Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

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akmc1234's picture
akmc1234
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Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

I recently talked to a credible acquaintance.  A partner of his has 37 tons of gold at a US port unable to get released.  He mentioned Obama was expanding Fort Knox 600% and stated he'd heard, in anticipation of a gold confiscation much like FDR did in '33.  I could see the rationale if the dollar keeps dropping and our foreign debt holders get concerned we're totally insolvent.  Anyone  think there is validity and what would it do to gold prices?

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

Sorry,  just saw the thread you all already have running with regards to this.  Fort Knox is under an expansion but its not clear why.  References cite the growing population in the area.  Not sure if that includes the vault.  It seems surreal we are even talking about a likelihood this could happen.

 

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

Why confiscate gold when he can confiscate our retirement plans first, saying we need to invest all our retirement in safe treasury bills?

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
docmims wrote:

Why confiscate gold when he can confiscate our retirement plans first, saying we need to invest all our retirement in safe treasury bills?

I wasn't aware of the expansion. I'll have to look for some articles on it. 

My answer to your why would be: If the Bric's (Brazil, INDIA, Russia and CHINA) created a new reserve, which was in part backed by gold (or some other PM) and we didn't have gold we'd be toast. Well we are already toast, we'd be really burnt toast. The two in caps have done a massive amount of buying.

I've read a lot about the confiscation: Some things that I recall off hand:

  1. Wasn't Constitutional I can't put my fingers on the paper but if I recall it was done by a NY Law professor
  2. Only 30% turned their gold in
  3. Had to have an IRS agent when a safe deposit box was opened
  4. We were using gold then in currency to some extent, and once FDR got the gold at 20.67 an ounce he declared it's value at 35 an ounce, and that made the dollar 70% weaker
  5. They didn't take silver or numismatic gold

Sure this is stuff everyone on the site knows. I would not be the least bit surprised if they:

  1. Know what is going on - Soro's I get the feeling knows a lot about this
  2. Are making some just in case preparations
  3. Wouldn't lose a winks sleep stealing our gold
  4. Aren't creative so doing what was done would fit the mold
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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
Davos wrote:

I've read a lot about the confiscation: Some things that I recall off hand:

  1. Wasn't Constitutional I can't put my fingers on the paper but if I recall it was done by a NY Law professor
  2. Only 30% turned their gold in
  3. Had to have an IRS agent when a safe deposit box was opened
  4. We were using gold then in currency to some extent, and once FDR got the gold at 20.67 an ounce he declared it's value at 35 an ounce, and that made the dollar 70% weaker
  5. They didn't take silver or numismatic gold

Sure this is stuff everyone on the site knows. I would not be the least bit surprised if they:

  1. Know what is going on - Soro's I get the feeling knows a lot about this
  2. Are making some just in case preparations
  3. Wouldn't lose a winks sleep stealing our gold
  4. Aren't creative so doing what was done would fit the mold

All good reasons for me to git my heinie up to Albany on Monday and lay in a little more silver...

Viva -- Sager

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

Can't your credible acquaintance give you more details? If so, please share them.

I think gold confiscation would be a difficult thing to do. Back in '33 gold was money and held by everyone - and I imagine giving it up was seen as a patriotic duty by many. Gold is now mostly owned by the wealthy and I don't think they will turn it over so easily. 

Much simpler would be a big tax on gold sales. That's what I fear. And as someone else mentioned, raiding 401Ks - there's some easy money.

 

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

As long as criminals run our government, any theft is possible.  The gold confiscation of 1933 was pure theft without reason.  FDR had already closed the domestic gold redemption window - if no one could redeem gold, why was it needed?

We had already been stolen blind by that point in history anyways.  If you look closely (sorry it's not bigger) at the 1928 $5 FRN note shown below, it states:

"REDEEMABLE IN GOLD ON DEMAND AT THE UNITED STATES TREASURY OR IN GOLD OR LAWFUL MONEY AT ANY FEDERAL RESERVE BANK"

So, if you took this note to a Federal reserve Bank, they could redeem it with another FRN. If you took it to the U.S. Treasury, you could redeem it in gold.  This means that the U.S. was backing all money created and loaned out profitably by private banks on a fractional basis.  The gold stock remained relatively constant while the money supply grew.  Eventually, the U.S. had to default - it was inevitable.  We were set-up to be robbed of our gold.

If you are wondering why the U.S. would back up money created profitably by private banks, congratulations, you understand. If the U.S. had the gold, why wouldn't the U.S. LEND money to the banks?  And if the U.S. had the gold, why did we borrow money from banks instead of issuing it ourselves free from debt and without any interest charges?

Our debt based monetary system is the biggest Ponzi scheme in history.  It is a an insult to our national intelligence that it remains in place today. 

Larry

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

Can't your credible acquaintance give you more details? If so, please share them.

It has been almost twenty years since I had seen him last and he has been traveling overseas working with foreign militaries and doing business in Saudi among others.  When I catch up with him again I'll see what substance he may have.  I did check on the Fort Knox expansion but that could just be demographically driven.  If the gov did confiscate, how would that affect holdings outside of the US?

 

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

Some corrections and clarifications:

1.  Silver was also nationalized by FDR, not just gold.  (Paper $ being given at the official rate in compensation.)

2.  Fort Knox is being expanded due to the Base Realignment and Closure which is consolidating military bases around the country.  Now, the more precise question is whether the gold repository is being expanded.  But remember, there are other repositories of the nation's gold around the country.

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

In reflecting on the ease of securing our 401k's I'd think that would be the "confiscation".  Then the gov't could buy gold for the vaults, strengthening the treasury as well as circulating the dollar abroad again.  They would have to do it before our reserve currency status was revoked though, or they would have to redenominate into the new reserve currency.  It would be a psychological boost internationally for the US to strengthen their gold reserves using 'greenbacks'.  I would think.  Make sense?

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
akmc1234 wrote:

.  It would be a psychological boost internationally for the US to strengthen their gold reserves using 'greenbacks'.  I would think.  Make sense?

Yes.  I can see the Obama speak:  " This is America!  Nobody can tell me that our retirees retirement accounts aren't SAFE!  We are hereby investing all retirement accounts in US BONDS.  Nothing is safer!  We will back these bonds with gold!  Be PROUD to be INVESTING in YOUR COUNTRY!  YOUR HIGHER POWER BLESS AMERICA!"

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

Taking money out of retirement plans will be something of last resort.  They will only resort to that when they can no longer print money to service their debt.  Until then, they will continue to dimish the value of our retirement holdings via devaulation of the currency.

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
jcgetting wrote:

Some corrections and clarifications:

1.  Silver was also nationalized by FDR, not just gold.  (Paper $ being given at the official rate in compensation.)

2.  Fort Knox is being expanded due to the Base Realignment and Closure which is consolidating military bases around the country.  Now, the more precise question is whether the gold repository is being expanded.  But remember, there are other repositories of the nation's gold around the country.

Still, Ft. Knox holds most of the nation's tungsten. 

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

From an earlier post: If gold is made illegal

I've stated this many times before but here it goes again. I do believe the this administartions solution to the debt is to devalue the currency. But they will also need real wealth to negotiate abroad.

I believe that some form of Executive Order 6102 will be reinstated to make it illegal to own gold in any large quantity. Remember they don't have to kick down your door to find it. If you purchase anything like a house, business, land or anything of substantial value with your gold you will have to account for where the money came from. This goes for trading it abroad as well. Also keep in mind that from 1933 to 1971 it remainded illegal to own gold. That is a long time to sit on your investment.

 

Good article on the topic.

1933: TERRORIZING PEOPLE INTO HANDING OVER GOLD

http://emsnews2.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/1933-terrorizing-people-into-handing-over-gold/

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

It's not gold the government would want, per se, it is value. As Chris has pointed out, there is far more value locked up in 401ks and entitlements than the value of all the nation's gold. I see tax increases and 401k restrictions as the most practical approach an insolvent government would take. Since most people invest in a  401k / IRA with the mentality of "don't touch it till you retire" they won't feel like they've lost something to the degree that someone would feel they've lost something if they had to physically turn over gold. This might be a bogus distinction, but keeping the masses somewhat calm will be important for the government.

Even if the government did attempt to confiscate gold, I doubt it would be very successful, especially with the internet. While just about anything is possible if the gov. hires thugs to enforce this, a far less costly approach would be to confiscate wealth electronically, rather than physically...

All said, diversity will be key. Owning silver, a little palladium and a little platinum certainly couldn't hurt. Food, good property, ammunition, etc. are also more intrinsically valuable than gold. Gold confiscation is extreme. But confiscation of all of the above is practically impossible.

Just my take,

Mike

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
Johnny Oxygen wrote:

From an earlier post: If gold is made illegal

I've stated this many times before but here it goes again. I do believe the this administartions solution to the debt is to devalue the currency. But they will also need real wealth to negotiate abroad.

I believe that some form of Executive Order 6102 will be reinstated to make it illegal to own gold in any large quantity. Remember they don't have to kick down your door to find it. If you purchase anything like a house, business, land or anything of substantial value with your gold you will have to account for where the money came from. This goes for trading it abroad as well. Also keep in mind that from 1933 to 1971 it remainded illegal to own gold. That is a long time to sit on your investment.

 

Good article on the topic.

1933: TERRORIZING PEOPLE INTO HANDING OVER GOLD

http://emsnews2.wordpress.com/2009/02/04/1933-terrorizing-people-into-handing-over-gold/

 

To play devils advocate here. Who is to say that transactions can't happen 'off the books.' When things get real bad, there will be all sorts of bartering happening.

As an example, you go to buy a house, but only have $500 in the bank (pulled the number out of my butt) but you have 100oz of gold. Who is to say a contract can't be written for $500 but pay out majority (or whatever is decided) in gold.

What I am getting at is things happen off the books all the time, and when things get harry, and the dollar is worthless, I have no problem accepting PM as payment.

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
Mike Pilat wrote:

It's not gold the government would want, per se, it is value. As Chris has pointed out, there is far more value locked up in 401ks and entitlements than the value of all the nation's gold. I see tax increases and 401k restrictions as the most practical approach an insolvent government would take. Since most people invest in a  401k / IRA with the mentality of "don't touch it till you retire" they won't feel like they've lost something to the degree that someone would feel they've lost something if they had to physically turn over gold. This might be a bogus distinction, but keeping the masses somewhat calm will be important for the government.

Even if the government did attempt to confiscate gold, I doubt it would be very successful, especially with the internet. While just about anything is possible if the gov. hires thugs to enforce this, a far less costly approach would be to confiscate wealth electronically, rather than physically...

All said, diversity will be key. Owning silver, a little palladium and a little platinum certainly couldn't hurt. Food, good property, ammunition, etc. are also more intrinsically valuable than gold. Gold confiscation is extreme. But confiscation of all of the above is practically impossible.

Just my take,

Mike

 

Can I get an AMEN!!

 

Laughing

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

It's not gold the government would want, per se, it is value. As Chris has pointed out, there is far more value locked up in 401ks and entitlements than the value of all the nation's gold.

Yes but think globally. What will other countries want from the US in a trade? Not anything attached to the dollar. I think all of the 'creative financial instruments', 401k, ETF's, etc, will just fall apart once it finally hits the fan and the ancient desire for true wealth will once again come to the surface. PM's are the only real wealth, and consequently, real power in bad times and the government will want it just as badly as anyone else.

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
Johnny Oxygen wrote:

It's not gold the government would want, per se, it is value. As Chris has pointed out, there is far more value locked up in 401ks and entitlements than the value of all the nation's gold.

Yes but think globally. What will other countries want from the US in a trade?

REAL ESTATE.  Physical land, facilities, and natural resources.

 

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?
npwebb wrote:
Johnny Oxygen wrote:

Yes but think globally. What will other countries want from the US in a trade?

REAL ESTATE.  Physical land, facilities, and natural resources.

I can see it now - California, the "Golden State" will be the first handed over. We're broke and have a water problem anyway ... not good for much else. Wonder if the nearly 40 million population would be considered a benefit or a drawback?

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

that1guy

Quote:

What I am getting at is things happen off the books all the time, and when things get harry, and the dollar is worthless, I have no problem accepting PM as payment.

Exactly, if the dollar becomes worthless there will be black markets springing up all over.  Hell, I live in the middle of one now.  It's called the Amish community.  They have to pay some taxes, but they rarely collect sales taxes and my guess is that a lot of their income is "in kind" and, although technically taxable, probably isn't.  The state gov't apparently has chosen to look the other way because the Amish attract tourists and are otherwise good neighbors.  They keep their properties up and in an area of wide spread poverty that's a big plus.  And, they shop in "English" businesses.  Try to hold a yard sale without some of them stopping by.  Further, they don't burden any of the social services systems.  All good arguments for giving them breaks, but if I lived the same lifestyle, I wouldn't get them.  Sometime soon we may find out as we will all be living more like the Amish.Smile

I haven't felt any of them out about trading for PM's, but now that the seed is planted, I will.

Doug

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Re: Obama Planning to Confiscate Gold?

that1guy

Quote:

What I am getting at is things happen off the books all the time, and when things get harry, and the dollar is worthless, I have no problem accepting PM as payment.

 

Exactly, if the dollar becomes worthless there will be black markets springing up all over.  Hell, I live in the middle of one now.  It's called the Amish community.  They have to pay some taxes, but they rarely collect sales taxes and my guess is that a lot of their income is "in kind" and, although technically taxable, probably isn't.  The state gov't apparently has chosen to look the other way because the Amish attract tourists and are otherwise good neighbors.  They keep their properties up and in an area of wide spread poverty that's a big plus.  And, they shop in "English" businesses.  Try to hold a yard sale without some of them stopping by.  Further, they don't burden any of the social services systems.  All good arguments for giving them breaks, but if I lived the same lifestyle, I wouldn't get them.  Sometime soon we may find out as we will all be living more like the Amish.Smile

I haven't felt any of them out about trading for PM's, but now that the seed is planted, I will.

Doug

I see your point. But I think the IRS would catch on to that and start full throttle audits because they will need the money. "Let's see Mr. Brown you paid $500.00 for 20 acres and a house? Hmmmm"

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I just found this on The

I just found this on The Onion. Many a true word spoken in jest?

http://www.theonion.com/video/treasury-department-issues-emergency-recall-of-all,14328/

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