The Spy Factory

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investorzzo's picture
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The Spy Factory

 NSA is 35.000 strong...........

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/spyfactory/program.html

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Re: The Spy Factory

And listening to every conversation that happens regardless if it's internal or external to the US via the data center split in the AT&T building in San Francisco and other data centers.  People on headsets listening to any conversation when their data-mining operation has identified a particular target.  Let's see, imagine if you will, somebody writes an algorithm to identify people who have "Ron Paul" and "sustainable community" and "2nd amendment" in their email traffic...then those people are tracked by the NSA office at the AT&T building with their ability to tap into any (yes any!) conversation they want. Suddenly federal agents are knocking on doors, asking for IDs, adding names to the watch list and no-flight list, asking if you have guns... a lot of those types of people would be chris martenson website members.  And it's all legal folks.  It also happens to be exactly what the German Stasi did to its own citizens...people on headsets tapping into conversations, and sending the SS when they heard anything disagreeable...see the movie "Other People's Lives."

...and the mind-numbed sheep say "yes, must be safe, protect us from 9-11 scary people, yes, government is good, I don't trust anyone, I'm so scared, save me save me, patriot act is good."

Holy robotic brainwashing batman.  That used to be me...I was a big-time national security believer, and part of the system...I loved that scared people looked to me to save them...fed my narcissistic grandiosity. Now I realize our national security apparatus is the biggest threat to our personal security, state/town security, and the real United States as defined by the Constitution.  I have seen the light and stepped out of the matrix...if only it were possible to do anything about it now.

 

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Re: The Spy Factory

Well we could focus on building community - which was the original intent of Chris when he put this site together.

Or we could waste time jumping at shadows.......

I think I'll spend more time in the garden today.  Maybe the spy helicopters will help pollinate the tomatoes and squash.

 

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Re: The Spy Factory

It is good to be aware of what is going on in the build up of government resources DIAP, more that is happening the less potential of maintaining this so called normal life.  

However, I will be working on my self watering planters tonight, my seeds are inside getting ready to sprout and I say the serenity prayer knowing I can only do what I can do to change what will happen.  I can only get my family ready the best I can, keep contacting our officials and organize with whom will organize.

Happy gardening DIAP!!!!!

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Re: The Spy Factory

mpel -

Aware of yes, fixated on - not a chance.  This is my way of tilting at the windmill and trying to help take the site back so Chris can get his message out to the new folks who drop in - rather than have them scared away by this kind of unsubstantiated nonsense.

Have you tried out the hanging tomato planters?  We are going to try our hand at South African pumpkins this year.

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Re: The Spy Factory

I know what you mean, there is a lot more "stuff" to sift through these days to get useful knowledge.

I have looked at doing the hanging tomatoes but but my situation the pole/trellis style works better for me.  Although, I am thinking of potato bags this year to reduce space used to make them.

 

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Re: The Spy Factory

I've been at this kind (Preparedness, shooting, agriculture) of thing for about 7 years now, and I've actually dealt with the FBI and ATF.

The ATF experience was unpleasant, and the agents were bullish and unprofessional. But they weren't Gestapo types.
The potential probably exists, but they weren't threatening.

The FBI was surprisingly decent. Reinforced my thoughts that FBI agents are typically very stand-up, patriotic men and women.

Even with all that ability to gather intelligence, there still aren't enough agents to go around targeting guys who own guns legally, support Ron Paul or want to encourage closer community.

The said truth is there really are bad people out there.
Most of our resources is going to tracking them down. The American "Militia" movement is a stagnant pool, and the Federals know that.
Static, if it comes, will be on a local level, like we saw in Missouri and Minnesota.

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: The Spy Factory

I am building 6' PVC frames for our planter boxes to grow beans, cukes and squash.  May have to add on to try out pole tomatoes - we've always staked them or used mesh frames.

Going to plant potatoes for the first time this year.  We have friends from South Africa who grew all of their own food and they told me about an interesting way to grow potatoes.  Start off by planting the plant in center of an old tire.  As the plant grows up above the level of the tire, add another tire and more dirt, then do it one more time so you have a stack three tires high.  Make sure you have fill dirt in the tires.  They used this method growing their potatoes and tripled the yield of each plant.

I figure the worst that happens is I utilize a couple of junked tires and save a little space in a landfill somewhere.

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Re: The Spy Factory

The only thing I would worry about here is that the tires would "heat the feet" of those tubers.

Potatoes like cool feet and I think of tires as perfect sun absorbers.  If normal ground temp is in the 70's but a tire stack goes to 80 or 90....

Did your friend talk about that?  I am interested to know....Perhaps it's a varietal thing?

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Re: The Spy Factory

Dogs,

Any particular method for harvesting? Remove the tires I assume?

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Re: The Spy Factory
cmartenson wrote:

The only thing I would worry about here is that the tires would "heat the feet" of those tubers.

Potatoes like cool feet and I think of tires as perfect sun absorbers.  If normal ground temp is in the 70's but a tire stack goes to 80 or 90....

Did your friend talk about that?  I am interested to know....Perhaps it's a varietal thing?

Chris -

 I'll ask - it didn't come up.  It may be they were planting some kind of South African tater species that was more heat tolerant?

When I get an answer I'll find a place to hang the post.  Probably in a new thread - unless I can change the name of this one to:  "The Used Tire, Potato and Spy Factory"  Cool

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Re: The Spy Factory

Aaron -

LOL.  Nice pic.  I figure turnabout is fair play - my new motto is:  "Take Back The Site".  I hope I don't get a speeding ticket from the moderators.  Laughing

From what our friends told us, the potatoes actually grow inside the tire walls as well as in the center area.  My guess is you dig them up like normal.  I'll find out all I can and post.

BTW - our friends had lots of very horrifying and sobering stories about the South African collapse they went through.  They are reliving events now with quite a bit of trepidation and concern.  We are hoping they come to Lowesville to share what they went through, but from what they have told us, it was a very, very painful period for them - and it's their story to tell, not mine.

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Re: The Spy Factory

Dogs,

I thought you'd like that.
That picture cracked me up.

Perhaps a new thread is in order - A Definitive Gardening/Agriculture Thread!

Featuring tips, tricks, ways to approach problems and some basics - definitions and such for the beginners.

Cheers!

Aaron

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Beginners gardening help
Aaron Moyer wrote:

Perhaps a new thread is in order - A Definitive Gardening/Agriculture Thread!

Featuring tips, tricks, ways to approach problems and some basics - definitions and such for the beginners.

Yes, please I need all the help I can get in this area!

Cat

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Re: Beginners gardening help

DIAP,

Could you get some of those stories from South Africa?  It helps, to see what  happened and how people survived the situation as well as things they would have prepared better for.  The Argentina read, has helped in my planning this may as well.

CAT,

There is a Self Watering planter design that I have heard from other members works well.  I have spoke to people that grow tomatoes and are excited to build there ownplanters due to they have many problems with tomatoes spliting.  This happens due to non-consistant watering.

Look up this thread "the $10 self contained, self watering planter" it has a link to a website with great detail.

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Re: Beginners gardening help

mpelchat-The tomatoes may spilt even with the self watering set-up but no matter unless you must have "lily white" veggies (perfect form)  they are still just as tasty on a plate or in sauce. You can use those as the seed factory as well. Let me know if you need any advice *(w) on the seeds or whatever......

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Re: The Spy Factory

New Thread up!

"The Definitive Gardening Thread" has been created - but I'm no expert.
It's just a general format and place to post experiences at present - I hope it's as successful as the Definitive Firearms Thread.

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: Beginners gardening help
mpelchat wrote:

DIAP,

Could you get some of those stories from South Africa?  It helps, to see what  happened and how people survived the situation as well as things they would have prepared better for.  The Argentina read, has helped in my planning this may as well.

mpel -

Not to be evasive, but like I said in an earlier post it's not my story to tell and I have to respect our friends' wishes to not discuss until they are ready.  If and when they do, I hope they post for all to read.

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Re: The Spy Factory

Dogs (and other hijackers)

 I'm surprised you feel the need to to "take back the site," and that you choose to marginalize what I think are very legitimate concerns. The lack of focus and unanimity (the distraction of differing viewpoints) that you may view as a weakness is actually one of the things that drew me to this site. (that and guys with names like Dogs who are into the Grateful Dead!) I'm not looking to have my views always confirmed. I'm happy to have them challenged or expanded. But as a libertarian, you're going to have a hard time convincing me that disregard for the constitution and government invasion of privacy is a trivial matter.

I'm surprised you would think this is "unsubstantiated nonsense." Apparently PBS thought it was substantial enough to do a show on it. And if splitter boxes in San Francisco and the EFFs case against AT&T is just nonsense, then why did Congress feel the need to pass a law granting them retroactive immunity? And as silly as it sounds, the Missouri State Police did in fact leak a report last week which identified Ron Paul supporters as potential domestic terrorists. They've apparently since retracted it.

As for scaring people away, I think what scares people off the most is negativity. Simply put, it's about "gloom and doom." If anything, that's what swamps this site. And while I would agree, building community ties and making practical preparations for a very different world are the most constructive things we can do, it also seems to me, many people on this site tend to predicate this on one central assumption: imminent total collapse. Of course that's a very realistic possibility, but personally I think we're likely to see Orwell before Mad Max, as governments go to increasingly desperate lengths to save a failing system.

I also think the same government that disregards the constitution and spies on it's citizens will put up obstacles to community and self sufficiency wherever it can. Even as Michelle Obama is creating a wonderfully symbolic organic garden on the White House lawn, her husband has installed Monsanto champion Tom Vilsack as head of the USDA, and Congress and the administration are now rushing through legislation, without debate, in the interest of big agribusiness, which directly threatens small farmers, organic farmers, and even potentially, home gardeners. http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-bills-being-rushe-by-Linn-Cohen-Cole-090217-758.html

All this said, I think now I'll take a look at some of the gardening advice you guys have to offer here!

Peace

Greg 

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Re: The Spy Factory

I agree GregSchleich, I put these posts on as a barometer to what is going on in this country. We need to know the truth and this site I would hope would be a place for those to keep abreast of whats happening and to fight it.  I also agree that we need to take something more from this than fear or hopelessness. But first you need to know whats going on in the world. Why so many chose to run from whats going on in the world is beyond me, but then again, I have always sought the truth. Whether it be Politics, Religion, relationships,

 There are so few places left to really find the Truth.............. 

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Re: The Spy Factory

Chris, do you want topics like this avoided?  My impression was that it was an open site.  If not, you should say so and adjust the site accordingly.  

DOGS, you're like so many awesome ex-military officers that I love who assume things are as they generally appear on the surface.  There's so much potential for good and benevolence in you guys and gals...the spirit of 1776...I wish you would take a deeper look and learn about the "enemies foreign AND domestic."  What precisely are you claiming is unsubstantiated nonsense? The facts were coming out about this operation until the feds passed an update to the patriot act in 08 which made the NSA's wiretapping operation legal and remanded the 2-year long case back to the district level. We have yet to see if the district court lets it move forward or even if it will allow any of the data to be public.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/nsaspying/hepting.html

And we know that intelligence organizations develop the data that drives the activities of enforcement organizations...agents knock on doors as a result of NSA activity.  That's SOP, not "unsubstantiated nonsense."  The only part of my post that hasn't happened is the part where I prefaced it with "imagine if you will" making it clear that it was hypothetical.  All it takes is a policy change from the political leaders...the policy that determines what the NSA looks for as they mine data and search for targets.  Our society is living in soft paranoia created by the feds and the media scared of "those muslim terrorists", so I was trying to use a hypothetical case to show that our paranoia should be directed in the opposite direction...those who claim the power to make us safe from the ever-present ever-mysterious threat of "terrorists."  The hypothetical I presented would now be legal.  That should concern any ex-military officer who was sworn to defend the Constitution.  But again I digress from tomatoes.

How about substantiating your claim that the Wall St apparatus is a fraud designed to suck value from participants? You've made that claim on this website (distracting from tomato growing) describing your view of trading, but I never saw your spreadsheet or powerpoint substantiating it.  I don't need to see the data; I know you're right; it's obvious to anybody who cares to look. Same with national security issues...it's just harder to look...there's such strong resistance to looking...remember the stages of awareness from the CC?  

 

AARON, cute pic.  You misunderstand the point.  Clearly most of the people in ATF, FBI, NSA, Army, Navy, AF, Marines, Homeland are great people trying to do a good job.  I know a lot of them very well.  FBI especially is very professional as you say...lots of excellent ex-Army guys.  But this professionalism is precisely how they get manipulated. Certain government types view these organizations as pawns to be played in their strategic games and they study how to manipulate them to serve their interests...that's how the CIA has engaged in nation-building/destroying throughout its history.  Create/orchestrate a situation, get a response from the professionals.  Do you recall something called the Iraq War and how the justification provided by the CIA was a ruse? All the great professionals went and did their best to kill people as a result...and now we have established the largest foreign base of operations for the projection of US military and private mercenary killing power.  Do you recall a hurricane named Katrina? Police, ATF, Delta, National Guard assaulted citizens and seized their guns as a result of the policy makers.  Didn't happen because they're bad.  It's because they're good...they're too professional to do anything except salute and kickass rather than step back and tell their superiors no.  They just go into execute mode as the fear/paranoia/anxiety fanned by federal level civilian agencies and the media takes over their mindsets and they come in to save the day.  That used to be me.  I know that personality well. It's scary.  Now I'm fighting it.

Also you imply in your post that the German people and organizations were bad, as a comparison the US organizations. Not at all...hindsight is blurring your vision.  The Stasi and the SS were well-respected jobs to have in the early days.  These were people supposedly saving their country, serving the national interest, protecting the homeland.  They were wiretapping supposed "enemies of the state."  Only later, once the political leader changed the policies to define enemy of the state as anyone he so named or anyone who opposed him, did they get used for evil motives.  Many of the lower level types were still good people, but brainwashed and manipulated by the system they lived in.  

 

 

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Re: The Spy Factory

Strabes,

You're not wrong.
But I think you're digging too deep into this.

It's not ok for them to be spying.

But they're like Praetorians at the fall of Rome. Not SS at the beginning of the 3rd Reich.

I'm positive atrocities will happen. I expect them.
But it's because people are people. We lost Ben Franklin's Republic for mob rule, and this is the swan song.

Cheers!

Aaron

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Re: The Spy Factory

You're right Aaron.  But the SS could also be likened to the praetorians at the fall of Rome, only it was the fall of Weimar.  They were just a bit more successful for several hellish years at postponing the fall.  They were finally beaten by foreign armies.  The difference now I fear is that there is no army capable of preventing the hellish years that could result from the attempts to prevent the fall of our empire.

How do we get the republic back?  Chris', Dogs', your, and everybody else's efforts on this site to establish local community is a huge piece of the puzzle and I deeply thank you all for it.  Gives me goosebumps.  I'm sad that I didn't build local community earlier in my life and this website serves as an inspiration.  But engaging the federal level, being aware of attempts at tyranny, is necessary as well.  Ron Paul isn't enough.   

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Re: The Spy Factory

GregSchleich & strabes thanks for speaking up in such an articulate and compelling way. 

The only thing that I would add is that Chris (Post #8) did not object in any way to this news item posted by investorzzo (he brings us some good scoops).  So, strabes, please don't run off - we need smart people like you and appreciate your posts!  

This site is a valuable resource and a community - where else can you get information on government intrusion and potatoes in the same thread?

And, yes, these things are linked in a cause and effect manner - our government and institutions are failing to the point of an economic and societal collapse that threatens our freedom and survival.  The failure is not an act of nature or a run of bad luck - it is man made.  I think it is fair and logical to question the amount of government corruption and deceit and more importantly, the motives for their actions.

If someone disagrees with a topic, why not discuss it rather than simply dismissing it.  We are all trying to make sense of what is unfolding - collectively we are more knowledgeable than we are individually.

Larry

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Re: The Spy Factory

Actually, tyres are also full of heavy metals like Cadmium....  NOT a good idea if you like organic food!

You don't really need the tyre at all.  Try this:  sheet mulch the area (well watered first) you want to grow your potatoes in with wet newspaper.  Before laying it down, fold the paper (about 3 or 4 sheets) in half and remove a quarter circle about 2 inch in radius out of the corner.  When you reopen it....  you have a neathole!  Put a spud....  errrrr I mean potato on top of the holes so they can shoot roots into the soil, then cover with hay.  As the greenery sprouts up through the hay, add more hay, you can literally go as deep as you like, but it gets expensive if you have to buy the hay... though it's reusable mostly.

You will have bags of spuds growing through the hay, you won't even have to dog to get them...

Mike 

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Re: The Spy Factory

Actually, tyres are also full of heavy metals like Cadmium....  NOT a good idea if you like organic food!

You don't really need the tyre at all.  Try this:  sheet mulch the area (well watered first) you want to grow your potatoes in with wet newspaper.  Before laying it down, fold the paper (about 3 or 4 sheets) in half and remove a quarter circle about 2 inch in radius out of the corner.  When you reopen it....  you have a neathole!  Put a spud....  errrrr I mean potato on top of the holes so they can shoot roots into the soil, then cover with hay.  As the greenery sprouts up through the hay, add more hay, you can literally go as deep as you like, but it gets expensive if you have to buy the hay... though it's reusable mostly.

You will have bags of spuds growing through the hay, you won't even have to dig to get them...

Mike 

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Re: The Spy Factory
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

mpel -

Aware of yes, fixated on - not a chance.  This is my way of tilting at the windmill and trying to help take the site back so Chris can get his message out to the new folks who drop in - rather than have them scared away by this kind of unsubstantiated nonsense.

Have you tried out the hanging tomato planters?  We are going to try our hand at South African pumpkins this year.

Dogs. Perhaps the topic subject could be debated as to the relevance of Chris's message (and I could see pro and con arguments) but "unsubstantiated nonsense"????

I am a former contributor to the Electronic Frontier Foundation, the digital rights group that brought suit against Bush, the NSA, and the service providers for gross 4th amendment violations. The government DOES NOT deny that this happened. Why? Ohh, photographs, blueprints, exposed classified documents, whistleblower testimony, Bush finally admitting it's true. 

It did happen. It's probably still happening (remember, the gov't DENIED this at first until the press hammered them with numerous smoking guns).

I like your posts a lot bro. But one like this does a grave disservice to those of us that do our best to be vanguards for defense of our liberties.

Sorry. Had to speak up. It's frustrating to work to stop this unconstitutional nonsense only to have people deny, in spite of overwhelming evidence that it happened.

BTW. In an economic crash, normal institutions will cease to exist. It's stuff like the NSA capabilities that people will need to be aware of. Therefore I think it IS relevant. I don't trust agencies like these. Why? Track record. Who cares what the motive is. It's still run by people and if they're doing this now, then imagine what they'll be up to post-crash. 

One more thing. I have had some "shootdowns" (unconvinced folks) after they started watching the Crash Course. To them it was utter nonsense and they wouldn't even finish it. Usually along the lines that the leaders didn't tell them, the media isn't talking about it so it must be nonsense.  I don't agree with all the opinions here, but I can understand the frustration with dogmatic opposition to their views. I get it time to time presenting Chris' material. And these people have never stepped into the forum. Like I  said. I don't agree with all of the opinions. But that doesn't mean I won't at least entertain them. There's no harm in that and God help us if they turn out to be right. 

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Re: The Spy Factory
Pete In Florida wrote:

Dogs. Perhaps the topic subject could be debated as to the relevance of Chris's message (and I could see pro and con arguments) but "unsubstantiated nonsense"????

Pete-Ben-Gandhi, Greg -

This is likely the last post on-line you will ever see from me on this subject.  IF the subject matter could be discussed subject to your constraint in the quoted section above I might spend some time on it.  But since your post was the first one on this (or related topic) that I was able to go back and actually produce some fairly objective corroborative material I don't expect that to happen.

All too many of these posts start out with a fairly reasonable conjecture - but then it cascades into a meaningless arrangement of far fetched half truths, unsustainable logic streams and inane conclusions.  I am weary of trying to make any sense out of these things - especially when I am subjected to ramblings from some nut case like Ickes who wants me to believe there is an ultra elite group of conspiratorial, shadow world leaders who cross-bred with lizard aliens?!?!  I am weary of the wild eyed ramblings of sycophants who don't know jack squat (almost typed "Jack Straw" but that would be a Dead head flashback) about metallurgy and how metal responds to heat trying to convince people the the WTC was an inside job.  Ditto for the "one world conspiracy lead by bankers who want to turn us into money producing serfs".  Three words are all that is needed to completely debunk this - "religous idealogical differences"

Unfortunately, the line of distinction between topics of complete and utter lunacy, "unsubstantiated nonsense" and then reason become blurred under the sheer weight of the crap that gets posted under the guise of legitimacy.  There' is too much to sort through to find the nugget of truth

Sorry - I've got too much to do than to waste my time with any of that.  As I said, yours was the first post that had any objectivity.  I'm not ready to concede that violations of our 4th Amendment rights are anything more than that however.  (For everyone frothing at the keyboard with your slippery slope arguments, forget it, I'm done here today after this post).  I'm certainly not going to drink the kool-aid that it is the first step towards herding up all of the Ron Paul supporters, or Chris Martenson supporters, or organic garden growers, or gun owners, or combinations of the above who also like the Grateful Dead, music festivals and bluegrass pickin' and stuffing them into concentration camps.

I do appreciate the way you provided information that could be substantiated - therefore it wasn't nonsense) in an unemotional manner.  And without insult - which goes a lot farther than one would think when it comes to getting me to listen to a differing opinion.  FWIW Pete, you and I will likely continue to have discussions of differing opinion here because you can do so with mutual respect for the other side.  According to some of the regulars I am brainwashed because I was career military and for the past 30 years have been on the "other side", "in the matrix", "one of them" who secretly polishes his jack-boots every Saturday (okay I made the jack-boot one up - see, sense of humor intact).

The truth is, I have been on the other side for nearly all of my adult life.  I made a career out of it in the Navy and since I retired, I have been doing much of the same things.  I will close with this - I know what "we/them/they" are capable of doing.  I did some of it.  I know what it was actually used for.  Capability does not necessarily imply intent.

For the guys loading up their napalm flame strikes, save your keyboards folks.  I'm done here.  I'll be in the garden.

Pete, Greg (I'm sure I left others off, but since I quoted Pete, I can't scroll back up and see who else threw a rock at me Cool ) - see you around the other threads.

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Posts: 1200
Re: The Spy Factory

Dogs. Not my intent to throw a rock. But the inference from your post was that the NSA is a standup agency. Although I am certain that there are many fine men and women at NSA, like any agency, corporation, or group in general, a culture of groupthink develops. That's immutable observation of human nature. We can't even argue the human nature aspect as the agency is not run by a human. It's run by a politician. An unelected beaurocrat. OK, I'm done with being "cute" to break the ice. Let me be frank. It's not my intent to throw rocks, engage in battle, or broadside you. But what the NSA has done is admitted and documented. And I spent a lot of personal energy on this issue. So please try to understand how demoralizing it can be to read a post that attacks a position that is well substantiated with facts, not opinion. Facts. The case is in the court system now. The Obama adminstration and justice have carried the pail and are fighting the 4th amendment claims and the liabilities of AT&T et. al. It's not imgagined, overblown, cooked up. 

I do not wish ill will with you. But it was a real kick in the groin to read your post, complete with the insinuation that the NSA case was somehow a tin-hat concoction. If I inferred incorrectly, then you have my acknowledgement of my error and my apology. If I did not, then I will stand firm on this issue in strong disagreement.

The "lizard crap" drives me absolutely bananas too. Although it is a red herring for one to claim "freedom of speech" (this is a private site with a SPECIFIC agenda) I think it's important to let other's know that many of us find such claims to be well, absurd. I've always believed that truth, when presented unfiltered, beats BS. People will see people such as yourself and I using logic, reason, and evidence to defeat the concept of a cabel of Iguanas taking over the world. Not because it merely "sounds absurd" but because it is such an absurdly easy claim to defeat. Sunshine sanitize, right? 

Now, as to other claims, some I entertain. That's a key word. I entertain. That means "on the fence because of prima facie evidence to the claim". One example is that of the Federal Reserve being a private banking cartel. Not the first time in history that it has happened. Not the last either. 

The question, the ONLY relevant question then is: "Is the argument of the Federal Reserve being an abusive cartel with a hidden agenda germaine to this forum"? Or really, just insert any other argument that we might agree, disagree or question. That's not only a fair question, but one that NEEDS to be championed. If the answer is NO, then it has no place here. If the answer is Yes, then it should be discussed. 

I hope that you don't feel ill as a result of this disagreement. It's not my intent. And if you think, which I do not believe that you think, that somehow I have lost any respect for you out of a disagreement then let me put it this way. If that were my modus operandi in life then I'd have no friends. LOL

The litmus test, IMHO should be "Is this topic germaine to the Three E's"? If it is then we should not only tolerate the topic, but welcome it. Right? 

I do not have issues with those that served. My two best friends are ex-NAVY (Never Again Volunteer Yourself. LOL) and a very close friend being a MARINE reservist (My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment). I myself tried to get a 6 year hitch with the Air Force out of HS but they tossed me because I flunked the medical. So for the record I have no issues with men and women that serve, save those that act unconsciable in the line of duty. But, we should follow the "no broad brush" rule. However, you will see me, if it is germaine, take strong issue at time with the Pentagon and senior military leadership. If and when I do, then please do not take offense to it. It's not directed at you or any of the rank and file. Why? Because I'll bet that while serving, you probably never attended any of the Pentagon Rank & File TownHalls on military policy. Just a hunch. 

 

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Re: The Spy Factory

Pete -

We're good.  I used a shotgun when a sniper rifle was called for and was out of bounds.  Like I said, I went back and did a little research on the NSA/AT&T issue and for me to smack it with the same paintbrush I hit the "lizard-men", et al with was wrong.

And I was fortunate in that I never had a tour at the Five Sided Puzzle Palace.  Operational all my career except for the last 4 1/2.  Not sure I would have attended one of Rummy's TownHalls anyway........

See you around my friend......

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: The Spy Factory

Dogs_In_A_Pile said -

I am weary of trying to make any sense out of these things - especially
when I am subjected to ramblings from some nut case like Ickes who
wants me to believe there is an ultra elite group of conspiratorial,
shadow world leaders who cross-bred with lizard aliens?!?!  I am weary
of the wild eyed ramblings of sycophants who don't know jack squat
(almost typed "Jack Straw" but that would be a Dead head flashback)
about metallurgy and how metal responds to heat trying to convince
people the the WTC was an inside job.  Ditto for the "one world
conspiracy lead by bankers who want to turn us into money producing
serfs".  Three words are all that is needed to completely debunk this -
"religous idealogical differences"

I have to politely take issue with your lumping of "wild eyed ramblings of sycophants who don't know jack squat" with very valid and fact supported concerns.  For example, you said that "Ditto for the "one world
conspiracy lead by bankers who want to turn us into money producing
serfs" meaning this notion was akin to lizard men theories.  

The fact is that many national leaders and banks are calling for a new world order.  Haaretz recently ran an article entitled "Will U.S. financial woes lead to new world order?."  Here are some comments from this article:

  • What does "new world order" mean? There are two distinct variations. Both expressions - a new period of history evidencing a dramatic change in world political thought and the balance of power and the advent of a cryptocratic or totalitarian world government - have relevance.
  • So how would a new world order emerge? It seems that
    the global population would only be willing to accept the
    implementation of a new world order, in either form, in the event of a
    major global crisis, such as the complete economic collapse of the
    United States of America.
  • Many experts believe that this is not only possible,
    but likely. According to Professor Willem Buiter, a former member of
    the Monetary Policy Committee who is now at the London School of
    Economics, "There will, before long ... be a global dumping of U.S.
    dollar assets, including U.S. government assets... The past eight years
    of imperial overstretch, hubris and domestic and international abuse of
    power on the part of the Bush administration has left the U.S.
    materially weakened financially, economically, politically and
    morally."
  • Ron Paul sees the Federal Reserve as the main culprit in
    perpetuating and exacerbating the current U.S. financial crisis:
    "Americans have suffered a steadily eroding purchasing power because of
    the Federal Reserve's inflationary policies.
  • Until recently, the advent of a global government
    seemed unrealistic, and reserved for conspiracy theorists. But since
    the acknowledgement by then-president George W. Bush in September 2008
    that the United States is indeed "in the midst of a serious financial
    crisis", there have been numerous calls for a "new world order" by
    global leaders and prominent intellectuals.  In January, Henry Kissinger told CNBC reporters that the current
    world economic crisis is a "great opportunity" for President Barack
    Obama to help form a "new world order."  British Prime Minister Gordon Brown actually began the call for a
    new world order before the acknowledgement of the current financial
    downturn.
  • The collapse of the United States of America would
    certainly create the chaos necessary to justify the formation of a new
    global reserve currency and ultimately a new world order, with its
    central power residing in Eurasia.

Ambrose Evans-Pritchard recently wrote in the Telegraph UK an article entitled "US backing for world currency stuns markets"  While speaking at the CFR (Council of Foreign Relations), "US Treasury Secretary Tim Geithner shocked global markets by revealing that
Washington is "quite open" to Chinese proposals for the gradual
development of a global reserve currency run by the International Monetary
Fund."

Back
in 1991, the Founder and Honorary Chairman of the CFR, David Rockefeller (
of Standard Oil & Chase Manhattan) praised the major
media for their complicity in helping to facilitate the globalist agenda
by saying, "We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York
Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have
attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for
almost forty years. . . . It would have been impossible for us to develop
our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity
during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared
to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of
an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the
national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."  Obama and many of his top advisers and staff are members of the CFR.

In his Memoirs published in 2002 (page 405), David Rockefeller states that "For more than a century ideological extremists at either end of the
political spectrum have seized upon well-publicized incidents such as
my encounter with Castro to attack the Rockefeller family for the
inordinate influence they claim we wield over American political and
economic institutions. Some even believe we are part of a secret cabal
working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing
my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others
around the world to build a more integrated global political and
economic structure – one world, if you will. If that’s the charge, I
stand guilty, and I am proud of it."

You may choose to dismiss these things but I think there is more than an adequate amount of evidence for logical and reasonable people to seriously investigate and challenge the real power structure.  The more we know, the more likely we will be able to prepare and hopefully; help steer our national future.  I respect your opinion and am not asking for you to agree with me but I hope you will take the time to explore the real power structure before passing judgement. 

Larry

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