New Zealand Forum

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mstjane's picture
mstjane
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New Zealand Forum

I am planning to move to New Zealand 2010 or earlier based on the Peak Oil Alert from Chris today.

It had been suggested to me start a forum to centralized interested people, information and connections that address moving to NZ, vacation et al.

Community:

Who is set up in a community?

 

Who would like to start a community?  Where

 

Links and Websites I have found or been sent:

http://www.transitiontowns.org.nz/http://www.f4.ca/text/possumliving.htm

Eco village & teaches permaculture http://www.otamatea.org.nz/

KEA - Kiwi Expats overseas

http://www.move2nz.com/

Jarhett's picture
Jarhett
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Why do think NZ (an isolated island nation) is better equiped to deal with peak oil than where you live now?

mstjane's picture
mstjane
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Re: New Zealand Forum

I live mid Atlantic on a small island that depends on everything being imported from US.  With 21 square miles there is no chance of food sovereignty with 65k people & the fish stocks are not looking too good either.

I know NZ well and trying to make peace with returning home in the face of the realities coming up fast.

Plus I lived there in the 1980's and used alternative fuels such natural gas / petrol ... see lots of innovation and feel better quality of life than anywhere else I could think of.

Being North Is. bred and South Is. roots/family struggling with location (not sure about the cold either LOL) my daughter and grandson are returning soon too althou they are looking at Hamilton.

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kiwidave
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New Zealand and peak oil

Jarhett, I guess there are very few people (Amazonian Indians? New Guinea highlanders?) that would be unaffected by peak oil. NZ does have good reserves of gas, coal and oil but does rely on imported oil so no way would we be immune.
However we do have 75% of our electricity from renewables and already use LPG and CNG for transport fuels so you could say there is already some level of adaption.
The biggest concern I have is with the social and economic impacts of PO,
Life in the big cities and their car dependant suburbs would become increasingly difficult anywhere in the world. Some of the American small towns, near good farmland and with good growing climates would be as well placed as most of NZ in my view. I live in a small town in the far north of NZ - warm temperate/subtropical climate.

I feel NZ is a good option but moving to a new country would be fairly dramatic for most, I am happy to field questions from folk considering the move.
Cheers,
David.

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ccpetersmd
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Re: New Zealand Forum

We are also contemplating a move. Should hear about a potential job in Taranaki in the next couple of weeks. Looking elsewhere in New Zealand, and Australia, too. In the end, we'll probably stay in Iowa, though.

Jarhett's picture
Jarhett
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Paging Doctor Peters

Why do you feel NZ is more prepared than Iowa?

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ccpetersmd
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Re: Paging Doctor Peters
Jarhett wrote:

Why do you feel NZ is more prepared than Iowa?

I don't feel it is any more prepared, necessarily, but I am very worried about the debt burden that will pass to my three sons and their progeny if we remain in the U.S. New Zealand seems to be taking a more prudent approach in terms of "stimulus spending", from what I have read thus far.

Also, I simply wouldn't mind a change of pace. I've lived in Kansas, Hawaii, Georgia, Oklahoma, Indiana, Colorado, and now Iowa (some of this was Army related). Moving for us isn't so much of a difficulty, as it is an adventure.

That said, we are in a good area of Iowa, and Iowa was rated #2 (after Nebraska and before Kansas) on a recent "economic happiness index".

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ccpetersmd
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Hah! I didn't see notice the "paging" subtitle. 

mstjane's picture
mstjane
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Re: New Zealand Forum

My purpose for this thread is to create a community online or in NZ or for those considering NZ so that all the great information and discussion falls in one place as opposed to all over the site.  I see there are posting on NZ and as Larina/David suggested a centralized forum could be helpful.

Larina/David you are in the far north what is unemployment looking like?

Secondly I am trying to figure out where to go but feel constricted to places with good connections through family or friends (difficulty for me is that family connections are tenous and tend to be out of touch and I am an ocean person everyone seems to be in land like Hamilton ugh can't smell salt in the air there).

I really liked the look of the Eco Village but looked like a closed shop althou I think I saw one property on the market and an eco farm up north.  Chris mentioned building a community but I do not think there is time for that now with Peak Oil looming faster than expected.

Not being the farming type I am trying to work how to refocus while dreading leaving island life ...

Any suggestions out there

 

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kiwidave
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Hi MstJane, I'm in the Bay of Islands.

National unemployment is around 5%, probably higher here. Quite a lot of decline in the building and services sector as you would expect. Farming still good and of course government jobs are safe as.

Setting up a community sounds like a long term project, nice idea but I just wonder at the practicalities of it. There are lots of small towns with like minded folk you can connect with and this would be a better option for a new arrival in my view. Maybe something you could work towards?

Cheers,

David.

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Amanda V
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Hi

Here is also another link about NZ that readers may be interested in

http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/new-zealand-vacation-and-or-residence/16099

I could be interested in a community in NZ.  But it is a far more difficult than just deciding to do it.  Although I have put some time in to solving all the rigorous council regulations and how to get around them !

 It is probably easier to create your community with your neighbours.  I would be very interested in like minded people buying close to me.

THere is a lovely small christian community near us in a valley called Reikorangi.  But they don't have a web site - I googled it and there was nothing.

Feel free to email me if you wish.

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Amanda V
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Re: New Zealand Forum
Jarhett wrote:

Why do think NZ (an isolated island nation) is better equiped to deal with peak oil than where you live now?

It is not just about peak oil.  It is all three E's.  And at the end of the day, it comes down to providing food, easily.  NZ has enough land to feed 60 million people, and we have 4 million people.

 

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Jarhett
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Re: New Zealand Forum

It is not just about peak oil.  It is all three E's.  And at the end of the day, it comes down to providing food, easily.  NZ has enough land to feed 60 million people, and we have 4 million people.

 Yeah, but most of the land is not prime farming land.  It is mountainous and hilly, hence all the sheep.  Also the weather is not the best.  If I were to relocate myself I would want to move somewhere that was not so isolated from the rest of the world.  How do you intend to get medicine, manufactured goods, and other equipment once shtf.  Sure in NZ you make a lot of food products, but you are very dependant on imports from other countries.  When in comes down to it there are a lot of places in the North America that are better equiped to handle the triple E's.  There is no need to immigrate to another country, or to drive on the wrong side of the road.  

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Damnthematrix
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Just heard on the news that NZ housing values fell 9% last quarter...?

Mike 

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Amanda V
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Re: New Zealand Forum
Jarhett wrote:

It is not just about peak oil.  It is all three E's.  And at the end of the day, it comes down to providing food, easily.  NZ has enough land to feed 60 million people, and we have 4 million people.

 Yeah, but most of the land is not prime farming land.  It is mountainous and hilly, hence all the sheep.  Also the weather is not the best.  If I were to relocate myself I would want to move somewhere that was not so isolated from the rest of the world.  How do you intend to get medicine, manufactured goods, and other equipment once shtf.  Sure in NZ you make a lot of food products, but you are very dependant on imports from other countries.  When in comes down to it there are a lot of places in the North America that are better equiped to handle the triple E's.  There is no need to immigrate to another country, or to drive on the wrong side of the road.  

 Yes I guess I can admit that there could possibly be some other suitable places in the world to survive TSHTF. 

BUT.  Going past the three E's:  there is a thread up at the moment about further risk of a bird flu pandemic - NZ is very isolated.  There is always threat of war in the future - NZ is very isolated. 

As for medicines and other goods - we are very dependent on a highly complex society and oil for all these things.  It is absolutely no given they will be available in USA either.  At all.  Remember chapter 17 a b and c of the crash course.  Oil allows us to have a highly complex society.  And what's more, we have some of our own oil.

We can support 60 million people despite the hills and valleys.  Even if most people are eating mutton and beef. 

The weather is sub tropical in Northland, and cold in the south island - we have a huge variation.  You take your pick.

And lastly, it is you sir, who drive on the wrong side of the road ;)   !!

Amanda V's picture
Amanda V
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Damnthematrix, 

Yes.  The newspapers are full of news like that - all the investors are rushing in and buying now, thinking interest rates have bottomed. 

But housing prices will will go down more. 

minihaha's picture
minihaha
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Jarhett,

 Yes you are right. Dont come to NZ. You stay nice and cosy where you are. I am sure the US will continue to function perfectly fine once their status and base of power has been stripped.

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Vanityfox451
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Re: New Zealand Forum

Hi Jarhett,

I can see something building up on this thread that I don't want to see and you're going to become the Patsy; it won't be pretty!! Can I make a compromise with you from what I'm reading above??

In all the different colours, flavours and varieties you can find amongst so many different countries around the world, in my own opinion, from living and working in NZ and 10+ other countries, New Zealand has many more pros than cons. Amanda and I have been in contact with eachother by email over some time now and, the most important of our discussion has been posted onto CM.com a few days ago on another 'New Zealand' thread that you can find a link to on post#10 above.

I think it relevant that I again post that study I made to this thread. All I ask of you is, instead of finding five reasons why NZ isn't the country of choice, give me five reasons why it is...

Best,

Paul

:-

You're in the best damn country on the planet. At 6pm my time you had precisely 4,300,513 people living on 2 islands that can safely support the population. http://www.stats.govt.nz/people/default.htm Infact, judging by your export quota, you could safely support twice that amount on the resources that you have inside your shores. You have geo-thermal, hydro-thermal, in 2005 you had over 11.5 million barrels of oil under your ground; a quota of natural gas that won't be in decline anytime soon and the south island seems to be made of pure coal (lignite), with 4 underground mines and 19 open-cast mines. You've been having some draughts that have been having a nasty effect on water supplies dropping by 57% over the last year which is a cause for concern with your hydro-electric plant, but it seems you have a 32 year old asbestos filled gas powered power station that'll be covering the electrical shortfall over the winter months to stop any chance of black-outs :- http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10513152 ...out of that 4.3 million people, the country employs 3 million people and carries unemployement at low figures compared to every western style country in the northern hemisphere. The figures are projected to rise from 3.7 to 5.7 early this year. NZ imports 140,900 barrels per day of oil to add to its own daily production figures of 42,000 bpd, but your export production market was using nearly 45% of this oil. With reductions in transport and the re-administration of many of the railway lines lain waste in the mid 90's, there is every chance that the infastructure of the country will be many many times better off than 90% of other western style northern hemisphere countries. You have a 'can do' nature at heart that is quite prevelant in NZ and you're naturally open to new philosophies and ideas. If George Celente can say something nice about NZ, that is saying something :-

That's the really good stuff and this is the not so very bad stuff... I've looked in on my favourite pet hate, The International Monetary Fund (IMF). They've got their fingers into every country on the planet with Free Trade Markets which, with this global meltdown happening, I'd state my oath that they're steering every culture and creed into Capitalism and debt, they've raped NZ in much the same way as Haiti, Jamaica, Indonesia, etc..... the list just goes on and on. In a nutshell, they've come to NZ, given them loans with interest to pay so as to 'Grow The Economy', and with this oncoming depression, safe to say they're going to strip assets from your natural resources for the paper they printed from thin air!! For example, your telephone, gas, mining and steel industries, including part of your agriculture and wood supply companies, plus meat automation companies and about 7% of your fertile crop growing land all belong to American subsiduries. You've also been allowing a massive amount of foriegn investment into the country that has put you second only to Japan on the list of countries that the IMF love doing business with.  Since 2001, foreign investment in NZ has risen by 700%, while your Labour government has carried on selling off your assets as though they owned them. For this matter, they've been sending out the money from the sales of these assets as investment bond loans for 6.7% and gaining returns on this money for only 2.5%. This money is for pensions in the future (ponzi scheme?) so I wouldn't be investing in the 'Kiwisaver' scheme any more than the American 401K you might have read about on CM.com. I've a link to a piece written nearly a decade ago that makes this current fiasco that is looming very worth sitting up and reading because your government is being manipulated by the World Trade Organisation and then the government are manipulating the people :- http://www.voy.com/1950/113.html This is worth linking with the above :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Award 'Projected' foreign debt (investment) for 2009 stands at 117.8 billion $NZD, which is an awful lot more asset stripping by foreign parties if these debts aren't payed off (with interest) by the very moderate 4.3 million population. This link below is Wikipedia at its finest. If you click around all the links throughout and at the bottom of the article, it'll lead you on a 'Magical Mystery Tour' of the finer details of your home countries history :- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_Zealand If you want a decent way to see what is happening to the New Zealand Dollar against the Euro, this is your baby. It's worth clicking around and seeing what a mess the Hungarian Forint is becoming too :- http://www.ecb.int/stats/exchange/eurofxref/html/eurofxref-graph-nzd.en.html I also have ideas that what will happen to NZ are similar to the past. This site has a little history of the post 1929 crash and what effects it had on your country :- http://www.teara.govt.nz/1966/F/FinancePublic/TheDepression/en Here are your Labour Market Stats http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/37702FDC-90A1-41D2-B333-9521FBB4A34F/0/labourmarketstatistics2007.pdf And lastly, my favourite - The 2005 IMF NZ financial report http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2006/cr06160.pdf Don't waste your time on these last two unless you're curious, because they're very dry and even I had a little snooze in the middle of both...

Jarhett's picture
Jarhett
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Posts: 132
Re: New Zealand Forum

I think it relevant that I again post that study I made to this thread. All I ask of you is, instead of finding five reasons why NZ isn't the country of choice, give me five reasons why it is...

 

1.  Great Indian Food ( Little India Christchurch is the best)

2.  Beets on Hamburgers is quite delicous

3.  Tui beer is quite good

4.  Customs always cleans my rugby boots free of charge

5.  Gotta Love the meat pies

Ki Ora,

 Jarhett

Jarhett's picture
Jarhett
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 21 2008
Posts: 132
Re: New Zealand Forum

I think it relevant that I again post that study I made to this thread. All I ask of you is, instead of finding five reasons why NZ isn't the country of choice, give me five reasons why it is...

 

1.  Great Indian Food ( Little India Christchurch is the best)

2.  Beets on Hamburgers is quite delicous

3.  Tui beer is quite good

4.  Customs always cleans my rugby boots free of charge

5.  Gotta Love the meat pies

Ki Ora,

 Jarhett

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
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Posts: 1636
Re: New Zealand Forum

That's Great Jarhett,

That covers your gut and your boots... Twice!!Wink

I think that Christopher Peters and others above have some slightly more pressing reasons to make such a decision regarding their move to NZ from the USA. One of those has to be an early study that Chris Martenson put up on this forum :-

The United States Is Insolvent

http://www.peakprosperity.com/martensonreport/united-states-insolvent

Prepare to be shocked.

The US is insolvent. There is simply no way for our national bills to be paid under current levels of taxation and promised benefits. Our combined federal deficits now total more than 400% of GDP.

That is the conclusion of a recent Treasury/OMB report entitled Financial Report of the United States Government that was quietly slipped out on a Friday (12/15/06), deep in the holiday season, with little fanfare.

Sometimes I wonder why the Treasury Department doesn't just pay somebody to come in at 4:30 am on Christmas morning to release the report. Additionally, I've yet to read a single account of this report in any of the major news media outlets, but that is another matter.

But, hey, I understand. A report this bad requires all the muffling it can get.

In his accompanying statement to the report, David Walker, Comptroller of the US, warmed up his audience by stating that the GAO had found so many significant material deficiencies in the government's accounting systems that the GAO was "unable to express an opinion" on the financial statements. Ha ha! He really knows how to play an audience!

In accounting parlance, that's the same as telling your spouse, "Our checkbook is such an out-of-control mess, I can't tell if we're broke or rich!" The next time you have an unexplained rash of checking withdrawals from that fishing trip with your buddies, just tell her that you are "unable to express an opinion" and see how that flies. Let us know how it goes!

Then Walker went on to deliver the really bad news: .....

- continued - ....

........................

Where I live in Hungary (I emigrated from the UK last year), I have to also consider the 30+ indirect family members that are going to be affected by the current financial melt-down underway here. I chose Hungary because my partner originates from here and the culture is a great deal more geared toward self sustain than you would give it credit. There are 10.5 million people living here, mainly in cities. The climate is tollerable and growing seasons are long and winter short. This farming community will be here long after its government has tanked.

If I were solo, however, I would already be writing this from NZ...

Best,

Paul

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