Show Me The Note; Being Proactive.

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tabletop's picture
tabletop
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 14 2009
Posts: 29
Show Me The Note; Being Proactive.

I am current on my mortgage but am wondering if it is worth my while to be proactive and seek legal counsel to ensure that the company that claims to own my loan indeed even holds the legal right to do so. (i.e. Can they show me that a wet signature went to trust?)

I don't intend to stop paying my mortgage but I would like to know that there was a legal transfer of the documents and the people who say they own the note, indeed own the note.

Even more importantly, I would like some leverage in pushing the mortgage servicer to restructure my loan.

earthwise's picture
earthwise
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2009
Posts: 848
Re: Show Me The Note. Being Proactive.
tabletop wrote:

I am current on my mortgage but am wondering if it is worth my while to be proactive and seek legal counsel to ensure that the company that claims to own my loan indeed even holds the legal right to do so. (i.e. Can they show me that a wet signature went to trust?)

I don't intend to stop paying my mortgage but I would like to know that there was a legal transfer of the documents and the people who say they own the note, indeed own the note.

Even more importantly, I would like some leverage in pushing the mortgage servicer to restructure my loan.

I was contemplating the same thing. Not looking for a get out of jail free card, but a year or so ago I attempted to modify my mortgage and got absolutely nowhere. I am currently halfway through a 15 year mortgage, didn't seek to reduce contract interest rate nor principal, just to amortize the remaining balance over a longer period in order to reduce the payment so as to have more capital available to accelerate preps.

Maybe with the mortgage holder possibly having some "documentation errors" they might be willing to listen to me now. They would get fresh, intact docs out of the deal. Here is a link that has an online letter form that I am considering. What's to lose by trying?

http://www.angrybearblog.com/2010/10/request-for-original-mortgage-note-and.html

 

Here is a recount by Gonzalo Lira of a successful modification using the leverage provided by a demand to see the note.

http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2010/10/this-is-what-brian-and-ilsa-said-to.html#more

Brian dashed off an e-mail to his bank that night—a quick post, where he explicitly said, “I want to see the loan note where it says I owe you money, or else I’m contacting my lawyer and halting payment on my mortgage.”

  
The very next day, someone from Wells Fargo called them. 
  
Not a machine, not a customer service rep in India—an actual, honest-to-God, alive-and-kicking bank executive. 
  
She apologized profusely about the HAMP screw up—said that Brian and Ilsa qualified, they qualified, they qualified!, and that she would be the one to “straighten out their situation”. 
  
Brian and Ilsa couldn’t talk that Tuesday, when the bank executive called. And for various reasons, they couldn’t talk Wednesday either—they finally talked to the bank executive on Thursday . . . 
  
. . . and during those three days, it was the executive who chased them: Two e-mails to their AOL account, two phone calls on their answering machine. 
  
On Thursday, when they spoke, the bank executive was sweetness and light—she told them that Ilsa and Brian qualified for HAMP, that they would get refinanced, that they would not have to pay the difference in mortgage of the last three months—“Your lower mortgage rate is locked in!
  
And as to the $84 penalty fee, which had driven Brian in particular up the wall: It was waived.
  
Ilsa told me, “It was the nicest conversation we’ve ever had with a bank executive.”
  
The executive promised to have the papers drawn up, ready to be signed before November 1. 
  
That’s right: November first. After dicking them around for months on end, Wells Fargo all of a sudden went from turtle-speed to light-speed—to warp-speed—boom!—just like that. They didn’t even engage thrusters, Captain—it was warp drive the instant Brian e-mailed that threat. 
  
Threat?, you say. What threat was that?
  
The threat Brian laid down, in the e-mail he sent Monday night: 
  
Show me the note, (expletive deleted!)
 
 
 
  
Saffron's picture
Saffron
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 29 2009
Posts: 250
Re: Show Me The Note. Being Proactice.

You may want to check online first. My bank has a scanned copy of the note online under "loan documents." Seems it would have been easy for them to do that with a lot of loan docs even in the rush to approve a ton of them.

Saffron, who (sad to admit) would take a get-out-of-jail-free card ... spent too many years saving (instead of jumping into one of those ridiculous loans) not to be furious at how they are keeping the r.e. market propped up. If they allowed prices to adjust to the market, there may just be a flood of money into real estate as people use that as a safe haven (in more ways than one.) Heck, we might even see a small recovery! But, no, we can't have that, because then we won't have a populace that's dependent on the government!

sorry ... grumpy today

 

 

jumblies's picture
jumblies
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 13 2010
Posts: 244
Re: Show Me The Note. Being Proactice.

If you have/had a mortgage and the bank can't show the paperwork (or is dragging their feet finding it), can you sell?

I mean, if there's a question over whether a mortgage exists or not (and if so with who) then the ownert/borrower is in a pickle, no?

 

kwigley's picture
kwigley
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Joined: Oct 21 2010
Posts: 1
Re: Show Me The Note. Being Proactice.

Yes it's worth checking into!

In my case my Title has the original mortgage company who said they sold my note and then went out of business having filed CH 7 Bankcruptcy. The note was sold 3 times. B of A says they own my note. The original Mortgage Company is still on my Title as the Lien Holder. I talked with a lawyer today who had me check with the Counties Title Company and said if it shows there are no NEW ASSIGNMENTS, I need to get a real estate lawyer who can start the process of demanding B of A prove they are in possession of my note I signed with the original Mortgage Company on the date I signed with them. There are NO NEW ASSIGNMENTS on my house. B of A or any of the other so called mortgage companies who sold and sold my notes did not register officially or legally with the Title Company in the County my home is in. So, I am calling a lawyer tomorrow to start the process. It's crazy that there are at least two mortgage companies who can lay claim to my home and only one is registered but got supposedly paid for selling my note and did not bother to take their names off the title.

Protect yourselfs above all else!

Brainless's picture
Brainless
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 9 2008
Posts: 150
Re: Show Me The Note. Being Proactive.

 

Brian dashed off an e-mail to his bank that night—a quick post, where he explicitly said, “I want to see the loan note where it says I owe you money, or else I’m contacting my lawyer and halting payment on my mortgage.”

  
The very next day, someone from Wells Fargo called them. 
  
Not a machine, not a customer service rep in India—an actual, honest-to-God, alive-and-kicking bank executive. 
  
She apologized profusely about the HAMP screw up—said that Brian and Ilsa qualified, they qualified, they qualified!, and that she would be the one to “straighten out their situation”. 
  
Brian and Ilsa couldn’t talk that Tuesday, when the bank executive called. And for various reasons, they couldn’t talk Wednesday either—they finally talked to the bank executive on Thursday . . . 
  
. . . and during those three days, it was the executive who chased them: Two e-mails to their AOL account, two phone calls on their answering machine. 
  
On Thursday, when they spoke, the bank executive was sweetness and light—she told them that Ilsa and Brian qualified for HAMP, that they would get refinanced, that they would not have to pay the difference in mortgage of the last three months—“Your lower mortgage rate is locked in!
  
And as to the $84 penalty fee, which had driven Brian in particular up the wall: It was waived.
  
Ilsa told me, “It was the nicest conversation we’ve ever had with a bank executive.”
  
The executive promised to have the papers drawn up, ready to be signed before November 1. 
  
That’s right: November first. After dicking them around for months on end, Wells Fargo all of a sudden went from turtle-speed to light-speed—to warp-speed—boom!—just like that. They didn’t even engage thrusters, Captain—it was warp drive the instant Brian e-mailed that threat. 
  
Threat?, you say. What threat was that?
  
The threat Brian laid down, in the e-mail he sent Monday night: 
  
Show me the note, (expletive deleted!)
 
 
 
  

Can a bank refinance and create a new note? If that is true then why refinance, you would be free of any payment when they can not produce the note.

If you still refinance are you then not supporting fraud?

 

agitating prop's picture
agitating prop
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: May 28 2009
Posts: 863
Re: Show Me The Note; Being Proactive.

If I had a recently created mortgage in the U.S. I would flat out just quit paying, regardless of whether I could afford it or not. Then maybe I could afford the horrendous tax load I'd be forced to carry to finance prior bailouts. It's a basic budget balancing act. The banks have to be punished right out of existence.  People have to quit paying off loans to organized banking cartels and the govt has to quit creating funny money to bail them out.  Hyenas, jackals!

Wendy S. Delmater's picture
Wendy S. Delmater
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 13 2009
Posts: 1988
Re: Show Me The Note; Being Proactive.

We paid off our house 11 months ago and--only after I called and complained--we finally got a payoff letter one month ago. Why did I ask for it? I had a sneaking suspicion that Chase was propping up their loan portfilio with us still on their books as an "asset". (As an aside, who was the IDIOT who came up with the GAAP acounting rules that said that banks could call outstanding loans to be repaid "assets"?)

When we looked at our credit report last week it said that our bank had at some point sold the loan to Freddie Mac. The credit report still said the loan was "closed," but if our morage went into a basket of collateralized debt obligations or some such vehicle, we wanted proof that it was paid. The deed is registered with the county and my husband has lived here over 30 years, but that might not mean much to a cadre of lawyers.

Call me nervous. Reading stories of folks who paid cash and were forclosed on anyhow is enough to make anyone a little cautious.

SteveW's picture
SteveW
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2010
Posts: 490
Re: Show Me The Note; Being Proactive.
safewrite wrote:

(As an aside, who was the IDIOT who came up with the GAAP acounting rules that said that banks could call outstanding loans to be repaid "assets"?)

That's the ancient core principle of banking. When a bank conjures money out of thin air to pay for your house it incurs a liability that is balanced by the asset of your promise to pay your morgage note.

Both you and the bank have empty pockets. The bank gives you its promise to pay (money) and you give the bank your promise to pay (the mortgage note). Initially this gives both of you exactly balanced assets and liabilities but the bank eventually wins as time accrues the interest.

But then you know all this.

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