"Junk" Silver as PM?

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SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
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"Junk" Silver as PM?

Hey gang --

I'm in a position to acquire a wee bit more PM, and although I've got some gold and some silver, I haven't got any "junk" silver (pre-1964 dimes, e.g.).  Does anybody else out there in CM-land have junk silver on hand as part of their PM holdings?  If so, are you glad you've got it?  Where did you get it?  And so forth...

If I don't go "junk", I'll prolly just up my silver allocation, but there's enough noise out there about pre-64 coinage that I'm curious what folks here think.

Thanks in advance...

Viva -- Sager

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

http://www.coloradogold.com/archive/Bags-903.html

 

an opinion

robie

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

Yep, I've got a $1,000 face value bag of 90% silver.  If the worst happens, it'll probably be of more use to me than any of my other PMs.  But, if the worst doesn't happen, I'm stuck with a 50lb. bag of change. Undecided

Doug

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

 

If the world ends then junk silver comes in handier than Gold or Silver Eagles. As an investment it has lower premium but still worth having.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

Any coin dealer and some pawn shops will be glad to sell it to you.  It is a little over 12 to 13 times face value at the moment.  silver dimes and quarter will be good for barter if we have worthless currency.  they are small enough to trade for minor items.

Silver eagles are good for investment grade silver, but would trade for big ticket items in a collapse.

APMEX.com is as good a vendor as any i've found.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

I ignored it at first in favor of bullion, but now I cant get enough.  I think those coins will have a much easier acceptance value.  Plus they make such a nice sound, like REAL money!!  APMEX prices are pretty competitive, if you just pony up the dough, but you can lurk on ebay, and with some trading sense you can get junk silver delivered to your door for near spot, plus or minus.  Trying to score junk silver for spot or less on ebay has been my  favorite pastime lately... Your fellow bidders can get wildly aggressive but you can still get a great buy often.

Use this handy tool:  http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver_coin_calculator.html

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
plantguy90 wrote:

I ignored it at first in favor of bullion, but now I cant get enough.  I think those coins will have a much easier acceptance value.  Plus they make such a nice sound, like REAL money!!  APMEX prices are pretty competitive, if you just pony up the dough, but you can lurk on ebay, and with some trading sense you can get junk silver delivered to your door for near spot, plus or minus.  Trying to score junk silver for spot or less on ebay has been my  favorite pastime lately... Your fellow bidders can get wildly aggressive but you can still get a great buy often.

Use this handy tool:  http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver_coin_calculator.html

True, but I just got tire of always getting outbid in the last few seconds of an auction by some lurker so I just went with APMEX.  Hey wait a minute.  YOU!!  The sniper.  You hoser! Cool

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

No! Not me! no sniping here...  well, ok, sometimes...  I noticed in my short time there that there is a lot of sniping going on, so my game was to do the math (a lot of people on ebay are terrible at it), include shipping, and try to find the "sweet spot" where the next bid would put that buyer as an "overpayer", and hopefully you scare off the others.  If you get outbid then the price was "ove"r so you just move on...  Lots of others seem to employ the same strategy... Othertimes if you see something that you are still willing to bid on you can wait but sometimes that will cost you... Also, check for multiple auctions and see if seller will combine shipping... 

Its really fun, trying to hustle up the cheap coins!!! 

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

I also have silver coins I bought  at a pawn shop  for the same reasons easy trading etc...Another thing I collect and continue to purchase

are plain gold rings they are easy small amounts of gold to barter.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

I have been working with change for 4months now and I have not found 1 silver coin before the year 1964.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

I have bars and eagles in my IRA but I like 90% junk silver coins for personal possession.  The $1000 face bags are a rather unwieldly to handle and hide at over 44 lbs.  I like the $500 face mixed bags (which have so far, always been half dollars for me) as well as the $100 bags (the latter of which are under the $3,000 level which may be reported to the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network).  The coins are instantly recognizeable, their pre-64 dating indicates their 90% silver content, their silver content by weight is known for each type of coin, they are highly unlikely to be counterfeited (such as can be done with bars), they are divisible (unlike bars), they are liquid (probably more so than bars), and they can be purchased cheaply relative to the spot price of silver (and, in fact, I've picked them up at 10 cents under spot not too long ago).  APMEX has provided excellent service, has fair prices, and has pricing transparency with frequently upgraded buy and sell prices.  I'd recommend them.      

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

Sniping just keeps the price down. If my snipe is less than your high bid you win.

I bought quite a bit last year on eBay. I bought some off Craigslist by placing an ad, but I got a TON of phishers. They all backed off when I said I would only meet at my bank. I won't do the Craigslist thing again. I had to be too cautious.

I'm glad I have it. If it gets to the point where the dollar truly collapses, everybody and their dog will know the value of all the coins that have PM value. Personally I stick with 90% to avoid any confusion amongst the less educamated traders I might need to do business with.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

Sag,

If you already have bullion in Au/Ag then it's prudent to go in the "Junk" direction for diversification.  Makes all the sense in the world.  But I would keep your "junk" allocation at about 20-25% of your totals.  

Good luck!

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

I am absolutly gald I have it, and still aquire more. I too started with bullion Coins and bars (gold/silver), but decided it would be a good idea to have a certain amount of 90% silver too. Fankly I'd rather use that for small purchases like first rather then my bullion.

Besides, for me, if I had a choice between keeping all my cash in dollars or putting a portion in PM's then I am going with PM's.

 

I have gotten almost all my 90% silver rolls from APMEX too, fairly fast shipping, and easy. The mark up isn't bad either (usually around 0.79) sometimes they have sales where mark up is only .39.

Watch out for shipping charges....if you put more than a 10g of gold, or a lot of bullion in general shipping can go up fairly high. I off set this by doing group orders then split shipping costs....

GO TEAM

Mike

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

Thanks to all the replying folks.  Plenty of food for thought.  

I had one additional thought yesterday after I posted this.  Suppose I have silver eagles, and post-SHTF I want to do biz w/somebody -- say the local farmer's market or something.  If junk silver is widely recognized and used, why wouldn't I be able to use my eagles for transactions?  Sure it's a large "denomination" relatively speaking, but wouldn't a vendor be able to simply give me change in junk silver?  Just as if I was somebody today who only walked around with $100 bills.  Occasionally somebody's gonna say "Ehrm...I can't break that, it's too large," but for the most part I just end up with 4 $20s-plus-whatever in change for a small-ish purchase.

Thoughts?

Thanks again, people.  Community rocks!

Viva -- Sager

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

True, but there is a lot of 'what if's' in that for me to not have the 90% silver already.

Like what happens if 1oz of silver is $60+ ? If it moves to 1980 level's it will be much higher than that (after being adjusted of coarse). 

Yes, at this same time the 90% coins will go up in value too, being smaller coins you arent obligated to 'needing' to buy 'X' amount in goods, you can break it down. -----key thing here, what if your trading with a local that can't break it down?

In the end, I know these are simply 'what if's' but to me having some on hand answers all of them, no matter how little the chances of some of them are.

Mike

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

IF tshtf, I suspect that all the more common silver coins will rapidly become recognizable and attain commonly accepted values.  This would be fundamental to any kind of societal reorganization.  We need common currencies.  The easiest to recognize for Americans would be 90% coins.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
SagerXX wrote:

I had one additional thought yesterday after I posted this.  Suppose I have silver eagles, and post-SHTF I want to do biz w/somebody -- say the local farmer's market or something.  If junk silver is widely recognized and used, why wouldn't I be able to use my eagles for transactions?  Sure it's a large "denomination" relatively speaking, but wouldn't a vendor be able to simply give me change in junk silver?  Just as if I was somebody today who only walked around with $100 bills.  Occasionally somebody's gonna say "Ehrm...I can't break that, it's too large," but for the most part I just end up with 4 $20s-plus-whatever in change for a small-ish purchase.

Thoughts?

Thanks again, people.  Community rocks!

Viva -- Sager

Yes Eagles will be very good.  Just remember that they are pure .999 silver. Not .90 junk.  they will be like paying with $200.00 bills now. so it could be difficult to make change, but I think they are much better than bullion bars for trading.

hope this helps

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

My thought is that owning junk silver is not needed.  As Sager said, there will be some junk silver floating around for change.  But, more importantly, there has to be some type of local money around because only a small amount of people are converting their dollars to PMs. The world still has to function.  If you do some work for a factory or a rancher or a farmer he has to pay you with something, right?   In the future I'd expect to take a 1 oz silver coin (an eagle or a round) and exchange it for local money (New dollars? Ameros? Texas dollars?) and use that for buying goods. Becasue of that, I don't see an advantage in having junk silver.

><>Larry

 

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

I agree If you look at the videos on Zimbabwe most to the market is in the streets The store shelves are mostly empty with long lines.  The street vendors are taking only gold for payment of goods... small pieces of gold being mined by hand. So I'm assuming in a case of TSHTF what ever scenario that is,small pieces of jewelery or junk silver will buy something nk:)

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
docmims wrote:
SagerXX wrote:

I had one additional thought yesterday after I posted this.  Suppose I have silver eagles, and post-SHTF I want to do biz w/somebody -- say the local farmer's market or something.  If junk silver is widely recognized and used, why wouldn't I be able to use my eagles for transactions?  Sure it's a large "denomination" relatively speaking, but wouldn't a vendor be able to simply give me change in junk silver?  Just as if I was somebody today who only walked around with $100 bills.  Occasionally somebody's gonna say "Ehrm...I can't break that, it's too large," but for the most part I just end up with 4 $20s-plus-whatever in change for a small-ish purchase.

Thoughts?

Thanks again, people.  Community rocks!

Viva -- Sager

Yes Eagles will be very good.  Just remember that they are pure .999 silver. Not .90 junk.  they will be like paying with $200.00 bills now. so it could be difficult to make change, but I think they are much better than bullion bars for trading.

hope this helps

 

+1

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
SagerXX wrote:

Thanks to all the replying folks.  Plenty of food for thought.  

I had one additional thought yesterday after I posted this.  Suppose I have silver eagles, and post-SHTF I want to do biz w/somebody -- say the local farmer's market or something.  If junk silver is widely recognized and used, why wouldn't I be able to use my eagles for transactions?  Sure it's a large "denomination" relatively speaking, but wouldn't a vendor be able to simply give me change in junk silver?  Just as if I was somebody today who only walked around with $100 bills.  Occasionally somebody's gonna say "Ehrm...I can't break that, it's too large," but for the most part I just end up with 4 $20s-plus-whatever in change for a small-ish purchase.

Thoughts?

Thanks again, people.  Community rocks!

Viva -- Sager

Eagles would be fine.  It's just that if you're looking at the bullion value of silver, you're paying a lot larger premium for eagles than for pre-65 90% silver coins.  It's unlikely you'll get full numismatic value for the eagles in the event of a SHTF scenario so you may take a small loss on them relative to the junk silver coins.  In a non-SHTF scenario, I would expect the eagles would hold their numismatic value.  I have some of each and am comfortable with that decision.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

APMEX offers the 1000 face value divided into two 28# bags I believe.

I gather that most if not all of the dimes in such junk bags have the profile of FDR which I found abhorrent even as a five year old boy when they were first released and replaced the Mercury head dime which is a beautiful coin. 

Any of you aware of the Campaign For Liberty? I think it is a growing movement of citizens who want to replace the politicians who fail to keep, and probably don't even understand, the oath to preserve the Constitution. I joined in Aug 08 when there were 6000 members. It is another example of exponential growth as membership has doubled over five times in the year and now stands at 223,125 and growing daily.

www.campaignforliberty.com 

I found out about chris martenson at www.objectivistliving.com where a fellow recommended it on a forum.

If gold goes up over 2000, or to 5000 as Peter Schiff suggests is possible, silver will outperform it. All seems to depend on just when all the paper currency languishing in bank vaults around the world will leak out or be loaned out. Consider the fractional reserve system requirement that ten percent be held in reserve. To me that means if the bank holds ten million in their vault as reserve, they can loan out one hundred million. 

In the early 1930's the ratio of paper currency in circulation to the amount of gold in reserve was 35 dollars per ounce. Now it is more like $90,000 per ounce!

Sorry I don't have the link for that one.

Several articles in the Wall Street Journal, which featured an obverse and reverse of a St Gaudens Double Eagle on the first page in Thursday's edition, 11/19/09, were gold related.

I believe the wealthy are competing for the high end numismatic coins. One million dollars at auction of the first penny in 1775 or so.

I just try to avoid paying exorbitant premiums above spot.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

Went to the coin dealer in Albany today.  Junk silver:  mission accomplished.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
SagerXX wrote:

Went to the coin dealer in Albany today.  Junk silver:  mission accomplished.

Just curious.  What kind of price relative to spot?

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
ao wrote:
SagerXX wrote:

Went to the coin dealer in Albany today.  Junk silver:  mission accomplished.

Just curious.  What kind of price relative to spot?

Roughly 90 percent of spot.  coinflation.com has a good calculator for the value of silver in american coins. go to the melt value of silver coins.  It is approximately 12.8 times face value now.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
docmims wrote:
ao wrote:
SagerXX wrote:

Went to the coin dealer in Albany today.  Junk silver:  mission accomplished.

Just curious.  What kind of price relative to spot?

Roughly 90 percent of spot.  coinflation.com has a good calculator for the value of silver in american coins. go to the melt value of silver coins.  It is approximately 12.8 times face value now.

The number I paid today was 12.82 times face.

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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
docmims wrote:
ao wrote:
SagerXX wrote:

Went to the coin dealer in Albany today.  Junk silver:  mission accomplished.

Just curious.  What kind of price relative to spot?

Roughly 90 percent of spot.  coinflation.com has a good calculator for the value of silver in american coins. go to the melt value of silver coins.  It is approximately 12.8 times face value now.

docmims,

Thanks for the info.  Actually, my question was specifically directed to Sager for the price he paid today at that particular coin shop for junk silver since I may be in the Albany area in a month and was wondering how prices compare with my area and online.  I think you may be confusing the 90% silver content of junk silver with a supposed 90% of spot price of the silver content/weight of that coin, not the weight of the entire coin.  Price can float to below spot on rare occasions but usually is a little over spot.  
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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?
ao wrote:
Thanks for the info.  Actually, my question was specifically directed to Sager for the price he paid today at that particular coin shop for junk silver since I may be in the Albany area in a month and was wondering how prices compare with my area and online.  I think you may be confusing the 90% silver content of junk silver with a supposed 90% of spot price of the silver content/weight of that coin, not the weight of the entire coin.  Price can float to below spot on rare occasions but usually is a little over spot.  

Hey ao -- by my calculations what we paid came out to $16.03/oz. of coinage, and therefore around $17.80/oz. of Ag.  And according to the fine fine folks over at Kitco, that'd be 14 cents over spot.  
These old dimes & quarters feel strange on the hands -- and eventually leave a tarnish on them as well if you noodle with them (reading the dates, checking out the old designs, etc.).  
Viva -- Sager
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Re: "Junk" Silver as PM?

Thanks for the info Sager.  That sounds about par.  Yeah, those old coins can grow on you ... literally.;-)

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