Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

34 posts / 0 new
Last post
straight's picture
straight
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Posts: 103
Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Morpheus: This is your last chance. After this, there is no turning back. You take the blue pill - the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill - you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes.

CM provided me with part of the red pill.... he helped me see the Matrix for what it is.  Now i feel like Neo, able to see the numbers for what they are... able to dodge the bullets.  But I want more, I want to create the code to define the new reality. 

When you get your copy of the Crash Course video and you give it to your sister and your brother and your neighbor and your boss i suggest that you may be inundated with requests for answers about the future.  I suggest that you may get a more attentive audience if you can offer some new stories of hope to counter the stories of despair you will be confronted with. I suggest that new stories are the new code for the new reality.

The old stories didn’t work.  The Crash Course shows that.

This is a link to a preview of  'what a way to go, life at the end of empire' . [youtube]

In this fantastic movie the power of stories is brought to the for, as are the stories themselves. I suggest that modern stories defining 'what it means to be in the world' need to be retold, rewritten. 

What we need to do is flesh out those stories.  We need to tell the story of an achievable life in which we live in houses that are essentially free and which will still be standing in 600 years.  We need to tell the story of planting food forests which will sustain themselves and still be with us in 2000 years. We need stories of being part of the 'one', of being connected to each other and to the systems that support us. We need to tell the story of a life of abundance for all. We need stories of a human future, not a corporate one.  We need to tell stories of acceptance and support, not of greed and denial.

I can tell you those stories. Those stories exist. Those stories are real. 

I can build you a house that will cost you next to nothing and still be standing in 600 years.  I can show you how to plant a food forrest which you can live from now, then walk away from and come back in 2000 years and still eat the fruit.  I can design you a transport system which will not only give you essentially free domestic and international travel, it will pave the way for local community and equality for all.  I can tell you the story of free energy which will power a house and a car from an appliance with no moving parts which you can braze up in your garage, an applicance that many European communities had at the turn of the previous century.

I can do this because i stand on the shoulders of giants, as do you.

This is not news, this is 'olds'. This is history not technology.  We had all this once.  We can have it again...and so much more...  and we can have it for 7 billion people.

Morpheus: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.

 

 

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Welcome to the Matrix straight..... Good to see the idea of the Matrix catching on...!

" We need to tell the story of an achievable life in which we live in houses that are essentially free and which will still be standing in 600 years. We need to tell the story of planting food forests which will sustain themselves and still be with us in 2000 years. We need stories of being part of the 'one', of being connected to each other and to the systems that support us. We need to tell the story of a life of abundance for all. We need stories of a human future, not a corporate one. We need to tell stories of acceptance and support, not of greed and denial." Sounds like Permaculture to me.....

I saw this coming 20 years ago, and embarked on our story 15 years ago, and built it over the past 6. You can see some of it here

Maenad's picture
Maenad
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 18 2008
Posts: 43
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Count me in, or out rather. Wink

Our real estate agent just rang to say we're going to be evicted if we don't come up with $800 tomorrow. We haven't finished paying back the money we borrowed the last time we were very late with the rent.  I have a three month old baby and a  5 year old son and I don't know what we are going to do. Frown

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?
Bugger.......  Don't you sometimes wish it would just all fall over while you're asleep at night...?
switters's picture
switters
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 19 2008
Posts: 744
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

What a Way To Go, Life At the End of Empire is an excellent film and one of the first I recommend to people who are new to these subjects.  It is the broadest overview of the challenges we face, yet it is also very personal and has perhaps the strongest emotional impact of any of the PO films I've seen.  I highly recommend it if you haven't already watched it.

Order it here: http://www.whatawaytogomovie.com/ 

joe2baba's picture
joe2baba
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 17 2008
Posts: 807
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

thanks mike i bookmarked your site

good job i will send your link to my friends in oz. they are on the same page.

straight's picture
straight
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 25 2008
Posts: 103
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

I guess my question 'Are you Neo?' was intended to suggest that we can, if we choose, redefine the matrix. 

Yes I am a supporter of Permaculture having done my PDC [permaculture design course] with Bill Mollison and Geoff Lawnton.  Sitting in a room listening to Bill tell his stories of pronouncing himself dead to his family and setting off to roam the world bare foot in a quest to learn and teach to and from those less fortunate in countries like India, the power of having nothing struck me.  The freedom of having no momentum in life struck me. 

It is my own belief that once we know the matrix for what it is, once we see the code that defines the artificial reality which is modern finance, we can, if we choose, move independent of it.  I have no job in the face of the biggest turn down in the economy for many a decade, and i have nothing to fear. 

I believe the mainstream is opt in, not opt out.  We are HUMANS first, tenants, taxpayers and consumers second!

You are going to think I'm crazy when i say this, but i have experienced it first hand.  When you have nothing, stuff appears.  When you have no TV, someone will give you one.  When you have no car, someone will give you one.  When you have no home, someone will give you one. 

People, are good.  People are trustworthy.  People are supportive and loving and warm and generous.  The environment that our governments have created at the behest of corporate profit have lead us to believe otherwise, but i firmly believe it is true.  Humans, by their very nature, want to help you and me.  Period.  That's it.  There is no more.  It is that easy and it is that hard.  The gaps are yours to fill in.  The gaps are yours to fill in with stories of a better world.  The old world is meaningless, if we choose to give it no meaning, because it is only our meaning that matters!  Nothing else matters. 

Does a tree make any sound when it falls in the Forest with no one around?  Does and empty house have a meaning if no one is around?  Does a store have any meaning if there is no one around?  Does a veggie patch have any meaning if there is no one around?  Does a life have any meaning if there is no one around? 

 

 

 

dutch_animatrix_boy9's picture
dutch_animatrix_boy9
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 20 2008
Posts: 1
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

To all believers,

 

Is there still some one out there who can help me? A lot of things happend after 'our' trilogy.

I think (better yet, I know) I'm bugged. My social life is wrecked. Somewhere along the road me and my big mouth went and tested the conspiracies. I want out so I need help. A lot!!!

I apologize for my terrible english.

 

Neo, I still believe!

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?
straight wrote:

I guess my question 'Are you Neo?' was intended to suggest that we can, if we choose, redefine the matrix.

Damn right..... Damn good post too.  You should call yourself Damn Sraight!  Are you Australian too by any chance? 

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: The Matrix

Money is the core belief of the matrix. It is not real, neither are value, comodity, debt, credit, ownership, civilasation, economics and many other words in common parlance. They are all ideas, concepts if you like. The only place I can find where money is closely related to anything in reality is when people are prepared to do or act for it. Presumably in the belief that they can have others do for them. Bake bread, clean, grow etc.

I dissagree with Chris when he says we can't have growth and debt forever in a finite world. We couldn't if it was part of a finite world but it isn't - its in the matrix - just an idea that seems so prevalent in our lives that it feels "real".

We started with dollars then tens then hundreds ..... to trillions now. It doesn't have to end and it probably won't so long as people are sucked into the matrix (like) belief system.

Don

__________________________________________________________________

If I printed hundreds of dollars and gave them to my friends I would be locked up (as an anrkyst?), Trillions though - thats leadership.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: The Matrix
pir8don wrote:

Money is the core belief of the matrix. It is not real, neither are value, comodity, debt, credit, ownership, civilasation, economics and many other words in common parlance. They are all ideas, concepts if you like. The only place I can find where money is closely related to anything in reality is when people are prepared to do or act for it. Presumably in the belief that they can have others do for them. Bake bread, clean, grow etc.

I dissagree with Chris when he says we can't have growth and debt forever in a finite world.

Really Don?  So all the houses being built around me are imaginary?  Stoopid me......  You'd think I'd know better than to live in the Matrix! 

gyrogearloose's picture
gyrogearloose
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 549
Re: The Matrix
pir8don wrote:

 

I dissagree with Chris when he says we can't have growth and debt forever in a finite world. We couldn't if it was part of a finite world but it isn't - its in the matrix - just an idea that seems so prevalent in our lives that it feels "real".

We started with dollars then tens then hundreds ..... to trillions now. It doesn't have to end and it probably won't so long as people are sucked into the matrix (like) belief system.

Don

__________________________________________________________________

If I printed hundreds of dollars and gave them to my friends I would be locked up (as an anrkyst?), Trillions though - thats leadership.

Unless you are being facetious as a joke about the matrix you are wrong. ( I sometimes find it hard to spot sarcasm )

Chris is absolutely right when he says we can't growth forever in a finite world. Follow the links on exponential growth and look at human population." At 1.6 % growth, in 760 years there would be 1 person for every square meter of land" ( from memory )

If you don't consider that a limit, say we develop interstellar then inter galactic "beam me up Scotty" technology, would you care to work out how long before there is 1 person-per sqM of every planet in the universe ?

However when it comes to dollars I know of no limit to how high a denomination you can print, care for a 10^10^10^10 dollar note anyone ? It might just buy you a jelly bean Laughing ( well actually come to think about it, you will eventually run out of space on the note at its current size, care to try for a note the size of the universe !!!!! )

 

And you would be locked up as a counterfeiter.... They made the rules remember.

Hamish

KKPSTEIN's picture
KKPSTEIN
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2008
Posts: 120
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Awesome post.   I like your point of view.  I welcome everyone to read and post comments on my blog on MySpace Titled:

The movie, The Matrix; its Concepts & Symbolism

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=383732848

Please add me as a friend!

 

 

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: The Matrix

When I say I dissagree with Chris about infinite growth I mean of money, debt, credit or any other idea (in the matrix) and no joke in intended. People doing work acting (building houses) for money (to be paid) are simply expressing their belief in what is becoming the matrix. When I used "fictional abhorrents" to describe these concepts some time ago, it didn't seem to get through. I'm not sure that the "matrix" description is doing much better judging by some replies. But I persist.

Of course human population can not grow for ever. But any idea can. Money (economics) is an idea.

Don

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: The Matrix
gyrogearloose wrote:

Unless you are being facetious as a joke about the matrix you are wrong. ( I sometimes find it hard to spot sarcasm )

Chris is absolutely right when he says we can't growth forever in a finite world. Follow the links on exponential growth and look at human population." At 1.6 % growth, in 760 years there would be 1 person for every square meter of land" ( from memory )

In fact, (and I'm not trying to outdo you here Hamish!) I once saw calculations by Ehrlich which showed that if population continued growing like this for x years (can't remember the exact number, not relevant really) the mass of the human race would exceed the mass of the Universe......! 

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi KKPSTEIN, I would like to read your thoughts but I don't belong to myspace and don't realy want to. Are they anywhere else? Have you seen http://members.mountain.net/theanalyticpapers/matrix8.htm ?

Don

Fictional abbhorents should be "fictional abberants". Made the mistake of asking my partner for spelling. I'm feeling self concious about spellin now Mike.

gyrogearloose's picture
gyrogearloose
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 549
Re: The Matrix
pir8don wrote:

When I say I dissagree with Chris about infinite growth I mean of money, debt, credit or any other idea (in the matrix)

Ok, trying to get my head around where you are coming from.

I can't see people accepting even massive growth of money ( a la Zimbabwe ) without rebelling and rejecting it ( and going back to gold Wink )  Same for debt. Recent experience has shown an amazing tolerance for credit growth.Foot in mouth

Hamish

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: The Matrix

Hi gyrogearloose

I thought one of the points of the matrix is what people will accept if they believe in a fictional reality. An "amazing tolerance" for credit growth is to be expected of believers.

Don

KKPSTEIN's picture
KKPSTEIN
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2008
Posts: 120
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi Pir8don,

 I have just made my profle public and therefore you can view the MySpace blog at:

http://blogs.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=383732848&blogID=444625005

Best!

Kirsty

 

gyrogearloose's picture
gyrogearloose
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 549
Re: The Matrix

Don

think I will bow out here, can't seem to twist my mind...

Cheers Spock

 

oops I meant Hamish

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?
pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: The Matrix

Thats OK gyrogearloose keep taking the blue pill.

Don

gyrogearloose's picture
gyrogearloose
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 549
Re: The Matrix

But I have been taking the red pills....you mean those red pills are actually blue ?????????

Hamish

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi Kirsty

I have given your blog a read and agree with much of what is said although you are obviously a generation (or two) ahead of me and much of the language is not my own. Not sure about the "born free" bit but if I understand you your meaning is without beliefs and I can accept that. Unless we recognise money as near or at the core of the Matrix we are assentially taking the blue pill.

My specific interest is in where money relates to what I understand as the real world. Where people do, grow, shelter, build and gather together. In tribal days we would have thought a fool anyone who traded for what they need and therefore be dependent on strangers. We are nearly all fools now. We fail to recognise that materials in the real world are like the sea and not able to be bought or sold other than in the Matrix. They may change their form as a result of human effort but they don't cease or come to exit. All money does is to entice people to act in its name. Build houses, bake bread, pump oil etc.

If I buy any existing comodity then all that is happening is that my name replaces that of another and I am said to be the owner. Buy comodity and owner are of course concepts of the developing and all pervasive matrix.

Humans have been tribal for many millenia. We had elders not leaders. All previous civilisations failed as this one is and people previously returned to the bush and resumed tribal living. The same will happen this time but a lot of people must be lost on the way (almost certainly including me and mine) as the planet has nearly 7 billion of us where only 1 or so are sustainable without extracted carbon. How this will come about I have no certain idea but happen it must for our planet to be habitable to our species. We accepted that water can not be safely drunk now its the air that can not be safely breathed.

Don

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: The Matrix

Very good reply gyrogearloose. Perhaps we have two matrixs one for the blue pill and one for the red and maybe another for green - hell lets use the rainbow. Yours and mine, theirs.

Don

KKPSTEIN's picture
KKPSTEIN
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2008
Posts: 120
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi Don, By "born free", I mean the same thing you do.  If a European newborn infant were rescued by an Apache Indian in the 1800's and completely raised on Apache traditions, spirituality, etc.  That child would grow into an adult that would have learned to have a great spiritual and physical respect for nature and the planet.  I meant the same thing as you mean when you say we have been tribal.  We physically have not evolved much since thousands of years ago.  Our differences now are learned attitudes, social conditioning, etc.In my opinion for example, children at the majority of schools from K-grade 12 are taught how to be employees.  Basically our education system is set up to teach children to be slaves.  Our fiat currency and banking systems further keep us enslaved with credit ratings and mortgages.  The word "savings" is never discussed anymore.  50 years ago, it was frowned upon to be in any kind of debt.  People would look at you sideways if you had to buy on credit.  Most people had savings, however meagre, but they were still storing up for potential droughts, bad times, etc.  In our times, most people carry debt.  I believe the average household in America carries 100,000.00 in debt.  There has been a huge switch in our value system in a matter of 50 years.  With the power of the media, it seems like our attitudes are changing at an exponential growth level also, which is pretty scary when you consider the power the media holds today in western culture.I didn’t know what you meant by a generation or two ahead.  Did you mean age or metaphorically in my belief system?Did you visit my profile on MySpace?   http://www.myspace.com/getpaidtosave    Or just the blog?  Best!Kirsty

 

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi again Kirsty

about age; I had gone off your picture just on the Matrix bit in which you look younger than me (I am 56). Thats what I mean by generation(s?) ahead. Now have read some of your profile and learn't more. You are of a very different character to me but I find nothing in your post below to dissagree with accepting gold as having any use in reality. Gold only has value in an agreed reality but the reality on which we mostly agree now is the Matrix. 

Some retorical questions

Why do we feel safer out of debt than it? Why do we feel unsafe being in debt but more safe when we buy food from a store? Take away money and we may survive. Take away food and we won't. Are debt and credit still meaningful terms even in the Matrix now that debt has be cancelled by printing money (a la fed)? You are right that most of our beliefs about money come from when it was young and not the monster it has become. The survivors may mature in their beliefs about money but I doubt it will be painless.

Don www.kiwibog.com

_____________________________________________________________________________

 And those that create out of the haulicaust of their inheritance, anything more than a convenient self-made tomb, shall be known as survivors. From a Keith Jarrett LP cover The Survivors Suite

KKPSTEIN's picture
KKPSTEIN
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2008
Posts: 120
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi Don,

I was thinking about your line of rhetorical questions and I do have a response (the irony is not lost on me that this now renders the questions non-rhetorical).

You are right that we need food to survive.  This is the sacred order that per the ancient Apache Indian ways we need to follow to survive in any circumstance:  Shelter, water, food and fire.  People can die from exposure in less than an hour hot or cold, unprepared, in extreme temperatures.  Our brain slowly begins to shut down after 24 hours with no water.  We can go about 2 weeks with no food without getting sick. Now having said that, imagine we are living off the grid in an environment completely “unplugged” from the Matrix.  Imagine, enough time has gone by that there is no longer chaos and there is an estabished order.  Like Zion in the movie.  Even though there will be a healthy free market (which in currently referred to as “the black market” in Western culture – clever double speak there) and the barter system will be alive and well, gold and silver will still play a roll.  This is why I belive this.  Gold is a pure element of the earth that has always reflected men and women’s labor.  It’s not easy to acquire (labour involved in mining it).  It cannot be printed, manufactured or produced as it occurs naturally in nature.  It is limited in quantity.  It is waterproof, illustrious to the eye and doesn’t disintegrate over time.  People find gold coins that have been at the bottom of the ocean for hundreds of years and they are completely intact with very little environmental damage.  Gold is relatively handy to carry.  Rather than cross the country with 4 wagons full of possessions, 4 cows, 10 chickens, etc.  Just carry the gold and trade it for items at your destination.  And it’s been money for over 5,000 years.

Best!

Kirsty

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Sorry still not convinced. Don't know about indians for sure but maori got by without gold no problems and our history is a lot more than 5,0000 years as a species. We have been trained to focus on civilisations when its tribal people that we are deep in our being. I believe "free market" and "healthy" can not cohabitate because fee market is a term from the matrix (for me). Sure we can trade for what we want but we are fools if we trade for what we need. Nice trinkets yes, food, shelter etc. No way. Trading would/ will be only a very pheriferal activity if/when we work to live without any intermediary.

Don

KKPSTEIN's picture
KKPSTEIN
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2008
Posts: 120
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi Don,

With your definition of unplugged meaning that absolutey no modern systems, political or otherwise can be used, then I agree with you.   The movie didn't really go into a great explanation of how Zion pre-utopian society functioned, etc.  It didn't go into what their medical system was or how the distribution of food worked.  Your definition of unplugged seems to be more of absolute self sufficiency in the obtaining shelter, food, etc.  Not all of us can do that and it would obviously take a whole new skill set to accomplish.

Best!

Kirsty

 

pir8don's picture
pir8don
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 30 2008
Posts: 456
Re: Martenson defines the Matrix... are you Neo?

Hi Kirsty

You are right both about my expectations of the future (none of us know of course) and that we don't have the skills. Which might be how (hunger and cold) that the planet's population will dwindle to at most 1 billion sustainable but over what time frame I have no idea. If we are very lucky we will be returning to what we have always been - tribal people living within our own local resource boundaries.

Don

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments