Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

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JAG's picture
JAG
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Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

I posted this in today's daily digest, but something this good deserves its own thread.

The Money As Debt II: Promises Unleashed presentation was just recently released. In my opinion, it is as educational and unique as Dr. Martenson's Crash Course.

Its a little over an hour long, and is divided into 8 segments on Youtube. The first segment is posted below.

For the first time in a long time, I actually believe there is a solution(s) to this mess we find our country (and world) in.

I'm inspired!

Morpheus's picture
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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

Watching it now.

First one was awesome!

ckessel's picture
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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

Good find Jeff. This will take a while to get through. More later.

Coop

JAG's picture
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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

If you can get through the first 20 minutes, the rest of the video discuss more complicated banking and monetary issues, including inflation/deflation, alternate currency systems throughout history, and some possible alternatives to our current "enrich the bankers at the expense of the people" system.

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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

Jag

All the information on the banks and the abstraction (fraud) of our current dollar system is spot on.  It's reading of the 'cure' of the great depression is not in line with Austrian school economics (in fact, I believe the contention that the Fed did nothing is provably untrue), but for the most part this doesn't muddy their point. 

It started setting off little alarm bells for me, though, when they suggested that the solution was to pull money creation powers away from the banks (yes, all good, all wonderful, perfect) and put it in the hands of government (in one sense this would be returning to a constitutional mandate, except that the constitution specifies 'specie' - for a lot of good reasons which may be of scope here).  The problem for me is that, once again, we the people would be giving up the power of our own labor to a self interested organization.  The implication in this piece is that the government is a sibling victim to we the people at the hands of the evil bankers.  While I do agree that our government has been inexorably harmed by this money system, the politicians have taken advantage of the system and have worked it for everything they can (second best job to working at Goldman - in fact it will likely lead to a job there afterwards.  If you play your cards right). 

This solution makes the assumption that by putting fiat money creation in the hands of the government we'd get a bunch of altruistic people who would never abuse they system.  Now, I know, I know, you probably couldn't find a single person in our government today who would consider finding loopholes or abusing the system, but believe me, it is possible.  From what I can tell, the system they'd propose still trusts in crackpot Keynsian concepts of creating currency to fill in during slow times and then removing liquidity when things 'improve' - which tends to work fine until it's time to cut the customer off - nobody wants to be the bad guy, especially in an industry (sadly, government is such) that depends on popularity.  I don't see that this would really reduce the 'boom/bust cycle,' only send the benefits into government rather than the banks.  Perhaps it's an improvement that there isn't a round robin of debt owed to debt, but the government, being a parasitic organization, would not be creating this money out of excess to begin with - I can't see how it wouldn't still be debt based (just interest free).

There is a quote at the start of this movie (by John Galbraith, ironically enough) that effectively says economists will complicate issues to confuse the people and get away with 'stuff' (big paraphrase there).  The solution proposed in the film piece actually confuses me ("You're going to tax in order to remove excess liquidity?  Punish me for your inflation of the money supply over which I had no control and likely already paid for in increased costs?") and that doesn't feel like a radical solution.

I think the biggest thing our government could do, which would be quick and rather painless as well, would be to drop legal tender laws (you are now required under the threat of violence to accept Federal Reserve Notes for all payment, public and private) and encourage alternative monetary arrangements wherever convenient.  You can all imagine instantly why this would never happen, but this is exactly why it should happen.

Daniel

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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

Jeff -

This is great stuff. Cat had just started listening when I came down this morning.  We sat for about a half hour shaking our heads at the concise simplicity of the information.  We took a break to do our morning check on the gardens and came back to stream some more.

Both of us did a "Huh" at the idea of giving control of money creation to the government - as Jackal addressed in his post - but I suppose if the "Government" also changed to what it is/was Constitutionally mandated to do, rather than what they are doing then it might work.

When is the next "Capt Sheeple" epi coming out?

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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

Daniel and Dogs,

I walked away from the presentation not feeling that any particular solution was endorsed by the producers, rather I thought several possible solutions and their ramifications were simply discussed, the government solution being one of them. Perhaps I was mistaken. Over all, I think I learned a lot from this video, and learned about possible solutions, and problems with those solutions, that I didn't know existed.

(Dogs, I think Captain Sheeple is headed to the Big Time, Youtube. I'll post his first video Breaking News Brief in his own thread next week. I think his first video expos'e will be: Captain Sheeple News: Conspiracy in the Wool Market!)

 

 

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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course
JAG wrote:

I walked away from the presentation not feeling that any particular solution was endorsed by the producers, rather I thought several possible solutions and their ramifications were simply discussed

Jeff

You could be right about that.  I've been known to overreact to ideas offensive to me before.  If all anyone ever gets out of this is the fraud that our current system is, it's done its job.  If you're hungry for knowledge/research/presentations like this, I'd humbly direct your attention over to www.mises.org - the ludwig von mises institute.  Pretty much the web home of Austrian Economic Theory.  It's not nearly as intimidating as it might sound - in fact it's generally pretty logical and simple.  Really, though, you want to go for all the free media.  I think I saw the first iteration of this film there (I remember the super slick animation was the same, though the message and focus was a little broader) - and they have a podcast channel that spits out books on mp3, recorded lectures and all sorts of stuff at an alarming rate.

I'm a painter, which means I sit in one room for long periods of time focusing entirely on the visual.  This gives me loads of unused head space to spend listening to this stuff in the background.  You'd be surprised at all you can learn by osmosis.

Daniel

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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course
JAG wrote:

Daniel and Dogs,

I walked away from the presentation not feeling that any particular solution was endorsed by the producers, rather I thought several possible solutions and their ramifications were simply discussed, the government solution being one of them. Perhaps I was mistaken. Over all, I think I learned a lot from this video, and learned about possible solutions, and problems with those solutions, that I didn't know existed.

(Dogs, I think Captain Sheeple is headed to the Big Time, Youtube. I'll post his first video Breaking News Brief in his own thread next week. I think his first video expos'e will be: Captain Sheeple News: Conspiracy in the Wool Market!)

JAG--Second installment of Captain Sheeple News: "Woolly Bully"????

juli

 

scepticus's picture
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Re: Money As Debt II: As Good as the Crash Course

Guys,

This money as debt videos are essentially a promotion of the monetary reform school of thought. This is a left leaning school with representation in most western nations, especially Canada (also UK, USA.NZ), however in common with austrian thought, both advocate 100% reserve banking.

My question is this - once all debt money has been replaced with government issued debt free notes, what then? The idea of monetary reform of this type is to confer control of money to the people, but at the point where the credit-money gap is filled, there is no more control to be had unless more money is printed  and inflation will ensue.

Assuming one posits a responsible government (and of course to accept the idea of full government control of money, one must accept the idea of or possibility of responsible government), then at this point they will stop printing it.

So with both this propsoed system, and with a gold standard you get essentially a fixed money supply. The only difference is that with the monetary reform ideas, new money can be printed to keep up with expansion thus preventing the price deflation caused by economic expansion that would be associated with a 100% reserve gold standard.

Accpeting either the monetary reform agenda, or the extreme austrian position of banning FRBanking, requires one to  embrace the concept of  100% reserve banking.

 

 

 

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