If gold is made illegal.

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Johnny Oxygen's picture
Johnny Oxygen
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If gold is made illegal.

I've stated this many times before but here it goes again. I do believe the this administartions solution to the debt is to devalue the currency. But they will also need real wealth to negotiate abroad.

I believe that some form of Executive Order 6102 will be reinstated to make it illegal to own gold in any large quantity. Remember they don't have to kick down your door to find it. If you purchase anything like a house, business, land or anything of substantial value with your gold you will have to account for where the money came from. This goes for trading it abroad as well. Also keep in mind that from 1933 to 1971 it remainded illegal to own gold. That is a long time to sit on your investment.

So the question is: If you owned a substantial amount of gold and it was made illegal what would you do?

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

I'd advocate that now is a good time to trade some jewelry on eBay, spend the 100 bucks to form a LLC and the 10 bucks to open a business license as a jeweler. I opened an account with Stuller as well and sold a few diamonds also to friends getting married. 2 clients are goldsmiths. Jewelers were before allowed to own gold as long as the made something with it for later sale.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

I seriously doubt that gold bullion will become illegal to own. It would be much more difficult now than in 1933.

If however it does come to pass that gold bullion ownership becomes illegal then you could always become a gold miner.

I spend summers mining placer gold. I always get some to show for my effort. If bullion became illegal to own I am sure that my take on the mining claim would increase substantially.You can sell mined gold to a refiner. Probably only get 80-85% of spot price thoughSmile

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Re: If gold is made illegal.
kenc wrote:

I seriously doubt that gold bullion will become illegal to own. It would be much more difficult now than in 1933.

Not wanting to be oppositional, but I actually think it might be easier. Now you have a credit card, everyone does, why do you need gold would be the argument.

Then it's just a case of rounding it up. If you're in physical possession it's no harder for the Govt. to confiscation than in '33. If it's electonic it's significantly easier to trace, locate and confiscate than if it's physical. They can just grab sales records from the holding company, and bingo, instant list of people who own gold, in days at most. Then you'd likely get a visit from your friendly Fed and asked to sign it over (with thanks for supporting your country in time of need.

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

I think it will come wrapped in a flag. Like 'you need to turn in your gold to help us get out of this depression' with attachments like 'patriotic duty' and maybe even incentive. Remember how we were all actually going to profit from the bailouts?

And it will work.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.
Gungnir wrote:
kenc wrote:

I seriously doubt that gold bullion will become illegal to own. It would be much more difficult now than in 1933.

Not wanting to be oppositional, but I actually think it might be easier. Now you have a credit card, everyone does, why do you need gold would be the argument.

Then it's just a case of rounding it up. If you're in physical possession it's no harder for the Govt. to confiscation than in '33. If it's electonic it's significantly easier to trace, locate and confiscate than if it's physical. They can just grab sales records from the holding company, and bingo, instant list of people who own gold, in days at most. Then you'd likely get a visit from your friendly Fed and asked to sign it over (with thanks for supporting your country in time of need.

 

 

Unlike 1933 making gold illegal cannot be done with a mere executive order. since gold is now legal to own a law would have be passed to make it illegal. That is the difference.

 

Ken

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

??!!!

That's what an executive order is. It was also legal to own before 1933, then by executive decision it was made illegal.

Anyway, remember the patriot act which has made the 4th amendment virtually non existent? It passed by a huge margin.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.
Johnny Oxygen wrote:

??!!!

That's what an executive order is. It was also legal to own before 1933, then by executive decision it was made illegal.

Anyway, remember the patriot act which has made the 4th amendment virtually non existent? It passed by a huge margin.

On December 31, 1974, Public Law 93-373, which removes the restrictions on a person "purchasing, holding, selling, or otherwise dealing with gold," was passed.

Laws cannot simply be abrogated by "executive order"

I as said before, in order to confiscate gold the law must be changed.

 

Ken

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Do you think thiswould apply only to gold, or also to silver and other PMs?  Is there any history for confiscating all PMs?

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Well I'm certainly not an expert but I don't think so, at least not in modern history. I know that world bankers have tried to control silver before but with little to no success.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

This congress can and will change any laws on a dime to effect "change" or wealth redistribution in a days work.  2200 page bills are being passed without anyone reading them and with only a couple weeks of debate.  Have no illusions, the government make any changes they want right now....the masses are asleep and the congress is running wild.  The constitution is irrelevant and the arguments about what is legal is totally irrelevant at this point.

Its really easy to get all caught up in the need for gold - - and for all the gold die hards out there I would advise you to play devils advocate for a while.  Gold bugs, more than any other investors in any other "investment" - are so incredibly passionate and confident in the future.  I gotta say, you might be wrong.  Consider all the many many things that must happen for your gold to pay off better than many other investments.  Its not a no brainer at all.  I am not saying that it doesnt have some merit - but in no way should anyone be so confident in its success at holding its value relative to other assets as I see in this community.  Gold, many many times over history, has dramatically underperformed inflation and fiat dilution. Point being - dont be married to any idea that you invest in ever - - as its never that easy or obvious and the future is as unpredictable now as any time in history.  Like gold?  Sure, I see your arguments, but be careful and dont leverage your future on it.  Nothing is worse for in the effort to maintain/increase wealth than overconfidence in any investment/wealth store.

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

The only people who are concerned about confiscation of their gold are those who failed to do their own due diligence before purchasing gold.  DYODD.  It always boggles my mind that people will make a purchase, have doubts, and then look for quick answers on a message board.  The wise man will take the time to educate himself about a possible economic decision before he invests. 

The old adage, "Look before you Leap" still holds true. 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Um, Americans still don't have a clue about gold (or much anything else, for that matter) and for all practical purposes don't own any, meaning that there's nothing much for the government to confiscate.  Besides, the US government didn't do very well the first time around, as most Americans refused to turn their gold in (because the government didn't know who owned what back then and appealed primariloy to "patriotism").  And in any case, it wasn't confiscated; it was nationalized --

-- which, in today's globalized 24/7 world, would be so counterproductive as to be suicidal, as the worldwide price of gold would skyrocket, thereby crashing the dollar.

Moreover, if the government were to nationalize gold amid a Weimar-style hyperinflation, well, so what?   In a modern, industrialized society (which Weimar Germany wasn't, being largely agricultural), hyperinflation would mean a breakdown of the banking system (no credit cards, ATMs, etc.) and thus no commerce to speak of beyond barter.

A collapse of civilization as we know it, in other words, in which case gold (and silver) would only be of value afterward, assuming -- accent on assuming -- you lived through it.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Golden,

I have to disagree with you.  If you require that all of your decisions are thoroughly researched before taking any action, then for many people, this leads to analysis paralysis.  I think it is far better to take some action and then refine it later - otherwise, you often get mired in doing nothing.  Some people call this technique "Ready, Fire, Aim, Aim, Aim."

Sometimes you need to just "trust yourself" and then work out the kinks later.  That's what I did when I took the red pill in Sept. 2008 and it has paid off handsomely.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Gold is seen by many as the  secular-God, something that will save them  should the sh*t hit the fan.  Understandable, but hollow.  If people are looking for "salvation," then they need to look within, to their heart, and without, to their skills.  You want to survive nearly any scenario, learn survival skills. 

Just as salvation is not for sale, neither is long term survival.  Your gold might buy you a few meals, but it is your brain which will allow you to go on, and your heart that will allow you to help those you love.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Gold and silver is more like a life boat for when this ship sinks. It will be very useful to help get you to a safe place. It should not be thought of as the only thing to do to prepare but it is an important thing to have some PM in my opinion.

A lot of people here seem to think that if it is suggested that you buy some gold/silver it implies that it is all you need to do. Nothing is further from the truth. It is but one arrow  in the quiver.

 

Ken

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Buying gold in anticipation of hyperinflation is certainly part of the strategy. But you also need to divest of US-Dollar denominated assets, put the proceeds into gold coins, and move over the border to Mexico, or they do say Costa Rica is nice too.

The world has never been so globalised or dependent on fiat currencies. When the US Dollar hyperinflates, confidence in fiat currencies in general will collapse and international trade will grind to a halt. The US is not going to be the place to be at that time - the "me first" ethic and gun ownership and hunger is going to be a nasty mix.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Diesel. If you believe that the worst case scenario are fuel shortages and a few months without food then purchasing 20 drums of diesel fuel is a much better investment. Here is why:

1. If we are facing peak oil, then fuel prices can only go up as per the laws of supply and demand in addition to the fractional reserve based inflation. 

2. Is is easy to trade.

3. Diesel is better than gasoline / petrol because it doesn't have a shelf life.

4. If you can't sell it you can always consume it. It will power a tractor, a generator, a water pump, or a diesel powered car.

5. If we don't have any crash scenario then you just bought at a cheaper rate, see point 1.

6. Gold is easy to steal or confiscate. 20 drums is much harder.

An asset is something that produces an income. A house or gold is not an asset, they are both speculative investments. Buying land and producing something is far better than spending money on gold. 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Nigel,  Peak oil is a fact and it means more than just fuel shortages. It means fuel rationing and then fuel only for the Army, Fire, Police, Ambulance. And then it means no fuel even for the Ambulance service - they are at that stage in Bangladesh already. If you can imagine the Gold Police coming round to take your gold ( which you should have buried in the forest ), then surely you can imagine the Diesel Police coming round to take your fuel.  ( "This is an emergency, Sir". )  When the electricity supply goes down and they can't get it back up because they don't have enough diesel to operate their trucks, they will also be coming round for your solar panels ( This is an emergency, Sir". )

An asset is something that produces an income.

If you choose to define it that way I can't stop you, but that isn't what most people mean by an asset. An asset is something that is a store of value.  Gold is gold is gold. Diesel is diesel is carbon dioxide. A house is a house is an abandonned, stripped down, burnt-out shell in a neighbourhood  nobody dares to live in. After all the diesel has been burnt and all the cars and trucks rusted away, ( about 2100 ), gold will still be bright, shiny gold.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

I appreciate everyone's responses but in reading them I have noticed that few actually adress the question. I think this is the most cogent element of this post. Most people really don't know what they would do if gold was made illegal and they happened to own a significant quantity.

Perhaps this lack of foresight is being consider in higher places and plans are being made to make to most of it.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.
kenc wrote:
Johnny Oxygen wrote:

??!!!

That's what an executive order is. It was also legal to own before 1933, then by executive decision it was made illegal.

Anyway, remember the patriot act which has made the 4th amendment virtually non existent? It passed by a huge margin.

On December 31, 1974, Public Law 93-373, which removes the restrictions on a person "purchasing, holding, selling, or otherwise dealing with gold," was passed.

Laws cannot simply be abrogated by "executive order"

I as said before, in order to confiscate gold the law must be changed.

 

Ken

 

In theory Ken. 

That's what the King used to do. And we fought a war to make it end. Nowadays people are too preoccupied with Facebook social games to give a damn.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.
Johnny Oxygen wrote:

I appreciate everyone's responses but in reading them I have noticed that few actually adress the question. I think this is the most cogent element of this post. Most people really don't know what they would do if gold was made illegal and they happened to own a significant quantity.

Have you considered that some may know what they would do but don't want to make it public knowledge on a forum such as this (or in any electronic communication which there is a record of) for obvious reasons?

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Re: If gold is made illegal.
ao wrote:
Johnny Oxygen wrote:

I appreciate everyone's responses but in reading them I have noticed that few actually adress the question. I think this is the most cogent element of this post. Most people really don't know what they would do if gold was made illegal and they happened to own a significant quantity.

Have you considered that some may know what they would do but don't want to make it public knowledge on a forum such as this (or in any electronic communication which there is a record of) for obvious reasons?

 

Yes indeed, it is never a good idea to advertise that you have a "Plan B" .

 

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

LoL....touche'

Good point.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

So the question is: If you owned a substantial amount of gold and it was made illegal what would you do?

 

I believe you might expand the reach of your question to include a discussion of moral versus ethical considerations.  What is the obligation of the individual to the State?   Almost all law is economic law, simply enforcement of the prevailing powers that be.  Hand over the vast majority of your hard earned labor-value, in direct homage (labor produced minus labor taken by employer), taxes to governments, tithes, fees, etc., and they are happy to leave you alone (more or less).  

Personally, if I had a lot of gold and it was made illegal, I wouldn't do anything.  Why should I?

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

I believe you might expand the reach of your question to include a discussion of moral versus ethical considerations.  What is the obligation of the individual to the State?   Almost all law is economic law, simply enforcement of the prevailing powers that be.  Hand over the vast majority of your hard earned labor-value, in direct homage (labor produced minus labor taken by employer), taxes to governments, tithes, fees, etc., and they are happy to leave you alone (more or less).  

Personally, if I had a lot of gold and it was made illegal, I wouldn't do anything.  Why should I?

With all respect anarkst.

This is exactly the type of academic, esoteric and ethereal response I am not looking for. My question was posed to see what real solutions could be thought of to mitigate this type of intrusion into our pockets.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

On December 31, 1974, Public Law 93-373, which removes the restrictions on a person "purchasing, holding, selling, or otherwise dealing with gold," was passed.

Laws cannot simply be abrogated by "executive order"

I as said before, in order to confiscate gold the law must be changed.

I don't think gold would be confiscated - too hard. I do think it will be heavily taxed at some point. So anytime you try to sell some for useable dollars, the transaction will be taxed. The government always creates tax laws to pull value out of viable assets. If donkeys became a store of wealth, donkeys would be taxed. 

But to answer the question, I don't know what I would do.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

If we look back at history we can see a lot of similarities between the 1930s and now. I would not be the least bit surprised if they introduced some sort of SDRs, if those SDRs were backed by a gold or other metal to some degree. If any government needs gold they will, for the greater good of the country do whatever they need to to get their hands on it.

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

This is exactly the type of academic, esoteric and ethereal response I am not looking for. My question was posed to see what real solutions could be thought of to mitigate this type of intrusion into our pockets.

If the government passes such a law, then you are more than welcome to bring your gold over to my house and I will keep it for you :).

 

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

If I had a substantial amount of gold I would buy a lot of guns.

Then I would wait and see who would want to come and take my gold.

Oh I am sorry my wife just told me they will take away the guns first.

I will have to get back to you on that

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Re: If gold is made illegal.

Johnny O, my advice to was DYODD.  It was advice that was given to me on another message board and it was the best advice I could have been given.  Let me share with you how I started my journey of DYODD.  I started going to Barnes & Noble and reading books on their shelves.  I discovered, visiting B & N, that high school students and college students were doing this rather than attempting to purchase all the books they needed to do their research. 

B & N provide ample chairs and tables for this purpose.  I started reading books on how to invest.  Books on real estate, not what I was looking for.  Books on investing in the stock market.  I wasn't interested.  Wall Street is paying billions of dollars in bonuses and I don't know anyone making that kind of money taking the "experts" advice that are reaping billion dollar results. 

Then I saw a book "The Collapse of the Dollar" by James Turk and John Rubino.  I read the book and purchased the book.  Then I read a book by Michael J. Kosares, "The ABC's of Gold Investing."  Read the book and bought the book.  Books by Howard Ruff, "How to survive in Ruff Times."   There are many other books about how to invest in gold and what NOT to do when investing in gold.  There are good books by other authors, such as those by Addington and  the Rich Man Poor Man series.   Some of these books will resonate with you and some will not, but you are Doing Your Own Due Dilligence. 

Then you are prepared to make an educated decision on what and how you should invest.  Your money is your money.  NO ONE has more vested interest in your money than you.  You decisions will be based on your economic situation, your age, your environment, etc.  If you are in your 30's your investment strategy will be different that someone in his/her Golden Years.  People living in an apartment cannot prepare to live off of the land. 

Hope this gives you a broader picture of how to proceed preparing for your future security.  DYODD. 

Peace.

 

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