My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

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My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

To put it in a simple format I see 3 areas that have set Chris apart and above the rest:

1--VISION

2--VALUE SYSTEM

2--COMPASsION FOR READERS, SUBSCRIBERS AND HUMANITY IN GENERAL

From what I have seen thus far it is apparent to me that Erik shares the "Vision", however, he is worlds apart from what I saw from Chris as a regular reader from March 2008 until Oct. 2008, in terms of Value System and Compassion. 

What is Chris' Value system since October..?  I don't know...I can only assume it now matches Eriks entrepreneurial businessman value system, which I find pushy, arrogant and very unattractive in general.  See his posts under the Hero thread and his Value system and level of Compassion are both very evident.

I can't imagine that this is the image Chris wants to portray.....but then again I can only draw assumptions from what I'm seeing and reading on this site...

While I'm at it--a BIG KUDOS to Dovas!!  You are doing a terrific job on the Daily Digest in terms of quality and quantity!! 

 

 

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ckessel
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Posts: 483
Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion
jdb123 wrote:

To put it in a simple format I see 3 areas that have set Chris apart and above the rest:

1--VISION

2--VALUE SYSTEM

2--COMPASsION FOR READERS, SUBSCRIBERS AND HUMANITY IN GENERAL

From what I have seen thus far it is apparent to me that Erik shares the "Vision", however, he is worlds apart from what I saw from Chris as a regular reader from March 2008 until Oct. 2008, in terms of Value System and Compassion. 

What is Chris' Value system since October..?  I don't know...I can only assume it now matches Eriks entrepreneurial businessman value system, which I find pushy, arrogant and very unattractive in general.  See his posts under the Hero thread and his Value system and level of Compassion are both very evident.

I can't imagine that this is the image Chris wants to portray.....but then again I can only draw assumptions from what I'm seeing and reading on this site...

While I'm at it--a BIG KUDOS to Dovas!!  You are doing a terrific job on the Daily Digest in terms of quality and quantity!! 

 

 

For what it is worth I have to say I disagree. I have only been a member for a few weeks but I do not see " this divergence " of his value system or level of compassion as regards the CM viewpoint. I think that each of us needs to recognise that as individuals we all have different responses to things and that is OK.  What is not OK is reducing the effectiveness of the group by publicly making less of anothers actions.Compliments such as those to Dovas are great.

I for one greatly appreciate anyone willing to devote their time and energy toward the goal of salvaging this planet and all that lives here. In reality, anyone contributing to this site (including yourself) I would consider shares that goal. I would like to see our efforts spent on getting the job done.

That said, like it or not, getting the message (and the possible solutions) disseminated is going to take time and money and I haven't seen any "bailout" funds coming CM's way. Chris has gotten the message created. Now it must move far and wide.  This is less about image than plain hard work. Thank you Erik for helping.

Coop 

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cmartenson
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Thank you Erik!

I need people here to understand something about Erik and what he's brought to this effort and, by extension, your future.

Once upon a time, about 5 months ago,  I was struggling to complete the Crash Course while also being a father and 100% responsible for every aspect of the website which was floundering badly after an ill-advised platform switch.

I was wearing too many hats and, worse, I was carrying the entire weight of the project.  What I mean by that is I would get all manner of emails pleading for something from me.  Free advice, my sources, or perhaps my ear as one heart-rending story after another landed in my inbox.  To me this was like weight, psychic weight, that I did not know how to unload.  I felt responsible somehow for trying to fix and attend to all these problems and issues and suggestions.

And all this while my bank account was depleting rapidly and the site was burning money like you would not believe.  My internal belief system prevents me from charging for this work that I do.

So along, out of the blue, comes this guy named Erik who said, "how can I help?" and it was as if a great weight lifted off of my shoulders.

First he sent money to help spur the completion of the Crash Course and allowing me to find and afford the quality technical help I so badly needed. Then he offered to take over some of the hats I was wearing.  He was (and remains) relentless about clearing things off my plate so that I can focus on content, writing, and developing new video chapters.

I cannot control the fact that some people have reacted negatively to his style, but I can tell you where this site would be without him.

  1. You would not have a DVD at cost.  He managed that entire process and I could not have done it as fast or as well.
  2. Our translator project would not be nearly as far along.  He managed the various arrangements and agreements necessary to get that up and running.
  3. I would still be personally responding to every email at great detriment to my other efforts and (probably) overall energy level.
  4. This site would not be as nearly developed or as momentum-rich as it currently is.

And he did all of this with absolutely no expectation of current or future gain.  None.  Zero. All of his focus on money is to correct for my own abysmal failure to look out for myself in this regard and you should not see his writing as "money focused" so much as "Chris protective".   He's trying to assure that this site becomes and remains self-sustaining.

And of all the things that he could be doing with his time and his life, he's pretty much full time on this project.  This alone sets him far apart 

Lastly, I need to assure people that I am not corruptible or changeable by Erik or anybody.  Whichever volunteers come aboard are people I will welcome and trust and rely on but I am who I am.  At 46 years of age, what you see is what you get.

I owe a gigantic round of thanks to Erik.

And if you value the Crash Course and this site, so do you.

Thank you Erik! 

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gregroberts
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

Thanks Eric.

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jrf29
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

Hallelujah.  And this hogwash of trying to fractionate the PeakProsperity.com staff and community has got to stop.  It is a childish and fundimentally unfair means of criticism.  Everybody on PeakProsperity.com pulls an oar. If anybody has a beef about something, the proper way to address it is to direct the complaint to the entire PeakProsperity.com group as a whole, or to an individual member in their capacity as a representative of the entire staff.

Chris has the right to choose the people who will help him, and their presence must be interpreted as license by him to represent his ideas and the website in general.  Their mere presence is an indicia of authority from Chris.  Chris is not a lost and wandering helpless waif who must be protected from evil influences which will corrupt him. He is a grown adult, and an accomplished research scientist and businessman, and his ability to know what his own message is, and who is--and is not---to represent it ought not to be disparaged.

If he has chosen any person to represent this website, then that person deserves the presumption that they represent Chris, and therefore any general complaints about the direction of the site ought to be addressed to the Chris Martenson staff as a whole.

That's how I feel.

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Brandon
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

All my interactions with Erik have been reasonable, honest, and passionate.  He has also been kind, and able to admit failure. Anyone who can maintain these things most of the time, even while sometimes operating in "business mode", has a spot around my table, and is somebody I feel that I can build something with.

Thanks Erik.

Anonymous's picture
jdb123 (not verified)
Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

Again--lets not confuse vision and hard work with values integrity and compassion!!  Erik is a hard worker I am sure---AND he shares Chris' vision.....

However, I feel, and the email exchanges Erik had with Kroger provided the evidence, that, in fact, Erik values, integrity and compassion do not agree with what I saw from CM.com in the past and in an appropriate forum notation was just spelling out why I felt and feel that Erik has brought I great deal of downside baggage along with his $5,000 and hard work.

I would quote the specifics but the 59 post thread in the HERO article have now been now been censored down to 29 posts.  I don't think anyone on this site can be proud of that...can they...? 

Is this topic being screened now before being allowed to post...?  I guess I just don't know....and that's part of the problem.

I do not nor do I feel that anyone on here thinks Chris is corrupted in any way...although he did just authorize censorship of posts that met all of the "guidelines" ...hmmmm.  I just hope Chris isn't thanking Erik sometime in the future for starting his web site on its own crash course......

Anonymous's picture
jdb123 (not verified)
Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion
ckessel wrote:

For what it is worth I have to say I disagree. I have only been a member for a few weeks but I do not see " this divergence " of his value system or level of compassion as regards the CM viewpoint. Coop 

Coop---In all fairness...How can a subscriber for four weeks offer a worthwhile viewpoint assessing an eight month evaluation???

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Nichoman
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion
jdb123 wrote:

To put it in a simple format I see 3 areas that have set Chris apart and above the rest:

1--VISION

2--VALUE SYSTEM

3--COMPASSION FOR READERS, SUBSCRIBERS AND HUMANITY IN GENERAL

 

Found Value System shapes your Vision...put it 1. ..then put vision 2.

 

Nichoman 

ckessel's picture
ckessel
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Posts: 483
Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion
jdb123 wrote:
ckessel wrote:

For what it is worth I have to say I disagree. I have only been a member for a few weeks but I do not see " this divergence " of his value system or level of compassion as regards the CM viewpoint. Coop 

Coop---In all fairness...How can a subscriber for four weeks offer a worthwhile viewpoint assessing an eight month evaluation???

jdb123,

Consider it a worthwhile viewpoint of a four week evaluation. I have had the opportunity to review a good deal of the posts on the site and they seem to cover the time period you mention. Have I missed something?

The point here jdb123 is that we have a lot of work to do and it is difficult to accomplish anything if we spend our time with squabbles. Could you just give Eric a call and work it out.

 

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Erik T.
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion
jdb123 wrote:

I would quote the specifics but the 59 post thread in the HERO article have now been now been censored down to 29 posts.  I don't think anyone on this site can be proud of that...can they...? 

Is this topic being screened now before being allowed to post...?  I guess I just don't know....and that's part of the problem.

I do not nor do I feel that anyone on here thinks Chris is corrupted in any way...although he did just authorize censorship of posts that met all of the "guidelines" ...hmmmm.  I just hope Chris isn't thanking Erik sometime in the future for starting his web site on its own crash course......

Come on, jdb123, this is really getting ridiculous now. Nothing has been censored. At the request of the participants, someone else on staff moved several posts that were never appropriate for the Heroes in Action thread to a more appropriate forum topic. I had nothing to do with it, and the action was taken by someone else on our staff in reaction to numerous requests of participants who recognized that it was inappropriate for a thread intended to honor someone who has made an extraordinary contribution to this cause.

Nobody is screening anything, and frankly the only problem that I see here is your continuing insistence on posting divisive personal attacks against my character, which contribute nothing to the mission of this site. 

Let me be clear: My purpose in being here is to promote the messages of the Crash Course as far and wide as I possibly can. Our goal for 2009 is to have at least 5,000,000 people view the Crash Course message, and I make no apologies for using my business skills to advance that goal. If you'd like to help that cause, and have concerns about my approach or style, I'll be happy to seriously consider any constructive feedback that you might choose to offer. But frankly, by continuing this campaign of personal assaults on my character while offering no constructive suggestions, you make yourself extremely easy to ignore.

I was busy arranging an in-person meeting with the founder of a national organization that promotes green initiatives when I came across this latest missive. I felt an obligation to respond only because I don't think it's prudent to leave false accusations (referring to your absurd assertion that censorship has occurred here) visible to newcomers to this site.

This whole thing began when I took offense to something I thought was posted in an inappropriate place, and made the mistake of engaging that person in a direct debate about his statements, rather than asking him to move it to a more appropriate place. I have already apologized publicly for that lapse of judgment, and most of the community seems to feel it's time to put this to rest and get back to the work of promoting the messages of the crash course. But jdb123, you seem hell-bent on not letting this go, and seeking out as many different places as you can find to assert your critical views and personal attacks on my character, without offering any constructive suggestions relating to how we might be more effective in promoting the messages of the Crash Course.

I'm going back to work on promoting the Crash Course, and I ask everyone here to join me in moving past this critical exchange and focus on constructive discussion about how we can advance our cause.

Erik Townsend
Business Manager
PeakProsperity.com

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Nichoman
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion
ErikTownsend wrote:

 

If you'd like to help that cause, and have concerns about my approach or style, I'll be happy to seriously consider any constructive feedback that you might choose to offer.

I'm going back to work on promoting the Crash Course, and I ask everyone here to join me in moving past this critical exchange and focus on constructive discussion about how we can advance our cause.

Erik Townsend
Business Manager
PeakProsperity.com

Note:  Boldface/Underline added to Erik's post  by Nichoman

 

Erik...

 

Support your views...goals and concerns...but jdb123 and others do have some legitimate issues.   Also add my thanks for your time and effort in this endeavor assisting Chris. 

 

I'll take you up on your post above welcoming CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK.

 

When responding...please consider having a fellow staffer review your response w/r/t guidelines Chris posted BEFORE POSTING.   When in doubt...put it aside for several hours or as long as you need...then redress.   Maybe you already do some of this, but offer sometimes you need to look objectivity at your tone.   

 

Enthusiasm is vital...but left unchecked can cause great harm.   True leadership besides setting a good example requires approachability...which garners trust and respect...its OK to agree to disagree.   For example, been stuck in varying degres in middle of Climate Change issue for 20 plus years. Value all my colleagues...strive to separate facts and scientific standards from opinion.   Don't provide my real name for several reasons as have stated before...if we were in person to talk...you might better understand.

 

I'll restate in summary several previous comments in other posts which neither you or Chris have responded to...essentially...believe your limiting your effectiveness.

 

Best Regards,

 

Nichoman 

 

 

 

 

 

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Futuo
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

Erik made a mistake. Let's get over it, please. He's apologized, he recognizes that he was a bit reckless in his response, etc... and let it be clear that there was no censorship. Posts were simply moved to new threads to address specific issues, because many of us thought it inappropriate for those discussions to take place in a thread meant to honor someone in the community. It was by request of people in the community that an administrator moved the posts. It was also made clear that posts were moved. If you really want, I'd be more than happy to dig up the threads that have been started and had posts moved to as a result of that thread.

Really, there are always going to be legitimate "issues" to be had with anyone and everyone. But let's get over this, and move on.

Anonymous's picture
jdb123 (not verified)
Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

For the record--I haven't seen eric make mention of an error..or apologize?  Maybe I missed it in some "re-directed" aka censored thread.....but Ill concede here....he probably "acknowled some ownership tothe garbage flying on the site"...whatever...

with that said.  I WILL be making a FULL response to Eriks personal ATTACK in his response above---which IS the problem and POISON I referred to in previously removed comments---call them censored or re-directed if it makes you fell better...

For the record--I won't be making any personal attacks..or reterick...JUST thte FACTS ...if that matters...his response was WAY out of line and like a donkey should be reined in by Chris...because AGAIN---if Eric is to have this much control over Chris' site--then Eric needs to have limits set on his behavior---as recomended by Nichoman....

My FULL FACTUAL review will be posted 12/17...if not censored....Eric Bullied ( and was allowed to bully ) Kroger off this this site...he won't bullt me...the facts will win out!!!!!!!!!!

 

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cmartenson
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No, jdb123. Stop. Just stop.
jdb123 wrote:

For the record--I haven't seen eric make mention of an error..or apologize?  Maybe I missed it in some "re-directed" aka censored thread.....but Ill concede here....he probably "acknowled some ownership tothe garbage flying on the site"...whatever...

with that said.  I WILL be making a FULL response to Eriks personal ATTACK in his response above---which IS the problem and POISON I referred to in previously removed comments---call them censored or re-directed if it makes you fell better...

For the record--I won't be making any personal attacks..or reterick...JUST thte FACTS ...if that matters...his response was WAY out of line and like a donkey should be reined in by Chris...because AGAIN---if Eric is to have this much control over Chris' site--then Eric needs to have limits set on his behavior---as recomended by Nichoman....

My FULL FACTUAL review will be posted 12/17...if not censored....Eric Bullied ( and was allowed to bully ) Kroger off this this site...he won't bullt me...the facts will win out!!!!!!!!!!

jdb123,

If you post anything more on this nonsense I will delete it and suspend your posting privilidges.

This has gone on far too long and I am putting a stop to it.

You may continue to post about ways to advance the Crash Course and messages of the Three Es.  

A full prosecutorial rehash will not be welcome.  

That goes for anybody else harboring a desire to wallow around in this topic.

I hope that's clear.

Chris Martenson

PS - anybody interested in helping to moderate these forums/comments please contact me.

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Futuo
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

It pains me to have to post something like this, but for the sake of truth and integrity, I feel compelled.

Well then jdb, here are some facts:

Fact one - Erik's Apology

ErikTownsend wrote:

I am guilty of making the problem worse
by engaging Krogoth in a debate, and I apologize to the community for
not having had the sense to e-mail him and ask him to move that
discussion to a separate forum thread.

I was tempted to delete
all the off-topic (anonymity-related) posts, including my own which I
admit was not helpful. I'm not going to do that because I don't want
anyone to feel censored. I agree with the suggestion of moving
all the anonymity-related comments to the forum discussion started by
mred, but I don't know how to do that short of cutting, pasting, and
re-entering each one of them manually. 

This subject matter tends to bring out strong emotions in all of us,
and in this case I'm as guilty as anyone else of allowing my feelings
about this to have distracted me from keeping the discussion on track.
Again, I apologize for my contribution to the problem.

Erik

This is still in the thread "Heroes in Action: Michael Höhne". It wasn't moved, redirected, censored, or in any other way tampered with. If that's not enough for you, I don't know what is.

Fact two - Censorship

With regards to the "censorship" you take so much issue with, how about this:

cmartenson wrote:

I am having Amanda move the relevant posts to the thread on anonymity,
leaving the few that are relevant to Michael Hoene and deleting the
rest.

I hope nobody is offended or feels censored.

Sincerely,
Chris Martenson 

I hope your "FULL FACTUAL review" gets all its facts straight. It appears that if you have an issue with irrelevant, disrespectful posts being "censored", you ought to take that up with Chris himself. 

Fact three - we each make mistakes with our posts, and have flaws with our words

With regards to "reterick" (by which I assume you mean rhetoric), i'd like to point out the irony (a rhetorical device) in your usage of a simile (another rhetorical device) with that little donkey example. The point being that we should just get over this and move on, because any of us can find a "flaw" in any other's position, opinion, etc... I would contend that there is nothing more harmful to a community than an inability to accept apology between members within. I don't know what else you want from Erik.

What I'm trying to say is that without the ability to provide positive, constructive criticism and feedback, and without the ability to heal and move past mistakes, we will get nowhere. I look forward to your "FULL FACTUAL review." 

 

-Christopher

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Futuo
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

As per Chris's last post, I retract the parts of my previous post in which I claim to look forward to the posting of jdb's "full factual review." I'm more than willing to end this. Thank you, Chris.

Anonymous's picture
jdb123 (not verified)
Re: No, jdb123. Stop. Just stop.

OK Chris, No problem.

your request for help in moderating the forum had an excellent suggestion from Nichomen in the thread above....perhaps it was missed..here is what Nichomen wrote to Erik.

"When responding...please consider having a fellow staffer review your response w/r/t guidelines Chris posted BEFORE POSTING.   When in doubt...put it aside for several hours or as long as you need...then redress.   Maybe you already do some of this, but offer sometimes you need to look objectivity at your tone"

I would agree that a bit more oversight would be in order.  Their does seem to be a common denominator..no?  Has erik had his hand publically slapped for his reckless emails..?  Priveledges threatened...?

I am sorry that a discussion re: values is viewed as divisive.  You will have many more problems as long as Eric has this much control and lack of self control in the forums.  Although after Kroger and now myself he will probably be on his best behavior for some time to come.

As for me I will be deleting my registration on my own accord.

Anonymous's picture
jdb123 (not verified)
Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

Text removed by cmartenson

Consider my affiliation with this site--comletely withdrawn.

Admin:  Done.

 

 

Anonymous's picture
BonnieBoo (not verified)
Re: My 2 cents...Cencorship...? or Free Thinking.?

Deleted - another non-helpful post from a banned member.

[Please stop]

cmartenson

ckessel's picture
ckessel
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Posts: 483
Re: My 2 cents...Cencorship...? or Free Thinking.?
BonnieBoo wrote:

Ive been observing the comments from all on this posting and the "My 2 Cents" posting...and decided to register to ask my question....would the comment above "text removed by CMartenson" be considered censorship on this site...?  Or are we only allowing comments that are only beneficial to our self serving purposes...?  Looks a little like something Hank Paulson would do to me...?

BonnieBoo,

If you will refer to CMs previous posting you will see that he clearly delineated his requests to jdb123 as regards the potential for and reasons why he might censor remarks.He provided every opportunity for him to participate in meaningful dialogue.

We need contributions which further the overall purposes of this site.  There are plenty of sites that allow for whining and sniveling and bitching and moaning among members. This is not one of them. I applaud and support Chris in his fair, clean and swift decision making.

 

 

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Re: My 2 cents...Censorship

Deleted - another non-helpful post from a banned member.

[Please stop]

cmartenson

 

 

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gregroberts
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Re: My 2 cents...Vision--Values--Compassion

Objectivily speaking and not kissing any butt this site is private property that belongs to Chris Martenson and he has set rules for posting here. These were supposed to be read and agreed to before registering. If you don't like it then you can go somewhere else and be obnoxious.

GUIDELINES

For posts that stray outside of our admittedly subjective boundary lines, we reserve the right to modify or even remove any given post to conform to our definition of “acceptable posting.”

Please avoid any of the following:

  • Personal attacks.
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SamLinder's picture
SamLinder
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Posts: 1499
Re: My 2 cents...Censorship
BBBooBoo wrote:

Fair---Here are Chris' words above ...and I quote...

"A full prosecutorial rehash will not be welcome.  

That goes for anybody else harboring a desire to wallow around in this topic.

I hope that's clear.

Chris Martenson"

Yet above Futkou makes a FULL prosecutorial marginally accurate rehash and  I can only assume that Chris has now cut off all posting priviledges--after all--that would be "fair" as you say--would it be not.?

 

The question raised above has NOT been answered---Was it censorship onthis site or not..?  And I don't ask that directly of Ckissass....but for every OBJECTIVE observer on this site....

What's the message that is being sent..??---If someone does not agree then they ARE DISSENTERS! and MUST BE SILENCED!!!  or " we can just keep quiet and let a 4 weeks member do our big mouth bashing for us.....it keeps my hands clean of the dirty work anyway...."

 

Any REAL--OBJECTIVE constructive....non-butt kissing opinions or thoughts out there...?

When I registered for this site, I did it because I was impressed with Chris' Crash Course and was also impressed with the level of discourse in the various forums.

It pains me to see some of the heretofore intelligent discussions deteriorate into mudslinging that have nothing to do with the original purpose of this site.

Accordingly, I respectfully ask ALL participants in ALL forums to return to dialogue that is relevant to Chris' original intentions. If you cannot respect others, then I ask you to please go away.

I don't always agree with everything Chris says, but I respect his right to moderate this site by his standards. If you're only here to nitpick you are not wanted, in my humble opinion. If you are here to engage in reasoned dialogue about the serious financial issues facing this country, then I'm sure you will be welcomed.

Sam....

 

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wha wha
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Posts: 1
Re: My 2 cents...Censorship

Deleted - Same banned poster, reregistered.

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 5754
Re: My 2 cents...Censorship
wha wha wrote:

Blah blah blah

*sigh*

I know who this poster is and I've emailed him at his home address to get him to stop posting here. 

 

Futuo's picture
Futuo
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 15 2008
Posts: 155
Re: My 2 cents...Censorship
BBBooBoo wrote:

Yet above Futkou makes a FULL prosecutorial marginally accurate rehash and  I can only assume that Chris has now cut off all posting priviledges--after all--that would be "fair" as you say--would it be not.?

we can just keep quiet and let a 4 weeks member do our big mouth bashing for us.....it keeps my hands clean of the dirty work anyway...."

In case BBBooBoo or anyone else of his/her opinion is out there, i'd just like to clarify two issues here. I'm not one to prolong uesless discussions or further irrelevant arguments, but I do feel that a well-reasoned response to any allegations/concerns is necessary, if only to prevent any doubts other observers might have.

I'm not here to argue how accurate my post was, although I still stand by those quotes 100%. Anyone can verify that the quotes weren't tampered with.

If you look at my posting time, it was 3 minutes after Chris made his post. His post was not there when I began writing mine. I would not have made my first post had his been there previously. I think my second post makes that rather obvious.

Also, there are no 4 weeks members doing any bashing around here. Assuming that's a reference to me (albeit a rather selfish assumption), I've been a registered user for nine months.

I agree with srlinder. 

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