Need to finish off my list of items I NEED to have in an emergency...but is using credit a good idea?

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TommyHolly
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Need to finish off my list of items I NEED to have in an emergency...but is using credit a good idea?

Hey guys,

OK second time writing this.  The garbage forum software this site uses doesn't work with Internet Explorer 9 so I can't post or copy and paste...My main question is: Is it a good idea to make a small short term (24-48) month purchase on credit if you are really concerned about an economic collapse?

 I am finishing up the last of my list in order of priority to prepare for some of the most drastic emergency scenarios.  I've taken care of purchasing the rest over the last few years with cash.  I have all the basics, food, heat, multiple forms of energy, water, protection, money and barter items, back up plans to back up plans...  I have no loans of any kind except for my mortgage, everything else, I paid in cash.

One of the larger items I think I will need in the event of a major emergency is a good all terrain motorcycle that has a long range.  (Dual-Sport or Enduro for those of you that know what they are... Either a BMW or Yamaha)  Since I live within an 1/8th of a fuel tank from Chicago, if there was an extreme emergency, people would be flooding the highways trying to get away from the big city.  The highways will be impassable by any car or even a jeep.  Only a motorcycle is a sure bet.  I can't count on fuel being delivered to gas stations along my back-up escape route so I need something with enough range to get me where I need to go, about 500 miles straight South.  Motorcycles like this don't come cheap.  You can't find them used and you need to spend roughly $15,000.

$15,000 isn't something I have available right now.  I am worried that my options may be limited in the future as what I can purchase and I know exactly what I need.  That means purchasing a $15k motorbike with a loan.  This worries me because I know the dangers of getting into debt during an impending crisis...  What would you guys do?  Risk not being able to purchase the exact kind of bike you need and later on settle for something that may end up leaving you stranded in a bad situation?  Or would you bite the bullet and go for the loan to buy the bike you need while you still can but quickly trying to pay it off over the next 2-3 years?

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OK, TH, are you sure you're

OK, TH, are you sure you're not using TEOTWAWKI for an excuse to buy that luscious new Beemer?   I think your escape plan has merit, but I see low mileage Kawasaki KLR650s for sale often in the $3-$4K range.  Those are probably one of the most-used globe-girdling bikes out there.  Rugged, reliable, and cheap.  Three years ago, I'd say "go for it" in regards to any motorcycle purchace (I own about 14 bikes....).  but in the current times, spending that much borrowed money on such an item, with cheaper alternatives available, doesn't make sense to me....but as I've indicated, motorcycles don't have to make sense.   At least they didn't have to.  But things change.....Keep in mind that travel on a bike leaves one pretty vunerable to "outside influences" as well.  You'll have to work hard to keep that nice new bike yours in the scenario you describe.....Aloha, Steve.

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thatchmo wrote: OK, TH, are
thatchmo wrote:

OK, TH, are you sure you're not using TEOTWAWKI for an excuse to buy that luscious new Beemer?   I think your escape plan has merit, but I see low mileage Kawasaki KLR650s for sale often in the $3-$4K range.  Those are probably one of the most-used globe-girdling bikes out there.  Rugged, reliable, and cheap.  Three years ago, I'd say "go for it" in regards to any motorcycle purchace (I own about 14 bikes....).  but in the current times, spending that much borrowed money on such an item, with cheaper alternatives available, doesn't make sense to me....but as I've indicated, motorcycles don't have to make sense.   At least they didn't have to.  But things change.....Keep in mind that travel on a bike leaves one pretty vunerable to "outside influences" as well.  You'll have to work hard to keep that nice new bike yours in the scenario you describe.....Aloha, Steve.

Good post, TH, and good reply thatchmo. 

I've been going through similar brain-strain as TH describes, except in terms of a car that would get much higher mpg than what I now get with my current car.  There are a lot of different angles to look at such a purchase (via  a low interest loan): get better mpg if gas goes way up BUT what happens if job is lost and can't keep paying loan, etc.  Even though I really want to position myself to ride out higher gas prices better, I am still trying to decide if taking out the loan to position myself there is a smart move.  And then, as thatchmo points out, I also start to realize there may be cheaper alternatives (used small, reliable car with low mpg vs new high-profile car that gets high mpg).  OR...do I only plan insurance/resiliency for the worst case scenarios (e.g., as TH suggests,, roads blocked).  That imposes another/different set of requirements on what you'd purchase.  Then high mpg alone may not get you where you need to go.  Hard to sort things out, to even determine what the right criteria are for making such a decision.  

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Thatch....Pinecarr

Might make a small recommendation?

The XR650L, with a lowering link if you need it. The motor is based on 20 year old technology, plenty of refinements in there to make it one of the most bulletproof. No liquid cooling, it is air cooled. Easily reached and adjusted valves. Common parts in large numbers due to it's production levels, with specialty houses for more exotic modifications (Al Baker's XR Only). No chains inside the transmission to break (KLR) and one of the winningest designs for the Baja 1000.

Obviously I have one, and I like it. Mine is slightly modified in the airbox and carburetor and gets approximately 55 to 60 mpg. Much better when I am being good with the throttle and not chasing deer cross country with it pinned wide open.

I have driven this bike all over the SIerras from 7k feet down to the Bay Area, all over Northern California as far North as Fortuna. With a larger after market gas tank and a rack on the tail, I have about 220 miles between fill ups and can carry extra bits on the rack. Wire cutters to get out off highway if TSHTF and you are bugging out, along with bedding, food extra gas, tools. My wife calls it my "Jeep" because I have even towed trailers and pulled other bikes/ quads out with it.

You should be able to find a good used one for around $2500 to $4500. No debt needed.

Best Wishes,

Jager06

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XL650R

Agree with your assessment of the Honda, Jager.  One of the few bikes I've ever sold- just didn't use it much here in Hawaii.  You're definately spot-on with your assessment of the mechanical and design advantages of the Honda over the Kaw.  I think most of the M/C magazines liked the KLR over the Honda for world touring 'cause it was a bit more road-oriented- perhaps another reason why TH may be better served by the Honda.  Keeping it simple is always a good plan.  I can only imagine the amount of complexity in a $15K "dirt bike": anti-lock brakes, traction control, computer this and that, fuel injection.    Tommy- I'd take Jager's advice and experience to heart.  Going over an older bike to service it and make improvments also has benefits...If you don't know bike mechanics, take along a friend who does to check out any used bike.  Aloha,Steve.

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Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ~ by Robert M. Pirsig

Tommy,

Very nice thread!!!

I figure one of my all time favourite books would be a total crime if there weren't a link to a pdf copy of it on this thread, so ...

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ~ by Robert M. Pirsig (PDF)

"In a motorcycle this precision isn’t maintained for any romantic or perfectionist reasons. It’s simply that the enormous forces of heat and explosive pressure inside this engine can only be controlled through the kind of precision these instruments give. When each explosion takes place it drives a connecting rod onto the crankshaft with a surface pressure of many tons per square inch. If the fit of the rod to the crankshaft is precise the explosion force will be transferred smoothly and the metal will be able to stand it. But if the fit is loose by a distance of only a few thousandths of an inch the force will be delivered suddenly, like a hammer blow, and the rod, bearing and crankshaft surface will soon be pounded flat, creating a noise which at first sounds a lot like loose tappets. That’s the reason I’m checking it now. If it is a loose rod and I try to make it to the mountains without an overhaul, it will soon get louder and louder until the rod tears itself free, slams into the spinning crankshaft and destroys the engine. Sometimes broken rods will pile right down through the crankcase and dump all the oil onto the road. All you can do then is start walking.

But all this can be prevented by a few thousandths of an inch fit which precision measuring instruments give, and this is their classical beauty ... not what you see, but what they mean ... what they are capable of in terms of control of underlying form."

"Precision instruments are designed to achieve an idea, dimensional precision, whose perfection is impossible. There is no perfectly shaped part of the motorcycle and never will be, but when you come as close as these instruments take you, remarkable things happen, and you go flying across the countryside under a power that would be called magic if it were not so completely rational in every way. It’s the understanding of this rational intellectual idea that’s fundamental. John looks at the motorcycle and he sees steel in various shapes and has negative feelings about these steel shapes and turns off the whole thing. I look at the shapes of the steel now and I see ideas. He thinks I’m working on parts. I‘m working on concepts."

Jager, Thatchmo, great recommendation's both. A reasonably priced and well maintained classic without all the diagnostic electronic gizmo is a sure fire way of getting oneself out of a sh*t-storm when one needs it the most ...

~ VF ~

Maintainer of Classic's in all guises, thirty years man and boy ... Smile...

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Vanityfox451 wrote: I
Vanityfox451 wrote:

 I figure one of my all time favourite books would be a total crime if there weren't a link to a pdf copy of it on this thread, so ...

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance ~ VF ~ 

I am a carpenter and mason by trade.  Building is also how I express my art.  Phaedrus's quest for quality throughout this book had great influence upon my work.   I am secular and at a young age this book helped me chart a course in this wicked world.  It is also a stark cautionary tale about falling into mental rabbit holes and the price you pay to get out.  Nacci

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Vanityfox451
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A State of Zen ...

Nacci,

You've set a beautiful president that I fully adhere to, much in a similar way as to the traps of being a regular writer on this forum for over two years, up to about 6 weeks ago when I finally realised what I'd been missing. I missed twirling a spanner (wrench), and even though Peak Oil is imminent and I can talk reams and reams of facts on the subject, I figured what the hell and bought a wrecked '74 VW Beetle (Bug) in Clementine orange. I've spent the last weeks welding a floor and heater pipes back into it. The sense of self I've qualified back into myself in this time has been both substantive and rewarding. The project is set at a budget of £700, and will sell for three times as much when finished. It'll go toward my passage to New Zealand from England when I set a date.

In itself, I've seen the sticky fly paper of the traps of this forum in all of its gory detail. After falling down the rabbit-hole that it created, I've finally summarized that no amount of pontificating about the effects on the future; nothing is going to fix this f*cked up world if even 10% of the people in it woke up tomorrow suddenly wizened, and with their head and both ears fully removed from the dark tight brown tunnel they've had it stuck up for millennia!

2008 and the supposed imminent crash that never came taught me something crucial. That 15% has been wiped off of houses and wages in purchasing power in the last 18 months or so, and still the public are asleep at the switch as though nothing has happened. Here I am in the UK and I can stress as a personal opinion that it'll be more than three years before the effects that everyone talks and worries about on this forum are at all visible on the horizon as a solid fact in the minds of my neighbour's. This will be the real beginning of the time I need to worry any.

I'm going to go off and live a while longer. Oh I'll still stick my head into the pages of this little enclave of prognosticators, but I sense there is so much more time to sit and watch the wonder of a sunset; enjoy the pressure of the waves lapping about my feet at a beach; be in awe at the beauty of this world for just a little while longer yet ...

Breathing in - breathing out - repeat. The air is good ... Smile...

~ VF ~

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Vanityfox451
Vanityfox451 wrote:

Nacci,

You've set a beautiful president that I fully adhere to, much in a similar way as to the traps of being a regular writer on this forum for over two years, up to about 6 weeks ago when I finally realised what I'd been missing. I missed twirling a spanner (wrench), and even though Peak Oil is imminent and I can talk reams and reams of facts on the subject, I figured what the hell and bought a wrecked '74 VW Beetle (Bug) in Clementine orange. I've spent the last weeks welding a floor and heater pipes back into it. The sense of self I've qualified back into myself in this time has been both substantive and rewarding. The project is set at a budget of £700, and will sell for three times as much when finished. It'll go toward my passage to New Zealand from England when I set a date.

~ VF ~

If you’re a fan of air cooled Germanic contraptions of ill temper (as I am) you’ll not rest until you read Harry Pellow’s treatise on rebuilding 4 cylinder Porsches. Harry (The Maestro) Pellow published a series of instructional books detailing, with a certain flair for the Zen component, the intricacies of rebuilding a German air cooled engine.

Some call this senseless affliction a disease, indeed, I was struck with a near fatal dose which I named the “Teutonic Plague” which beset me for several decades during which time I spent hours covered in German machine oil transfixed by the contradictions of German engineering. So elegant, so simple, yet so infuriating. Symptoms include babbling incessantly that the auto parts store guy is always smarter than you, your jeans rattle when you walk, bulging with micrometers and vernier calipers just in case you need to mic a part. (No self respecting practitioner would ever use a DIAL caliper, it must be a vernier for any street cred) You’ll argue the thermal expansion  of forged crankshaft journals and the correct temperature for measurement, you’ll use the living room for what God intended, a well deserved and heated respite for engine overhaul.

Your hearing becomes attuned to the strange whirring and clacking of a high performance air cooled engine, and you’ll while away countless hours debating the debasement of a “big bore” kit. You’ll learn the true meaning of expressions, mastered by The Maestro, as to what it really means to be “tighter than a bull in fly time”.

Gucci-shoed 911 owners need not apply, the domain of The Maestro was strictly 4 cylinder machinery, air cooled of course.

The Maestro’s first book, “Porsche Engines and the Future of the Human Race” was the definitive tome for the master race rebuild, followed by the penultimate volume “Secrets of the Inner Circle” describing in vivid and sarcastic detail, the various and sundry insidious failure modes common to the home rebuild.

Even if you’ve never owned an air cooled four cylinder, once you read these two books you surely soon will. Highly recommended.

 

Article on Harry Pellow

Carl R. Bengtson

A gold-plated dip-stick? I didn’t believe it!

I first met Harry Pellow, aka, The Maestro, on the recommendation of another mechanic. “He’s the only one,” he said, “who can put together your engine given the condition of it.”

Harry’s small shop right off the airport in San Jose was initially hard to find. I brought my 912 engine to him in a basket. I hardly guessed that this small man with somewhat beady eyes and a very dirty computer terminal had a master’s degree in chemical engineering from MIT.

When he first talked to me, I could tell his mind raced a million miles an hour about engines, displacement, horsepower and foot pounds of torque.

“Here,” I said, handing him the engine’s crankshaft that had seen its better days. “Someone told me you could fix this.”

He grabbed it like a mother cuddling her first newborn. His glasses responded to a familiar nudge, forcing them to his forehead. Obviously far sighted, Harry inspected the unit with naked eyes.

“Humm,” he said. “Thirty under. But I think I have the right bearings for it somewhere.”

Well, that was some statement because parts were stacked throughout his shop to the point that their availability was accessed only through paths meandering through the piles.

“Man,” I thought. “I hope the engine looks better than his shop when he’s done with it.”

I left the parts with Harry, promising to return soon with what he needed for the job.

Unfortunately, this was at the time that my father was nearing death in Sacramento and I was making numerous trips there to see him. On occasion, I would email Harry promising to bring the parts soon.

Feeling guilty about not returning, one day I emailed The Maestro explaining that I was taking care of my father. He emailed me back: “Don’t worry about the motor; take care of your father.”

After my father’s death, Harry and I rejoined forces to get the engine done, but meanwhile he suffered a heart attack. The engine was again on hold.

Then one day out of the blue, I got an email that the job was done and I could pick up the motor anytime.

I emailed Harry again: “I’ll get there when I can; my mother died yesterday.”

“Geez!” he responded. “I’m sorry. The motor will wait. Take care of your mother.”

Around the New Year I finally got time to pick up the motor. I walked into the cluttered arena to see an engine perfectly put together and clean enough to eat off. A gold-plated dipstick adorned it with majesty befitting a king. After installing the engine into the car I also discovered that it ran as well as it looked.

With great sadness I learned from a friend that Harry had died. News of his death quickly spread through the Porsche community. I had talked to Harry about taking care of himself, and he said he knew he should. But, he said, he was spending too many nights up until 2 or 3 a.m. getting all his work done. I suggested he not worry about the work so much and take care of himself since he was so valuable to all of us.

Harry is gone now, but I am left with a beautiful engine, a memory of a man who really cared about me personally and a prayer to God:

“Don’t worry about my Porsche. Take care of Harry.”

 

 

 

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There are only 2 options...

The main reason I NEED the bike and not just want a bike is for the worst of the worst kind of emergency.  During a financial meltdown, or any other kind of emergency where Gov can no longer provide for the masses (like too many people live their lives), even temporarily, the big cities like Chicago will be affected the most.  Just think about how bad it gets every snowstorm... the shelves of the local grocery stores are emptied overnight, gas stations run out of gas and even snacks, and people panic!  What I just mentioned happens for a simple snow storm where people know it will eventually stop snowing and things will get better... now imagine a true emergency where the future is uncertain?

I can go into these scenarios more but there is no need.  The history channel did a great job giving just a taste of what it will be like...  I highly recommend those interested check this out:

In a true emergency, gas will NOT be available.  Your cars will be useless, the highways will be blocked with thousands of people with the same idea as you.  Local roads will have problems and also be impassable in some places.  Your old Honda can't go offroad or drive over 200 miles without fuel.  (Even less because that old Honda can't carry much and the gas mileage will be way less.)  Don't think for a second that you can just fill up at any gas station, because there will be no gas.  If everyone has the same plan as you, and figures they will just fill up at some highway reststop along the way, you are screwed.

So anyway, there is only 1 bike on the market that can theoretically drive almost 500 miles LOADED with a full pack (not even including extra fuel) and that is the BMW R1200GS Adventure.  Other people have come to the same conclusion as me and I've spoken to about 15 different BMW dealers recently and there isn't a used one in the entire USA right now...  (Check for yourselves, they last about a day!)  Think about that, people have already come to the same conclusion as I have and there isn't a single BMW Adventure out there used, anywhere!  To get one, you have to spend over $23,000 becaue you have to buy it new.

My second option is Yamaha just came out with a new Dual-Sport model called the Super Tenere which is similar to the BMW however it has a slightly smaller fuel tank and can only go just over 300 miles fully loaded.  It costs about $9,000 less similarly loaded but again, it's not the same as the BMW.  Since the saddle bags are big I could carry extra fuel but that would cut down on how much supplies I can carry with.  Also, the bike can't carry as much weight as the BMW.  I am kinda favoring the Yamaha due to price unless I can get a good deal on a used BMW somehow?  One bad thing is the Yamaha is special order only.  I can't even sit on one just to see how it fits befor I put $500 down.  Even worse is the earthquake and Japanese Tsunami has shut down the factory so even if I put money down now, I'm not gonna see it until November at the earliest or maybe even next year the factory said.  =(

If anyone finds a used 2008 or newer BMW R1200GS Adventure for around $17,000 please let me know.  (I don't care about the non-Adventure model because it has a smaller fuel tank.)

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What about them horses

What about them horses you're ridin' TH?  All terrain, good mileage, carry a load, and you could eat them if necessary ;^).   Maybe not cheaper than that Beemer though......Think that Beemer will go 500 miles off-road with a load?  How many farmers' fences will you have to cut to get where you're going?  How will they feel about that?  Is the GS bulletproof?  For $15-23K maybe an ultralight airplane is the better choice....But I can tell you want the GS- buy it.  Aloha,  Steve.

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Vanityfox451
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Classic BMW R90S For The Taking ...

Tommy,

I'll give you a compromise. When you get off it at the other end of your journey, you aren't just planning on dumping it in a hedge where you stop are you? Whether this bike were old or new, you'd still need spares to maintain it, and they're going to be rare at some point whether old bike or new, too.

Consequently, I can save you roughly $15,000 on a BMW (if this is your thing) with the proven indestructable BMW R90S. Beautifully constructed with hands on easy maintainance with a little (Harry Pellow air cooled ... Smile... ) horse sense, a few choice roadside tools - no gimmics, no bells, no whistles, and more importantly, no bloody fifteen BMW salesmen, who won't be along for the ride when the rare drive hub on your rear wheel collapses as a sealed unit with that impressive rock you hit laterally on a side road with no breakdown cover ... Laughing...

Stuff that can be adjusted for wear tollerance, such as bearing cups that you pack with a little grease and nip up for free-play - bikes that take being dropped that don't snap up cheaply constructed parts built down to a price and not up to a standard are things that'll fully piss you off if you've to dump your stuff and a bike you're both still paying for and heavily invested in at the side of the road and leave behind. As a bonus, having $15,000 extra in your pocket or not hanging about you on finance (with interest) is also going to make your life a darn sight less complicated, cos honestly, if you think the sh*t is going to hit the fan tomorrow you've another thing coming. This whole practice is going to take a number of years to hit, and I guarantee you your bug out bike is gonna sit with you itching to ride it for a couple of years or more of bike payments before you'll actually need it for the excuse you're making right now to buy it.

This is one example of what I mean by indestructably built from Wikipedia

This is an R90S that's just sold on Ebay for $8,400 and worth every penny ...

Alternatively, there's plenty of good usable secondhand bikes from the 90's and 2000's model range that are a hell of a lot cheaper than $23,000 that'll do the job you need easily for a quarter of the price you're willing to pay to keep a BMW salesman feeding his family with his monthly commission. They've been fastidiously maintained by loving all embracing owner's that are nibbling at the barrel in selling their pride and joy because they can nolonger warrant keeping them with this permanent economic downturn making a hole in their pocket that you'll frankly benefit haggling a rediculous price for a top bike running like a Swiss watch.

Like Thatchmo though, I sense you've set your heart on this $23,000 bike with virgin miles in the colour of your choice. Just remember what Chris Martenson has had to say in regard to what drives choices - Fact, Belief, Opinion? Also to add - E.R.O.E.I - Energy Return On Energy Invested ... ???

Best of luck with your heart and head Tommy ...

~ VF ~

Old School Petrol Head ... Cool...

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Vanityfox451
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'69 Porsche 912

Darbikrash,

How the hell could I have known you too have swore violently at the genius that is Porsche ... Laughing...!!! If only I could go back and stop my teenage self from selling that collander of a '69 (watching the road go by at my feet!) 912 I had for a year, complete with a tightly rebuilt and magnificently tidy 356 engine hanging out back with no end float on the fly-wheel that I paid roughly $1300 for years ago, I would continually kick my teenage self in the nuts until I were exhausted!!!!

Thank you for a head up to the world of Harry Pellow. I would have been in awe in his cluttered workshop talking with the God of the air-cooled, having a mind to spread his stuff in every nook and cranny, yet still know where the hell everything was ...

~ VF ~

Disgusted with myself for selling, thirty years man and boy ... Cry ...

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regrets.....

Go easy on yourself VF.  Wait 'till you're 58 years "man and boy".  The bruises on your butt from kicking yourself don't get any fewer....Aloha, Steve.

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Vanityfox451
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Walking Like John Wayne!!!

Thatchmo,

HEE HEE ...Laughing... !!!

I'm Walking like John Wayne!!!!!

Best,

~ VF ~

 

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TommyHolly
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thatchmo wrote: What about
thatchmo wrote:

What about them horses you're ridin' TH?  All terrain, good mileage, carry a load, and you could eat them if necessary ;^).   Maybe not cheaper than that Beemer though......Think that Beemer will go 500 miles off-road with a load?  How many farmers' fences will you have to cut to get where you're going?  How will they feel about that?  Is the GS bulletproof?  For $15-23K maybe an ultralight airplane is the better choice....But I can tell you want the GS- buy it.  Aloha,  Steve.

Horses are not a viable option for an emergency escape but I have looked into it, LOL! 

The Beemer will only go about 330-380 miles offroad will a full load.  That means I would still have to carry a minimal amount of fuel with me.  All the other bikes people have been talking about have a much smaller fuel capacity and total mileage which would cut into my carrying capacity if I had to lug around more fuel with me.

I shouldn't have to cut too many fences because the majority of travel will be on the highway.  There would be instances where I'd be forced to go offroad, and for that I need an all-terrain bike.  The GS isn't bulletproof but nothing is and if bullets were flying, the GS would be the last thing I'd be worried about.  Ultralight airplanes are not an option because they can't hold much weight and the typical total mileage is only 100 nautical miles, far short of anything else we've talked about.  An all-terrain motorcycle is the pretty much the only viable option for any kind of scenario that I can think of so far.  It offers the best range and utility for the cost.

I don't want a GS just to get a GS.  I'm also looking into a Yamaha model that is cheaper (but wih slightly less fuel mileage.)

 

Vanityfox451 wrote:

Tommy,

I'll give you a compromise. When you get off it at the other end of your journey, you aren't just planning on dumping it in a hedge where you stop are you? Whether this bike were old or new, you'd still need spares to maintain it, and they're going to be rare at some point whether old bike or new, too.

Consequently, I can save you roughly $15,000 on a BMW (if this is your thing) with the proven indestructable BMW R90S. Beautifully constructed with hands on easy maintainance with a little (Harry Pellow air cooled ... Smile... ) horse sense, a few choice roadside tools - no gimmics, no bells, no whistles, and more importantly, no bloody fifteen BMW salesmen, who won't be along for the ride when the rare drive hub on your rear wheel collapses as a sealed unit with that impressive rock you hit laterally on a side road with no breakdown cover ... Laughing...

Like Thatchmo though, I sense you've set your heart on this $23,000 bike with virgin miles in the colour of your choice. Just remember what Chris Martenson has had to say in regard to what drives choices - Fact, Belief, Opinion? Also to add - E.R.O.E.I - Energy Return On Energy Invested ... ???

Best of luck with your heart and head Tommy ...

~ VF ~

Old School Petrol Head ... Cool...

At any point that far in the future in which I'd be worried about the availability of spare tires, I'm sure we would have a lot more worse things to worry about.  I'm not planning for a Mad Max long term end of the world scenario...LOL!! 

While I appreciate the recommendation of the BMW R90S, it fails the top priorities on my list of necessities.

1. near 500-mile Fuel Range, 2. Carrying capacity, 3. All terrain capability

I do not have my heart set on a new BMW with virgin miles?  I've frequently said I've searched the entire USA for a used R1200GS Adventure and they don't exist.  (And when they do go on the market, they only last a day at a fair price.)  As you can see, I am interested in the most return on energy in my investment.  I have priorities and certain goals in mind which have nothing to do specifically with a BMW, but I've already disqualified almost all other options.

So this is where I'm currently at.  I'm not going to buy a new $23,000 bike.  I've narrowed down the selection to one of 2 options.  A well kept, used BMW R1200GS Adventure that I can be at around $16,000 out the door with taxes and everything... OR a brand new Yamaha "Super Tenere".  (They haven't even come out yet and I have no idea if I can fit on one because there isn't any to sit on.  Also the gas milage is better but the tank is smaller so this would have a slightly less range but MUCH better price.  I have to wait until Japan starts shipping them when the factory starts up in late November.)  Either way, I'm waiting unfortunately.  While I feel I'd be taking a risk taking out any kind of loan right now, the necessity of having some form of emergency transportation for an area like Chicago is worth a small loan. Let's hope an emergency of the type where I'd need a bike like this doesn't happen in the next 6 months.

thatchmo's picture
thatchmo
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 14 2008
Posts: 432
First things first....

Hey Tommy.  I'm getting back to the root of things.  Do you currently ride and have experience off-roading a LARGE motorcylce?  I haven't been able to tell if you're gonna just store this bike until TSHTF then blast out of the BATcave like hell on wheels with your gear and a plan, or this will be a well-used and understood tool for your future.  Like any tool, for it to function for your maximum benefit, you need to be proficient in it's use.  Also, taking a long-or short- bike ride is excellent for clearing the brain and bringing a smile to your face, something we can all use more of in these times of uncertanty.  For you other folks, go for a sail, or horse ride, or a decent hike in the woods.  But I digress.....

So where are we (you) now?  The GS- unavailable and damned costly.  The Super Tenere (what's that mean?)- unavailable for the forseeable future.  So here's my suggestion- since you asked for it :^)-  Buy an economical XR650- they have shredded Baja for crying out loud!  Play with it a little to see how it might work for you.  If positive, fit it out with the equipment you require- larger tank, panniers, suspension, machine gun mount, etc.  and have a usable tool NOW that costs 1/3 of your other options.  If a GS or Yamaha comes up later that works better for you, you can sell the tricked out XR to someone else who sees its value- maybe for a profit.  In the mean time, you get to go riding now and improve your riding skills.  I'd still like to suggest revisiting Jaeger's post on parts availability and simplicity.  The GS is designed- or at least marketed- as a machine to go hundreds of thousands of miles.  You're paying for that. Me thinks the future bodes ill for that type of extravagance. I still think your bike plan has merit.

OR....you could get a crappy old 4 cyl Porsche and set it up rally-style and hit the hills.  I hear you  can put an extra sweater in the trunk....Aloha, Steve.  Curator, Steve's Home for Wayward Motorcycles

TommyHolly's picture
TommyHolly
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 9 2010
Posts: 90
Good questions Thatchmo,  I

Good questions Thatchmo,  I should of had that info as standard...

Yes, I have about 20 years of experience riding motorcycles on and off the trails.  I've driven large and small bikes.  The R1200GS is the tallest bike I've ever been on though, (it feels like you are on stilts which is a negative thing at slower speeds.)  The new 2012 Yamaha Super Tenere is a new slightly smaller bike that is coming to America this year for special order only.  It was supposed to be here already but the Japanese Tsunami shut down production.  The Super Tenere is like a cross between the BMW F800GS (which I like better if not for lack of the larger gas tank of the Adventure) and the Adventure itself.  I haven't even sat on the Yamaha yet so I'm hoping its the solution to my problem.  All the bikes I have been looking at can carry a great deal of weight and have a suspension which can handle it.  I've ridden across the US a few times and Europe twice so I know exactly what I need.

I currently live just SW of Chicago and you should see the traffic jams just on normal days.  We had a huge snowstorm about 2 months ago where it looked like some future apocolypse movie where people just abandoned their cars and many roads were impassable.  I currently have an old 1987 Honda 550 that runs great for the mean time so that's a useable tool that will get me 200 miles without much extra gas or supplies though.

Parts availability is decent for the BMW since it's been around for 30 years now.  The Yamaha is even better because most parts are from mass produced bikes already on the market.  The BMW is designed to go thousands of miles without any problems.  If you've seen the documentary "Long Way Round" with Ewan McGregor, I'd recommend it.  BMW firmly established itself as exactly the type of bike that can fill the requirements I've mentioned.  Obiwan Kenobi there rode across the entire world with very little problems.

As far as the Porche, I already have a 2001 Jeep Cherokee that I specially had made for me at the factory with every off-road option available.  That snowstorm changed my mind about it's usefullness in a long term emergency here.  Basically, if you live near a crowded city, there is no way you are leaving on anything that has 4 wheels.  Some people disgruntled at their situation intentionally blocked the road with their abandoned cars!!  I saw much, much worse in South America in Bolivia during the "Water Wars" riots where people intentionally tried to block roads during emergencies, making them impassable.  Just remember, if you are banking on some form of 4 wheel vehicle and a ready supply of gasoline along the way in an emergency, so is every other average person out there who didn't think ahead... that's a recipe for disaster.

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
Cabin Fever ...

Mmm ... Undecided...!!! Thatchmo,

You're giving me idea's!!!

Clapper flat-four 1600 VW kipper, running a four into one with a water-proofing washing-up glove snapped tight on the dizzy with elastic-bands - cherry bomb 'n' extension pipe for river roaming - bolt in a 9" whip mast an' a CB rig for comm's - home-made 2" by 2" ration roof-rack - 8 x 25 litre jerries for juice - tensioned four-bar welded notch-raised front beam - lock the rear beam up a few splines and bolt on some tall coil-over's 'n' fat 'n' ugly all terrain's - a toilet brush to paint it the colour of our choice ( I'm thinking maybe khaki green or desert yellow ... Wink... ???) - snap rack for a .308, bullet belt an' a coupla grenades to hand - supplant a fat-f*ck off-molar-crunching-manically-laughing-glass-crator-mushroom-cloud-white-knuckle-bandana-wearing-Kamikaze-psychotic-grin - we could be a growling pot-hole munching distant cloud of dust, building two including the fuel for well under a $1,000 bucks ... We could blend in - dissapear - whaduyasayyy!!!

Tempted ... Laughing... ???

... 'course, there's always the Rondotrailer ...

~ VF ~

Poet's picture
Poet
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 21 2009
Posts: 1891
Mad Max Escape

Oh, we're sharing videos now?

Mad Max Road Battle

Poet

thatchmo's picture
thatchmo
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 14 2008
Posts: 432
Ay Ay Ay....

OMG, I've created a monster!  You're on your own VF, but sent me pix!  I'll keep my Suzuki Sidekick with the Honda CT110 mounted on back....

Tommy, sounds like your plan is thoughtfully developed.   Aloha, Steve.

 

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
Mad Max Road Battle ...
Poet wrote:

Oh, we're sharing videos now?

Mad Max Road Battle

Poet

Exactly where I'm at Poet ... Laughing... !!!

~ VF ~

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
Road Kill ...
thatchmo wrote:

OMG, I've created a monster!  You're on your own VF, but sent me pix!  I'll keep my Suzuki Sidekick with the Honda CT110 mounted on back....

Tommy, sounds like your plan is thoughtfully developed.   Aloha, Steve.

OOPS ... Embarassed... !!!

I'll pm you the finished beast Steve ... [cough!!]

Tommy,

I second Steve in saying that your plans are thoughtfully developed. Ducking out of this thread before I become road kill ...

~ VF ~

 

TommyHolly's picture
TommyHolly
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 9 2010
Posts: 90
OK, after a few years of

OK, after a few years of looking online constantly, the stars aligned and I just bought one!!!  I happened to go on Craigslist and saw a new BMW Dealer listed exactly what I was looking for...

2008 R1200GS Adventure, Black, 9,000 miles with all options (Except the stupid tire pressure monitor, Electronic Suspension, and traction control) but with BMW aluminum side boxes.  They sold it to me for $14,650!!!  The BMW dealership just opened and I was their first customer.  After I saw the ad, I was there in an hour at about 3pm.  As I was looking at it, 4 other people showed up (thinking they were going to buy it when they got off work at 4pm, LOL) and about 20 people called on it while I was there, (yet they still gave me about $1,500 off the asking price? LOL)  I can seriously sell this right now for $17,500 all day long.  I consider myself lucky I found one and even more lucky I got something lower than my price range.

[IMG]http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q50/TommyHolly/MynewBMW.jpg[/IMG]

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q50/TommyHolly/MynewBMW.jpg

Hmm?  I can't post a picture of it??  Guess you'll just have to click on tthe link.

P.S. Love the Mad Max movies!!

thatchmo's picture
thatchmo
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 14 2008
Posts: 432
oh man!

All that postin' fer nuttin?  Jus' funnin' Tommy.  That is one sweet lookin' scoot.  Congrats on the killer deal too.  What's the rate on that loan?  Aloha, Steve.

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
2008 R1200GS BMW Adventure In Black!!!

Tommy,

That is one kicking bike!!!

Very nice find, and I'm well impressed!!!

I followed every episode of Long Way Round like a balm for my petrol headed itchy footed itinerant travelling soul. Was it really almost seven years ago??? : -

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5538321375706386968#

Did I say "Well Done!!!" Tommy???

~ VF ~

elsinga's picture
elsinga
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 8 2008
Posts: 34
Very nice ride TH! I own a

Very nice ride TH! I own a 1997 R1100GS, which get's me 250 miles down the road on it's 25 liter (6.25 gallon?), so 40MPG if I did the math correctly.

TommyHolly's picture
TommyHolly
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 9 2010
Posts: 90
Yeah I almost gave up hope

Yeah I almost gave up hope that I couldn't find one at a good price!!  I made this thread because I was ready to just break down and buy a new one because there are no used ones...and when there are, some guy like me drives to the dealer at 100mph hoping to get there before anyone else?  Who the hell can afford $25 with tax for a motorcycle???

I absolutely love the Long Way Round show.  I've only seen a few episodes and just started watching a few on YouTube when I have spare time.  The next project I have is stocking bags with pre-packed emergency supplies for a "Long Way Round" type situation.  I have half the items I need but it's gonna take a while to find the rest.  A great video I found is by this guy named "Sergie" from Argentina who's been travelling around the world on his motorcycle for YEARS!!  Check it out:

(OK I've tried 3 times to embed videos like you guys have?  This site seriously needs to upgrade to newer forum software like vBulletin2.0 or something like that...)

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