Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

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Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

The Silver Bear Cafe names it the Video of the Week!

More great analysis from strabes...and Max Keiser does an excellent job of keeping up!  Some "strabes snips" (paraphrased):

  • I'm opposed to neoclassical economic philosophy...this [$960 billion bail-out of Europe] is a good example of why.  The idea that people and their government give over their wealth and sovereignty to banking institutions so that people like Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein have more power than their government...we are going to rue the day that we ever allowed our government; our towns, counties and states, the basis of our republic, be taken over by a financial empire system.
  • Today we have a debt based system and neoclassical economics ignores this...it just assumes it away.
  • The IMF is a manufactured institution...it is designed to capture governments and gain control by putting them in ever greater debt...even more than the central banks.
  • The bond market is a huge centrifugal force that constantly centralizes wealth and power.
  • Peter Schiff is stuck in the Austrian framework which hasn't existed for 30-50 years where there is a divide between the private and public sector....Today, the Wall Street empire controls both the private and public sector...So, by attacking government, he's attacking the only hope we have of changing the system...we need to return to a republic form of government.  

!

Larry

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

I'm always amazed that you find my stuff before I do!  :)

just a few notes:

- it's centripetal, not centrifugal

- I actually think Schiff and I agree.  I just don't like his marketing pitch "private sector good, public sector bad."  That divide doesn't exist in our system today.  Plus, poor, powerless, marginalized people know the government is their only hope to keep private sector Wall St pirates from destroying them.  I wish Peter wouldn't turnoff that population of people by not upgrading our dialogue from the old govt vs. business framework.

- the thumbnail on the youtube video makes me look psycho. Foot in mouth

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Damon's use of the term 'eschatalogical' completely threw Max Keiser, who responded with 'ecclesiastical abritrage' ... then later said he would bring his thesaurus next time.

Nice yeoman work in the verb garden, dudes. Foot in mouth

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

You go, Strabes!!  I'm so proud! (must be the mother-hen in me!:).  Only thing is, why do they have that picture of a psycho with it?:)

Nice find, Larry!

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Setting aside the eschatalogical musings of a confessed sesquepedalian, I thought the interview was excellent!

Go get 'em, strabes!

Erik

 

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Great work Damon!  As Pinecarr said, proud to have you as a "friend"!  Keep it going and if you need support, let us know!  

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
strabes wrote:

I'm always amazed that you find my stuff before I do!  :)

just a few notes:

- it's centripetal, not centrifugal

- I actually think Schiff and I agree.  I just don't like his marketing pitch "private sector good, public sector bad."  That divide doesn't exist in our system today.  Plus, poor, powerless, marginalized people know the government is their only hope to keep private sector Wall St pirates from destroying them.  I wish Peter wouldn't turnoff that population of people by not upgrading our dialogue from the old govt vs. business framework.

- the thumbnail on the youtube video makes me look psycho. Foot in mouth

This is the problem I have with Ron Paul, too. I completely applaud his efforts and respect the fact that he's honest, but I cringe at what would happen if the many millions of people receiving food stamps were suddenly cut off. Corporate welfare and welfare for the disenfranchised should never be place under the same conceptual umbrella. It IS a new day and govt is the only potential compassionate agency that can handle the disruption that a corporatocracy has engendered.

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
agitating prop wrote:

This is the problem I have with Ron Paul, too. I completely applaud his efforts and respect the fact that he's honest, but I cringe at what would happen if the many millions of people receiving food stamps were suddenly cut off. Corporate welfare and welfare for the disenfranchised should never be place under the same conceptual umbrella. It IS a new day and govt is the only potential compassionate agency that can handle the disruption that a corporatocracy has engendered.

When did Ron Paul ever make such a claim?  He went to great lengths during his presidential campaign to say that people that are dependant on government would NOT BE SUDDENLY CUT OFF.  His suggestion was scaling back our empire and using the savings to help those that are dependant at home.

Government is the "only potential compassionate agency"...   Are you serious?  Individuals can be compassionate, governments not so much.

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
goes211 wrote:
agitating prop wrote:

This is the problem I have with Ron Paul, too. I completely applaud his efforts and respect the fact that he's honest, but I cringe at what would happen if the many millions of people receiving food stamps were suddenly cut off. Corporate welfare and welfare for the disenfranchised should never be place under the same conceptual umbrella. It IS a new day and govt is the only potential compassionate agency that can handle the disruption that a corporatocracy has engendered.

When did Ron Paul ever make such a claim?  He went to great lengths during his presidential campaign to say that people that are dependant on government would NOT BE SUDDENLY CUT OFF.  His suggestion was scaling back our empire and using the savings to help those that are dependant at home.

Government is the "only potential compassionate agency"...   Are you serious?  Individuals can be compassionate, governments not so much.

Individuals aren't agencies. Note I said potentially compassionate...oh and yes, I am serious.  Ron Paul has quoted Grover Norquist about shrinking govt to a size where it can be drowned in a bathtub.  Metaphorically, a quick drowning would be preferable to a slow drawn out death, for those dependent on govt.  A R.Paul govt might end up looking and feeling a lot like Dickensian England, but God bless him, for having his heart in the right place. 

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

And I thought you were just an armchair pundit. What's your end game?

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Unfortunately, we all are dependent on the government. Isn't that the problem?

Why do you think there are so many lobbyists?  And so much $ used to lobby?

I am a professional civil engineer (PE) with advanced degrees in materials engineering. The majority of my budget is due to government handouts, err funding.  My budget has been "cut-off". 

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
Quote:

Unfortunately, we all are dependent on the government. Isn't that the problem?

And governments are dependent on money...all of which today comes from private bankers in the form of debt.  The problem is that the large private sector banking institutions have power over governments and keep them, and therefore us, in debt bondage.

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
strabes wrote:
Quote:

Unfortunately, we all are dependent on the government. Isn't that the problem?

And governments are dependent on money...all of which today comes from private bankers in the form of debt.  The problem is that the large private sector banking institutions have power over governments and keep them, and therefore us, in debt bondage.

And those private mega corporations are dependent on our [developed world's] addictions to materialistic wealth, comfort and pleasure/satisfaction... so maybe we have kept ourselves in debt bondage. It's true that we have been "socialized" (manipulated) from an early age to think and behave this way, but is that really an excuse? I am hopeful that this paradigm is rapidly dying though. 

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
ashvinp wrote:

 ....but is that really an excuse? 

It's not an excuse. It's a valid reason. We do what we're taught. We don't know what we don't know until someone teaches us. Money mechanics and fiscal responsibility have purposely been not taught in our schools and the media has been barraging us with "for everything else, there's Mastercard" for three generations of Americans.

And no, I do not think the many will enjoy the knowledge of the few as we bang our heads against the wall of debt saturation. Even if we hit some sort of Mad Max scenario, the ones who understand what happened will still be the few. IMO.

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ashvinp wrote:

 

And those private mega corporations are dependent on our [developed world's] addictions to materialistic wealth, comfort and pleasure/satisfaction... so maybe we have kept ourselves in debt bondage. It's true that we have been "socialized" (manipulated) from an early age to think and behave this way, but is that really an excuse? I am hopeful that this paradigm is rapidly dying though. 

Wealth, comfort pleasure satisfaction? You have to be kidding. American society borders on anhedonia, it is so hyper competetive and work obsessed. Just because everything is bigger;  people, houses, big box stores, super-sized  vehicles, doesn't mean people are  more comfortable and satisfied. For the most part, they are and have been pretty miserable, both working for and purchasing from mega corporations. Their addictive behaviour is a way of dealing with the disequilibriums that have been imposed on them through corporate control of the legislative, judicial, and executive branches of govt. Yes, imposed on them. Nobody asked them, for example, if corporations should be granted the legal status of persons. Point me to the referendum on that one, and the referendum ceding media control to megacorporations through the F.C.C. These impose huge distortions on the lives of the individual.

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
agitating prop wrote:
ashvinp wrote:

And those private mega corporations are dependent on our [developed world's] addictions to materialistic wealth, comfort and pleasure/satisfaction... so maybe we have kept ourselves in debt bondage. It's true that we have been "socialized" (manipulated) from an early age to think and behave this way, but is that really an excuse? I am hopeful that this paradigm is rapidly dying though. 

Wealth, comfort pleasure satisfaction? You have to be kidding. American society borders on anhedonia, it is so hyper competetive and work obsessed. Just because everything is bigger;  people, houses, big box stores, super-sized  vehicles, doesn't mean people are  more comfortable and satisfied. 

TESTIFY, A.P.!!

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agitating prop wrote:
ashvinp wrote:

 

And those private mega corporations are dependent on our [developed world's] addictions to materialistic wealth, comfort and pleasure/satisfaction... so maybe we have kept ourselves in debt bondage. It's true that we have been "socialized" (manipulated) from an early age to think and behave this way, but is that really an excuse? I am hopeful that this paradigm is rapidly dying though. 

Wealth, comfort pleasure satisfaction? You have to be kidding. American society borders on anhedonia, it is so hyper competetive and work obsessed. Just because everything is bigger;  people, houses, big box stores, super-sized  vehicles, doesn't mean people are  more comfortable and satisfied. For the most part, they are and have been pretty miserable, both working for and purchasing from mega corporations. Their addictive behaviour is a way of dealing with the disequilibriums that have been imposed on them through corporate control of the legislative, judicial, and executive branches of govt. Yes, imposed on them. Nobody asked them, for example, if corporations should be granted the legal status of persons. Point me to the referendum on that one, and the referendum ceding media control to megacorporations through the F.C.C. These impose huge distortions on the lives of the individual.

You missed the key word in that phrase - materialistic. I don't think any of those things ultimately help people's psychological (or you could call it spiritual) well being. Maybe they are so miserable because they implicitly recognize the price they and their fellow beings have to pay for a comfortable existence. But you can't tell me they have no choice when millions of people have chosen to live differently. And nobody has forced the material wealth addicts to continue voting for corrupted incumbents in government, or to continue using credit cards and giving their money to large corporations and financial institutions.

There was certainly a time in our country's history where we could have chosen responsibility and active participation over material pleasure and passive acceptance. It could have been as simple as most people keeping themselves informed (I'm sure most Americans still don't know corporations are treated as legal persons under the Constitution). You never heard many people complaining when our corporations and government enslaved/invaded poorer countries for natural resources that fueled our SUVs and suburban lifestyle. Now that these suburbanites are the ones being targeted for massive wealth transfers, all they can do is complain. Trust me I despise the corpotocracy as much as anyone else, but ultimately there is noone left to point the finger at but ourselves.

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
agitating wrote:

Their addictive behaviour is a way of dealing with the disequilibriums that have been imposed on them

excellent way to put it.  I may borrow that phrase during interviews.  :) 

it is literally a disequilibrium.  we're all in the dictatorship of P < P+I (an inequality, i.e. the state of diseq) since all money comes from debt.  this has a powerful impact on our lives and there's no escape unless we change the system.

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Ashvinp, Yes, I agree with you that people should have kept themselves informed.   Instead, they had 2.2 kids, bought the big house, got the big mortgage, worked 10 hour days in indifferent, impersonal, work places. Instead of agitating for change, they sought solace in pizza and  politically passive mainstream media. It's sad. But can you blame these people for having a certain amount of trust in the social contract, that seemed to work, albeit imperfectly, through their formative years? 

It's very difficult for people to change their world view, as most are not independent thinkers. If you are, give yourself a huge pat on the back and thank your genes, your will, your intellect, or the alignment of the stars.   The next few years are going to give nearly everyone, particularly mainstream thinkers, tremendous opportunities to fine tune or radically change their understanding, both of themselves and their world, as they scarf down their rice and beans. Materialism won't be an option. You've heard of the Voluntary Simplicity movement? There's a new movement out there and nobody wants to be a member. It's the Involuntary Simplicity movement. 

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Damon said in the interview:

"...Today, the Wall Street empire controls both the private and public sector...So, by attacking government, he's attacking the only hope we have of changing the system...we need to return to a republic form of government."

An important point for sure...we need to return to the rule of law (republic) and limited government authority as opposed to rule by whim.  Understandably, people have lost confidence in government as our nation has become a client state of the international banking cartel under the franchise of the Federal Reserve.

The age old question continues to loom over us...are people capable of governing themselves as a sovereign nation?  An integral part of that is the ability to govern our finances; the issue and control of money.  "Whoever controls the volume of money in any country is absolute master of all industry and commerce"  - President James A. Garfield.

It seems to me that alternatives to our financial and political problems may have been more commonly understood prior to the 1920's.  The sovereign issuance and control of money was a more widely discussed topic.  Somehow, we are suffering a collective amnesia.  For example, the Westminster Review published a paper entitled "The mint and the Bank of England” in 1873:

"In breaking this monopoly of the bank we should be taking a great stride toward the attainment of that ideal system of currency which Sir Robert Peel must have had in his heart when he passed his currency laws; a system under which the state shall be the sole fountain of issue, under which no money shall circulate on credit, or, if it does, shall circulate on the credit of the state, all bank-notes, as well as coins, bearing the image and superscription of the head of the state, and under which all profits upon the issue of money shall form part of the imperial revenue.

The power of issue is, and ought to be, a sovereign right...The power of issue now exercised by the Bank of England, and by the English, Irish, and Scotch banks, is a relic of feudalism, and of those rough and rude times when every prelate and noble set up a mint under the shadow of his palace or castle, coined money in their own names as grantees of the king and appropriated the profit of their mints as they appropriated the rent of their estates."

Prior to 1900, the U.S. government basically paid for itself primarily through seigniorage and tariffs.  Seigniorage is a fee on the issuance of new money.  This type of system could eliminate fractional lending while maintaining a flow of money consistent with the needs of the people and commerce.

By issuing our own money, we can eliminate all income and employment taxes and the national debt would cease to exist.  The national debt has always been a national fraud.

Larry

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Larry

The age old question is not if the people are capable of governing themselves it is " do they even want to?"

V

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
strabes wrote:
agitating wrote:

Their addictive behaviour is a way of dealing with the disequilibriums that have been imposed on them

excellent way to put it.  I may borrow that phrase during interviews.  :) 

it is literally a disequilibrium.  we're all in the dictatorship of P < P+I (an inequality, i.e. the state of diseq) since all money comes from debt.  this has a powerful impact on our lives and there's no escape unless we change the system.

Sadly, I feel it's only fair to inform you that Kaiser used that very same word in his interview with you. I just watched it.. . Bummer!Embarassed

Fantastic interview, btw. Imagine having to watch Russian television to get more accurate information! Crazy!

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
agitating prop wrote:

Ashvinp, Yes, I agree with you

Thanks that's all I needed to hear...

lol nah just playing.

You're right that it's a lot easier said than done to be an independent thinker and decouple from the materialistic culture we were born into. I certainly know that I have not completely done so yet, so I'm still being a hypocrite and only preaching what I would like to practice. Fortunately, you are also right about the involuntary simplicity that will forced on the population and I have high hopes for a much more sustainable, respectful paradigm to emerge. I only wish we could have saved more people from the debt-fueled corpotocracy before it got this far...

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
ashvinp wrote:
agitating prop wrote:

Ashvinp, Yes, I agree with you

Thanks that's all I needed to hear...

lol nah just playing.

I'm still being a hypocrite.  Fortunately, you are also right

LOL. I knew I'd get you to admit it eventually!Wink

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

V wrote:

The age old question is not if the people are capable of governing themselves it is " do they even want to?"

Damn...what a troubling question...

It does take some time and occasionally some skin, but I would hope we value life enough to be good stewards of nature, economics and civilization.  How do we ensure a good life for our families, friends and future generations unless we get involved?

And what is the alternative?  Do we hope for a benevolent dictatorship or moneyed aristocrats to take care of us and our families?

I know I haven't answered your question.  Maybe I'm naive but I can't imagine that most people are intellectual and spiritual zombies...are they?

Larry       

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Hi Strabes,

I rarely watch television, but I was travelling and turned on the TV late at night and by coincidence watched your interview, which I found very interesting. One topic that you started delve into when you said" and this is the subject of eschatalogical religions" (maybe I'm getting the wording wrong), but then Max Keiser changed the subject. Can you expand on what you were going to say?

John

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

John, in that moment I wanted to introduce the idea of hope into the dialogue that's otherwise dominated by fear, anxiety, and hopelessness about the banking powers. 

Eschatology is the study of the ultimate end of time, if you think there will be one, so I was briefly injecting the notion of higher powers and spirituality into our public media which has shutout any discussion of such things.  I didn't intend to discuss it any further.  It was to tickle the airwaves with the idea that "oh my gosh...it's ok to talk about higher order things" instead of the same ole stale economics/markets/numbers debates that will take us nowhere. 

I actually think we're in a grand battle between darkness and light (spiritualize it or not, it doesn't matter...even on a purely secular basis it's obvious some pretty dark people are driving this process).  If a bottom-up enlightenment happens, darkness has no chance.  So my intent was to start stirring the millions toward light by transcending the media template and social pressure.  My hope is that others who want to be moral, spiritual, religious, good, whatever will feel more confident to publicly engage in such dialogue.

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Larry

Look around, you tell me.

V

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)
strabes wrote:

John, in that moment I wanted to introduce the idea of hope into the dialogue that's otherwise dominated by fear, anxiety, and hopelessness about the banking powers. 

Eschatology is the study of the ultimate end of time, if you think there will be one, so I was briefly injecting the notion of higher powers and spirituality into our public media which has shutout any discussion of such things.  I didn't intend to discuss it any further.  It was to tickle the airwaves with the idea that "oh my gosh...it's ok to talk about higher order things" instead of the same ole stale economics/markets/numbers debates that will take us nowhere. 

I actually think we're in a grand battle between darkness and light (spiritualize it or not, it doesn't matter...even on a purely secular basis it's obvious some pretty dark people are driving this process).  If a bottom-up enlightenment happens, darkness has no chance.  So my intent was to start stirring the millions toward light by transcending the media template and social pressure.  My hope is that others who want to be moral, spiritual, religious, good, whatever will feel more confident to publicly engage in such dialogue.

This is a very interesting topic. Introducing subtle spiritual elements, in an academic manner and through scholarly means is desperately needed. The potential danger of framing  an economic unravelling as a pitched battle of light versus dark  can be an encouragement of fundamentalism, that can easily be reworked into nationalism, fire breathing- war mongering evangelism, New Age fascism,etc...Most here are aware of at least some of these dangers. 

The ones who have to be reached are those who are too receptive to propaganda, too servile and slavish to "the man". It may be impossible to reach them if they are too embedded in their own belief.  They may have to simply live through the consequences of their naivete. It will be a mass disintegrative experience, the end result of which could be very positive for them, should they reintegrate along more humane compassionate lines. As cruel as it may sound, the soldiers from Christian fundamentalist  families, hell bent (literally) on controlling the Middle East, in a kind of modern day Crusades war, are suffering the logical end result of that belief system. The cruelty of the Bush administration, in particular, working through them, is rebounding on them. It's a process that stimulates understanding of a very primary kind. Hopefully, as the expression goes, they will become better, not bitter.

This is interesting:--Positive Disintegration:

The Theory of Positive Disintegration (TPD) by Kazimierz Dąbrowski describes a theory of personality development. Unlike mainstream psychology, Dąbrowski's theoretical framework views psychological tension and anxiety as necessary for growth. These "disintegrative" processes are therefore seen as "positive," whereas people who fail to go through positive disintegration may remain for their entire lives in a state of "primary integration." Advancing into disintegration and into the higher levels of development is predicated on having developmental potential, including overexcitabilities, above-average reactions to stimuli. Unlike some other theories of development such as Erikson's stages of psychosocial development, it is not assumed that even a majority of people progress through all levels. TPD is not a theory of stages, and levels do not correlate with age.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_Disintegration

If one regards people, in the way Dabrowski describes above, we can move beyond concepts of  good and evil when dealing with one another, and see that we are all in the process of change. Our focus on evil should be reserved exclusively for those at the very apex, ready and willing to sacrifice us, one way or another, for their own interests. 

We are all brothers in arms in the battle of being spiritually evolving human beings.We have to ameliorate our own desire to frame those who have bought into a dark system as being primarily dark,  themselves, and regard them as potential. They have potential for great change as they are often quite positively oriented.  These are the individuals that you would like to reach through the churches.

 The churches HAVE to ditch nationalism, and withdraw moral support for war in foreign lands, or they are going to start losing their own market share. Their rallying cry should be "support our troops by bringing them home.!" They have the institutional framework to help people on a local level, through voluntary use of manpower and donations. Through sermons, they can pound home the themes of buying and lending, locally, supporting small businesses, boycotting mega corporations like Mal Wart, that have done nothing but suck the life blood out of America. They  have the pulpit to expand on the theme of evil as a top down phenomenon, not right or left, or racial. 

I consider myself a "spiritual" person, but know that my spirit is limited by isolation, by not being part of a community of like minded individuals who actively engage the larger community and neighbourhood through helping others practically. Even though I don't consider myself primarily Christian particularly, I like and respect Jesus Christ and I would get involved in any church that preaches the right message, and fights what I consider the good fight.

 

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Re: Max Keiser interviews Damon Vrabel (our strabes)

Hi Strabes,

Thanks for the explanation. I think it is a brave effort to bring religion and the supernatural/spiritual into television discussions, since it is so extremely fround upon, and is a very strong source for hope. But I think it is very important for people to have the appropriate support structure. One type of community I think will survive, and may even become a model for community in the coming decades - despite the coming depression - is the Opus Dei (yes the famed Catholic "cult" from the Da Vinci Code!). I used to attend their weekly meditations when I was a teen, and after a 12 year hiatus, I recently met one of the numeraries for lunch. During our conversation it dawned on me that this community is ideally suited to survive the coming collapse.

Firstly, Opus Dei  (http://www.opusdei.org/) is a personal prelature of the Catholic Church that helps people seek holiness in their work and ordinary activities. So, as a goal these people set high personal standards for doing good in everyday life. Each person who comes into the Opus dei is offerred a spiritual director (a priest), who guides them in their spiritual development - much like a coach who coaches an athelete.

Secondly, - organizationally, Opus Dei has priests, numeraries (like monks/nuns but who live and work in society) who dedicate their lives to the community, and families who participate and benefit from the community. Their network of communities all over the world, allow for anyone anywhere to get in touch with the local Opus dei residence, which acts as a support structure for maintaining a culture which is capabable of surviving very difficult situations, like the one looming.

In any case - I know this is not most peoples piece of cake, but if we are to talk about hope, and if we are to talk about spirituality - there are existing communities, like the Opus Dei, that are already - in my opinion - part of the neo-enlightenment.

John

 

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