authority to tax was established by Article I, Section 8.  A lot of people incorrectly think the authority to tax was established by the 16th Amendment.  The 16th removed the requirement that taxes be apportioned among the states according to population.  This one went to appeal and was upheld by the 3rd Circuit Court of Appeals. 

Subsequent related and specific cases  worth googling:

Bowers v. Kerbaugh-Empire (direct taxes)

Commissioner v. Glenshaw Glass Company (defined gross income sources)

Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad (ruled that the 16th Amendment removed Pollock apportionment requirement and that the 16th was not a violation of 5th amendment due process)

 

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Professor DIAP

DIAP,

Nice Job, you just summarized part of my federal personal income tax class, maybe you can come in and be a guest lecturer.  

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

C-fire,

Smile same page!

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Cloudfire
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Hypocrisy

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TimesAwasting's picture
TimesAwasting
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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

Dr. Dawgs,

You've obviously wrestled with this Beast in the past...

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

Pat -

Yup.  A good friend of ours was a big Alex Jones fan.  We just about have her detoxed.  She was always yammering on about taxation constitutionality - all of her arguments were based on the Ohio statehood and ratification validity question.

I may cross some wires as to what each case specifically addressed, but this is a non-issue for me.

I think I will copy the post to a word document for future reference though.

Are you guys going to make it to Lowesville?  You are from eastern PA if memory serves me correctly???

TimesAwasting's picture
TimesAwasting
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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

Hey Dawgs!

Yup, good remembery.

From the Media area, which is the county seat for Delaware county... 'bout a 30 minute click up the road north of your Kennett Square days. Thinking hard about buying some land a little west of there (in the West Grove area, or maybe across the DE state line)... but me and the Mrs. have two boys who love their high school (Rah, Roaring Lions of Penncrest!) and we're hoping they can finish in place.

Nah, wish I were going down to VA... it'd been nice to meet you, the Cat woman and all the other like-minded! I'll have to live vicariously through your immediately following reports Wink!

You guys are in for a real treat... if it's anywhere near as good as Rowe you'll walk away from the weekend cleanzed and ready for action!

BTW, how do you stomach scotch? Just the smell makes my inside do flips... once upon a time I used to sip Irish whiskey, but mostly I'm a barley-Pop man (Yueningling is my fav... yum!).

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

Amen Brother to Yuengling!!!

Scotch was most definitely an acquired taste.  I was stationed in Scotland for 3 1/2 years from 84-88 and a dram of whisky was going for 40 - 90 pence.  A Coke was $3 a can.  Ales and ciders were in the middle.

One night the barkeep lined up a dozen or so samples and started me on a tour of the different malting areas and scotch regions.  In the beginning it was more of an "Yeah, I like this stuff" argument with what your tongue and gut were telling you.  But ultimately, I could begin to notice the subtelties and differences between the vattings and distilleries.  Not unlike wine experts.  And now I really enjoy the taste.  The heavily peated Islays (Lagavulin, Laphroaig, Ardbeg are among my favorites, but to this day, Highland Park is at the top of the list.  The 18 yr old is my "cost efficient" favorite, the 30 yr old is (and I am quoting the proprietor of the Whistlefield Inn on Loch Eck, north of Dunoon) "damn fine uisgebaugh".

If you change your mind about Lowesville I will personally see to it that you are taken on a malt trek from the Lowlands to Speyside (you could get stuck there for weeks), on to the Highlands, a brief stop in Campbelton (Springbank is pricey but very tasty) and we will summit with the Islays.  Peaty enough to put hair on your teeth and the soles of your feet.

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

LOL!Cool

That may be reason enough to come! I'll have to put in a request with the General to see if I can get a furlough!

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!

Pay your taxes. My somewhat eccentric friend sat me down to watch all kinds of movies that insisted I didn't have to pay my taxes because:

1) There is no law that states you do.

That's true, but case law is everywhere stating that you do.

2)  The sixteenth amendment was never ratified.

False, it was ratified.

3) This is a voluntary tax and I choose not to pay it.

While the tax is "called" a voluntary tax, you will probably go to jail or pay stiff penalties if you don't volunteer.

We fought the IRS verociously. We finally went into the summons room when we had exhausted all possibility of getting out of that. and took the 5th Amendment  to every incriminating question.

They then filed an action in Federal Court against him. We fought that doing our own legal work as by now he was so broke he couldn't afford to hire an attorney.

We lost and he was ordered either to produce his records and cooperate with the IRS or go to jail for contempt. Today, with penalties and interest he owes them around $225,000.00. That bill just keeps increasing because he cannot pay it.

Don't YOU make that mistake.

 

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Re: Be sure to claim every legitimate deduction!

jerrydon -

Nothing like real life testimony to spill the wind from the sails of those who would argue otherwise.

Thanks for posting this one.

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Re: Income Taxes; Proceed with Caution!

"We must not risk this website losing credibility for such and such" <----I see this often enough to note - "Hello?" Wake up - the fact that you posit anything outside of Faux News or MSN-BS News will already put you there.

People must be painfully conservative or fearful (one in the same for many) to need to say such things. Chris obviously is willing to risk credibility by stepping up and having such a site. Let the critics come. 

Evolution is a liberating process! Bring on the rEvolution. 

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!
jerrydon10 wrote:

We lost and he was ordered either to produce his records and cooperate with the IRS or go to jail for contempt. Today, with penalties and interest he owes them around $225,000.00. That bill just keeps increasing because he cannot pay it.

Don't YOU make that mistake.

 

As the Mod and CM said, I don't want to encourage breaking the law. The question is (philosophically) when the laws themselves are abhorrent what does one do? Keep gassing Jews? Bombing Arabs?  Bailing out Bankers? Where do we each cross the line?  We're all not cut out to be a MLK, or even a Tim DeChristopheror even a Noam Chomsky who has spoken out against Empire for decades.

Selling out to our DNA is one thing, but doing little or nothing at all to change things you know are wrong robs you of your first desire and goal. I mean, what kind of world are you leaving your children in the end then? 

Ah Malthus, he had no idea how right he was!

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Re: STOP Paying Taxes!
paranoid wrote:

As the Mod and CM said, I don't want to encourage breaking the law. The question is (philosophically) when the laws themselves are abhorrent what does one do? Keep gassing Jews? Bombing Arabs?  Bailing out Bankers? Where do we each cross the line?  We're all not cut out to be a MLK, or even a Tim DeChristopheror even a Noam Chomsky who has spoken out against Empire for decades.

Selling out to our DNA is one thing, but doing little or nothing at all to change things you know are wrong robs you of your first desire and goal. I mean, what kind of world are you leaving your children in the end then? 

Ah Malthus, he had no idea how right he was!

What a good post. Wink

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Re: Be sure to claim every legitimate deduction!

I claim every possible deduction and will continue to do so.  Nevertheless, I think this is an interesting topic insofar that it is well known that many people evade taxes, especially in a hyperinflationary or destablized financial environment.  I won't make any judgment about anyone that can get away with doing so.  I suspect this is why US tax courts do not have juries...the government would probably lose half the cases it prosecutes. 

As the dollar becomes even more worthless (if that is even possible), people will resort to barter, and while profit from barter transactions is supposedly taxable, the government's ability to monitor these transactions is practically nil, making for an enforcement nightmare.   If a transaction doesn't get recorded through the Fed network in some manner (i.e., a bank), it will be very difficult for IRS to prosecute.  It will be interesting to see just how quickly the beast starves and what actions it will take to feed itself again.

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paranoid
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Re: Be sure to claim every legitimate deduction!

Bottom line:

1) Set up a corporation - LLC, INC etc - just like the big boys do. Nevada and Florida are great -Nevada has no sharing with the IRS.

2) Every breath is a loss of intrinsic value on your most valuable investment - your life! Make sure you write them all off! Deduct away!  A good, aka 'cool' accountant can help

3) The more you erase the paper trail - the less there is anything to fuss about. No one wil come after you if they have no reason to - this is a website somewhere that does this amazingly well - trusts are the key. Remember that - TRUSTS!

4) I still think we all need to contribute to the greater good - paying Darth Vader or some fuedal king/agency/institution whatever he/they want is one thing - donating time and money for helping local folks, donating to charities etc - is a totally different type of giving.

Trying to save money on taxes is NOT about being greedy (at least to me). I always give change to the local homeless when I see them, and there is one woman I see with big bags of bottles - she must be like 60 yrs old - and she lives off the recycled bottles. Every time I see her I give her at least a $50 bill. Sounds silly but I run out of my car no matter where I am, run over - hand her the cash and run back to my car.

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