Medical stockpile question

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plantguy90's picture
plantguy90
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Medical stockpile question

Ok, I'm in the US, and I want to know how one goes about stocking and storing basic antibiotics.  Here are my questions:

1) I have no perscription, and would rather not manufacture one at a doctor's.

2) Isn't the shelf life of antibiotics limited? 

Our family is of relatively good health, I cant remember tha last time I took any medicine, but my toddler has gotten sick a few times from playing with other children so its more for just in case the kids get sick.

 

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question

I take a pill everyday for high blood pressure. I have found that I can get this drug out of India through a company called International drug mart.

I've been using this company for a couple of years and they have been  very reliable and are known for supplying generics sometimes not available in the U.S and although this drug was initially prescribed to me by a local physician, this company does not require one (although Bush seemed to just hate the idea that I could buy cheap generic drugs without a prescription outside the U.S.).

I keep a three month supply as back-up which I rotate as I use it.

While antibiotics have a shelf life, this is much extended by keeping them in the fridge.

IN AN EMERGENCY--Yes, I screamed that because IMO this is not a good practice; the common antibiotics and needles for injection etc. can be bought without a prescription at your local vet supply store.

During the anthrax scare, I did exactly that.

 

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question

 

The shelf life of antibiotics can be dramatically increased by refrigeration.  However, be careful, as some antibiotics, notably the tetracyclines, become toxic as they deteriorate, and can do organ damage.  Long term, it's probably best to have an alternative to pharmaceutical antibiotics. They cause a decrease in immune function, and tend to create the need for more antibiotics.  There are herbal alternatives that will not do this, and that are easily renewable by growing your own.  This is a far safer and more sustainable method than relying on a pharmaceutical industry whose integrity is questionable, anyway.  Herbal Antibiotics -- Natural Alternatives for Treating Drug-Resistant Bacteria by Stephen Harrod Buhner is a good place to start.

Additionally, I would say that the best way to prepare for the upcoming crisis is to position yourself not to rely on conventional healthcare.  This means keeping your immune system strong, through nutrition and healthy lifestyle, and avoiding toxins whenever possible.  The vast majority of disease, including infections, cancer, heart disease, hypertension, fibromyalgia, arthritis, chronic fatigue, on and on, are caused by toxins in our environment and food and nutritional deficiencies.  These diseases can be prevented by a process called detoxification, in which those toxins are bound and excreted from the body.  This is the single most important key to getting and staying healthy.

That leaves traumatic injury as something we need to prepare for.  I think it's a good idea for everybody to have some basic trauma treatment training, eg hemorrhage, fractures, etc. 

Hope this helps.  Full disclosure:  I'm a critical care RN, self-educated in herbalism.

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question
c1oudfire wrote:

Hope this helps.  Full disclosure:  I'm a critical care RN, self-educated in herbalism.

Cloud -

Here's one for you.

Let's say "someone" has been diagnosed with lone paroxysmal atrial fibrillation.  Normal cardiac morphology, asymptomatic, no family history, no associated risk factors.

Chemically controlled (and well tolerated) now with a pro-rhythmic and a low dose beta blocker, also daily aspirin.

Skip three doses and afib starts - as soon as I get back on the meds, normal rhythm within 30 minutes.

Are you aware of any "twigs and berries"or herbal solutions that can be used in the event Uncle Sam's pharmacy is no longer in operation?

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Re: Medical stockpile question

Dogs,

My advice is to stock up big-time from international pharmacies that don't require a prescription.  I have done this very thing myself.

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Re: Medical stockpile question
SteveR wrote:

Dogs,

My advice is to stock up big-time from international pharmacies that don't require a prescription.  I have done this very thing myself.

Steve -

If I was taking motrin or some generic OTC I might go overseas.  When it comes to my heart, I'd pull my kneecaps off with a soup spoon before trusting an overseas pharmacy.

Or I could just resign myself to fluttering away and risk throwing a clot - ya gotta go sometime anyway right?

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Re: Medical stockpile question

I'm with you, dogs.

I don't mean to bash herbs but you will have to experiment on yourself a bunch to get the same certitude of dosage . If you're protocol aint broke, don't fix it, IMHO.

SG

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Re: Medical stockpile question

Dogs, as Bill Clinton says, "I feel your pain."

My wife is chained to pharmaceuticals in the same way you are. We have managed to get a month ahead in some, 3 in most, but if we had no access to drugs starting tomorrow, it would change our life in a way I cannot, rather will not imagine.

I have no solution that I can cook up in my backyard, so I have to believe Merck, Pharmacia, and others will exist in some form indefinitely. My focus has been on making sure I have the assets, whatever they may be, to pay for medical care. Dollars, gold, etc., whatever it takes, I have to have a plan.

If anyone sees where I am missing something, please let me know.

Rog

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question

here's a great site my sister gave me that discusses some guidelines for storing medicine:

http://www.survival-center.com/med-faq/

I saw the tetracycline issue on this website as well and it caught my eye as a contradiction to the chemist in me that said low temperatures slow chemical reactions.

The only other suggestion I might have, and I have no formal qualifications, is that deoxygenating and desiccating the environment for medicines should help them last longer. I certainly see no harm done in doing this, particularly if you are trying to store them as long as possible.

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:
c1oudfire wrote:

Hope this helps.  Full disclosure:  I'm a critical care RN, self-educated in herbalism.

Cloud -

Here's one for you.

Let's say "someone" has been diagnosed with lone paroxysmal atrial fibrillation.  Normal cardiac morphology, asymptomatic, no family history, no associated risk factors.

Chemically controlled (and well tolerated) now with a pro-rhythmic and a low dose beta blocker, also daily aspirin.

Skip three doses and afib starts - as soon as I get back on the meds, normal rhythm within 30 minutes.

Are you aware of any "twigs and berries"or herbal solutions that can be used in the event Uncle Sam's pharmacy is no longer in operation?

I'm glad you asked this one, Dogs.  Again, disclaimer:  I am a critical care nurse, not  a doctor.  But I have lots of experience in the ICU/CCU with paroxysmal atrial fibrillation, and my husband had exactly that conditon:  previously healthy, otherwise healthy heart, good diet, active daily.  My experience, as well as my reading sources outside of mainstream medicine, tell me that aspirin and cardiac drugs, especially antiarrhythmics have many serious side effects that may not manifest for many months.  I recommend (as a nurse, and a friend, not as a doctor) that you explore the possibility of laser ablation.  It is a simple, relatively low risk procedure in which the abnormal conduction pathway is lasered away after being mapped with a highly sophisticated EKG technology.  In atrial fibrillation, it is usually completely effective, eradicating the atrial fib forever; no more drugs, no more a-fib, and no residual effects.

When ablation is successful, and your a-fib is resolved, you will no longer be dependent on pharmaceuticals for your survival.  Also, you have eliminated the risk of a blood clot forming in your heart during a period of a-fib, then dislodging and going to your brain or lung when you convert back to normal sinus rhythm. 

Again, I am only a nurse, and cannot give you medical advice, but this is what I immediately requested for my husband, on learning that he was having episodes of paroxysmal a-fib.  Having extensive experience with this situation, I did not want my husband exposed to the risks of antiarrhythmics and anticoagulants, when there is a curative procedure with no residual effects, and a low side-effect profile.  As I recall, my husband had his procedure done on a Thursday or Friday, and was back to work (carpenter) the following Monday.  It is a virtually pain free procedure.

To increase the chances that you will have the procedure approved by insurance, you'll want to stress reasons that pharmacologic intervention has been inadequate or inappropriate for you, and/or reasons you cannot tolerate anticoagulation. 

After you have the a-fib resolved, you may want to look to your dental health with a highly qualified biological dentist.  These kinds of cardiac problems are often associated with more or less obvious periodontal disease.  (That was true in my husband's case).  If you have periodontal disease, you will want to get that aggressively treated, as it can cause a variety of health problems, some of them lethal.  Let me know if you need leads for getting truly good dental care.

Hope this helps.  Let me know what you decide.  I always like to hear how people are doing.  You know that I lean heavily toward alternative healthcare.  But this is one exception where the technology is so good, it's just a no-brainer.

 

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question
Mike Pilat wrote:

I saw the tetracycline issue on this website as well and it caught my eye as a contradiction to the chemist in me that said low temperatures slow chemical reactions.

The only other suggestion I might have, and I have no formal qualifications, is that deoxygenating and desiccating the environment for medicines should help them last longer. I certainly see no harm done in doing this, particularly if you are trying to store them as long as possible.

 

Hi, Mike;

I hope I didn't confuse anyone.  You are  right . .  decreasing storage temperature will slow reaction speed and generally lengthen shelf life of just about anything.  What I meant to say is that, while one can increase the shelf life of many drugs this way, it is risky with drugs like tetracycline that become toxic when they do degrade.  In other words, I just wouldn't push past the expiration date on the tetracyclines.

Do not freeze meds . . . the freeze/thaw cycle can result in condensation, and turn the bottle contents to mush.

Your idea of low oxygen and moisture make sense, though I know of no specific data for low oxygen environments.  Low moisture is a no-brainer, as the drug companies often pack dessicants with their meds.  If your meds come in a sealed bottle with a dessicant pack, it's probably best to store them in the fridge.

 

To all;

If you are on meds that are critical to your health, I advise that you have at least a 3 month supply on hand, and have plan B (herbs and other alternative therapies) in place, before a supply crisis occurs.  There are many alternatives to conventional pharmaceuticals, and though the transition cannot be made overnight, with research and time, many people find that they're not as dependent on the meds as they thought they were. 

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I highly recommend detoxification strategies for most diseases.  Often, when the body is cleared of the accumulated toxins, diseases improve or resolve completely, and meds become unnecessary.  This includes conditions that are thought to be terminal, such as cancer and heart disease.  A great starting point for the layperson is Detoxify or Die by Dr. Sherry Rogers, M.D..

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question

Cloud: Thanks for the input! I understand the issue with the tetracyclines. Are you aware of any other drugs that become toxic as they degrade?

My current plan was this: remove medicines from containers and place them in a non-sealing sandwich bag with a label indicating exactly what medicine, etc. it is. Then take a collection of the sandwich bags and seal them in a mylar bag with a desiccant and oxygen absorber and freeze them. Provided that there is a desiccant, I don't think the freeze/thaw cycles would be much of an issue, especially since I plan on freezing the brick and letting it stay long term. How does this sound so far?

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Re: Medical stockpile question

cloud -

Been on these meds for over five years now and except for the occasional eyestalk that sprouts out of my forehead - no real side effects.  Always self converted too, and never been in a-fib for more than 24 hours so no real accumulation of clot risk.

Not that interested in ablation.  Maybe when I'm in my 60s and have earned my a-fib, but not in my mid forties.

I'll discuss with my cardio when I see him in a few months.

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capesurvivor
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Re: Medical stockpile question

Mike,

I researched this stuff a while back; if I have any urls of studies hanging around I'll send them on.

I do remember that the U.S. military study found Cipro still good after 9 years because it has a hard shell. I don't think they used any special storage. Google around.

SG

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Re: Medical stockpile question
Mike Pilat wrote:

Cloud: Thanks for the input! I understand the issue with the tetracyclines. Are you aware of any other drugs that become toxic as they degrade?

My current plan was this: remove medicines from containers and place them in a non-sealing sandwich bag with a label indicating exactly what medicine, etc. it is. Then take a collection of the sandwich bags and seal them in a mylar bag with a desiccant and oxygen absorber and freeze them. Provided that there is a desiccant, I don't think the freeze/thaw cycles would be much of an issue, especially since I plan on freezing the brick and letting it stay long term. How does this sound so far?

Mike;

I don't know of any other drugs that degrade to toxins, offhand, but I'd check with the pharmacist, to be sure.

I like the idea of limiting both oxygen and humidity, but you have to be careful about using both dessicants and oxygen absorbers together.  They can interfere with each other.  A great resource on this is technical services department at Sorbent Systems.  They helped me a great deal with my storage.

I'd also pack, seal, and freeze a batch, then check on them in a couple months, just to see how they do (in terms of condensation, and other visible degradation).

Although it's not always avoidable, I try not to use plastics and mylar for long-term storage*, as they outgas phthalates, which are hormone mimics that can cause a raft of health problems, by interfering with the receptor sites for your normal hormones.  We're not just talking estrogen/testosterone here.  We're talking about all of the hormone systems that regulate everything from your heart rate to the formation of urine, to your ability to respond to stress.  You want to keep those systems in tip-top condition.

Since I have not found an affordable way to store bulk grains, etc, without mylar, I know that I need to rid my body of the phthalates that I do ingest.  The best way to effectively do this is to sweat.  Yes, sweat . ..  by any means possible . . . hard work, recreation, sauna, hot tub, or infrared sauna.  Perspiration is the poor man's detox program.  Perspiration is an excellent way to get rid of most toxins.  Just make sure you have adequate mineral intake, to replace those lost in perspiration.  

A supplement to improve metabolism of hormones and hormone mimics, such as the phthalates you may ingest from mylar and other plastics is DIM -- diindolylmethane complex. 

Sorry, this was probably more information than you wanted.  Sometimes I just can't help myself.Embarassed

*  I use glass, such as mason jars, whenever possible.

** Once again, my disclaimer:  I'm just a critical care RN, with only an informal self-education in herbalism and detoxification.  I'm sharing my personal strategies with you as a friend.Smile

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

cloud -

Been on these meds for over five years now and except for the occasional eyestalk that sprouts out of my forehead - no real side effects. 

LOL  . . . my, you do make me laugh, Dog!  Well, keep me posted, bud.  Cool

 

 

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question

This is a great thread. I have the same issues, both for myself and my toddler with Type 1 diabetes. I have often wondered if TSHTF and she couldn't get her meds what I would be able to do. The insulin itself lasts about a year if the dates on the boxes can be believed - unopened - but once you start to use it, I've been able to go about 5 months before it degrades. She is very young, so I thankfully can go that long and use-up a vial rather than throwing it away. Of course, her Endocrinologist has a heart-attack but I was told to do it by an ER doctor and he turned-out to be right! I can't believe they want me to spend the $$ every month and throw away perfectly good medicine, but oh well. I guess everyone is worried about their ass if something happens. Currently, I have truthfully at least a year's supply because I just bought a vial, then they gave me 2 vials when I went to the doc Thursday because they know that right now I am still self-pay. And it's not cheap!

Personally, I am on synthroid. I have been on just about every other one out there, but the natural one I preferred became scarce in the pharmacies so I ended-up switching back. I have heard countless wellness and naturopaths talk about how people like myself can just take kelp untill we practically turn into seaweed and we'll be fine, but I've tried it and soon as the meds are out of my system, I feel like crap. I'm getting more into eating w/o preservatives and making my stuff from scratch. I'm just not sure if you took away that and the Welbutrin that keeps my mood relatively stable (because trust me - Jekyl and Hyde a bit, even while on them)  I would survive in any form that would be useful to my family. And the idea of that scares the crap out of me, frankly.

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Re: Medical stockpile question

Another thing to keep in mind concerning tetracycline: it should not be given to children under the age of 8, or to pregnant women. The child's permanant teeth can come in discolored and there are also possible bone/growth issues. In general, I would suggest keeping information on whatever drug is being stored so that you know the possible side effects. If it's a life or death situation, yellow teeth are worth the risk. But, at least know that there isn't a worse possible outcome.

becky

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Re: Medical stockpile question
Zafra Davian wrote:

This is a great thread. I have the same issues, both for myself and my toddler with Type 1 diabetes. I have often wondered if TSHTF and she couldn't get her meds what I would be able to do. The insulin itself lasts about a year if the dates on the boxes can be believed - unopened - but once you start to use it, I've been able to go about 5 months before it degrades. She is very young, so I thankfully can go that long and use-up a vial rather than throwing it away. Of course, her Endocrinologist has a heart-attack but I was told to do it by an ER doctor and he turned-out to be right! I can't believe they want me to spend the $$ every month and throw away perfectly good medicine, but oh well. I guess everyone is worried about their ass if something happens. Currently, I have truthfully at least a year's supply because I just bought a vial, then they gave me 2 vials when I went to the doc Thursday because they know that right now I am still self-pay. And it's not cheap!

Personally, I am on synthroid. I have been on just about every other one out there, but the natural one I preferred became scarce in the pharmacies so I ended-up switching back. I have heard countless wellness and naturopaths talk about how people like myself can just take kelp untill we practically turn into seaweed and we'll be fine, but I've tried it and soon as the meds are out of my system, I feel like crap. I'm getting more into eating w/o preservatives and making my stuff from scratch. I'm just not sure if you took away that and the Welbutrin that keeps my mood relatively stable (because trust me - Jekyl and Hyde a bit, even while on them)  I would survive in any form that would be useful to my family. And the idea of that scares the crap out of me, frankly.

Zafra;

Again, I'm going to sound like a broken record, but I highly recommend  a detoxification program for both you and your daughter.  I've posted a good book to start with, earlier in this thread: Detoxify or Die.  Many who thought they "needed" antidepressants find that they can do without, when they are cleared of accumulated toxins.

It's not surprising that you feel lousy when you stop your antidepressants.  I have always had the best luck, professionally, and personally, by tapering off of meds very slowly.  One's own body must adjust to the change. 

Also, I'll try to explain why the slow taper down and detoxification are necessary.  When drugs are metabolized by the body, they are converted into "metabolites", which are somewhat similar substances but do not have the beneficial effect of the drug, and may, in fact, make you feel lousy due to their toxic effects.  When the body can't adequately excrete these metabolites (through the liver, kidneys, or sweat glands), it stores them in tissues, to get them out of the blood stream, where they could do the most  damage. 

As long as you keep ingesting the drug, these metabolites stay "safely" tucked in tissues (especially fat).  But when you stop taking the drug, your blood stream tries to stay in equilibrium with the chemical levels in your tissues, and the metabolites spill back into your bloodstream, making you feel lousy.  This is also a major reason people feel lousy when they try to lose weight -- the toxins that are stored in fat come spilling back into their bloodstream.

This is also the mechanism which keeps drug addicts addicted, and why it is so hard to quit drugs without a "detox" program . . . because that's exactly what's needed:  detoxification of the metabolites that come spilling back into the blood stream when the drug is no longer ingested.

So, bottom line:  you might find it useful to develop a good detox program, then taper your meds down very slowly.  Done properly, you may find that you feel better than ever.

 

With regard to diabetes, I have no direct experience with herbal treatments, but I understand that even type I diabetics can reduce or even eliminate their need for insulin with detoxification and avoidance of toxins.  It is especially important that she avoid aspartame, which is a highly neurotoxic substance that contributes to the development of many of the complications of diabetes.  Aspartame is also in a lot of products without being specifically labelled as such.  Sometimes it's even part of what is listed on labels as "natural flavoring". 

With regard to the vials of insulin, be sure that you use excellent sterile technique.  If you contaminate a bottle, bacteria may start to grow.  Watch carefully for abnormal cloudiness. 

 

With both the hypothyroidism and diabetes, there's good advice in the book Detoxify or Die.  I highly recommend it, as both you and your daughter have disorders that are highly correlated with toxin accumulation.  You've made some good steps to avoiding future toxin load, but unfortunately, you are probably suffering many symptoms from the accumulated toxin load from the past.  I would also recommend, if you have not already done so, that you make sure you are drinking water that is free of chlorine and fluoride.  These are both toxic substances that burden your natural detoxification systems significantly.  I've listed ways to avoid disorders due to hormone mimicing phthalates in a previous post, in this thread.  Finally, if you have any "silver" fillings, have them properly removed by a biological dentist, as these outgas mercury fumes, exposing you to very toxic mercury, which in itself can cause depression and episodes of rage.

Well, there I go again, blathering on . . . I hope some of this is helpful. 

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question

You are not blathering, I find this very informative. Is sweat the way to detoxify? How do you feel about the bowel cleansing treatments out?

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Re: Medical stockpile question
jerrydon10 wrote:

I take a pill everyday for high blood pressure. I have found that I can get this drug out of India through a company called International drug mart.

I've been using this company for a couple of years and they have been  very reliable and are known for supplying generics sometimes not available in the U.S and although this drug was initially prescribed to me by a local physician, this company does not require one (although Bush seemed to just hate the idea that I could buy cheap generic drugs without a prescription outside the U.S.).

I keep a three month supply as back-up which I rotate as I use it.

While antibiotics have a shelf life, this is much extended by keeping them in the fridge.

IN AN EMERGENCY--Yes, I screamed that because IMO this is not a good practice; the common antibiotics and needles for injection etc. can be bought without a prescription at your local vet supply store.

During the anthrax scare, I did exactly that.

 

 

Jerrydon10

I am a veterinary surgeon.  In New Zealand we would be sent to the Veterinary council immediately if we were caught providing antibiotics (prescription drugs) over the counter.  I simply cannot believe it is different in America.

Secondly, be very careful with your advice.  Some antibiotics are very very dangerous for humans (From memory at vet school, which was a long time ago now, I was told enrofloxacin  causes an irreversible aplastic anaemia (your bone marrow permanently loses its ability to produce red blood cells). 

While penecillin is a broad spectrum general use antibiotic, I wouldn't trust the formulation of the tablet to be effective either - which is made specifically for animals.  But if you must take animal medicine, this would probably do the least harm.

Also bear in mind to get the dose rate right.  If you have a sub-lethal dose, all that happens is the bacteria become resistant and you get more problems.  You also need a complete course (atleast 7 days IMO) or not all the bugs get killed and again, you get resistance problems.  Generally that's why you get a prescription.

In general I think taking animal remedies is frought with risk and I do not recommend it. 

There is a (human) surgeon on this site somewhere.  Hopefully he can give some good comments on this thread.

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Re: Medical stockpile question

I want to add a few comments to Cloud's medical approach.  I think she has some good advice.  Here's my story...

Last August I started looking into natural healing.  This was long before I knew about Chris' CC and that TS will HTF.  At that time my motive was that the USA will eventually get government controlled health care and since I'm 50, I wanted to find a way to get healthy and not be dependent on whatever health care the government decides I should have.  It's been an eye opening journey about all that's out there since I've never heard about this type of medicine before.  I've been reading a lot on CureZone.com (especially the "Ask Doc Sutter" forum).  The hard thing I've found when reading forums like the cure zone is determining who is correct in their cures and who's crazy.  I've decided to start with building my system by getting rid of toxins.  I've been drinking LOTS of pure water and have started doing liver flushes.  A few months ago was talking to another family who's son is on the same basketball team as mine and found out that the Mom is a naturopathic physician.  I didn't know these people could be so normal (LOL).  I had a few conversations with her and realized that she fixes a lot of problems that "normal doctors" would have used maintenance drugs for years and years just to treat the symptoms. For those of you who are dependent on daily drugs, you might want to look into this. 

Now that I'm part of this site and know we're in for some rough times ahead, I'm glad I've been learning about cleaning up my body so that I can fight off pollutants/disease in the future. I don't know if everything can be treated by natural healing but I don't think it can hurt to find out more about it.  One thing I plan to do in the next few months is to get my metal dental fillings replaced since there's a major consensus that mercury in the fillings adds to toxins in the body.  Again, I don't know how bad it will be when TSHTF but it couldn't hurt to learn some of these ways now. 

Hey, if you get some good natural healing books now, you'll have lots of good reading material for when you're hunkered down waiting out the economic storm.

 

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Re: Medical stockpile question

I would like to echo what Mr. Fri has said about naturopaths. After YEARS of going to "regular" Western doctors, Vermont BCBS finally allowed payment for naturopathic care. What a difference it has made. I was on high blood pressure med for several years & now I have eliminated the need for it through using herbs & a FABULOUS little biofeedback machine called RESPeRATE (see their website www.resperate.com ). I also take thyroid medication which I must take because of radiation damage in my 20's. But in the past, I have used veterinary-grade thyroid with success. It, as I understand it, isn't as regulated as the human equivalent (does anyone know this to be true??), but it could be better than nothing if you couldn't get the latter. Look on line for veterinary supply companies to get catalogs. I am NOT advising people to take anything without doing lots of research & weighing your own levels of risk-taking although my own personal opinion is that there are far more risks in pharmaceuticals than almost anything!

Most importantly, get yourself in shape, healthy & strong. Eat whole, organic foods (grow your own if possible), meditate to relieve stress, take extra Vitamin D, especially in the winter, do what you love...........these are all things that will keep you well so the drug issue becomes irrelevant.

Treah

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Posts: 9
Re: Medical stockpile question

Pardon my ignorance because I don't mean this to sound any way other than curious, but how would detoxifying help her with a condition she got when she was only 18 moths and breastfed the whole time? Sure, I didn't have an all-natural diet so I'm sure she got passed-along a bit of stuff, but it is my understanding that the immune-fighting stuff from breastmilk is just awesome. I'm a believer, the girl's been sick maybe 2x in 3 years. The first time is what triggered her diabetes, unfortunately.

Now, me, I can see the benefits a bit more. I have always been a bit suspicious as to why I got this auto-immune response and it seems like a cop-out to me when Western medicine just slaps a drug in your hand and basically says 'live w/ it'. It's like your doc prescribing an antihistamine instead of telling you to go do something like take honey made from the pollen of what you're allergic to. (My husband has just started doing this) And suspiciously, we have 4 cats and although my husband has allergic reactions still when he goes to other's homes, he doesn't have one to our cats!

I will re-look at the detox, etc. Truth is, I went to some people that as someone else pointed-out didn't exactly seem 'normal'. LOL Which is un-fair, but a totally conditioned response. Add to that it was far away and expensive as hell (no insurance) and I gave up for awhile. Now I am back on the natural-health train.

Any thoughts on this whole 'alkaline water' deal? I am one of the masses w/ a whole-home filtration system and a reverse osmosis filter under my sink. The water that comes out of my fridge is that kind.

Melody - who is too lazy to change her profile name. :-) 

jerrydon10's picture
jerrydon10
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 442
Re: Medical stockpile question
Amanda V wrote:

I am a veterinary surgeon.  In New Zealand we would be sent to the
Veterinary council immediately if we were caught providing antibiotics
(prescription drugs) over the counter.  I simply cannot believe it is
different in America.

Secondly, be very careful with your advice.  Some antibiotics are
very very dangerous for humans (From memory at vet school, which was a
long time ago now, I was told enrofloxacin  causes an irreversible
aplastic anaemia (your bone marrow permanently loses its ability to
produce red blood cells). 

While penecillin is a broad spectrum general use antibiotic, I wouldn't
trust the formulation of the tablet to be effective either - which is
made specifically for animals.  But if you must take animal medicine,
this would probably do the least harm.

Also bear in mind to get the dose rate right.  If you have a
sub-lethal dose, all that happens is the bacteria become resistant and
you get more problems.  You also need a complete course (atleast 7 days
IMO) or not all the bugs get killed and again, you get resistance
problems.  Generally that's why you get a prescription.

In general I think taking animal remedies is frought with risk and I do not recommend it. 

There is a (human) surgeon on this site somewhere.  Hopefully he can give some good comments on this thread.

It is much different in America, Amanda. We do not require prescriptions for most vet medicines (but a prescription is required for some).

One simply walks into a farm supply store and buys it. Farmers in america are aware of your cautions above and are trained in that area.

Note that I pointed out this should only be employed in an emergency. Of course, I don't recommend that one routinely treat his family using vet supplies, lol.....But there may come a time when that is the only possibility and this is one source in the U.S. that should not be overlooked.

In the U.S. injectable penecillin is the same for animals as it is homo sapiens. Now, I wouldn't start giving my girlfriend horse pills. Wink 

One need educate themselves in the specific medicines they wish to stock and employ common sense.

BYW, I was a chemist before I became an estate planner/financial advisor.

 

 

paranoid's picture
paranoid
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 27 2009
Posts: 140
Re: Medical stockpile question

I gave a lecture last year to a RA group (RA is auto-immune) and was shocked at how many of them would take harsh meds and not even do step one on their diet (cut sugar, wheat etc). Auto-imm diseases are very typically strongly influenced by lifestyle.  elim the top allergens - wheat, soy, corn, dairy, and cut sugar.

 a healthy diet - lots of greens, etc - will help you detoox on a daily basis. I am a big fan of hydrgen peroxide/epsom salt foot soaks too. Its cheap and has a long history of benefit. Dr. Majid Ali is where I got that from. Google him - he is a noted expert.

 For meds - there are research chem websites where you might be able to get Rx meds for storage - if anyone wants the list LMK

Zafra Davian wrote:

Pardon my ignorance because I don't mean this to sound any way other than curious, but how would detoxifying help her with a condition she got when she was only 18 moths and breastfed the whole time? Sure, I didn't have an all-natural diet so I'm sure she got passed-along a bit of stuff, but it is my understanding that the immune-fighting stuff from breastmilk is just awesome. I'm a believer, the girl's been sick maybe 2x in 3 years. The first time is what triggered her diabetes, unfortunately.

Now, me, I can see the benefits a bit more. I have always been a bit suspicious as to why I got this auto-immune response and it seems like a cop-out to me when Western medicine just slaps a drug in your hand and basically says 'live w/ it'. It's like your doc prescribing an antihistamine instead of telling you to go do something like take honey made from the pollen of what you're allergic to. (My husband has just started doing this) And suspiciously, we have 4 cats and although my husband has allergic reactions still when he goes to other's homes, he doesn't have one to our cats!

I will re-look at the detox, etc. Truth is, I went to some people that as someone else pointed-out didn't exactly seem 'normal'. LOL Which is un-fair, but a totally conditioned response. Add to that it was far away and expensive as hell (no insurance) and I gave up for awhile. Now I am back on the natural-health train.

Any thoughts on this whole 'alkaline water' deal? I am one of the masses w/ a whole-home filtration system and a reverse osmosis filter under my sink. The water that comes out of my fridge is that kind.

Melody - who is too lazy to change her profile name. :-) 

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Re: Medical stockpile question

I'll venture my two cents worth, and prepare to get shot down. I am a traditional western medicine sort, medical school in the U.S., two surgical residencies in the U.S., etc. From this perspective, I can see the advantages and limitations of western medicine, at least as I have seen it practiced in the U.S. Two of my major concerns with western medicine are an excessive reliance on testing (when some measure of common sense or intuition might do) and excessive reliance on treatment (when basic changes in lifestyle might suffice). I have mentioned these same concerns in other posts on this site, so won't go into greater detail here.

One huge advantage that I see in western medicine is the level of proof we try to seek for the strategies we employ. It has been that dedication to scientific rigor which has brought us antisepsis, antibiotics, successful chemotherapy regimens, improved heart surgery results, transplantations, etc. Not that this system is inerrant, of course. There are unscrupulous people in medicine, as there are anywhere. We read regularly of pharmaceutical companies who have tried to withhold some aspect of their findings for fear of affecting sales, for example. Also, there is much in medicine that is based less on science than on tradition. This is particularly true in surgery, where two surgeons may perform the same procedure in different ways, simply due to where they received their training.

On the whole, however, much of western medicine has the advantage of reasonably knowing the anticipated benefits and potential risks of the treatments available to the physician for his/her patient.

My next comments will deal with my perspective on alternative therapies, which is a very broad group, to include herbalism, chiropractic, acupuncture, etc. And, let me say up front that I do not hold myself out to be an expert in this regard. My viewpoint is that of an educated layman, and my inquiries into other areas have been prompted by questions from friends and family regarding specific alternative therapies. I typically get one or two of these questions a year, try to find all that I can on the subject asked, and give my best summation. Typically, I have found little data which supports the therapy being considered and which meets my personal requirements for reasonable scientific rigor. I do not mean to imply that a given alternative therapy doesn't work, just that I haven't been impressed that proof of efficacy and safety yet exists.

Again, my viewpoint is admittedly biased, as I come from a certain perspective, and I have not done a great deal of research on the matter, as my inquiries are typically limited to the one or two questions I receive per year. I may be wrong, this is just my impression to date, for what it might be worth.

I do have positive impressions of bio-feedback, massage therapy, acupuncture, hypnosis, and some other therapies, for certain conditions. I am generally not a fan of herbal therapies or supplements, or at least those I have looked into, for the reasons cited above. Also, supplements are even less well-regulated than conventional medications, and a number of studies have pointed out that a given supplement may not contain as much of the "active" ingredient as advertised, and may also contain a number of potentially harmful contaminants.

I have a very dubious view on therapies such as detoxification and chelation. Avoiding toxins, of course, makes all the sense in the world, whether that involve limiting exposure to seafoods likely containing high concentrations of mercury or avoiding produce likely to have pesticides. The body is very good at eliminating toxins, and so long as new toxins are not being ingested, the body will, in short order, eliminate those toxins that it is capable of eliminating. There are some toxins that our bodies do not have capacity to neutralize or eliminate, but I am not impressed by what I have read that there is evidence that outward influences can alter this fact. Chelation therapy, utilizing EDTA, has a limited medical role in the treatment of heavy metal poisoning. It has not been proven to be of use for other conditions, such as reversing atherosclerosis.

I do not know much about mercury amalgam fillings and whether or not they may be a significant source of ongoing toxicity. I did a little browsing before penning this reply, but not enough to say more. I'll spend some more time on this topic, trying to sort the wheat from the chaff.

I'll take a brief break to apologize for the long post. I should have broken it into two pieces, but I've got to go round on my patients in a few minutes, and don't know when I'd get back to it.

Okay, as to stockpiling medications such as antibiotics. First, I agree with another respondent that I do not think it likely that the entire pharmaceutical industry will come to an end, so I think most medications will continue to be available. But, I also think it likely that some medications may be in limited supply, so some degree of stockpiling of essential medications would be of value. Second, I agree with other respondents that refrigeration can prolong the useful life of most medications, and would also point out that many medications retain a significant amount of their potency well beyond their stated shelf life. However, some medications can degrade into undesirable compounds with time or exposure, so I would generally recommend following the expiration date, unless you have personally researched the safety of taking a medication past its shelf life. Third, if you do want to stockpile some medications, I would suggest talking to your physician, and see if he/she would be willing to help you in this regard. If asked, I would do so, and I suspect others are out there that might be willing to do so, also. Please, don't send me a bunch of requests for prescriptions; stick with your own provider, or find another who might be willing to help.

As to veterinary medications, I will defer to Amanda's reply above, as she is much more informed than I. In our household, people take people medicine, and our dogs take dog medicine, and I don't foresee that changing. (I will give our older dog a quarter of an Aspirin from time to time, which really helps his arthritis; Amanda, let me know if I shouldn't be doing this.) I suspect we will continue to have access to most medications, and only if there is changes would I consider speaking with a knowledgeable veterinarian regarding potential alternatives for me and my family.

Two pages in the last two minutes; gotta go! Finally, as Chris Martenson has said, trust yourself; by which I take it to mean that he expects you to inform yourself, too. If you would do so for your economic health, it makes even more sense to do so for your physical health. Do not take anyone's perspectives, including mine, at face value. Search out resources you trust, apply scientific logic when possible, and make your best choice.

One final reference before I go: 

http://www.quackwatch.org

I find this an interesting and entertaining site to visit.

Ciao! 

jerrydon10's picture
jerrydon10
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 442
Re: Medical stockpile question

There is no such thing as squirril aspirin as opposed to people aspirin. It is either aspirin, acetylsalicylic acid, or it is something else. Cool

paranoid's picture
paranoid
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 27 2009
Posts: 140
Re: Medical stockpile question
ccpetersmd wrote:

One final reference before I go: 

http://www.quackwatch.org

I find this an interesting and entertaining site to visit.

Ciao! 

 Chris you are obviously open minded and unlike most doctors. Thanks for your input. However the irony is that all our experts - from the financial experts of Wall Street to the medical experts - the best of the best with MD's and MBA's from Harvard and Yale etc, etc - are seen time and time again as not so 'expert' after all. Power corrupts right?

Stephen Barret of quackwatch is the poster boy for the medical establishments fight to protect its turf. As a grad student at NY Medical College and while working for a major pharm co - I spent much of my time looking into the history of medicine, and the financial aspects as well - it's shady beyond belief. Did you know the AMA, AHA and several other medical organizations were found guilty of Felony Charges for violating the RICO Act? They knowingly conspired to discredit chiropractic medicine. I could go on and on - Null et al published a great paper showing (if memory is correct) that iatrogenesis is the leading cause of death in the US.

http://www.whale.to/a/null9.html

If you want some real MD's leading the way with healthy, holistic treatments - look at www.MajidAli.com for one. He regularly challenges the NEJM and AMA on how they sell out to big pharm and are anti-scientific. Talk to him and see if you come away with the same opinion.

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Re: Medical stockpile question
jerrydon10 wrote:

There is no such thing as squirril aspirin as opposed to people aspirin. It is either aspirin, acetylsalicylic acid, or it is something else. Cool

Thanks, I know what Aspirin is, some of the plants from which it is derived (such as willow bark), and even much of the interesting history of its commercial development. My point was that not every medication is equally safe and/or effective across species (and even within a species, for that matter). I mentioned Aspirin only as a reference, and to ask Amanda whether or not it is okay to my dog.

Interestingly, I have heard some argue that if Aspirin were introduced now, it would never be approved. Hard to believe, as I think it is a great medication, but that is probably a reasonable argument.  The same argument is almost certainly true for another old medication, Digitalis, in which the benefit to risk ratio is quite small. 

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Re: Medical stockpile question
paranoid wrote:
ccpetersmd wrote:

One final reference before I go: 

http://www.quackwatch.org

I find this an interesting and entertaining site to visit.

Ciao! 

 Chris you are obviously open minded and unlike most doctors. Thanks for your input. However the irony is that all our experts - from the financial experts of Wall Street to the medical experts - the best of the best with MD's and MBA's from Harvard and Yale etc, etc - are seen time and time again as not so 'expert' after all. Power corrupts right?

Stephen Barret of quackwatch is the poster boy for the medical establishments fight to protect its turf. As a grad student at NY Medical College and while working for a major pharm co - I spent much of my time looking into the history of medicine, and the financial aspects as well - it's shady beyond belief. Did you know the AMA, AHA and several other medical organizations were found guilty of Felony Charges for violating the RICO Act? They knowingly conspired to discredit chiropractic medicine. I could go on and on - Null et al published a great paper showing (if memory is correct) that iatrogenesis is the leading cause of death in the US.

http://www.whale.to/a/null9.html

If you want some real MD's leading the way with healthy, holistic treatments - look at www.MajidAli.com for one. He regularly challenges the NEJM and AMA on how they sell out to big pharm and are anti-scientific. Talk to him and see if you come away with the same opinion.

Thanks for the compliment. I try to see things rationally, and that includes looking at my own profession. I appreciate the scientific approach and value rigorous attempts to validate or invalidate specific claims. There are many areas in medicine in which such proof does not exist, including some in my specific area of practice.

I do not hold out QuackWatch to be a final resource, but one that I think takes a fairly balanced approach, if admittedly from a biased perspective which tends to embrace western medicine. It is a reasonable starting point, in any case.

My advice to all, regardless of the condition you may be confronting, is to inform yourself as best you can. Any "expert" can provide wrong, or incomplete advice, whether due to a limited perspective, or financial incentive. If you are dealing with a condition that appears to have a good record of response with traditional western medicine, I'd tend to stick with that. However, there are some conditions in which western medicine has at best a spotty record, and it is there that I might look more at alternatives.

And, as pointed out by many others, there is simply no substitute for healthy living up front! 

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