Political Bias

36 posts / 0 new
Last post
SAF's picture
SAF
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 17 2009
Posts: 1
Political Bias

I think this series is well done and teaches important concepts.  If your goal is to educate you should make it more politically neutral.  In this chapter you complain about two wars plus tax cuts.  A not too subtle shot at Republicans.  If indeed you believe all economic problems are due to Republicans this point of view will alienate a large portion of the population.

 Your call. 

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias
Quote:

If your goal is to educate you should make it more politically neutral.  In this chapter you complain about two wars plus tax cuts.  A not too subtle shot at Republicans.

Whoa... I'm won't presume to defend Chris, but as a conservative, and servicemen, it should be noted that historically Republicans have been anti-war for it's outrageous cost in both finances and lives.

Intelligent use of resources is not a dramatic semantic leap from "conservative", and I would submit that it's the Republicans who might want to rethink their strategy of pandering to a union of church and state, and prolonged interventionism on a global level. Their proposterous platform of preventing gay marriage, anti-abortion and prolonged war is going to be a death sentance; as these are all ideas that prevent individual liberty and apply ideals through force.

Personally, I find homosexuality and aboritions in conflict with my beliefs, but it is absolutely not my place to tell anyone else how to live.

Republicans have sold out conservatives. As conservatives, we need to re-orient the party that best represents us, before they have seperated themselves entirely from the conservative principles of financial responsibility, civil liberty and no-aggression.

Sorry if I've gotten a little "off topic", but this is something that should be interrogated by strong conservative minds before the next election. The "Neo-Cons" are facists who simply want to control through fear and oppression.

Cheers!

castlewp's picture
castlewp
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 7 2008
Posts: 304
Re: Political Bias

The big wealthy business interests are what you should be concerned about not the politics.  The politicians are irrelevant and are there to give you the idea that you have the freedom of choice, You don't.  It wasn't the republicans or democrats who put us in the situation.  It was the "real owners" of this country.

Don't get caught up in this two party paradigm we live in.  It's all an illusion.  They are two sides of the same coin.  

I totally understand having your moral believes and values, but don't think for a minute that these guys in Washington give a *#$$% about you or what party you are affiliated with.

I'm certainly not speaking for Chris, buy one thing I never got was a political agenda on this site.  I see him looking at the big picture here.  

Sorry for the rant 

 

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3159
Re: Political Bias

I have been impressed by Chris's lack of political bias, at least in the CC.  He is very careful not to take political stances, as they would get in the way of his message.  You don't have to be a liberal/progressive to conclude that Iraq has been disastrous and that Afghanistan has suffered because of this administration's obsession with removing Sadam.  You don't have to be a progressive/liberal to find this presidency the worst in history.

Besides, those who call themselves conservative these days are not conservative as I grew up to understand the term.  Aaron is absolutely right that today's Republicans (at least the neocons) have abandoned conservative principles in favor of a sound bite strategy that has finally proved disastrous for the party.  As a lifelong progressive, I would really like to see the Republican party return to its conservative roots because we need a principled Republican party to productively work as the loyal opposition with the Obama administration and Democratic Congress in dealing with the tough times we are entering.  We have no time for political rancor. 

Stan Robertson's picture
Stan Robertson
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 7 2008
Posts: 652
Re: Political Bias

As I recall the Crash Course, Chris had earlier made the point that wars are inflationary by virtue of the destruction of the products produced. Two wars plus tax cuts are facts, not partisan points. The truth isn't partisan. I don't see why Republicans should be offended by the truth, but I could understand a few feelings of guilt.

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5729
Re: Political Bias

By my recollection, both Democrats and Republicans voted overwhelmingly for the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war resolution.

And the tax cuts passed with a majority as well.

So it would not make sense for me to inject anything partisan here and I meant nothing by my statements about cutting taxes and conducting wars beyond the fact that those were fiscally reckless actions.  Assigning blame beyond that, especially in a partisan fashion, would be ineffective, divisive, and therefore counterproductive to the goals of this site. 

Mike Pilat's picture
Mike Pilat
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 929
Re: Political Bias
castlewp wrote:

Don't get caught up in this two party paradigm we live in.  It's all an illusion.  They are two sides of the same coin. 

This is absolutely right. We now have the supposedly conservative republican party hijacked by Neo-Cons which represent anything but conservative values. Everything is upside as each individual politician simply aligns him or herself with whichever group or political party is likely to give them the most gain.

Interestingly enough, as long as the media and the donkeys and elephants can keep us in the 2 party mindset, the more both parties benefit. Frankly, I think this issue goes beyond political parties and gets into the very structure of the government. I don't see any way possible that a centralized group of lawmakers can make laws that actually benefit or appeal to a significant percentage of the entire nation. In my opinion the Federal Government's power needs to be greatly curtailed and the states, counties, and municipalities need to be re-empowered. This has nothing to do with which party is in power and everything to do with the location and scope of the power base.

Just my 2 cents.

Mike

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias
Quote:

By my recollection, both Democrats and Republicans voted overwhelmingly for the Afghanistan war and the Iraq war resolution.

And the tax cuts passed with a majority as well.

And the Bailout Money.
*wince*

Mike Pilat's picture
Mike Pilat
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 929
Re: Political Bias

Exactly. How much "choice" was there in this past election when both of the mainstream candidates voted in favor of bailing out the banksters. I hope Americans feel a little betrayed by this because they should, especially as the overwhelming majority of Joe Sixpacks vehemently opposed the bailouts.

Arthur Vibert's picture
Arthur Vibert
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: May 16 2008
Posts: 116
Re: Political Bias

This is about survival and is much bigger than Republicans vs Democrats, Right vs Left, Conservatives vs Liberals. Getting mired in 2 party politics is to lose sight of what really matters - you, your family, your community. I lost my last hope in the "system" when I, and most of the people in my district, implored our Congresswoman to vote against the "bailout." She knuckled under, just like most of them did. Whatever it is they are doing now or were doing before in Washington, it does not benefit any of us, except by accident. So let's leave that behind and focus on the real issues.

Arthur

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias

Hey Arthur,

I think you touched on the most important element of this discussion;

Focus on *local* issues, and remove the federal government from the local processes.
I say issues, because politics are simply a deceptive pratice by nature. Issues can be solved without partisanship.

Partisanship only really matters on a federal level, and only serves as a distraction from the real issues effecting people locally. That said, it does serve *some* purpose, as it keeps the opposite party in check, and prevents change from occuring too rapidly.

Well said!

Cheers,

Aaron

jrf29's picture
jrf29
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 18 2008
Posts: 453
Re: Political Bias
Aaron Moyer wrote:

Focus on *local* issues, and remove the federal government from the local processes.
I say issues, because politics are simply a deceptive pratice by nature. Issues can be solved without partisanship. 

Aaron, I think that's an excellent point.  Come to think of it, where I live I cannot recall party politics ever entering into any practical decision at the local level.  And only rarely at the state level. 

I suppose that when speaking to extremely large groups of people, things must be couched in political and ideological generalities.  This appeal to ideology allows the large group to be led into endorsing courses of action which would otherwise be illogical.  But when smaller groups of people get down to actually solving their own problems at the local and state levels, the grand posturing of the national political parties turns out to be mostly useless.

Arthur Vibert's picture
Arthur Vibert
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: May 16 2008
Posts: 116
Re: Political Bias

More and more I'm becoming convinced that local is what truly matters. It's easy to become overwhelmed by the vastness of some of the problems we face, but if we all work to address them on a local level we'll actually get things done. Even on this site when we discuss issues that are global or national in scope we can get some serious disagreement, but it seems we all agree that working locally makes sense.

I think there's a lesson to be learned there.

Arthur 

RussB's picture
RussB
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 9 2008
Posts: 101
Re: Political Bias

I long ago gave up on the possibility of any constructive federal action on the predicaments we face, so I agree that most political lobbying should engage at the local or maybe state level.

The main exception is, we must remain vigilant on civil liberties, since while the federal government's not likely to ever help those who are trying to prepare, it can certainly harm us, so the (bipartisan) assault on civil liberties remains a critical federal issue.

kiwixport's picture
kiwixport
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 18 2008
Posts: 10
Re: Political Bias

Hello,

The crash course is one of the most comprehensive studies on the subject that I have come across and well put togeather.

I wonder though can you view the 3 Es in isolation to politics both Domestic and Geo Political????

Will the 3 Es be subordinated to Geo politics or will the Politics be subordinated to the 3 Es????

When you discuss war and taxes in a financial context can you ignore the political, military and Geo Strategic considerations, or will these ultimately be subordinated to the 3Es as well???

For example in the context of the Crash Course, US dollar devaluation / inflation seems a strong certainty (Its been a while since I watched it but I believe this was one of many points). However can military or Geo-political coercion perhaps be used to avoid this????

I dont know but I think we will find out in the next 5 years.

Mike Pilat's picture
Mike Pilat
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 929
Re: Political Bias

Arthur, you're right on target. The Federal government wastes a lot of time talking and whenever it takes any action (even the "correct" one) there is a huge part of the population (sometimes the majority) that is going to be very content. There is only one solution to this: the Federal Government should not be making the decision at all. Local levels should handle matters. I have much greater faith in someone I know on a first name basis that lives in my community than I do some fat cat senator that makes it home for holidays only.

Call me a pessimist, but the more "hope" that is felt by the masses, the less "hope" I feel in regards to the new administration. I think the government is going to balloon and further load the economy and destroy our civil liberties, all as Obama is given a carte blanche to do whatever he wants. I suppose it's simple enough to try to consider the Feds irrelevant, but they still do control the military...

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias

Mike,
The military controls the military.

I'm not entirely sure that the organization feels adaquetely represented any more than your or I, and I've spoken to several people in the military who feel things are headed for "worse".

You said:

Quote:

I think the government is going to balloon and further load the economy and destroy our civil liberties, all as Obama is given a carte blanche to do whatever he wants

Remember what happened during the last depression?
It was used as political leaverage by FDR to pass sweeping legislation that ordinarially would have been hotly contested...

I feel the same foulness is afoot here.

Mike Pilat's picture
Mike Pilat
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 929
Re: Political Bias

Aaron, I remember you saying that you had served in the military. Any more insights into the mood and feelings of service men and women would be welcome.

I wish I didn't have to think this way, but at a time of crisis, the allegiance and feelings of the military become critically important.

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Political Bias
Quote:

Whoa... I'm won't presume to defend Chris, but as a conservative, and
servicemen, it should be noted that historically Republicans have been
anti-war for it's outrageous cost in both finances and lives.

Intelligent use of resources is not a dramatic semantic leap from "conservative", and I would submit that it's the Republicans
who might want to rethink their strategy of pandering to a union of
church and state, and prolonged interventionism on a global level.
Their proposterous platform of preventing gay marriage, anti-abortion
and prolonged war is going to be a death sentance; as these are all
ideas that prevent individual liberty and apply ideals through force.

Personally, I find homosexuality and aboritions in conflict with my beliefs, but it is absolutely not my place to tell anyone else how to live.

Republicans have sold out conservatives. As conservatives, we need
to re-orient the party that best represents us, before they have
seperated themselves entirely from the conservative principles of
financial responsibility, civil liberty and no-aggression.

Sorry if I've gotten a little "off topic", but this is something
that should be interrogated by strong conservative minds before the
next election. The "Neo-Cons" are facists who simply want to control
through fear and oppression.

Aaron. I am an ex-Republican. In fact, I have voted republican for every president except this one (I voted 3rd party). 

You hit the nail on the head. Fact is though, "conservatives" of past never really did live up to the hype, the rhetoric, and promises that they espoused. But the BA was the final straw. (And I campaigned for the jerk on 04' under the flawed "lesser of two evils" baloney, arrghh!, shame on me). However, I must disclose a belief bias. I am a big believer in complete non-violence, save that used as necessary for defense against a direct AND unprovoked assault. So, you can quite obviously see at least one compelling reason for why Bush disgusts me. 

I have no issues stating here and now that I despise the neoconservative movement. But, until "conservatism" becomes EXACTLY what you proclaim it ought to be, it will in my opinion, remain lost in the wilderness. 

Personally I think George Bush is the John Major of the Republican party. 

Give me a party with more Ron Pauls and Bob Barrs, and I reconsider voting Republican. But, you know that old saying. 

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, 

you won't get fooled again! (LOL, a Bushism). 

Nice post BTW. 

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Political Bias

Chris. I did have a Bush supporter turn your course off once he heard that comment.

Just thought that I should let you know. People are subject to what I see as institutional programming, particularly with any organized movement. Mere criticisms, direct or indirect, often cause people to shut down immediately. Especially with organized political movements, which I think are way more based on a pseudo-religious (not in terms of theism) faith-like loyalty than reason. 

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias

Mike,

It's pretty well divided in terms of the political orientation. There are quite a few enthusiastic "status quo" supporters; and by that I mean "republicans" or "democrats", but there is also a substantial contingent of people who disagree with the direction we've taken, the infringements upon civil liberties and the mal-adjusted approach our .gov has taken to the constitution.

Some guys, myself included, take that oath extremely personally. There are a lot of servicemen who can't help but be proud of their nation, but that doesn't preclude them from seeing it's faults.

It's really no different of a population sample as any other group to be honest.
The primary difference is experience at arms and committment to country.

Cheers!

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias

MGhandi,

Quote:

Give me a party with more Ron Pauls and Bob Barrs, and I reconsider voting Republican. But, you know that old saying.

Cheers to that! I was a staunch Ron Paul supporter, and donated more than I should have in retrospect. All the same, we need to be active and organize on a local level, so people can "see" that Republicans (Conservatives, really) aren't big-money panderers who have no time for the 'little guy'.

Ron Paul was the first politician who I was ever excited about. I did as you did, and voted what I thought to be the "lesser of two evils", and what a horrible choice that was. I voted for Badnardik in 2004 and RP in 2008. Neo-cons like McCain won't capture my vote.

To use another "bushism" we need better "strategery" as a population to mitigate crisis. To me, this transcends political parties, but my "main" believe is that the federal government should be so small and inactive that you hardly notice they're there if they're not dealing with internation matters or supreme court issues. Unfortunately, the Democrats always campaign for "government" solutions - which are always a simple series of compromises.

To all our Democratic friends - don't take that as a slight. After Bush, I feel as if I've been left for dead in a ditch. Big government, big spending, no consideration to civil liberties.
Awful.

Cheers!

Mike Pilat's picture
Mike Pilat
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 929
Re: Political Bias

I don't want to push more beliefs around at people but there is a very interesting thing that I found. It's called the World's Smallest Political Quiz. In the interest of full disclosure, it was created by libertarians, but I think the Nolan Chart that it produces is a far superior way of understanding politics than simply right or left. See here: http://www.theadvocates.org/quizp/index.html

If you do a little more research on the Nolan Chart, you can find more interesting stuff as well. Some people have dug up McCain and Obama quotes and done their best to determine where each would fall on the chart. Both fall in squarely as big government statists - McCain slightly to the right and Obama slightly to the left in this section of the chart. Interesting to hear this, it seems to fit my general sense - I don't think either wanted to downsize Washington the way that Ron Paul did. Again in full disclosure, the good Texas doctor captured my vote this go around too.

I believe there could be much greater unity in this country if people realized that Ron Paul types (unfortunately there aren't many) are able to unite some of the most important issues of our time - fiscal responsibility and civil liberties. Choosing between Republicans and Democrats is just simply picking your poison, but I can't really call that choice.

I think the point of the Nolan Chart ties in very well with many of the things we are bringing up here. It changes the focus from right vs. left and shifts the paradigm into liberty vs. state power. For all the talk the Republican party might still attempt to throw around about fiscal responsibility and small government, we have watched the Neo Cons act as some of the most powerful statists yet, with the greatest infringements on our liberties and freedoms. And yes, I take it very personally that I can be wiretapped without a reason, my house searched with a warrant, detained without being charged, and imprisoned and tortured as an enemy combatant with no expectation of a fair trial, all in the name of "protecting Americans." This is not the Republic the founders envisioned and it does not serve the People's interests. Our government should not even have the power to be capable of committing such atrocities.

Mike

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: Political Bias
Doug wrote:

Besides, those who call themselves conservative these days are not conservative as I grew up to understand the term. Aaron is absolutely right that today's Republicans (at least the neocons) have abandoned conservative principles

Ironic isn't it....  how, as well, the Democrats (like the Labor Parties of the UK and Australia) have abandoned 'the left'.....

Have all parties abandoned 'the people'?

Mike 

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: Political Bias

I think there's a lesson to be learned there.

Think globally, act locally.

As good a maxim as there ever was...

Mike 

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias

Sorry - double post again.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias

Think locally act locally.

I can't see any good reason for someone in Boston to influence life in Samoa.

Values = culture and culture should be maintained.

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: Political Bias

We should be fair in recognizing that both democrats and republicans have equally ruined the country.  There really is no difference between the parties - except in their rhetoric.  I really wish a third party could gain some traction, preferably the Libertarian or Constitution Party.

At one time, the republican party claimed they were for small government and less spending.  Then, starting with Reagan, deficit spending exploded as the republicans found a political solution - tell the people they are getting tax cuts while their unreported inflation taxes were soaring.

Just as the republicans abandoned the right, the democrats are abandoning the left.  The neocons took over the GOP and now they are taking over the democratic party.  Now we have the democrats, and the neocons have again taken over.  

The democrats and republicans colluded in eliminating the traditional women's league of voters debates in which they were free to invite third party candidates.  Ross Perot broke in big after he was invited to participate in the debates. Regardless of whether you agree with him or not, the bottom line is that our two party tyranny eliminated viable third party candidates by running their own two party debates.

Larry 

Mike Pilat's picture
Mike Pilat
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 929
Re: Political Bias

Yep, democrats and republicans are pretty much the biggest head fake of our time. Neither party acts on the values it speaks of and each party acts with blatant imprudence as they cater to their own goals and ignore not only our Constitution, not only timeless values, but also the will of the People. Worst of all, they contribute to the information pollution that is rampant in our media. An uneducated populous is one that will be increasingly easily manipulated, and that thought scares me.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: Political Bias

Agreed.
"Reaganomics" provided the vehicle in which this whole mess spiraled out of control.

The entire concept of a "service based economy" panders to those who don't really want to work at all.
It's not a satasfying or productive way to have the population waste away, and it precludes a quick comeback in case of a depression, as there are no manufacturing jobs to get needed goods out, and get people working in some capacity.

It's too bad too, because Rhetorically, I think Reagan had his heart in the right place.

...And what do they say about good intentions and roads?

I don't think they have much more time anyway, so eh. Govern thyself.

Cheers!

Aaron

Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1503
Re: Political Bias
Aaron Moyer wrote:

Republicans have sold out conservatives. As conservatives, we need to
re-orient the party that best represents us, before they have seperated
themselves entirely from the conservative principles of financial
responsibility, civil liberty and no-aggression.

Couldn't agree more.

It is tragic that many of the views espoused here re: maximize local governance and minimize centralized government, which I totally agree with, is exactly what Republicanism/Conservatism used to be about (long long ago).  

At this point, the only difference between the two parties is in the spelling of their names, and the only political party or candidate I will ever support is the one whose first platform goal reads, "Abolish the Fed."

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments