Protect and Defend

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V's picture
V
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Protect and Defend

In light of the thread License to Kill., I thought it might be fruitful to examine our Constitution from the perspective of those  who have sworn an oath to Protect and Defend it.

It seems clear to me that few if any of our elected officials take the oath seriously as day after day they pass laws which undermine the very words we are to govern ourselves with.

I am aware that there are many on this site who have sworn this oath. Many ex military types who when they entered the service obviously were thinking they would be protecting and defending against foreign enemies  such as Vietnamese, Panamanians, Grenadans, Bosnians, Afghanis, Iraqis etc. However I believe the oath says " foreign and domestic". this being the case I wonder what those who have sworn the oath are doing to protect and defend the  Constitution against enemies of the domestic persuasion.

As a disclaimer I have not sworn the oath so I have no "dog in the fight" so to speak but I am genuinely curious as to the approach anyone might be taking or suggesting.

V

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On Our Own
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Re: Protect and Defend

The problem, and a serious one it is, comes when those who have sworn this oath feel compelled to uphold it; yet have vastly different idas as to what they are upholding and what they are defending it against.

The numbers of people who are joining militias,  those who have lent their services to groups like Xe (I do not see them as a simple corporation,  I see them as a threat.), these numbers are concerning for me.  I fear that many of us will be forced to choose.  And it will not only be personal,  these choices will have profound civic implications.   Many of my family members are past members or are still in one branch or another and they differ sharply on what their role is and should be.

Our union is fragile and I worry for it.

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Re: Protect and Defend

V, some soldiers do indeed take that domestic part of their oath seriously and that's why the Homeland MIAC document named them as potential "terrorists."  If/when we reach the tipping point, they will send the praetorian guard after those types of soldiers.  But most soldiers just do what they're told.  As we saw in Katrina they'll have no problem violating the Constitution.  The chaos will be too intense.  And most officers, sorry to say as I used to be one, are career-oriented professionals, which is code for "loyally serve the top of the hierarchy and try to impress them."  Any officer who shows a serious independent streak loyal to the Constitution is already weeded out, or conveniently offshore busy fighting foreign wars...that's how Hitler kept Rommel from taking over.  Or they're in things like ROTC assignments right now with no command authority, no troops, no arms so they aren't a threat...I know 3 of them personally.  The timing to me is very interesting that the real solid officers that happen to be needed right now are being wasted on college campuses or run ragged in deserts on the other side of the world.

 

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Re: Protect and Defend

We know that politicians are power hungry liars, that is the only way to succeed at their sick game. Once you join the military or the police you have comitted yourself to the surrender of your moral license to these vermin. I understand that most do so when they are too young to understand the consequences, but to surrender your right to moral judgement to the scum who run governments... didn't your mother teach you not to lie, not to initiate violence.

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Re: Protect and Defend

Wow Sam.  Judgemental much?  This would be the point of the argument really,  do you serve the government or the ideal the government was supposed to uphold?  Again, there are many methodologies to that service.  Since most who sign do so in an honest desire to serve their fellow citizens, which they feel it is their moral duty to do,  you are mistaking the concept of a moral clarity that never existed.  It still does not exist.

 

BTW,  when some one who does not have any moral clarity decides they want your belongings or to harm your family I suspect you will profoundly wish for those who wear that badge to stand in front of you and take the violence that comes on your behalf.  You will be counting on their moral clarity to get them to take that bullet.

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Re: Protect and Defend

I can't help but to add that the idea that we have gotten rid of the draft is one of our greater fallacies.  I do not say this to defend my own decisions,  I am comfortable with them,  but if you look at the choices that are available for many people at the bottom rungs of our society,  you see what we have is really a conscripted military.

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Re: Protect and Defend

Yes I absolutely am judgemental. Our government has spent much of the last one hundred and twenty years murdering innocent people. This would not be possible except for the surrender of moral authority to them. As to your point about someone wanting to take what is mine or harm my family, most of those willing to do those things are government agents or trained by governments. The exception would be those who have been so damaged by the actions of our government that they will take any action to get retribution.

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Re: Protect and Defend

Oh, and as far as protecting me and mine, get the hell out of the way so I dont have to worry about hitting the wrong people.

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Re: Protect and Defend

In an effort to get this back on track. WHAT THE HELL ABOUT THE OATH

Ah now I feel much better. I am interested in hearing how anyone who has sworn the oath is protecting and defending the constitution, other than growing vegetables and continuing to invest in the manipulated financial markets.

I was broadly castigated for my comments here about the military. I have not had one of those people yet respond to this question.

i await breathlessly

Of course I am not optimistic based on past results.

V

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Re: Protect and Defend

I thought I was "one of those people" and I tried to answer your question.  did I miss it?

The domestic part of the oath is not operative.  Not possible for anyone to do anything about it.  The real soldiers who might believe that part of their oath are in regular army units well away from the power centers.  The power folks in DC have praetorian guard forces protecting them from everyone, including a soldier who tries to support his oath.  The entire command apparatus abdicated that part of the oath LONG AGO in never doing anything about the domestic enemies we've had throughout the 20th century, esp for the last 20 years.  I guarantee there are tons of officers who had a really good sense of what happened to JFK, RFK, MLK and they did nothing about that.  They just let the politicians cover it up.  I'm sure those at the top knew Tonkin incident was a fraud, and they did nothing.  I guarantee there are officers who know about the financial powers that have taken over and they do nothing about that.  I'm sure there are some that see what's really happening with the Trilateral Commission and Clinton Global Initiative specifically preparing for the end of an autonomous, powerful US, and they do nothing about that.  They have to see that we have been soldout to Asia and they do nothing.  etc etc etc.

They'll also break the oath in terms of turning on the American people.  They broke it in building the NORTHCOM infrastructure.  I broke it when I was doing JTF-6 missions on US soil.  It was a beta test to see if officers would go along with Harvard/Yale politicians telling them to police in the US.  I had no idea.  In my head was "this is to stop drugs, yeah we gotta do it, plus it's a fun mission!"  That will be in the heads of everyone as they're being told to stop the chaos in the US post-crash or post-terror-attack.  Just look at Katrina.

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Re: Protect and Defend

I can still remember the day I was sworn into the military, the immense pride at boot camp graduation, having my first set of NCO stripes sewn on, the responsibility of looking out for more than just my own arse and helping young men evolve into well adjusted soldiers. The military was my family.  One of the first things we learned about military justice that stuck with me my entire length of service and beyond was that of obeying a 'lawful' order, and the tremendous clarify and conviction one must have to actually disobey a direct order - especially in the field.  No doubt, dealing with this subject is still in the forefront of most soldier's minds even as they manuever through the rice paddy's, deserts, mountains, seas and jungles of today. It is what sets an American soldier apart from any other in the world. Making the call to disobey is huge, not making it can be even bigger.  It is the most responsible decision a soldier may ever have to make in his career. 

Back then I never would have dreamed of having this discussion so many years later. But once the oath is sworn to defend the Constitution the responsibility never diminishes, for I still live in, love, and respect this country and the ideals upon which it was founded.  Yet not a day has gone by in the past ten years or more where I have not had to look at myself in the mirror and guage whether my country has willingly chosen to change and move away from what it was, is something I should still be responsible to.  All things naturally evolve on this earth, so am I right in standing in the way of what the general population has allowed America to turn into?  Even if the direction this country is heading is due to laziness, corruption, deceit, lies, and incompetence?  As sickening as it may sound, has this country evolved to a point where the Constitution, our freedoms, our liberties, are no longer relevant as they seem to be valued only by a minority that sees the importance of them?  My take on it is that the oath to defend remains valid until death, and that the Constitution precides over America until America exists no more.

I hope to hell every young person taking the oath and wearing the uniform can understand that everything they ever hope to be in this world and beyond depends upon them shouldering the ultimate responsibility in honoring their word, for it is only America that provides them the right to make that decision to do so.

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Re: Protect and Defend

Thank you kaman. I hope there are many as honorable as you.

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Re: Protect and Defend

I don't want to kill hope or be pessimistic, just realistic.  All the top generals and some key colonels are in CFR.  The system has been coopted at the top.  Those officers sworn to "protect and defend the constitution" have apparently adopted an oath to "imperially reshape and integrate the world."  I don't see a feasible way for a few honorable NCOs to do anything about that.  After all, if they're so strongly dedicated to truly defending some sense of original constitutionality, would they still be in the service working for the "domestic enemies?"  They may not shoot Americans if it gets to that point, but they also won't take out the domestic enemies.

I don't watch news, so there may be more, but I've only seen 1 report of a Marine NCO who refused to go back to Iraq because his soul knew his troops were just being used to kill poor brown people according to the desires of our rich people.  He said he'd be willing to go to prison if he had to.  Otherwise, I see everyone just doing what they're told. 

 

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Re: Protect and Defend

Sam,

Your vitriolic hyperbole is not a great way of drawing them out.
I think Kaman ressurected a thread you almost killed.

I swore the oath, and anyone who cares to look can see I post under my name, and state clearly my intentions and convictions.

Like Kaman, I have moments of pride and honor, have a sense of loyalty to the fraternity and further believe many of us are true to the values of our nation before those of our politicians.
But as anything, figures lie and liars figure. The "warriors" are thinkers, contrary to common belief, and to those who fear Xe or Militia groups - rest assured they will be the least of your problem.

Cheers,

Aaron

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Re: Protect and Defend

Why does "protect and defend" necessarily imply violence?  Is it possible to defend the Constitution (or anything else for that matter) without violence? 

Just wondering.

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Re: Protect and Defend

First off, one has to know what one is protecting and defending. I believe the document is called "The Constitution". Next, one might have to read the document and then understand it, it's history, it's evolution. Lastly, one must hold up the Constitution as a "plumb line" or "benchmark" against that which he or she is measuring. This is not an easy task and much thought must be taken, questions asked and answered because it is in knowing the path to take that one can swift and sure.

One must ask and answer these questions and be prepared to pay the price to defend it, whether in the voting booth, your front steps, in the streets or in the minds of your fellow Americans. I pray we all can be thoughtful, prayerful, courageous, motivated by conviction, and prepared to give no more or no less than the founders of this great Republic.

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Re: Protect and Defend

These are times for truth, not diplomacy. The government of the United States is guilty of terrible crimes. Those crimes were carried out by people who "took the oath" and didnt have the courage to live up to it. If that offends you then I guess you will have to be offended.

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Re: Protect and Defend

From the article :  http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/02/07

Just Gimme Some Truth

by David Michael Green

* "America is in fiscal crisis right now, and the president's current solution is to pretend to seriously cut spending, and to locate all those cuts in the domain of domestic spending, just as some folks argued long ago was the real conspiracy behind Reagan's massive deficits. What astonishes me almost daily is that there is not a single serious actor in American politics who is talking about slashing ‘defense' spending. The United States today drops twice what the entire rest of the world combined spends on their militaries, and there is not a single state actor anywhere in the world who does or could threaten us. There is no Nazi Germany or expansionary Soviet Union. And yet we spend like we're in a great power death match, despite the fact that we are bleeding red ink in order to do so. Couldn't somebody speak honestly about this, especially since our finances are in a meltdown, or must we all continue to tip-toe around the drunkard in the family, pretending not to notice all the damage?"

Any thoughts?  Why are we spending trillions to fight a handful of "terrorists"?  Just what are we "defending"?

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Re: Protect and Defend

we are not defending.  when I was at the academy, Richard Armitage told a group of us "the US is transitioning into the role of global beat cop."   20 years later we are in 75% of all the countries in the world.  all it takes is the right picture on CNN of a brown guy and we takeover another country so the beat cop can get that neighborhood block under control.  it's obvious we're being used as the police arm of those who want the world to be 1 corporate system.

and our government publicly says it can assassinate us too.  what a disgrace.  the US killed America.

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Re: Protect and Defend

As Achilles said to Agamemnon in the movie 'Troy", "Imagine a king who fights his own battles, wouldn't that be a sight?"

If people didn't join the armed forces there would be no one to fight the useless wars we seem to constantly be having throughout our history. People that need a leader are the problem, I only need someone who represents the way in which I want to live to be in a position to affect that outcome.

When I joined the Navy and took the oath to the constitution I was not given a copy of it to read, nor was I given any assignments in public school to read it and understand it's implications, so I essentially took a meaningless oath. The armed forces including the police should have to be educated in the meaning of the constitution before they take an oath to it.

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Re: Protect and Defend

Greg 

" When I joined the Navy and took the oath to the constitution I was not given a copy of it to read, nor was I given any assignments in public school to read it and understand it's implications, so I essentially took a meaningless oath. "

That is a stunning admission on your part. Thank you. I can only hope others will see the light  and join Oath Keepers

V

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Re: Protect and Defend

the solution isn't Oath Keepers.  it is to resign.  how can one keep an oath in an organization whose purpose and mission now violates it?

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Re: Protect and Defend

"the solution isn't Oath Keepers.  it is to resign.  how can one keep an oath in an organization whose purpose and mission now violates it?"

Not sure what you mean by this?

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Re: Protect and Defend

Greg:

I think he means resign your commision.

 

Sam:

I take it you never swore the oath, so you are free to do something to stop these injustices.  I guess sitting at your keyboard is doing something.

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Re: Protect and Defend

Greg, DOD is enacting the plans of Brzezinski, Kissinger, Armitage, etc. to be the global beat cop and bring about 1 corporate system.  It serves at the whim of Harvard/Yale grads who have never limited themselves to the constitution.  Or even if people somehow don't believe that, DOD is killing endless people on the other side of the world for CIA fabrications and has built NORTHCOM in order to clamp down on the US.  Both of these fundamentally violate the spirit of the constitution.  We're in 75% of the countries in the world...we control far more territory than King George III, the guy we thought was too controlling, ever dreamed of. 

How can someone honor the constitutional oath while working for that organization?

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Re: Protect and Defend

Been out since 1990, but I still stand by the constitution and most importantly individual rights.

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Re: Protect and Defend

"How can someone honor the constitutional oath while working for that organization?"

The idea behind Oathkeeepers is to say no when given an unconstitutional order, that's what I think is important to maintain a free society even though we are really not free.

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Re: Protect and Defend

awesome.  I've been out since 97 and I too stand by the constitution and individual rights.  I'm saying the only way for current soldiers to stand by the constitution is to resign. if they stay in, they will inevitably be tasked to engage in unconstitutional operations. 

maybe I'm not communicating well.  I wasn't criticizing you at all, though I admit I may be offending a lot of people deeply.  I think it is time to start the national dialogue we had in the 60's.  of course the people who led that dialogue were assassinated, so it's going to be hard to find a speaker today.

this will put me on everyone's bad side, but here goes:

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Re: Protect and Defend

Strabes,

Telling the truth will never put you on my bad side.

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Re: Protect and Defend

DocMins, I understand that I seem confrontational here, I see injustice and evil being done by the country that I was taught was good and worthy. This disturbs me. I spend much of my life confronting the carless and the true believers over the actions of the Government. I do not believe that electoral politics will ever produce freedom, quite the opposite. I am not a soldier, I am not wealthy, what I have done is withdraw my intellectual support and work life from those who would use it for evil. I grow lettuce now for the local market, I used to provide IT services for a major corporation, (who I suspect you would recognize) who I felt were doing evil. I sacrificed my career and my income.

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Re: Protect and Defend

As much as I would hate for it to come to that, I suppose that I would stand as those other farmers did at Lexington, and Concord.

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