NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

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DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
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NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

Interesting report from Bill Still.  The end of NASA could mean the end of our commitment to advanced technology as the international banking cartel sucks the life out of America. 

Society is moving backwards because it is unable to collectively figure out that our nation does not need to borrow money from private banks since we have the sovereign power to issue it for free.  In this strange paradox, advanced technology dies because people cannot figure out something this simple.

Larry

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

Hi Larry,

We can bailout the big banks, but we can't fund Nasa, unbelievable. I live in the heart of the Nasa's Johnson Space Center community and the collective depression over this funding re-appropriation is devastating. The viability of my local economy is really threatened by these politics.

Ph.D's delivering pizzas, while the bankers in NYC are enjoying their bonuses. Hell, the collective Christmas bonuses of the top 5 insolvent financial firms could have funded the Constilation and Shuttle programs for several years. Pathetic.

 

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

 

Not to worry Komrads

 

The government  is looking to go for broke on "correct"  projects such as:

Social Security

Medicare

Medicaid

New and Improved Health Care "reform"

AIG

Foreign Aid

Iraq

Afghanistan

GM

TARP

TALF

Pork Barrel cash for all party member requests.

 

 

If only  Congress  had the ability to print money itself,   voila!        We will have a new and improved government.

  Then   we could fix and expand all of the above pronto!          Read my lips:    No New Inflation.

I say remove Ben from  the US Treasury payroll now and put Pelosi in.

 

 

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

Larry -

Great read, in a "that really sucks" framing.  Thanks.

You have a good grip on history - can you recall any other time in US or any other country when a forward leaning technological pursuit (like NASA) was terminated preventing the spiral development that would have resulted?

I can't think of anything quickly. 

Looking back to the Manhattan Project and (for better or worse) all of the new sciences and applications that followed, I can't for the life of me figure out why all of these Ivy League idiots (apologies to strabes) running the country would take a chain saw to NASA.

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

As much as it pains me to say it, in the wake of our current fiscal crisis I could accept cuts and tough limits on the NASA budget... if all other gov't spending did likewise.  But the simple fact is that for those in charge, the space program is simply not a priority, unlike the too big-to-fail financial giants and banks.  I don't think deficit spending leading to bankruptcy is a good thing in any case, but if it's already inevitable I would at least like to see that last splurge of cash go towards something tangible and of some potential benefit.  Better to be broke with something to show for it (whether it's an improved space launch/exploration capability or an improved energy grid or better mass transit) than to be broke without a proverbial pot to piss in. 

I have to admit I'm biased on this subject.  I turned my life upside down and borrowed a painful amount of money to get my engineering degree in this field, and NASA is/was one of the places I had my heart set to work for.  When I got my degree in '05 there wasn't much available on the entry level side, so I accepted a job elsewhere and figured with a few years of experience I'll have much better prospects.  Yet between then and now NASA's prospects have only gotten worse, and worsening job prospects outside of NASA have got me now working in a largely unfulfilling job that's barely related to my degree.  As Jeff said there are lots of unemployed engineers out there that are far more experienced and qualified than I am who are looking for the same sort of work (or any other kind really), and I expect this will only get worse as time goes on.  I am certainly lucky that I at least have a job even if the job satisfaction is lacking, but it's still disheartening to know that my chances of pursuing my career goals in my country is remote.  Most of the remaining opportunities seem to be defense-related, and while I do believe there are some defense programs, space-related and otherwise, that are worthwhile, it simply is not what I want to build my career on.  NASA in it's current form is far from perfect but it still does amazing things, and could be so much better if it was truly made a national priority (and if politicians didn't meddle quite so much in its operations).

Sadly I think Bill Still is right, and that many people like myself will leave for greener pastures.  It's sad that the nation showing the greatest amount of determination and progress in advancing their space program, China, also happens to have zero appreciation for personal freedoms/liberties and a horrendous track record of human rights abuses.  Not the kind of place in which I wish to live or donate my time and energy, yet I'm sure some engineers would accept a job in China.  Many more would jump at the chance to work in the space programs in the EU or Japan or India.  And as much as it pains me to say it, if I see the right opportunity I might end up being one of them.

- Nickbert

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

wow....... trillions to fund all the crap that should never have been funded in the first place, and nothing for NASA.

The kicker to me is that it is being funneled over to "proving that global warming is real..."

Wow......

Nickbert,

I gotta say, if I was in your shoes having the degree and/or an extensive engineering backround, I would absolutly jump at a shot to work over seas.....provided it was a decent opportunity, and considering whats happening with NASA it wouldnt surprise me at all if many of the PhD's did the same. Infact, some may feel it is a stretch, but, in my eyes, it would be the next logical place to look for this field of work.

 

Mike

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

The goal is not to prove global warming is real but to better understand global climate change. I would have thought that was far more important than manned space flight.

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

I agree with Nickbert. Although NASA provides some wonderful spinoffs and technological advances, I'm not sure all of the missions are cost effective. They remain, however, far more cost effective than the most "efficient" bailout program...If all the bailouts and welfare for the corrupt programs were ended and we were still looking at NASA with BHO's "surgical scalpel," I would restructure the program to work towards a unified goal and an achievement that is also visibly noteworthy. I think the greatest advancements and successes of NASA were in the 1960s when there was a unified goal of putting a man on the moon. We succeeded, and didn't seem to have so many problems with converting English <-> metric back then. I like the idea of a Mars goal, but I think we should focus NASA on that (very visible and very worthy) goal.

Like Nickbert, I'm a recent engineering grad. It is programs like a Mars mission that excites students to become the next great engineers. Concentrated funding here will develop new technologies the same way that the Manhattan Project developed our knowledge of nuclear physics. I only graduated a few years ago, but if I were just entering engineering school in the USA now, I would enter with a vision to find a good job overseas. I'm not talking about "bugging out," I'm talking about just following high quality, interesting engineering jobs. Our economy is so gutted at this point with such contractions in manufacturing and infrastructure that not only are blue collar jobs lost, but engineering talent is rapidly disappearing as well.

I know that a great deal of undergrad engineers are choosing to get MBAs for the explicit purpose of entering the financial "industry." The equations are the same in both, but GS pays far more than GM. Not to toot my own horn here, but is this really the message that America wants to be sending to our upcoming technical experts??? Do we want to concentrate international finance even more within our borders at the expense of dissipating our engineering talents??? Even if we do benefit from financial services, can more money make more oil come out of the ground when all is said and done??? Was this recession caused because we had a euphoric increase in the number of engineers and exotic but unnecessary engineering innovations??? Or does this description apply to finance???

FWIW, a Nov. 2009 Gallup poll indicated that 62% of the public believed engineers had "very high" or "high" ethical standards. The corresponding number for stockbrokers was 9%. Members of Congress were 9% as well, for reference. The relevant link is here:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/1654/honesty-ethics-professions.aspx

 

 

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

nickbert - when I was young, NASA caught the imagination of many who no doubt moved to the sciences as a result.  Exploring space was an adventure and it seemed to be our responsibility to move mankind forward into the future. 

JAG - not only are jobs lost but darned good ones. 

Dogs - I guess lots of civilizations have collapsed quickly after being beaten in conquest.  Ours was different, the conquest of our civilization came from within.  In a way, the new health care bill is related as people are secondary to monopoly.  I think many doctors will leave and technical innovation will slow to a trickle.

that1guy - it's darned hard to understand.  We don't even pretend to discuss priorities anymore as governBank dictates more and more.  I suggest we stop all foreign aid to Israel, Egypt, Pakistan, etc., if we are this poor.

Or better yet, fire the Fed and create and issue our own money.  There is no logical reason for a national debt or federal income tax.  There is no reason for young Americans coming into the world heavily in debt.  I hope many stop and think about that after this important Still report.

Larry

 

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

Larry - Of course we should fire the Fed and issue debt free money, but when JFK tried this, he was errr, fired. Fear is a major hurdle the public will need to help politicians with by showing strong support. That is why grass rooters - like you - are needed.

Before I took the red pill, there was something that intuitively bothered me about all of our financial aid programs to Africa. I was aware of all the poverty and suffering within our own country and all of the many deficiencies we had. Helping Africa didn't seem selfless to me, it seemed senseless and masochistic to ourselves. Further, something about all of our outflows directed by unscrupulous politicians had me skeptical. Even mother Teresa needed to meet her basic needs before she could help others. Perhaps nations are the same way. Don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful to give of yourself to assist others.

But at a national agenda level, I have big questions as to how the same politicians that aid Africa are also the same politicians that provide "aid" to Lloyd Blankfein and company. Oops, that's right, they are doing God's work. Funny that "God's work" looks so much different when Mother Teresa does it. Also, how can we justify using our tax money to assist people overseas when 1/4 of adults in America are on food stamps and California has tent cities springing up?? What we are doing is akin to ignoring our family in the hospital with life threatening illness in order to donate all of our time and savings to the hobo across the street. While we could try to argue that we are doing something good, I believe that we have a primary responsibility to our own families (and that the national level our own nation).

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

I agree with you on this Mike and have often wondered where we would be if we cleaned up our own back yard so the saying goes.

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report
Mike Pilat wrote:

snip

Before I took the red pill, there was something that intuitively bothered me about all of our financial aid programs to Africa. I was aware of all the poverty and suffering within our own country and all of the many deficiencies we had. Helping Africa didn't seem selfless to me, it seemed senseless and masochistic to ourselves. Further, something about all of our outflows directed by unscrupulous politicians had me skeptical. Even mother Teresa needed to meet her basic needs before she could help others. Perhaps nations are the same way. Don't get me wrong, I think it's wonderful to give of yourself to assist others.

Mike -

Don't you think there is enough of a distinction between those in Africa (and elsewhere) who genuinely need help and those in the US who think they need help because of the entitlement programs and nanny state created by the political machine?

I would much rather send my money overseas to build a well or a school or a church in a village that really needs it than to feed some government mandated entitlement program in this country that does a disservice to those it supposedly "benefits".

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

Yes, Dogs, of course there's a distinction. I'm just not so sure that our big government aid programs are really doing much to help those other people over there. I'm not talking about handing out money to America per se, but perhaps spending (or saving!) what is necessary to create a system in our own nation that is fair. I don't believe in huge government entitlements, but I do think that if we are going to give anything away, perhaps we ought to get our house in order first. A lot of people are in financial problems here at least partially due to a corrupt financial system that overtly and covertly plunders wealth. I The proper role of government is to protect the citizens' rights and root out fraud and abuse. This is not happening right now.

Someone in Africa that is willing to work and enhance their wealth is probably more deserving of a "stimulus" than Joe Sixpack who bought something he couldn't afford and simply wants to drink more beer and watch more American Idol and eat more Big Macs (no offense to anyone). But frankly, maybe we could be helping both if we cut out various bailout programs? The message is just tainted in that we give money to GS and then also give it to Africa, but the person "in the middle" - the US middle class - is (apparently) the least deserving. Something doesn't add up with this. You only get money if you are uber powerful/wealthy or uber poor, but you get shafted if you are in the middle? Then again, I suppose the collective nation ends up with the government it deserves...ouch.

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report
Mike Pilat wrote:

 Then again, I suppose the collective nation ends up with the government it deserves...ouch.

You could give H. L. Mencken a run for his money.  Cool

I have little confidence that the government clowns running the show have the ability to spearhead the effort to get our house in order.  It's going to be up to "us".

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

Great post Mike...I'm on the same page.  Charity is a wonderful thing but it should be optional.  When you take someone else's money for the charity you deem fit you are stealing.  When you take the money of future generations and give it away you are taxing without representation - this is un-American.

If people could keep more of their own money they would have more to donate as they choose.  Why is it that people expect government to make all our decisions, including our favorite charities. 

Dogs - I appreciate your willingness to give and know you also freely give your time for those in need.  You do so on your own, that is true charity.

NASA should continue, it's too important to stop.  Karl Denninger wrote a great piece about financing our debt (forum link).  We don't need the banks as they are an oppressive parasitic load and now they are dictating austerity measures that are only needed if we want to remain debt slaves.

Larry

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

A large proportion of 'foreign aid' consists of weapons and military hardware. Another big piece consists of contracts to favored domestic firms to build infrastructure or provide services of some kind or another in another country. The bulk of it is 'strategic' rather than 'humanitarian' in nature. Aid that actually is intended to help people develop sustainable economies or reduce human suffering is a minor component. It would be difficult to find political support for aid programs if it were otherwise.

Effective aid - whether foreign or domestic - should always be targeted to improving the longterm prospects of people - an investment in people. Aid based on strategic objectives treats populations as game pieces and generally does not end up improving the lives of the nominal recipients.

Investments in NASA, like investing in education, adequate healthcare, or supporting sustainable economic development, pays dividends back to the general population. The TARP funds just rewarded bad/destructive behavior thus encouraging more of the same - and at huge cost to the general population...

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

Yeah, I mean that's a point too. I'm not looking to the gov. to fix this. The odds are 1000:1 against that happening. That being the case (or, rather the assumption), without being a doomer, I think the best thing that could happen is rapid collapse that results in a flushing of the system. Unfortunately, people will get hurt here in an acute sense. But the corruption of the present malaise is doing the same thing in a subtle frog-boiling way and is a cancer that is ultimately terminal as well. Instead of getting dogged (no pun) by unresponsiveness, stalling, and minor malfunctions that drag out and metastasize forever, perhaps we need the "Blue Screen Of Death" so we know it's time to reboot...

Some of these debates are somewhat senseless anyway as they relate to dollars - items that are fundamentally disconnected from utility or value. We have a debt we mathematically can't repay. That being the case, and the inevitability of systemic failure, perhaps it doesn't matter so much what we do now unless it affects the new system that will be constructed.

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Re: NASA and Big Banks - Still Report

I wonder sometimes if the government (the people) should have taken over the banks. Stepped in and said we are taking this over. I mean we bought it anyway by lending it to the banks. And a very few walked away with huge profits. Then the we the people step in and decide as a people to invest in the people moving industry, the power grid industry and many other (industries) call it green if you like lending the money to business and invest our time and energy with efficient systems that work. That is what we as American are supposed to be about, and not in a naive way. It just seems so simple to me. We have all this knowledge today and we really do not seem to use it.

We have to start somewhere. Pull out of the wars. Cut all oversees spending. Sorry we have to sit down and see where we are at. That's what you do in your own household. Start with what you bring in and finish with you put out. How many jobs could be created building a rail system that is unheard of. We have the knowledge and resources to do it. Bring those men back and put them to work building something. The energy grid come on, we have been shooting ourselves in the foot with this for years. You know it kind of reminds me of the Katrina incident. Remember!. They told them for years the New Orleans could not take above a Cat 3 without serious damage. And we did nothing. They have been saying for years that our electric grid needs to be updated. What are we doing? Talking about what might happen to our financial system because of the money that the government is spending. (We the people)

We the people have to get a hold of this country here and now. I just will not accept that there is nothing that we can do about this. 1000:1 odds. H*ll!  Now the only way is to get involved get up and vote these people out and get some new people in office and change the way the government  does things. I think a lot of you here need to run for office or support someone that you have studied and know thinks the same way you do. The uprising in this country has to be done legal and honestly because that is who we are as Americans. We have as a people always have had what it takes to get a job done. The only past we should be looking at is the courage and fortitude that has brought this nation to where it is today and where it is going to be tomorrow.

It really is up to us to take this country back through the election system that we complacently turned over to others as we were trying to make our way in this world. How do you like those odds!

My favorite saying, poem, inspirational:

When things go wrong, as they sometimes will,
When the road you're trudging seems all uphill,
When the funds are low and the debts are high,
And you want to smile, but you have to sigh,
When care is pressing you down a bit,
Rest, if you must, but don't you quit.

Life is queer with its twists and turns,
As every one of us sometimes learns,
And many a failure turns about,
When he might have won had he stuck it out;
Don't give up though the pace seems slow--
You may succeed with another blow.

Often the goal is nearer than,
It seems to a faint and faltering man,
Often the struggler has given up,
When he might have captured the victor's cup,
And he learned too late when the night slipped down,
How close he was to the golden crown.

Success is failure turned inside out--
The silver tint of the clouds of doubt,
And you never can tell how close you are,
It may be near when it seems so far,
So stick to the fight when you're hardest hit--
It's when things seem worst that you must not quit.

- Author unknown

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