LETS on TV

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Crash's picture
Crash
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LETS on TV

LETS stands for Local Exchange Trading Scheme and is an alternative to our current interest-bearing debt-based economy.

In
a LETS, you sell you goods and services for a currency owned by the
community. No interest is charged and there is never any money-supply
problems.

LETS got another mention on TV today, go here to see:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00jjkt6/working_lunch_23_03_2009/

 

Crash

yoshhash's picture
yoshhash
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Re: LETS on TV

Hey Crash,

This is awesome.  Nice to see another fan of LETS and barter on here too- I tried bringing it up once before but it garnered almost no interest.  I'm suprised that a forum which features discussion of collapse of a currency system does not find more activity in formulating alternatives.

Crash's picture
Crash
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Re: LETS on TV

Hi Yoshhash,

 

Yes, we had a little conversation a while back about alternative currencies, but there was not much take-up. Nice to see you on here,

 

have you seen www.justfortheloveofit.org which is the homepage of Freeconomy, like a LETS with no points. More idealistic, less practical perhaps, but I like it.

 

Blessings,

 

Crash 

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pleaseremoveme
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Re: LETS on TV

People should think of ways to create huge for profit complementary currency systems. These small idealistic initiatives are never going to change the world.

Crash's picture
Crash
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Re: LETS on TV
woupiestek wrote:

People should think of ways to create huge for profit complementary currency systems. These small idealistic initiatives are never going to change the world.

 

Can you think of any huge for-profit complementary currency systems with world-changing potential? and how would they change the world? 

 

Crash 

yoshhash's picture
yoshhash
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Re: LETS on TV

Although I think for-profit has the added benefit of providing motivation, Crash is right- some ideas may be too idealistic, but it is way better than passively sitting back and accepting this flawed currency system drag us down, without a backup.  Thank god someone has the courage to instigate actual models.

Personally, having just bought a house in Windsor, I discovered a massive barter community there, combined with Detroit, there are hundreds, perhaps thousands of listings- genuinely practical and everyday useful goods and services.  Not sure about the rest of the world, but it definitely seems to have found critical mass there.  I am so pleased.

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Vanityfox451
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Re: LETS on TV

Hi Crash,

I'm going to try my hand at answering your question :-

" Can you think of any huge for-profit complementary currency systems with world-changing potential? and how would they change the world? " 

Now there are two long reads that can't be escaped from and need some understanding not just by you but also by anyone else reading through this thread. If this is now the time at CM.com for something like this to gain more notice, then I'm back again to try my hand.

I keep throwing this into the mix on related threads and seeing what comes of it :-

An Interview With Bernard Lietaer

http://uazu.net/money/lietaer.html

(...snippet...)

"...there are about 300 or 400 private currency systems in
Japan to pay for any care for the elderly that isn't covered by the
national health insurance. They are called "fureai kippu" (caring
relationship tickets). Here's how they work: let's say that on my
street lives an elderly gentleman who is handicapped and cannot go
shopping for himself. I do the shopping for him. I help him with food
preparation. I help him with the ritual bath, which is very important
in Japan. For this help, I get credits. I put those credits in a
savings account, and when I'm sick, I can have other people provide
such services for me. Or I can electronically send my credits to my
mother, who lives on the other side of the country, and somebody
takes care of her.

Here is an agreement within a community to use as medium of payment
something other than national currencies, to solve a social problem.
And it makes it possible for hundreds of thousands of people to stay
in their homes much longer than they otherwise could. Otherwise,
you'd have to put most of these people into a home for seniors, which
costs an arm and a leg to society, and they're unhappy there. So
nobody's winning. In contrast, Japan has created a currency for
elderly care. "

In the UK, especially in the south, there is a huge ageing population. The government helps private groups to set up 'Old People's Retirement Homes' and, in so doing, and if they have no family to support them (the usual case when the cost of living has sky-rocketed with inflation and tax!!), this is the result :-

They will sell off their homes to pay for their keep, even though they've payed into the system for a state pension (!). If they have below £15,000 in the bank, the state pays 'all' of their costs. If they have more than this amount, (usually!) they technically have their entire estate liquidated for a 'cot and three square' meals a day. A lifetime of work reduced to a yearly hotel bill of £20,000 per person!!

If, on the other hand a Japanese system based on accrued points where implemented, people could stay in their homes and a cost efficient support network where no government interviened could well bloom in the UK. But of course, there would be no profit for banks or government, so an inefficient and inept overblown dinosaur of a system skuds along the bottom of society. In a way, it is perfect for this old system to get extra productive mileage out of people that are nolonger productive to the system; people who have paid into it and earned a right to reap the benefits of a life-times work. Bernard Leitaer goes into detail on this and many other fixes that would make a future possible, even without a 'Gold Standard'.

Beyond and above barter, we're heading toward a collapse that could open the gates to hope if communities could draw together and help one-another.

Ayn Rand's book - 'Atlas Shrugged' (1959) is gaining momentum (Tea Party's?), because much that is written inside this tomb of a book appears to have finally come to pass in many respects. This part of the book raises more questions about how we value money and how its corruption gains acceptance as long as the effects aren't noticed openly. It seems we're running out of places to hide :-

—Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Rearden heard Bertram Scudder, outside the group, say to a girl who made some sound of indignation, "Don't let him disturb you. You know, money is the root of all evil--and he's the typical product of money."

Rearden did not think that Francisco could have heard it, but he saw Francisco turning to them with a gravely courteous smile.

"So you think that money is the root of all evil?" said Francisco d'Aconia. "Have you ever asked what is the root of money? Money is a tool of exchange, which can't exist unless there are goods produced and men able to produce them. Money is the material shape of the principle that men who wish to deal with one another must deal by trade and give value for value. Money is not the tool of the moochers, who claim your product by tears, or of the looters, who take it from you by force. Money is made possible only by the men who produce. Is this what you consider evil?

"When you accept money in payment for your effort, you do so only on the conviction that you will exchange it for the product of the effort of others. It is not the moochers or the looters who give value to money. Not an ocean of tears nor all the guns in the world can transform those pieces of paper in your wallet into the bread you will need to survive tomorrow. Those pieces of paper, which should have been gold, are a token of honor-- your claim upon the energy of the men who produce. Your wallet is your statement of hope that somewhere in the world around you there are men who will not default on that moral principle which is the root of money. Is this what you consider evil?

"Have you ever looked for the root of production? Take a look at an electric generator and dare tell yourself that it was created by the muscular effort of unthinking brutes. Try to grow a seed of wheat without the knowledge left to you by men who had to discover it for the first time. Try to obtain your food by means of nothing but physical motions--and you'll learn that man's mind is the root of all the goods produced and of all the wealth that has ever existed on earth.

"But you say that money is made by the strong at the expense of the weak? What strength do you mean? It is not the strength of guns or muscles. Wealth is the product of man's capacity to think. Then is money made by the man who invents a motor at the expense of those who did not invent it? Is money made by the intelligent at the expense of the fools? By the able at the expense of the incompetent? By the ambitious at the expense of the lazy? Money is MADE--before it can be looted or mooched--made by the effort of every honest man, each to the extent of his ability. An honest man is one who knows that he can't consume more than he has produced.

"To trade by means of money is the code of the men of good will. Money rests on the axiom that every man is the owner of his mind and his effort. Money allows no power to prescribe the value of your effort except by the voluntary choice of the man who is willing to trade you his effort in return. Money permits you to obtain for your goods and your labor that which they are worth to the men who buy them, but no more. Money permits no deals except those to mutual benefit by the unforced judgment of the traders. Money demands of you the recognition that men must work for their own benefit, not for their own injury, for their gain, not their loss--the recognition that they are not beasts of burden, born to carry the weight of your misery--that you must offer them values, not wounds--that the common bond among men is not the exchange of suffering, but the exchange of GOODS. Money demands that you sell, not your weakness to men's stupidity, but your talent to their reason; it demands that you buy, not the shoddiest they offer, but the best your money can find. And when men live by trade--with reason, not force, as their final arbiter--it is the best product that wins, the best performance, then man of best judgment and highest ability--and the degree of a man's productiveness is the degree of his reward. This is the code of existence whose tool and symbol is money. Is this what you consider evil?

"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality--the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind.

"Money will not purchase happiness for the man who has no concept of what he wants; money will not give him a code of values, if he's evaded the knowledge of what to value, and it will not provide him with a purpose, if he's evaded the choice of what to seek. Money will not buy intelligence for the fool, or admiration for the coward, or respect for the incompetent. The man who attempts to purchase the brains of his superiors to serve him, with his money replacing his judgment, ends up by becoming the victim of his inferiors. The men of intelligence desert him, but the cheats and the frauds come flocking to him, drawn by a law which he has not discovered: that no man may be smaller than his money. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Only the man who does not need it, is fit to inherit wealth--the man who would make his own fortune no matter where he started. If an heir is equal to his money, it serves him; if not, it destroys him. But you look on and you cry that money corrupted him. Did it? Or did he corrupt his money? Do not envy a worthless heir; his wealth is not yours and you would have done no better with it. Do not think that it should have been distributed among you; loading the world with fifty parasites instead of one, would not bring back the dead virtue which was the fortune. Money is a living power that dies without its root. Money will not serve that mind that cannot match it. Is this the reason why you call it evil?

"Money is your means of survival. The verdict which you pronounce upon the source of your livelihood is the verdict you pronounce upon your life. If the source is corrupt, you have damned your own existence. Did you get your money by fraud? By pandering to men's vices or men's stupidity? By catering to fools, in the hope of getting more than your ability deserves? By lowering your standards? By doing work you despise for purchasers you scorn? If so, then your money will not give you a moment's or a penny's worth of joy. Then all the things you buy will become, not a tribute to you, but a reproach; not an achievement, but a reminder of shame. Then you'll scream that money is evil. Evil, because it would not pinch-hit for your self-respect? Evil, because it would not let you enjoy your depravity? Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Money will always remain an effect and refuse to replace you as the cause. Money is the product of virtue, but it will not give you virtue and it will not redeem your vices. Money will not give you the unearned, neither in matter nor in spirit. Is this the root of your hatred of money?

"Or did you say it's the LOVE of money that's the root of all evil? To love a thing is to know and love its nature. To love money is to know and love the fact that money is the creation of the best power within you, and your passkey to trade your effort for the effort of the best among men. It's the person who would sell his soul for a nickel, who is the loudest in proclaiming his hatred of money--and he has good reason to hate it. The lovers of money are willing to work for it. They know they are able to deserve it."

"Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

"Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun.

"But money demands of you the highest virtues, if you wish to make it or to keep it. Men who have no courage, pride, or self-esteem, men who have no moral sense of their right to their money and are not willing to defend it as they defend their life, men who apologize for being rich--will not remain rich for long. They are the natural bait for the swarms of looters that stay under rocks for centuries, but come crawling out at the first smell of a man who begs to be forgiven for the guilt of owning wealth. They will hasten to relieve him of the guilt--and of his life, as he deserves.

"Then you will see the rise of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money--the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law--men who use force to seize the wealth of DISARMED victims--then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that it does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it becomes, marked: 'Account overdrawn.'

"When you have made evil the means of survival, do not expect men to remain good. Do not expect them to stay moral and lose their lives for the purpose of becoming the fodder of the immoral. Do not expect them to produce, when production is punished and looting rewarded. Do not ask, 'Who is destroying the world?' You are.

"You stand in the midst of the greatest achievements of the greatest productive civilization and you wonder why it's crumbling around you, while your damning its life-blood--money. You look upon money as the savages did before you, and you wonder why the jungle is creeping back to the edge of your cities. Throughout men's history, money was always seized by looters of one brand or another, but whose method remained the same: to seize wealth by force and to keep the producers bound, demeaned, defamed, deprived of honor. That phrase about the evil of money, which you mouth with such righteous recklessness, comes from a time when wealth was produced by the labor of slaves--slaves who repeated the motions once discovered by somebody's mind and left unimproved for centuries. So long as production was ruled by force, and wealth was obtained by conquest, there was little to conquer. Yet through all the centuries of stagnation and starvation, men exalted the looters, as aristocrats of the sword, as aristocrats of birth, as aristocrats of the bureau, and despised the producers, as slaves, as traders, as shopkeepers--as industrialists.

"To the glory of mankind, there was, for the first and only time in history, a COUNTRY OF MONEY--and I have no higher, more reverent tribute to pay to America, for this means: a country of reason, justice, freedom, production, achievement. For the first time, man's mind and money were set free, and there were no fortunes-by-conquest, but only fortunes-by-work, and instead of swordsmen and slaves, there appeared the real maker of wealth, the greatest worker, the highest type of human being--the self-made man--the American industrialist.

"If you ask me to name the proudest distinction of Americans, I would choose--because it contains all the others--the fact that they were the people who created the phrase 'to MAKE money.' No other language or nation had ever used these words before; men had always thought of wealth as a static quantity--to be seized, begged, inherited, shared, looted, or obtained as a favor. Americans were the first to understand that wealth has to be created. The words 'to make money' hold the essence of human morality.

"Yet these were the words for which Americans were denounced by the rotted cultures of the looters' continents. Now the looters' credo has brought you to regard your proudest achievements as a hallmark of shame, your prosperity as guilt, your greatest men, the industrialists, as blackguards, and your magnificent factories as the product and property of muscular labor, the labor of whip-driven slaves, like the pyramids of Egypt. The rotter who simpers that he sees no difference between the power of the dollar and the power of the whip, ought to learn the difference on his own hide-as, I think, he will.

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to be the tool by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other--and your time is running out."

Knowledge, as they say, is power...

Best,

Paul

 

Crash's picture
Crash
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Re: LETS on TV
Vanityfox451 wrote:

Hi Crash,

I'm going to try my hand at answering your question :-

 

 

Thanks Vanityfox,

 

I like the currency idea you put forward. I think that a plurality of alternative curencies, not-for-profit and for-profit alike is a desirable thing and perhaps an inevitability considering the current monetary climate. LETS is one way in which communities can own their currency which builds trust, fellowship and economic robustness.

 

I liked your quote there. I don't think money is good or bad. It is a tool. I wouldn't call my axe good or bad: It is useful. Whether I choose to chop wood to heat my home for my family or slaughter my neighbors in a sadistic frenzy is up to me.

 

I think it is unnecessary to impose assumptions of human morality onto inanimate tools. Money is simply a tool. Personally I think our current monetary system is a 'bad' way of organising exchange. I think LETS is a 'good' way of doing the same. They are both examples of the manner in which money can be used. When I use the terms 'good' and 'bad' I am imposing my own moral judgement onto the situation.

 

It would be more useful in a debate situation for me to say if control of a populace is one of your goals than a debt-based usurious money system is extremely useful in achieving your ends.

 

However, if a fair means of exchange, community cohesion and freedom are amongst your goals than LETS is one useful method in helping you achieve that. 

 

I agree that there is a fear of money amongst some who do see it as 'evil' but this is just as misguided as assuming that money is  the source of all good. The source of all good and evil is the human mind for these both are no more than concepts we have created.

 

peace

 

Crash 

Crash's picture
Crash
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Re: LETS on TV
Vanityfox451 wrote:

An Interview With Bernard Lietaer

http://uazu.net/money/lietaer.html

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

Just thought I'd say, I really Like Mr Lietaer, Thanks again, you are a fountain of interesting links, vids and articles, good work!

 

Crash 

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
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Re: LETS on TV

Crash,

That was a very thoughful reply...

I want to have a play with history, drawing upon a character by Mary Shelley and making the present a model from it.

April 5th-April 12th 1815  - Mount Tambora in the Dutch East Indies blows its top explosively during an eruption, killing upwards of 92,000 and propelling thousands of tons of aerosols (Sulfide gas compounds) into the upper atmosphere (stratosphere). The high level gases reflect sunlight and cause the widespread cooling (known as a volcanic winter) and heavy rains of 1816, causes snows in June and July in the northern hemisphere, widespread crop failures, and subsequently famine, which is why 1816 becomes known as the Year Without a Summer.

 During the rainy summer of 1816, the "Year Without a Summer," the world was locked in a long cold volcanic winter. Mary Wollstonecraft Godwin, aged 19, and her lover (and later husband) Percy Bysshe Shelley, visited Lord Byron at the Villa Diodati by Lake Geneva in Switzerland. The weather was consistently too cold and dreary that summer to enjoy the outdoor holiday activities they had planned, so the group retired indoors until dawn. Amongst other subjects, the conversation turned to the experiments of the 18th-century natural philosopher and poet Erasmus Darwin, who was said to have animated dead matter, and to galvanism and the feasibility of returning a corpse or assembled body parts to life. Sitting around a log fire at Byron's villa, the company also amused themselves by reading German ghost stories, prompting Byron to suggest they each write their own supernatural tale. Shortly afterwards, in a waking dream, Mary Godwin conceived the idea for Frankenstein:

I saw the pale student of unhallowed arts kneeling beside the thing he had put together. I saw the hideous phantasm of a man stretched out, and then, on the working of some powerful engine, show signs of life, and stir with an uneasy, half vital motion. Frightful must it be; for supremely frightful would be the effect of any human endeavour to mock the stupendous mechanism of the Creator of the world.

 Now, before you think I've gone nuts, I'm going to tie this together with a film. Before I do though, the story by Mary Shelley was of a man who created a monster that eventually killed its creator.

This film will explain exactly how and why :-

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/view/

...supremely frightful indeed.

As you've written above :-

 "The source of all good and evil is the human mind for these both are no more than concepts we have created."

Yet, if you impower 'Corporations' as a creature with the same rights as individual human beings :-

Their Birth...

There is nothing more unbecoming than a creature that is born under the guise of the 'Black' Civil Rights Movement...

Hopefully, and I mean with hope; over the next few years where our resources plumit to the point where we nolonger have excess, we're going to learn how to make money work for the many and not for the few - Lets not hold our breath for it with human nature as it is...

Best,

Paul

 

 

 

 

 

Crash's picture
Crash
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Re: LETS on TV
Vanityfox451 wrote:

Hopefully 

 Thanks Paul,

There's always hope. Hope and positive action.

 

with kindness,

 

Crash 

 

 

ReginaF's picture
ReginaF
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Re: LETS on TV

Today I watched in the big german journal "Spiegel" a video about local currency in Ithaka/USA: http://km42.spiegel.de/home/index.php?directid=4178 

Best greetings, Regina

Crash's picture
Crash
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Re: LETS on TV

Thanks Regina, inspiring X

fujisan's picture
fujisan
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Posts: 296
Re: LETS on TV

Local Currencies: Communities Printing Own Money To Keep Cash Flowing

Quote:


USA Today's reporting on local currencies gives the impression that this is a NEW phenomenon born from the recession. Rather, many of these programs have existed for some time. 
The organization that runs BerkShares, told Huffington Post that it has been producing currency since 2006, well before the financial crisis dominated headlines. Ithaca Hours have been in production since 1991. Despite the fact that these currencies have existed - a point USA Today should update - there is a growing interest in currency production for communities hit by the recession. New currencies, like the Detroit Cheers are coming into play.

 

Read the article from USA Today on local currencies.

A small but growing number of cash-strapped communities are printing their own money.

Borrowing from a Depression-era idea, they are aiming to help consumers make ends meet and support struggling local businesses.

 


Do you know of other local currencies that have been circulated in response to the recession? Are you part of a community that has been using local currencies? Is there more of an interest in your local currency now more than ever? If so, send photos of your local money to [email protected] an explanation of who started the currency and how successful it has been. If you regularly spend your local currency, tell us how it has affected your purchasing habits and your local businesses.

Keep reading for more info on local currencies: 


The Detroit News
 expands on the movement, with an article on its local currency, "Detroit Cheers," which was re-born from the Depression era push to create currencies.

A Detroit trio of small-business owners are reviving the idea, following an emerging national trend. The businesses are creating a currency called Detroit Cheers, and more than a dozen city merchants have already agreed to accept it as real money. "The world is just now reeling from economic chaos; in Detroit, that's how we always roll," said Jerry Belanger, 49, a backer of the currency, as he watched the initial run of Cheers bills roll off the presses last week.... 

Detroit Cheers joins an estimated 75 local currency systems that have sprung up recently in the U.S., said Michael Shuman, author of "The Small-Mart Revolution: How Local Businesses Are Beating the Global Competition."

 


If you want to know more about how a local currency works, check out the fact sheet on BerkShares, a currency that is now being used in Massachusetts. Below is an excerpt on how the money helps the economy there:

 

How do BerkShares benefit the local economy?

Everyone benefits from using BerkShares. Consumers benefit from receving a 10% discount on purchases. Businesses benefit from increased patronage. Local non-profit organizations can also benefit by purchasing BerkShares at the 5% discount rate and selling them at full face value to their supporters.

 

It will take citizens working in their own communities, region by region, to create the kind of systemic change that will lead to sustainable economic practices--practices that foster ecologically responsible production of goods and a more equitable distribution of wealth. Local currencies are a tool to bring about such change. BerkShares are about building community while building the local economy.

 

 

 


 

Crash's picture
Crash
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Re: LETS on TV

Thanks Fujisan

 

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