seek partner-collaborator to buy and develop fabulous property

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bootstrap
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seek partner-collaborator to buy and develop fabulous property

I decided to get out of dodge (the USSA) about 5 years ago.  I researched quite a few places in depth, and traveled several places to explore first hand.  If I had to characterize myself, I guess I'd call myself a "high-tech hermit".  As such, my tendency was to "do my own thing" and not depend upon or involve other people.  However, I keep rediscovering one very unpleasant fact that keeps smacking me across my face, and telling me I need to partner and collaborate with one or two others.  What is this inconvenient fact?  Answer: after looking at tens of thousands of potential locations, it has become blatantly clear that it is possible to get 5x, 10x, 25x, even 100x more quality and quanity of real-estate per dollar when spending over [roughly] $800,000.  Most individuals or couples buy real-estate that costs $150,000 to $450,000.  And what they get is a fraction of an acre with a ho-hum dwelling, or a couple boring acres with no dwelling.

In contrast, what can we buy for 2 or 3 times as much --- assuming we spend endless hours researching our butt off?  Here are four examples:

#1: 135 acres of some of the most geologically wild, crazy, spectacular oceanfront property with a large gorgeous private beach, caves, etc.
#2: semi-tropical ~50 acre island (~1.40km by ~0.40km) 15~20 degrees from equator with 4 private white-sand beaches & coral reefs.
#3: ~6800-foot altitude mountaintop in wild, crazy, gorgeous desert environment overlooking endless ocean only ~8000 feet away.
#4: gorgeous executive vacation quality home on 6 acres of absolute white-sand beachfront property on Hawaiian island.

Except for #4, these properties are in very carefully selected locations outside the USSA.  Specifically, these location are carefully selected to be in places with a high chance of being "left alone and not bothered by government" when the SHTF in the next few years.  I include #4 because it is a very special location and situation inside the USSA that will likely be "out of sight, out of mind" of the predators-that-be.  However, my inclination is to stay outside the USSA.  Still, just try to find 6 acres with about 300 feet of absolute beachfront on a huge, usually empty, gorgeous beach in Hawaii for less than tens of millions of dollars.  Good luck.  Still, let's ignore #4 while I finish my point.

The weather in all the above locations is absolutely glorious.  None of these ever receive snow, but #1 can get fairly cold at night in winter.

Here is my problem.  I've lived a frugal life, never taken a loan, never owned a home or real-estate, and managed to save up something over $250K.  And there is the rub.  I can easily find some small, totally boring property in any number of places for $250K.  For somewhere around 3~5 times that, I could own any of these totally spectacular properties that are ~100x larger and/or more desirable, glorious and secure against what is coming to every western country very soon.

My problem has been this.  It seems just about everyone suckered for the real-estate bubble, and lost whatever savings/wealth they might have accumulated over the years.  But hey, I can't be the ONLY liberty-oriented human being who didn't lose his shirt... right?

So I'm looking for 1, 2, or 3 partner-collaborators to buy one of these properties.  I've invested some insane number of hours finding these extraordinary opportunities.  These are the four most amazing places I've found after ~6 years and endless hours of researching, searching, traveling and exploring.  In two of these cases, we can likely recover all our money within two years in the following way.  Let's take the island as the best example.  It is located not too far from similar-size islands that host tiny "vacation resorts" that charge hundreds to thousands of dollars per night.  Others offer small ocean-view [and a few ocean-front] lots for sale for a small fortune (hunderds of thousands for 0.25 to 1.00 acre).  If we install infrastructure (solar/wind power, water collection/purification, plus underground pipes for power/water/internet), we could sell 15 to 20 absolute white-sand beachfront lots along the east side of this island for ~ $100K each (a bargain price in comparison to any alternatives).  This would completely pay for the island, plus provide several hundred thousand dollars to build three small but luxurious "executive vacation" dwellings on the 3 isolated/separate white-sand beaches on the west side of the island.  This would likely take 2~3 years to play out completely, at which point we own the entire island and resort dwellings, including 3 of the 4 white sand beaches on the most glorious side of the island.  Note:  The island has a ridge down its 1.40km length that reaches up to ~65 meters (250 feet) altitude.  This makes the two sides completely private, separated and independent.  Except for a small area on the north tip of the island where the water is deep (good for parking yachts/vessels), the entire island is surrounded by huge, gorgeous coral reefs.  The island is about 50 acres, but the coral reefs that surround it cover more than 100 acres.  The island is very isolated, but less than 80km from an island with an international airport.  The air-temperature and water temperature are both warm and crystal clear all year long, and the waters are inhabited by endless amazing colorful tropical creatures.

Previously I tried to find 5~8 partner-collaborators so we could buy the property outright and add small but luxurious dwellings - all with cash and no loans.  Having not found 5~8 people with roughly $250K to invest, I am not considering the following more conventional possibility:  take my $250K+ and buy the island (20% down payment, finance the other 80%)... then find ONE partner-collaborator to invest $150K ~ $300K.  That is sufficient to establish complete self-sufficiency infrastructure (solar-panels, wind-turbines, batteries for electric power, water collection and purification for water, microwave internet connection to an island less than 50km away, underground pipes to carry power/water/internet to all parts of our island, plus miscellaneous small improvements.  Once done we could sell 15 to 20 lots on the east side to recover 100% of our investments, completely pay off the mortgage loan, and build 3 dwellings on our [western] side of the island (as well as the peak of the ridge at 65-meter altitude).

I'm just "putting this idea out there" to see whether anyone here is inclined to take advantage of this kind of opportunity, and my ga-zillion hours of research and exploration.  I can't pull this off myself without taking too much risk --- I'm a factor of 2 short on resources.  But we get 100x more per dollar by investing in a more expensive property like this one, and I just can't forget that, or waste my money on mundane boring crap (in comparison).  Anyone willing, able and interested?  If so, pipe up.  As examples, I will provide a link to a web-page that shows a couple dozen photos of property #1, along with the original proposal that "went nowhere" because only one other person who contacted me had any savings!  Personally I find it amazing how many people want to "get out of dodge", want to "get self-sufficient", and develop a more secure future for themselves... but simply cannot convince themselves to take any action!  Plus, of course, the problem that virtually "everyone is broke" after the real-estate bubble-and-crash.

Forget the obsolete proposal text on the following web-page, but look at the pix.  This is property #1 mentioned above: http://www.sovereignones.com.  I'm not willing to show a link to the semi-tropical island here, because someone with $500K could do the whole project himself and cut me out.  I didn't spend 27-zillion hours of research and exploration --- just to hand this opportunity over to someone else.

PS:  I lived alone for 7 years at a remote 100% self-sufficient mountaintop facility (except for food production), so I have practical, real-world experience implementing the kind of self-sufficiency systems this project requires, and keeping them operational.  I'm a scientist, engineer, product-developer, so I am a practical, down-to-earth individual who understands reasonably well what is practical and what is not.

Anyone ready, willing and able?

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
I'll Bite.....
bootstrap wrote:

I decided to get out of dodge (the USSA) about 5 years ago.  I researched quite a few places in depth, and traveled several places to explore first hand.  If I had to characterize myself, I guess I'd call myself a "high-tech hermit".  As such, my tendency was to "do my own thing" and not depend upon or involve other people.  However, I keep rediscovering one very unpleasant fact that keeps smacking me across my face, and telling me I need to partner and collaborate with one or two others.  What is this inconvenient fact?  Answer: after looking at tens of thousands of potential locations, it has become blatantly clear that it is possible to get 5x, 10x, 25x, even 100x more quality and quanity of real-estate per dollar when spending over [roughly] $800,000.  Most individuals or couples buy real-estate that costs $150,000 to $450,000.  And what they get is a fraction of an acre with a ho-hum dwelling, or a couple boring acres with no dwelling.

In contrast, what can we buy for 2 or 3 times as much --- assuming we spend endless hours researching our butt off?  Here are four examples:

#1: 135 acres of some of the most geologically wild, crazy, spectacular oceanfront property with a large gorgeous private beach, caves, etc.
#2: semi-tropical ~50 acre island (~1.40km by ~0.40km) 15~20 degrees from equator with 4 private white-sand beaches & coral reefs.
#3: ~6800-foot altitude mountaintop in wild, crazy, gorgeous desert environment overlooking endless ocean only ~8000 feet away.
#4: gorgeous executive vacation quality home on 6 acres of absolute white-sand beachfront property on Hawaiian island.

Except for #4, these properties are in very carefully selected locations outside the USSA.  Specifically, these location are carefully selected to be in places with a high chance of being "left alone and not bothered by government" when the SHTF in the next few years.  I include #4 because it is a very special location and situation inside the USSA that will likely be "out of sight, out of mind" of the predators-that-be.  However, my inclination is to stay outside the USSA.  Still, just try to find 6 acres with about 300 feet of absolute beachfront on a huge, usually empty, gorgeous beach in Hawaii for less than tens of millions of dollars.  Good luck.  Still, let's ignore #4 while I finish my point.

The weather in all the above locations is absolutely glorious.  None of these ever receive snow, but #1 can get fairly cold at night in winter.

Here is my problem.  I've lived a frugal life, never taken a loan, never owned a home or real-estate, and managed to save up something over $250K.  And there is the rub.  I can easily find some small, totally boring property in any number of places for $250K.  For somewhere around 3~5 times that, I could own any of these totally spectacular properties that are ~100x larger and/or more desirable, glorious and secure against what is coming to every western country very soon.

My problem has been this.  It seems just about everyone suckered for the real-estate bubble, and lost whatever savings/wealth they might have accumulated over the years.  But hey, I can't be the ONLY liberty-oriented human being who didn't lose his shirt... right?

So I'm looking for 1, 2, or 3 partner-collaborators to buy one of these properties.  I've invested some insane number of hours finding these extraordinary opportunities.  These are the four most amazing places I've found after ~6 years and endless hours of researching, searching, traveling and exploring.  In two of these cases, we can likely recover all our money within two years in the following way.  Let's take the island as the best example.  It is located not too far from similar-size islands that host tiny "vacation resorts" that charge hundreds to thousands of dollars per night.  Others offer small ocean-view [and a few ocean-front] lots for sale for a small fortune (hunderds of thousands for 0.25 to 1.00 acre).  If we install infrastructure (solar/wind power, water collection/purification, plus underground pipes for power/water/internet), we could sell 15 to 20 absolute white-sand beachfront lots along the east side of this island for ~ $100K each (a bargain price in comparison to any alternatives).  This would completely pay for the island, plus provide several hundred thousand dollars to build three small but luxurious "executive vacation" dwellings on the 3 isolated/separate white-sand beaches on the west side of the island.  This would likely take 2~3 years to play out completely, at which point we own the entire island and resort dwellings, including 3 of the 4 white sand beaches on the most glorious side of the island.  Note:  The island has a ridge down its 1.40km length that reaches up to ~65 meters (250 feet) altitude.  This makes the two sides completely private, separated and independent.  Except for a small area on the north tip of the island where the water is deep (good for parking yachts/vessels), the entire island is surrounded by huge, gorgeous coral reefs.  The island is about 50 acres, but the coral reefs that surround it cover more than 100 acres.  The island is very isolated, but less than 80km from an island with an international airport.  The air-temperature and water temperature are both warm and crystal clear all year long, and the waters are inhabited by endless amazing colorful tropical creatures.

Previously I tried to find 5~8 partner-collaborators so we could buy the property outright and add small but luxurious dwellings - all with cash and no loans.  Having not found 5~8 people with roughly $250K to invest, I am not considering the following more conventional possibility:  take my $250K+ and buy the island (20% down payment, finance the other 80%)... then find ONE partner-collaborator to invest $150K ~ $300K.  That is sufficient to establish complete self-sufficiency infrastructure (solar-panels, wind-turbines, batteries for electric power, water collection and purification for water, microwave internet connection to an island less than 50km away, underground pipes to carry power/water/internet to all parts of our island, plus miscellaneous small improvements.  Once done we could sell 15 to 20 lots on the east side to recover 100% of our investments, completely pay off the mortgage loan, and build 3 dwellings on our [western] side of the island (as well as the peak of the ridge at 65-meter altitude).

I'm just "putting this idea out there" to see whether anyone here is inclined to take advantage of this kind of opportunity, and my ga-zillion hours of research and exploration.  I can't pull this off myself without taking too much risk --- I'm a factor of 2 short on resources.  But we get 100x more per dollar by investing in a more expensive property like this one, and I just can't forget that, or waste my money on mundane boring crap (in comparison).  Anyone willing, able and interested?  If so, pipe up.  As examples, I will provide a link to a web-page that shows a couple dozen photos of property #1, along with the original proposal that "went nowhere" because only one other person who contacted me had any savings!  Personally I find it amazing how many people want to "get out of dodge", want to "get self-sufficient", and develop a more secure future for themselves... but simply cannot convince themselves to take any action!  Plus, of course, the problem that virtually "everyone is broke" after the real-estate bubble-and-crash.

Forget the obsolete proposal text on the following web-page, but look at the pix.  This is property #1 mentioned above: http://www.sovereignones.com.  I'm not willing to show a link to the semi-tropical island here, because someone with $500K could do the whole project himself and cut me out.  I didn't spend 27-zillion hours of research and exploration --- just to hand this opportunity over to someone else.

PS:  I lived alone for 7 years at a remote 100% self-sufficient mountaintop facility (except for food production), so I have practical, real-world experience implementing the kind of self-sufficiency systems this project requires, and keeping them operational.  I'm a scientist, engineer, product-developer, so I am a practical, down-to-earth individual who understands reasonably well what is practical and what is not.

Anyone ready, willing and able?

All of that is great.  One question......

Have you watched Crash Course yet?

bootstrap's picture
bootstrap
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Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote: All of
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

All of that is great.  One question......
Have you watched Crash Course yet?

Yes.  Did you have to pollute my thread?

goes211's picture
goes211
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Your thread?
bootstrap wrote:

Yes.  Did you have to pollute my thread?

Kind of cocky for a first time poster talking to a valued community member with over 2000 posts, don't you think?  We talking about the internet here and you are an anonymous user looking for someone to partner with, requiring a large sum of money.  You got any Nigerian connections?

Please forgive my skepticism.

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maceves
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Posts: 281
miscalculated

 Bootstrap, I think you have seriously miscalculated your market here.  If you have the money to travel to do all that research, you have the money to buy your own place.  I doubt anybody  here wants to live with you and bring their chickens and goats to a luxury dive on pristine island.  Sounds very fishy to me.  Most folks  here would gladly give away their information in order to educate the public, which I doubt you intend to do.

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
bootstrap
bootstrap wrote:
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

All of that is great.  One question......
Have you watched Crash Course yet?

Yes.  Did you have to pollute my thread?

Hmmm, if you think that's polluting, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Not to pile on with goes, but when you've been around here longer than a day, you'll understand that your first post on this vibrant site has all the markings of spam.  Most first time posters who aren't trolls don't roll up on us with a sales pitch and intimations of ridiculously great returns on investment - despite "gazillions of hours of research"

Most people tentatively wade into discussions about the Economy, the Environment or Energy - or better yet how all three are intertwined - commonly known around here as "The Three Es"

Your post looked like a duck, it walked like a duck, it smelled like a duck.  You responded to a post so at least we know you aren't a spammer pushing some miracle snake oil - so for now your post doesn't (yet) sound like a duck.

How about addressing some questions about energy requirements, the local government, dependency on oil for energy generation, length of growing season, type of soil, local industry, community supported agriculture organizations, dairy co-ops. community barter opportunity (my i.e., sawmill for your milk and produce) - I think you get the point.  Your pictures had power liner in them so there's something else going on on your idyllic island investment opportunity.

Most of the long term contributors on this site are all about fostering community and less focused on the potential for investment returns on gazillions of hours of research and once in a lifetimem, too good to be true and it won't last so you better act now  posts like yours.

goes is right - it's our thread, not yours.

Your move - will you quack or not............

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Damnthematrix
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Not impressed.

http://www.sovereignones.com.

Not impressed.  Looks like crap soil.  Is there ANY soil?  One lousy patch of grass with sheep on.

I hope you like coconuts and fishing.  And hurricanes.  Me, I intend to move almost 2000 miles to GET AWAY from the Equator.  Tropical life may look idyllic, but like most places, it comes with strings attached.

Mike

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bootstrap
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Damnthematrix
Damnthematrix wrote:

http://www.sovereignones.com.

Not impressed.  Looks like crap soil.  Is there ANY soil?  One lousy patch of grass with sheep on.

I hope you like coconuts and fishing.  And hurricanes.  Me, I intend to move almost 2000 miles to GET AWAY from the Equator.  Tropical life may look idyllic, but like most places, it comes with strings attached.

Mike

Hey, to each his own.  I have NO problem with that.  I just wonder why so many people are so negative today.  That attitude is an EXACT analog of the predator DBA government attitude - they assert their way is the only way, and force everyone into it.  Clearly you match that attitude.  I am opposite.  I am happy to let everyone have their own plans, their own tastes, their own opinions, their own skill-set... and implement their own solutions.  It does not threaten me that others have different plans and tastes.  In fact, I much prefer it that way.

Why is it so important to you people to trash everyone and everything?  Have you ever asked yourself that?  I'm simply an individual trying to establish a solution for my own life and preferences.  Is that so terrible?  I guess so.  I explained exactly why I'm looking for collaboration - because $250K can buy any one of a billion totally boring but totally conventional properties... while 3x that can buy something spectacular and 10x ~ 100x more quality and quantity per buck.

Further, you make endless assumptions that happen to be WRONG, at least in this case and my case.  I lived in Hawaii the past 20 years, about 20 degrees north of the equator.  Whatever "price" you refer-to hasn't bothered me here --- AT ALL.  I am VERY aware that being too close to the equator is much too cloudy, and has other drawbacks too.  However, I am also aware that once we get more than about 12-degrees from the equator, conditions get much better.  And I carefully research the characteristics of EVERYWHERE I consider to relocate (imagine that).  In case you didn't read my whole post, I also visit and explore places I consider.

That property at the web-page you mentioned is FAR from being tropical property --- it is on the south island of New Zealand.  The soil is adequate - the adjacent two properties are farms (yes, most of those properties are flatter than this one, and vastly less spectacular).  But the main point of living there is NOT to operate a farm.  We do intend to grow enough food for a few people to live on, and the property is more than adequate for that purpose.  All the properties I consider are adequate in that regard.

EVERYWHERE has strings attached.  NOWHERE is best in every regard.  I suspect you already know that, but just want to make trouble and be critical because it gives you some kind of faux ego-boost... or something.  Sadly, you are a fairly typical human... which explains why humans got themselves into such a horrible situation.  Just watch the crash course for a small sample of ways humans and the predators they sanction, defend and finance have royally screwed themselves.

I have a suggestion.  Try to be helpful some day.  You'll find that makes for much better forum content.  Imagine that.

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ao
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Posts: 2220
bootstrap
bootstrap wrote:
Damnthematrix wrote:

http://www.sovereignones.com.

Not impressed.  Looks like crap soil.  Is there ANY soil?  One lousy patch of grass with sheep on.

I hope you like coconuts and fishing.  And hurricanes.  Me, I intend to move almost 2000 miles to GET AWAY from the Equator.  Tropical life may look idyllic, but like most places, it comes with strings attached.

Mike

Hey, to each his own.  I have NO problem with that.  I just wonder why so many people are so negative today.  That attitude is an EXACT analog of the predator DBA government attitude - they assert their way is the only way, and force everyone into it.  Clearly you match that attitude.  I am opposite.  I am happy to let everyone have their own plans, their own tastes, their own opinions, their own skill-set... and implement their own solutions.  It does not threaten me that others have different plans and tastes.  In fact, I much prefer it that way.

Why is it so important to you people to trash everyone and everything?  Have you ever asked yourself that?  I'm simply an individual trying to establish a solution for my own life and preferences.  Is that so terrible?  I guess so.  I explained exactly why I'm looking for collaboration - because $250K can buy any one of a billion totally boring but totally conventional properties... while 3x that can buy something spectacular and 10x ~ 100x more quality and quantity per buck.

Further, you make endless assumptions that happen to be WRONG, at least in this case and my case.  I lived in Hawaii the past 20 years, about 20 degrees north of the equator.  Whatever "price" you refer-to hasn't bothered me here --- AT ALL.  I am VERY aware that being too close to the equator is much too cloudy, and has other drawbacks too.  However, I am also aware that once we get more than about 12-degrees from the equator, conditions get much better.  And I carefully research the characteristics of EVERYWHERE I consider to relocate (imagine that).  In case you didn't read my whole post, I also visit and explore places I consider.

That property at the web-page you mentioned is FAR from being tropical property --- it is on the south island of New Zealand.  The soil is adequate - the adjacent two properties are farms (yes, most of those properties are flatter than this one, and vastly less spectacular).  But the main point of living there is NOT to operate a farm.  We do intend to grow enough food for a few people to live on, and the property is more than adequate for that purpose.  All the properties I consider are adequate in that regard.

EVERYWHERE has strings attached.  NOWHERE is best in every regard.  I suspect you already know that, but just want to make trouble and be critical because it gives you some kind of faux ego-boost... or something.  Sadly, you are a fairly typical human... which explains why humans got themselves into such a horrible situation.  Just watch the crash course for a small sample of ways humans and the predators they sanction, defend and finance have royally screwed themselves.

I have a suggestion.  Try to be helpful some day.  You'll find that makes for much better forum content.  Imagine that.

I'll try to be helpful.  Look somewhere else.  I agree with DTM.  The land looks sub-optimal at best.  Rocky beach, rocky land, scrubby vegetation, muddy estuary, and where's a good fresh water supply?  Plus, if you present yourself as a hermit, that means you'd probably not be easy to get along with.

Pass.

bootstrap's picture
bootstrap
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Dogs_In_A_Pile
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:
bootstrap wrote:
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

All of that is great.  One question......
Have you watched Crash Course yet?

Yes.  Did you have to pollute my thread?

Hmmm, if you think that's polluting, you ain't seen nothing yet.

Not to pile on with goes, but when you've been around here longer than a day, you'll understand that your first post on this vibrant site has all the markings of spam.  Most first time posters who aren't trolls don't roll up on us with a sales pitch and intimations of ridiculously great returns on investment - despite "gazillions of hours of research"

Most people tentatively wade into discussions about the Economy, the Environment or Energy - or better yet how all three are intertwined - commonly known around here as "The Three Es"

Your post looked like a duck, it walked like a duck, it smelled like a duck.  You responded to a post so at least we know you aren't a spammer pushing some miracle snake oil - so for now your post doesn't (yet) sound like a duck.

How about addressing some questions about energy requirements, the local government, dependency on oil for energy generation, length of growing season, type of soil, local industry, community supported agriculture organizations, dairy co-ops. community barter opportunity (my i.e., sawmill for your milk and produce) - I think you get the point.  Your pictures had power liner in them so there's something else going on on your idyllic island investment opportunity.

Most of the long term contributors on this site are all about fostering community and less focused on the potential for investment returns on gazillions of hours of research and once in a lifetime, too good to be true and it won't last so you better act now  posts like yours.

goes is right - it's our thread, not yours.

Your move - will you quack or not............

Holy crap!  Either you can't read, or somehow my writing must be incomprehensible.  Because your reply bears little resemblance to my post.  Frankly, I'm not sure how a forum site can be "vibrant" when everyone who answers is purely negative, ignores the content of my post, and offers nothing potentially helpful.

I would have hoped that people in this forum would be able to see how my post relates to the content of this website.  Do you honestly consider someone trying to establish a self-sufficient place to live... away from aggressive western governments... to be unrelated to the subject matter of this website?  Really?

I DID address some questions about energy requirements and such in my original message.  I did not go into detail, because my first message was already rather long, and typically the first complaint about my messages is "they are too long".  I did mention that I lived for 7 years at a completely self-sufficient facility with solar-panels, wind-turbine, battery-banks, water-collection... everything except I was too lazy (as in busy with my scientific and engineering projects) to grow my own food.  Maybe it isn't obvious to you, but the "growing season" in locations 15~20 degrees from the equator is "all year long".  Honestly, I don't know enough about barter opportunities yet to comment intelligently, except that tons of very inexpensive local-grown food is available on islands not far away (within 100km).  What WE might have to barter for that is unknown (except travel between islands in our tiny little super-efficient 30~50mpg aircraft).

You (and others apparently) weren't reading carefully enough.  The location at http://www.sovereignones.com is NOT the tropical property, it is one of the four properties I listed as examples of getting "more per dollar" when we spend more than about $800K.  The property shown at that website is on the south island of NewZealand, which puts it WELL outside what I'd call "tropical" (though it never freezes there... barely).  As I said in my post, I'm not willing to post detailed information or photos of the tropical island because I suspect someone would buy it out from under me (thus I require a confidentiality agreement, and only from people who are seriously interested and able).  It is an extraordinary deal, which is why I want to buy it and develop it to live on.  I would MUCH prefer to find 5 partners with similar level of savings as me so we could flat-out buy the island and install everything we need for self-sufficiency.  The only reason I consider dividing the eastern quarter or third of the island into lots to sell is --- I have not been able to find 5 partners.  It appears that just about everyone except me refused to live a frugal life the past 20 years and/or they suckered for the housing bubble and are now upside-down or close to broke.  Frankly, it is revolting to me that I was able to save $250K while living in Maui (a very expensive place to live), while everyone else couldn't save anything while living in much lower-cost locales.  However, that is irrelevant, except to explain why it is so difficult to find anyone with savings today.

I am quite aware of the 3 Es and the other subject matter addressed by the course.  Frankly, I've been complaining about these and related topics for decades... while nobody listened.  So "it ain't my fault" that nobody pays attention to these issues.  I HAVE.  And I lived my life accordingly.  How many others do you know who lived mostly self-sufficient lives?  How many others do you know who never purchased a TV or stereo or cell-phone or endless other non-essentials?  How many others did not generate offspring because population is a big problem?  So take your sanctimonious tone and live an intelligent life rather than bitch about mine.

I don't know what you mean by "my move".  I came to this forum because it APPARENTLY contained people who are interested in intelligent living, self-sufficient (or "sustainable") living, and maybe even wanting to escape the western governments that are becoming the most aggressively predator-controlled of all.  And what I offered directly addresses these understandings and goals.  The point is NOT to create some kind of business to rip people off.  Like I said, I'd prefer to find partners who would like to develop it for self-sufficient living and live there themselves --- PERIOD.  However, I have not been able to find 5 partners, so now I have a plan that is feasible with ONE partner (with similar resources as me).  Yes, that does involve selling several lots to pay off the mortgage on the island and the self-sufficiency infrastructure.  Sorry if that offends you, that we end up with 20 self-sufficient familes rather than two or three.  But at root, this is not a commercial venture.  This is a endeavor designed for some small number of people who value living a self-sufficient, sustainable life without the need for external input.  Will we have external input?  Hopefully so.  The idea is not necessarily to completely eliminate all connections to others, the idea is to BE ABLE TO if necessary, for as long as necessary, when the SHTF.  I assume that some of you do worry the S will be hitting the fan in the near future, correct?  Frankly, the S of tyranny is going to hit the fan several years sooner than those physical-resources exponential curves hit the fan... and that's is the first problem this island venture is meant to address.

If you people have QUESTIONS or HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS... I welcome them.  I'm just trying to accomplish something good and relevant to the subject matter of the course.  It is remarkable how virtually all mankind [in the western world] has become so aggressively anti-benevolent.  It is as if everyone wants to assure that NOBODY can organize or execute anything intelligent and responsible.  Why?  Because they haven't done so personally?  And they're jealous?  What?  I don't get it.

What I describe is NOT "too good to be true".  However, if you believe such nonsense, you'll never look for exceptional opportunties, will you?  Frankly, it makes perfect sense to me that extensive research often leads to results.  What?  You want everything good to be EASY ???  Is that how people think reality works?  I don't, so I work my butt off, and sometimes get great results.  Sorry if that offends people.  Sheesh.

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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bootstrap wrote: I
bootstrap wrote:

I DID address some questions about energy requirements and such in my original message.  I did not go into detail, because my first message was already rather long, and typically the first complaint about my messages is "they are too long".  I did mention that I lived for 7 years at a completely self-sufficient facility with solar-panels, wind-turbine, battery-banks, water-collection... everything except I was too lazy (as in busy with my scientific and engineering projects) to grow my own food.  Maybe it isn't obvious to you, but the "growing season" in locations 15~20 degrees from the equator is "all year long".  Honestly, I don't know enough about barter opportunities yet to comment intelligently, except that tons of very inexpensive local-grown food is available on islands not far away (within 100km).  What WE might have to barter for that is unknown (except travel between islands in our tiny little super-efficient 30~50mpg aircraft).

Definitely not a quack like a duck......but here's the problem.  Before I would pause to consider ponying up $500K you better go into excruciating detail.  FYI, the growing season here in Virginia is also year round.  And the CSAs aren't 60 miles away.  BTW, super efficient aircraft don't fly without petro-derived fuels and lubricants, so that's a problem, not a plus.

bootstrap wrote:

You (and others apparently) weren't reading carefully enough. 

Quite the contrary, you didn't write enough....

bootstrap wrote:

I am quite aware of the 3 Es and the other subject matter addressed by the course.  Frankly, I've been complaining about these and related topics for decades... while nobody listened.  So "it ain't my fault" that nobody pays attention to these issues.  I HAVE.  And I lived my life accordingly.  How many others do you know who lived mostly self-sufficient lives?  How many others do you know who never purchased a TV or stereo or cell-phone or endless other non-essentials?  How many others did not generate offspring because population is a big problem?  So take your sanctimonious tone and live an intelligent life rather than bitch about mine.

Snicker.....pot, meet kettle.

bootstrap wrote:

If you people have QUESTIONS or HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS... I welcome them.  I'm just trying to accomplish something good and relevant to the subject matter of the course.  It is remarkable how virtually all mankind [in the western world] has become so aggressively anti-benevolent.  It is as if everyone wants to assure that NOBODY can organize or execute anything intelligent and responsible.  Why?  Because they haven't done so personally?  And they're jealous?  What?  I don't get it.

What I describe is NOT "too good to be true".  However, if you believe such nonsense, you'll never look for exceptional opportunties, will you?  Frankly, it makes perfect sense to me that extensive research often leads to results.  What?  You want everything good to be EASY ???  Is that how people think reality works?  I don't, so I work my butt off, and sometimes get great results.  Sorry if that offends people.  Sheesh.

I have other questions.  Where are the properties in question and what sovereign government has jurisdiction over them?  Why do you expect the shit to hit the fan differently where your properties are?  hat happens if one or more of your collaborators wants to leave and go back to being oppressed in his or her home country?  How far to the closest level one trauma center?  What type of local government is their to interact with?  If there isn't a local government on the island, what is the governing strucure you envision for the community of you and your collaborators?  How far to the closest animal husbandry expert?  Are there venomous snakes, reptiles or insects in the area(s)?  (I fooking hate spiders!! )  What type(s) of natural disasters are typical to the area(s)?  How far to the closest power generation station?  How well are the properties "wired" to the outside world wrt internet and other communications?  You say you've never purchased a TV, stereo or cell phone, yet you apparently own a computer.  I frankly don't trust anyone without the ability to listen to Grateful Dead soundboards from '68-'71, the Europe '72 tour or what is arguably their finest concert, May 8th, 1977, Barton Hall, Cornell University.  Killer Morning Dew, but I digress......

I also have a helpful suggestion.  Grow thicker skin.  You are too prickly.  You now have 4 posts and two days on this site (or do you really have more? ).  Your OP had every marking of the typical drive by spammings that occur almost daily.  This discussion would indicate that you probably aren't a spammer, and this venture of yours is real.  You will find that most of those who have engaged thus far put more of a premium on developing a community support structure that is deeper than a handful of people - hermits to use your own words - living on some island somewhere.  Everyone on CM.com who has been around for awhile has a different idea of how they want their community structured.  None of the veteran or long-time members have ever thought anything about building resiliency was easy.  4 years ago I didn't know jack shit about gardening.  Now, I don't buy a vegetable from May - November, and from November-April we eat what we've canned.  4 years ago, we didn't have a 25+ member "family" of like minded people, all within 40 minutes drive or a day hike, consisting of a dentist, a family practitioner MD, a thoracic and vascular surgeon, a Master apiarist, a Master gardener, a local landscape and gardening expert, three nuclear engineers, two Navy SEALs, a plumber and an electrical engineer.  Remind me again, why I would want to turn my back on that?

So, it's still your move....

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ao wrote: I'll try to be
ao wrote:

I'll try to be helpful.  Look somewhere else.  I agree with DTM.  The land looks sub-optimal at best.  Rocky beach, rocky land, scrubby vegetation, muddy estuary, and where's a good fresh water supply?  Plus, if you present yourself as a hermit, that means you'd probably not be easy to get along with.  Pass.

Believe me, I will look elsewhere.  But let's de-construct your helpful reply.  I will agree that the land appears sub-optimal for you and him.  Can you even conceive of the possibility that not everyone wants the same as you and him?  Can you even conceive of the possibility that farming is not the only purpose for land?  Do you understand that 135 acres of "sub-optimal land" is more than enough to grow food for 3 or 4 families?

The property line is where the photo OF the estuary was taken from.  The estuary is many miles away.  I guess you don't have a good feel for how big 135 acres is --- it isn't nearly that big!  The adjacent properties have wells with boatloads of water pressure (for big farms).  That doesn't prove this property has plenty of water, but the reasonable implication is, there is plenty of water underground.

Why are hermits difficult to get along with?  Hermits don't bother anyone.  You have that all backwards.  What hermits tend to be, by necessity, is fairly independent and self-sufficient.  Are those bad attributes according to this forum?  Because you "pass", does that mean everyone else does?  Do you speak for everyone?   Do you arbitrarily presume to impose yours upon others?

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bootstrap
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goes211 wrote:Kind of cocky
goes211 wrote:

Kind of cocky for a first time poster talking to a valued community member with over 2000 posts, don't you think?  We talking about the internet here and you are an anonymous user looking for someone to partner with, requiring a large sum of money.  You got any Nigerian connections?

Please forgive my skepticism.

Skepticism is prudent.  Drawing conclusions without evidence is not.  I admit that I didn't read his 2000 posts.  Maybe some of them contain valuable ideas and insights.  The one above did not, and certainly didn't benefit from quoting my whole message!  Clearly I am only anonymous to people who do not ask for further information or conversations.  My post has virtually no similarity to nigerian emails, and you know that.  Do you think you or others here can find a solution to sustainable, self-sufficient living... for tiny sums of money?  Frankly, part of my point is that the amount of money requires is large for ONE person, but not beyond normal home prices for roughly 3 people.  Hence the value of collaboration.  However, maybe you are vastly smarter and more energetic than me, and can establish a comfortable, sustainable lifestyle for $50K.  Good luck with that.

As for "kind of cocky"... not really.  I simply understand the difference in quality and quantity of time and effort I have invested compared to typing a couple lines of text devoid of useful content.

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Erik T.
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bootstrap wrote: I decided
bootstrap wrote:

I decided to get out of dodge (the USSA) about 5 years ago. ...after looking at tens of thousands of potential locations

Wow, that's awfully impressive. I'm on a very similar mission, have been interviewed about it on FinancialSense, and am writing a book on that very subject. Yet after more than a year on the road living out of a suitcase, I've only found time to look at about 25 specific properties.

You say "tens of thousands" of properties, so the minimum value for your claim (based on plural use of "tens") is 20,000 properties. And you've been at it for only 5 years? Wow, your work ethic is a lot better than mine, boostrap. That's 11 properties per day to view and conduct due diligence on, working 7 days a week, including holidays, 365 days a year. I'm impressed!

Dogs, AO, Goes211, you guys are being WAY too nice. The base post should have been flagged as spam and forgotten.

Erik

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Erik T. wrote: bootstrap
Erik T. wrote:
bootstrap wrote:

I decided to get out of dodge (the USSA) about 5 years ago. ...after looking at tens of thousands of potential locations

Wow, that's awfully impressive. I'm on a very similar mission, have been interviewed about it on FinancialSense, and am writing a book on that very subject. Yet after more than a year on the road living out of a suitcase, I've only found time to look at about 25 specific properties.

You say "tens of thousands" of properties, so the minimum value for your claim (based on plural use of "tens") is 20,000 properties. And you've been at it for only 5 years? Wow, your work ethic is a lot better than mine, boostrap. That's 11 properties per day to view and conduct due diligence on, working 7 days a week, including holidays, 365 days a year. I'm impressed!

Dogs, AO, Goes211, you guys are being WAY too nice. The base post should have been flagged as spam and forgotten.

Erik

Erik -

I like to play with my food before I eat it

Fascinating discussion in the Gold & Silver thread BTW.

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maceves wrote:Bootstrap, I
maceves wrote:

Bootstrap, I think you have seriously miscalculated your market here.  If you have the money to travel to do all that research, you have the money to buy your own place.  I doubt anybody  here wants to live with you and bring their chickens and goats to a luxury dive on pristine island. Sounds very fishy to me.  Most folks here would gladly give away their information in order to educate the public, which I doubt you intend to do.

Yes, we certainly have plenty of evidence that I miscalculated the kind of people to expect on this forum.  The research wasn't cheap, but you're missing the key point I tried to make in the original message.  That is, people who have $800K or more to spend can buy 10x, 25x, even 100x more quality and quantity (hectares) per dollar.  In other words, vastly more bang per buck.  You are absolutely correct, I can surely find billions of properties on this planet to purchase with my $250K life savings.  No question about that.  I can buy a 2200 square foot boring home on 1/20 to 1/4 acre of boring land in any number of towns and suburbs.  No question about that.  And this is indeed precisely what 99.99999% of humans do.  They let wealthy families or bankster-financed corporations buy these 100x better values, then subdivide them and sell them to the 99.99999% of suckers and sheeple who populate this planet at a 50x ~ 100x higher price - or worse.  And then tack on ETERNAL "association dues" to boot.

I am not willing to be one of the suckers and sheeple.  Are you?  Are ALL of you?

Frankly, I certainly do hope to find 1 or 2 individuals or couples who want to bring their chickens to the island.  Of course I do!  I also encourage people who have green thumbs to join me, because that is by-far the weakest point in my experience set.  I'm a scientist and engineer, not a farmer.  I can design and implement the solar/wind/water/internet/transportation systems, but my thumb is not green, and I have very little experience growing food.

You bet the island is "fishy".  That's obvious when you put on a snorkel mask and take a swim.  The environs are positively chock full of fishy creatures.  About 80% are tropical, which means "they look amazing and exotic, but aren't food".  But the other 20% is more than sufficient to feed... sheesh... untold thousand of people --- forever.  And we're only planning for a few to several couples on the island, so if you love seafood, you'll be happily fed forever.  Personally, I prefer chicken and veggies, but most people love those fishy creatures.

I am happy to provide the benefit of my wisdom and experience to anyone who asks.  I've contributed several large software applications to the open-source community, for example.  And I've helped many people in many ways in my areas of expertise.  The only thing I am NOT willing to do at this point is hand the results of my untold hours of searches to some rich dude/family or corporate-scumbag so they can buy and subdivide it, then RIP US OFF.  If all you care about is "rich dudes" and "rich families" and "bankster financed corporations"... then you should indeed trash me and my ideas, because I'm on the side of "intelligent, prudent small fry" --- like me.  Pretty much everything else I know, I am happy to share freely.

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bootstrap
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Dogs_In_A_Pile
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:
bootstrap wrote:

I DID address some questions about energy requirements and such in my original message.  I did not go into detail, because my first message was already rather long, and typically the first complaint about my messages is "they are too long".  I did mention that I lived for 7 years at a completely self-sufficient facility with solar-panels, wind-turbine, battery-banks, water-collection... everything except I was too lazy (as in busy with my scientific and engineering projects) to grow my own food.  Maybe it isn't obvious to you, but the "growing season" in locations 15~20 degrees from the equator is "all year long".  Honestly, I don't know enough about barter opportunities yet to comment intelligently, except that tons of very inexpensive local-grown food is available on islands not far away (within 100km).  What WE might have to barter for that is unknown (except travel between islands in our tiny little super-efficient 30~50mpg aircraft).

Definitely not a quack like a duck......but here's the problem.  Before I would pause to consider ponying up $500K you better go into excruciating detail.  FYI, the growing season here in Virginia is also year round.  And the CSAs aren't 60 miles away.  BTW, super efficient aircraft don't fly without petro-derived fuels and lubricants, so that's a problem, not a plus.

Yes, eventually fuel may become a problem.  No doubt about that.  However, what will likely happen first is a huge version of 2008, when oil dropped to $20 per barrel for a short time (because everyone was broke, and cut off from endless easy-credit).  Still, your point is correct - in the longer run (10~20 years).  One friend who will probably be a minor partner and resident has his life savings tied up in a fairly good sized yacht (50 foot), so at least we'll have a wind-driven backup.  You ask for specifics.  Okay, here is one:

http://www.pipistrel.si/plane/virus-sw/overview
http://www.pipistrel.si/plane/virus-sw/technical-data

When flown at "maximum economy speed" (about 200kph) it gets 50mpg or better.  With the extended range fuel tanks it can fly over 3000km.

bootstrap wrote:

I am quite aware of the 3 Es and the other subject matter addressed by the course.  Frankly, I've been complaining about these and related topics for decades... while nobody listened.  So "it ain't my fault" that nobody pays attention to these issues.  I HAVE.  And I lived my life accordingly.  How many others do you know who lived mostly self-sufficient lives?  How many others do you know who never purchased a TV or stereo or cell-phone or endless other non-essentials?  How many others did not generate offspring because population is a big problem?  So take your sanctimonious tone and live an intelligent life rather than bitch about mine.

Snicker.....pot, meet kettle.

bootstrap wrote:

If you people have QUESTIONS or HELPFUL SUGGESTIONS... I welcome them.  I'm just trying to accomplish something good and relevant to the subject matter of the course.  It is remarkable how virtually all mankind [in the western world] has become so aggressively anti-benevolent.  It is as if everyone wants to assure that NOBODY can organize or execute anything intelligent and responsible.  Why?  Because they haven't done so personally?  And they're jealous?  What?  I don't get it.

What I describe is NOT "too good to be true".  However, if you believe such nonsense, you'll never look for exceptional opportunties, will you?  Frankly, it makes perfect sense to me that extensive research often leads to results.  What?  You want everything good to be EASY ???  Is that how people think reality works?  I don't, so I work my butt off, and sometimes get great results.  Sorry if that offends people.  Sheesh.

Quote:

I have other questions.  Where are the properties in question and what sovereign government has jurisdiction over them?  Why do you expect the shit to hit the fan differently where your properties are?  hat happens if one or more of your collaborators wants to leave and go back to being oppressed in his or her home country?  How far to the closest level one trauma center?  What type of local government is their to interact with?  If there isn't a local government on the island, what is the governing strucure you envision for the community of you and your collaborators?  How far to the closest animal husbandry expert?  Are there venomous snakes, reptiles or insects in the area(s)?  (I fooking hate spiders!! )  What type(s) of natural disasters are typical to the area(s)?  How far to the closest power generation station?  How well are the properties "wired" to the outside world wrt internet and other communications?  You say you've never purchased a TV, stereo or cell phone, yet you apparently own a computer.  I frankly don't trust anyone without the ability to listen to Grateful Dead soundboards from '68-'71, the Europe '72 tour or what is arguably their finest concert, May 8th, 1977, Barton Hall, Cornell University.  Killer Morning Dew, but I digress......

Unfortunately, none of the properties are located on other planets, and none of them are located in antarctica, which [nominally at least] no predators DBA government claim jurisdiction.  I am happy to explain how I judge jurisdictions - at this point in history.  I don't care what the "official paperwork" of a country says (for example, their "constitution").  Why should be obvious - no predators DBA government today are constrained by their official paperwork.  What we can say is, some are less egregious than others, but pretty much ALL predators-that-be today are getting worse by the year, month, week and day at this point in history.  So I do take into account how aggressive and egregious the predators are in the jurisdictions I consider, but what is more important to me is "how poor and incompetent are they".  That's right, I want to live somewhere that the predators are like proverbial keystone cops.  The fact is, an overt totalitarian dictatorship that has almost no resources is vastly better than a "rich democracy" with huge military and endless swat teams.  However, that's not enough.  One of the most important characteristics about the places I prefer is "out of sight, out of mind" and if possible combined with "live in the [extreme] boonies".  All governments, but especially poor and incompetent governments concentrate their attention and abuse on populated areas (non-boonies), and along well-traveled routes (not "out of sight, out of mind").

The property #1 shown at http://www.sovereignones.com is extraordinarily "out of sight" and "out of the way", but isn't all that far from "civilization".  It is on the west coast of New Zealand.  Back a few years ago I was much more focused on New Zealand as a possibility.  Today, I don't completely write it off, but I suspect it is following the same general path as all hyper-predatory western jurisdictions.  On the plus side, NZ has low population density, plenty of food production (plants and animals), and may well STAY low population density when the SHTF, because I expect all major countries to LOCK THEIR DOORS.  Floating from Cuba to Florida is one thing.  Floating to NZ is altogether another thing, one that I doubt more than a few thousand will manage (not counting yacht owners).

The property #4 is within Hawaii.  Other than Alaska, which is MUCH too cold for my complete lack of cold-tolerance (due to living in Maui the past 20 years), Hawaii is the only place I would consider living in the USSA.  Frankly, I think it is insane to live in the USSA, but I was considering that property because it is on the only Hawaiian island that is still "out of sight, out of mind" (for practical purposes - as in "low population density" and "not even a single traffic light" and pretty much "zero conventional tourism".  STILL, even with all that, I would not consider this property except for that very special aircraft that gives me a way to escape no matter what laws and rules the predators enact.

I would only consider the above two options if I cannot find ways to pull off one of the other two.

I will not divulge the specific island group that includes the island I want to buy except to people who have a real, legitimate interest, and who will sign a confidentiality agreement.  I would be happy to post the specific here, except that this is such an extraordinary deal, I am reasonably certain some rich-family or bankster-financed-corporation would immediately snap it up - and later try to sell us lots for 100x what they paid, or more.  You can assume you would recognize the name of the island group, and you can assume the larger islands host a modest size but very active vacation resort activity.  This sharply contrasts with the vast majority of the islands, which are mostly populated by the "native population".  The native population are EXTREMELY friendly... unless you are a typical arrogant western asshole... but even then they are not nasty or violent (they just stay away from you).  The predators DBA government are of the keystone cop variety.

Oh, which reminds me of another consideration about jurisdiction that I am very aware of.  Always look SEPARATELY at how the predators-that-be treat "their citizes" (which they consider "their slaves") versus how they treat "foreigners", "vacationeers", and "residents" (who own homes).  Usually the treatment is VERY DIFFERENT, because predators DBA government typically DO consider "citizen" == "slave" and they typically DO consider "foreigners" (including "foreigner" residents) to be CASH COWS that spend liberally into their economy, and often provide jobs to their citizen-slaves --- which they greatly value.  Given this consideration, I rate this island group highly.  Also, it does not have property taxes - most income comes from "sales tax" applied to money tourists spend.

The final property I mention is in Chile.  I consider Chile, Peru and Argentina fairly desirable, though for somewhat different reasons.  Having spent significant time with the "native population" in the high andes, I have extremely positive vibes.  Many of these people (some in what you might call "extreme boonies") have never earned or owned a penny (or peso) in their entire lives.  These people ARE self-sufficient, and HAVE BEEN self-sufficient for tens of thousands of years.  I have enormous, enormous, enormous respect for these people.  Perhaps they can tell how much I respect them and their achievements, because no people on earth have been more friendly and helpful to me --- ever.  Note: they do NOT live what you'd consider "primitive" lives.  The environment is about as opposite from "jungle" as you can imagine... though in some places only 100 or so miles away is serious jungle (especially the further up north countries like Ecuador).  Most of the people scattered about in the area I stayed longest (in the high andes) had never been more than 50 miles from their homes.  Most of the older folks had never been more than 10 to 20 miles from their homes!  Imagine that.  You can't even imagine the delight some of these folks had when I took them on 500 mile zig-zag flights centered around their villiages!  They were like 4 year old kids at a carnival.  No, better than that.  You just can't imagine their awe and delight... not kidding.

I prefer places in the southern hemisphere, partly because they are "out of sight, out of mind", but also because of the greatly lower mixing of radiation from the japanese meltdowns.  The tendency (not perfect, but tendency) is for air and water currents to spiral around within their hemisphere and not much cross and mix.

Levels of NEARBY services vary considerable.  The tropical island is within 50km of a hospital (and high-end resorts), but you'll obviously need a catamaran, yacht or aircraft to get there.  Obviously my aircraft will get you there in minutes if you need it.  A yacht might take an hour or so.  In Hawaii you'll need to take the ferry to another island if you need more than "a small clinic or doctor".  The NZ property is about 1 hour drive on mostly empty roads from a city.  The high andes is another matter.  There you definitely need to fly with me (or call for an air ambulance) unless you can afford a few hours in a car.

All Hawaiian islands have centipedes and scorpions.  I hate both too.  But they aren't common where the property is --- and my plan has always been to build dwellings on 3~5 meter tall, large-diameter metal pipes.  Just to make sure - because I hate them too (I killed about 600 bark scorpions in one year in a house I rented many years ago in Tuscon --- never again).  No snakes or other especially nasty critters in Hawaii.  In fact, almost zero mosquitos where I lived for 20 years (Wailea), or where I found the property shown at http://www.sovereignones.org .

You can assume the semi-tropical island has few if any critters, except in the ocean.  There you'll find endless tropical fish, tropical lobsters, manta rays, sharks, etc.  Supposedly the sharks do not bother people unless they attack the sharks OR they spear fish and swim around with a bloody trail behind them rather than "bag them up" as any rational person should.  The rainfall is sufficient to collect enough water for 20 homes with a very modest collection surface (10 meters square).  This island is mostly sunny.  Other islands in the group are often cloudy and get 10x more rain.

Chile is amazingly devoid of nasty critters.  I was shocked at the almost complete lack of insects in many parts of the country.  On one 15 day excursion I checked the front of the 4wd I rented and drove over 4000 miles --- and found a grand total of ZERO insects smashed on the front bumper or hood.  I've never seen anything like that anywhere before.

NZ is also mostly devoid of nasty critters.  There are a couple slightly poisonous spiders, but they are small and exceedingly rare.  No snakes.

I have NO IDEA how far to animal husbandry types.  As I revealed several times already, plants and animals (for food) are NOT my specialties.  Hopefully I find an individual with that kind of experience (and some cash to invest).  BTW, when I say "invest", I mean that in the same sense as "invest in the house/garden you buy and live in".  Though my plan is to subdivide and sell some lots on the east side of the island in order to pay off the mortgage required to buy the island, what I'm looking for right now is a partner to own the entire shebang with me from the start, and share in the benefits (a fabulous, self-sufficient, sustainable place to live).  Even the "poor suckers" who end up buying the subdivided lots (at a much lower price than much less fabulous properties in this island group) will only bring the total money invested up to the total required to buy the island, install the self-sufficient infrastructure, and make the island a great place to live.  In other words, NONE OF US will end up with any more money than we started.  We will end up with an island to enjoy and live on.  So even the most crass and commercial aspect of this project is NOT to make money for those of us who "make this happen".  The best we can hope for is to break even... which is fine with me, and needs to be fine with anyone who wants to help me achieve this plan.

Quote:

I also have a helpful suggestion.  Grow thicker skin.  You are too prickly.

  Okay.  I'll try.

Quote:

You now have 4 posts and two days on this site (or do you really have more? ).  Your OP had every marking of the typical drive by spammings that occur almost daily.  This discussion would indicate that you probably aren't a spammer, and this venture of yours is real.  You will find that most of those who have engaged thus far put more of a premium on developing a community support structure that is deeper than a handful of people - hermits to use your own words - living on some island somewhere.  Everyone on CM.com who has been around for awhile has a different idea of how they want their community structured.  None of the veteran or long-time members have ever thought anything about building resiliency was easy.  4 years ago I didn't know jack shit about gardening.  Now, I don't buy a vegetable from May - November, and from November-April we eat what we've canned.  4 years ago, we didn't have a 25+ member "family" of like minded people, all within 40 minutes drive or a day hike, consisting of a dentist, a family practitioner MD, a thoracic and vascular surgeon, a Master apiarist, a Master gardener, a local landscape and gardening expert, three nuclear engineers, two Navy SEALs, a plumber and an electrical engineer.  Remind me again, why I would want to turn my back on that?

So, it's still your move....

ALL of that is fine.  In fact, I find it utterly, totally, completely natural that people prefer different approaches... and results.  I guess that makes me more of an individualist than most people here.  So be it.  I am far more skeptical of large-scale organizations and large-scale implementations than most people.  As we can see, most people are just fine with "organizations" as big as "governments".  In fact, almost nobody is smart enough to realize that all organizations are FICTIONS, and in fact do not exist.  What exists is "predators DBA government" and "predators DBA corporations" and "predators DBA central banks" and "predators DBA all-sorts-of-organizations".  The predators exist.  The organizations are only names inside human heads.  Yet adults are just as driven by fictions like "government" as kids are driven by fictions like "SantaClaus".

Where I do think larger-scale organization can work is in the information realm --- in places like a specific-purpose forum.  This kind of collaboration can be quite effective, even for hermits living on a remote island --- as long as they have an internet connection (which we will).  Over the years I have come to know a few people with serious talent.  I have a friend in barren south-eastern arizona who grows amazing quantities of totally natural, organic food on a few acres.  He feeds his family and has lots left over to supply neighbors.  I don't think he's going to join us, but he will remain a great source of information (a better source of information for someone who already has more experience than me).

Should you turn your back on your sources?  Hell no!  But have you thought through the distinction I just made?  It is quite possible to have a rich, large, talented INFORMATION community to support dozens, hundreds, thousands or millions of small PHYSICAL implementations?  To me, it seems both practical and wise for self-sufficiency nuts to keep their physical endeavors SMALL, but be part of a huge network of people sharing information.  Make sense?

We can agree to disagree about one thing --- how important is "being small and remote".  Maybe you'll be okay in the years to come, and people like me did not need to be small-scale and remote.  Let's all hope that's true, because then we will all do just fine.  However, I am less optimistic, especially for people within the USSA and other increasingly hyper-aggressive, hyper-predatory and "currently fiat-rich" states.  My decision for us was, "we must leave" --- and so we did ~2 years ago.  I was an advocate for honesty, liberty and individualism for a long time, so I'm probably already on too many lists of too many predators for voicing facts they consider unacceptable.  You can be sure "liberty advocates" of all variations will be the first to play the role the jews played in nazi-germany.  Already the government tells their enforcement and terrorist arms that having a RonPaul bumper sticker or believing in the constitution (their supposed core document) makes you a likely terrorist.  Good luck for everyone who stays in the USSA.  It didn't work out so well for individuals thought to be in unfavored groups in fascist germany, and my guess is, it won't work out very well in fascist USSA either.  All I can say is "good luck to you", and "I'm not taking the risk".

I hope my answers are helpful.

bootstrap's picture
bootstrap
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 24 2012
Posts: 10
Erik T. wrote:bootstrap
Erik T. wrote:
bootstrap wrote:

I decided to get out of dodge (the USSA) about 5 years ago. ...after looking at tens of thousands of potential locations

Wow, that's awfully impressive. I'm on a very similar mission, have been interviewed about it on FinancialSense, and am writing a book on that very subject. Yet after more than a year on the road living out of a suitcase, I've only found time to look at about 25 specific properties.

You say "tens of thousands" of properties, so the minimum value for your claim (based on plural use of "tens") is 20,000 properties. And you've been at it for only 5 years? Wow, your work ethic is a lot better than mine, boostrap. That's 11 properties per day to view and conduct due diligence on, working 7 days a week, including holidays, 365 days a year. I'm impressed!

Dogs, AO, Goes211, you guys are being WAY too nice. The base post should have been flagged as spam and forgotten.

Erik

I could have been clearer.  That "tens of thousands" includes searches through innumerable international real-estate web-sites.  I am rather certain you also weed out "no way" properties without visiting them personally.  I assume we can agree on that.  I apologize for my lack of verbal precision if you actually thought I was claiming to have personally visited tens of thousands of specific properties!  Frankly, I find it difficult to believe you really took my comment to mean I "personally visited" all those properties, but for sake of civility, let's assume you were and call your misunderstanding my mistake - my lack of verbal precision.  Fair enough?

I've been at this for more than 5 years, but not with nearly the same degree of focus.

I have personally visited slightly more than 25 properties, but they were in less than 25 "regions of the globe" (in some regions I looked at more than one property).  So almost certainly you've been looking more intensively than I have, though maybe for 5x fewer years.

When will your book be out.  I'll buy one.  How similar is your target property to what I'm looking for?  Have you also noticed the enormous increase in "value per dollar" when looking at properties over roughly $800K in price?  Can you relay any tips (or properties, or locations) to me based upon what I'm looking for.  If you read all my replies in this thread, you'll have a pretty good idea what I'm looking for.

earthwise's picture
earthwise
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2009
Posts: 848
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

 

Erik -

I like to play with my food before I eat it

 

BWAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA!!!!!

ROFLMAO!!!

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
sheeples
bootstrap wrote:

I am not willing to be one of the suckers and sheeple.  Are you?  Are ALL of you?

There's half your problem......  you've been on this site for what, less than a week, couldn't possibly have taken the time to read the thousands of posts we've put up between us to find out what sort of people we are, and here you are assuming we're all sheeples...

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Damnthematrix
Damnthematrix wrote:
bootstrap wrote:

I am not willing to be one of the suckers and sheeple.  Are you?  Are ALL of you?

There's half your problem......  you've been on this site for what, less than a week, couldn't possibly have taken the time to read the thousands of posts we've put up between us to find out what sort of people we are, and here you are assuming we're all sheeples...

Well earthwise did go "Baaaaaa" in the previous post...........

Wait.....sorry, never mind. 

earthwise's picture
earthwise
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2009
Posts: 848
Who's the sucker?

 

bootstrap wrote:

I am not willing to be one of the suckers and sheeple. Are you? Are ALL of you?

Apparently, not  ALL.  Look! You've got four prospects already. And you've only been pestering us for three days. Not b-a-a-a-a-d. Not b-a-a-a-a-d at all. What a salesman!!

 

(Is it me or are they starting to form a conga line? Wow! Who knew that New Zealand could be more exciting than Ft. Lauderdale on spring break.)

 

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
earthwise
earthwise wrote:

 

bootstrap wrote:

I am not willing to be one of the suckers and sheeple. Are you? Are ALL of you?

Apparently, not  ALL.  Look! You've got four prospects already. And you've only been pestering us for three days. Not b-a-a-a-a-d. Not b-a-a-a-a-d at all. What a salesman!!

 

(Is it me or are they starting to form a conga line? Wow! Who knew that New Zealand could be more exciting than Ft. Lauderdale on spring break.)

Huh?

What part of Ft Lauderdale did YOU go to for Spring Break?????

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Give the Guy a Break

bootstrap could have done better in introducing himself to this community and presenting his opportunities. For example, he might have taken the time to get to know regular members here by an introductory post relating only to the 3Es. First establishing his bona fides in such a manner would probably have made a later post of this type more acceptable to people here. Or, he might have considered posting on one of the many threads here about relocating, instead.

Still, I didn't think his original post seemed like spam; I was skeptical, of course, but also curious. I recall PMs with Davos and others about finding a sovereign island somewhere. The idea may be impractical for some, but it is nonetheless alluring to many.

Furthermore, bootstrap has tried to respond to the many critiques and questions thrown his way; and done so with fairly good humor, it seems to me. Although bootstrap perhaps made a misstep in his first post here, could we not find a way to be more welcoming while still maintaining our skepticism?

FWIW...

bootstrap's picture
bootstrap
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 24 2012
Posts: 10
Damnthematrix
Damnthematrix wrote:
bootstrap wrote:

I am not willing to be one of the suckers and sheeple.  Are you?  Are ALL of you?

There's half your problem......  you've been on this site for what, less than a week, couldn't possibly have taken the time to read the thousands of posts we've put up between us to find out what sort of people we are, and here you are assuming we're all sheeples...

I am really sorry, but can you tell the difference between questions and assertions?

Locavorous's picture
Locavorous
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2010
Posts: 26
I agree with CCPetersMD

You guys who jumped on Bootstraps back embarrass this community. It sure looks like you're trying to be the cool kids giving the new kid grief because he's wearing the wrong loafers. It all smacks of anti-intellectual bias and 'inner circle' protectionism, ESPECIALLY when you rely on post counting and join dates.

Granted, Bootstrap could've come in a bit more humble, which is never out of place, but to further this conversation in public with this tone doesn't do CM any favors, nor does it promote new postings from new members if they perceive this is the greeting party that awaits.

Please allow your ego to take a back burner, and ask relevant questions that can illuminate your concerns while either supporting Bootstraps request, or help to clarify the relevance of his ask based on our discussions of the 3Es.

Failing that, if you can't say anything nice, refrain from hitting Submit.

Bootstraps, good luck. Even though some of your comments about your fiscal state compared to others hit below my belt, the truth hurts, and so I'm not a viable candidate for your search. Though I know of several people who meet your criteria, are actively looking in Central America and will make a decision this calendar year, I believe some of the way you characterize yourself and your journey would turn them off.

Stay on the High Road, gentlefolk. TS hasn't HTF yet.

 

goes211's picture
goes211
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 1114
Embarrass this community? Not so fast...

Locavorous,

From your join date and low post count I assume you have been lurking around here for a while.  Also, because the last post on this thread ( before yours ) was 2 - 3 weeks ago, I am going to assume you don't come here and keep up daily.  If you are not here often, maybe you are unaware of how much spam gets posted on a daily basis.  I am sure that many infrequent CM.com visitors are unaware of the problem because the moderators do such a good job cleaning up the mess, that there is really no traces left.  I know I personally have marked 100's of messages as spam and watched them get removed within a few hours, and I am by no means alone.

Let me tell you that a first post that is trying to sell something that also occurs on the joined date, has a near 100% correlation to being done by a spammer.  I came very close to marking Bootstrap's first message as spam when I saw it, but it did seem different than the usual spiel, so I left it alone.  However, when his second post was disrespectful, it earned a response.  To Bootstrap's credit, he did hang around and respond to some of the questions that members had.  This is not something that a regular spammer does, so I no longer think he is a spammer. 

One thing all new posters need to keep in mind is: "You never get a second chance to make a first impression."

Locavorous's picture
Locavorous
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2010
Posts: 26
Fair enough!

Your assessment of my involvement is a good one. I look at the Daily Digest, well, daily. And I skim the forums, usually only reading homestead related topics, though I admit to following XrayMike's posts closer. I still protest those metrics (join date/post count) as being insular.

And I don't consider myself a 'lurker', but a 'learner' :)

I didn't know about the spam problem and am surprised at the scale. Thank you for protecting my experience.

Still, if the goal of some responders was to create a gauntlet for new posters to survive just to prove whether or not the OP was spam, and running it includes absorbing ad hominems, and thus stem the flow of more spam, then this is not the community I thought it was. I certainly haven't witnessed other similar treatment, but it sounds like that may be because of my low hours of involvement.

The 3Es resonate with me. I've changed my life accordingly, and I proselytize the Crash Course. I see people all over the map, literally and figuratively discussing reaction and action plans, and some are more believable than others. I'm not yet ready to narrow my window of perception because it 'sounds like a duck', and I was very surprised to see some familiar names lash out. I have a lot to contribute because of my last 5 years homesteading, but I'm now more shy than ever to share because I see a chink in the armor of trust I thought this community engendered.

This is all a learning moment, in a time when all is either breaking through or breaking down.

 

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