How will you deal [later] with people in your life who [now] refuse to listen?

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Erik T.'s picture
Erik T.
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How will you deal [later] with people in your life who [now] refuse to listen?

I've recently come to realize that perhaps the biggest challenge we will face as individuals is not how we prepare ourselves and our immediate families for what is coming, but how we will eventually deal with the people in our lives who we have reached out to but who refuse to take seriously the warnings of the Crash Course.

To illustrate my point, see if this sounds familiar: You have people in your life who you care about. Close friends and your extended family, inlaws and so forth. You have tried to reach out to them and call their attention to the Crash Course, and perhaps you even spent some of your own money to buy the DVD version to give them as a gift this past holiday season.

But they refuse to listen or take you seriously. Some of them are even so rude as to roll their eyes and refer to Chris Martenson as a "crackpot" or to the Crash Course as senseless propaganda. They remain anxious for President Obama to "hurry up and fix the credit system" because they have been "suffering" for nearly three years now with the 5-series BMW they bought on easy borrowed money, and they very much want to trade it in for a new 7-series but they can't because "the system is broken".

Of course even the 5-series was well beyond their means but they don't see it that way, and feel that the world owes them a credit system that allows them to live well beyond their means on borrowed money. Sound familiar? Now fast-forward 10 years. It's 2019 and the family in question still has the 5-series BMW. In fact, they are now living in it because they lost their home, and it's the only source of shelter they can find. Gas is either unavailable or prohibitively expensive, so it is no longer a viable means of transportation.

Meanwhile, you were diligent and prepared yourself and your immediate family as well as you could. Your modest savings were put in gold and silver in physical bullion form, which has appreciated in real value considerably as the fiat monetary system collapsed. You are living a much harder life than you had before the big crash of the twenty-teens, but you're getting by. Now these people are at your doorstep, and the guilt trip is huge. PLEASE help us!!! Look at our poor starving children! You are now "rich" in their eyes, and the 5-yr old has tears in her eyes because her parents have described you as her "rich Uncle" who was so "selfish" back in the early stages of the crash that you didn't "participate in saving the economy" by spending money you didn't have on credit.

Because of your "greed", you now have much more than they do, and they are begging you to share what precious food, shelter and supplies you have with them. What do you do? What do you tell the crying 5-yr old? I'm already encountering people who have lived way beyond their means on borrowed money starting to expect me to bail them out because I am more financially comfortable than they are, and it's "obviously" the responsible thing for me to do. In their eyes.

For now, I have no problem telling them that they need to accept accountability for situations of their own making. But the vision of a toddler some day not understanding why a "greedy" person like myself doesn't think it his job to bail out the kid's irresponsible parents is a tough pill to swallow.

Most of the people I care deeply about have refused to take the CC seriously, and I'm pretty sure they will come to me for help some day. Have others thought through this sort of scenario? How to you plan to handle it when the people who have refused to listen to you (or have even ridiculed you for your interest in the CC) come back looking for handouts? Erik

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

WTF is going on with the site lately? The original post was formatted as several paragraphs. Why is the whitespace all screwed up?

Erik

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

My sister asked for the "Cliff Notes" when I asked her to watch the videos!  Hahahaha!  Maybe that's what's needed.

Anyway, I've figured out what I'm going to say if someone shows up at my door (one or all of the following):

"Grab a hoe.  You're assigned 30 minutes a day in the garden."

"Help me hoist this calf - the meat's got to last us four months and I can't hang it by myself."

"The goats get milked at 4 p.m.  Do you want to milk or clean the barn at 6 a.m.?"

"The chicken coops gets opened at 6 a.m., shut and the eggs brought in at 7 p.m.  Can I count on you for that daily?"

"There's a huge limb down in the pond pasture; here's the ax & log cutter.  Take the wheelbarrow."

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Thats one hell of a question Erik.

Personally, the majority of my preparations have more to do with providing for my daughter than they do with any vision of the future that I might entertain. As a parent, its the prudent thing to do.

But how do I deal with a friend or extended family member who dismisses this responsibility of parenthood, and fails to prepare for an unknown future? I honestly don't know.

I remember reading that during the great depression, many people sent their kids to live with friends or family members that were better off and could provide for them. Perhaps this is a reasonable solution to an unreasonable situation.

Its a thought-provoking dilemma. Thanks for the thread.

(edit: I always spell your name wrong....I fixed it....sorry about that)

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Hi Erik,

 

Thats a tough question.Most of my family thinks I am a bit eccentric to say the least because  I worry about what will happen. Daughter and son-in-law have the big macmansion and new cars and big tv and lots of payments. They just don't get it.  I fear that they will be liviing with us in our small little house but there is no way I would turn out my daughter and grand children. I am not sure how to answer when others may want some help.

 

Ken

 

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Wow Erik what a question to ask.  In a way, I suppose it is quite a personal question because everyone has to deal with it when it happens in their own way.

To be smart, I imagine the way I would answer their need for help is in the same way they answer me now when I speak of future times.  That is to switch the conversation quicklly to something like the weather, or some other innane benign topic!   Of course I wouldn't do that but to make a point I would feel like it.

Lbart, I think you are too easy on people.  Anybody needing food will be doing a full days work if they need me to give them food on my 17 acres.  Although I am worried there will be more people arrive than food available.... 

Erik I think there is more than just money involved here ... maybe money won't be traded, or maybe there is no food to buy ....  but I am a real doom and gloom merchant.  I just think grow your own is the only way to go in future.  But that is just me.

I will try to help everybody.  And will continue to do so unless my own kids are hungry.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Yes Erik, your experience of folks not listening to you sounds familiar and yes I have thought a great deal about this.

I tell myself I would turn them away with a big "I told you so!", but then once I subdue my pridefulness I admit that I would help as much as I could. Heck, most of my preparations are for numbers much larger than my wife and three little ones anyway, so the tough guy posturing is just to make myself feel better. Some of the other websites that prophecy doom and gloom, talk about shooting 'zombies'  who eminate from the cities to steal food. That's fear talkin'. Or heartlessness. I think the 'zombies' would be humble and grateful and, family or not, I think that I and 'most everybody reading this would help out to the degree they could, short of endangering their own survival.

If (when) that day comes, one thing is for sure: they listen to you then!

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

you should probably set things up as if all the kids and grandkids will show up. but there is no free lunch, they would have to pitch in with the work.

On the bright side, there is strength in numbers.

 

On an even brighter side: unlike the grid down nuclear scenario, with the likely financial breakdown, there will likely be some semblance of order in society with goods being available for the right price or trade item.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Erik, honestly?

I'm going to tell them to go pound salt. They were warned, I told them exactly what would happen, and they acted like grasshoppers while this ant salted away and deferred his means to a later date. I don't see it as a pride issue. If any emotion is involved it's disgust. See, I sincerely want to get away from the sheep one way or another. I certainly wouldn't invite them in to live with me.

Prudence, not pride. You simply cannot save everyone. And you simply cannot prepare for everyone. Might I add that my plans include "cloaking" as much of my lifestyle as I can so that I don't come across as "rich" to anyone. For example, save my one brother (who is completely on-board, unemployed, but "gets it" ) the rest of my family doesn't know about my silver and gold holdings. Nor will they. They don't know about any other preparations either. Why? Well, i am 43. I know my oldest sister would be seeking institutional committment for my beliefs so i don't even bother. See, she'll be thinking that I'm just as bad off as she is. The other family members that "get it" will be putting in 12 hour workdays. No work, no eat. Myself included.

There is simply nothing that you will be able to do. If you try to "save the world" at that point then you'll be dragged down with them.

It's harsh, but if things get that bad then you'd BETTER look out for you and your family first and co-opt with family and folks that "got it" beforehand. Not converts. Hunger will make anyone agree with you until they are satiated.

I disagree with taking them in. People today do not use reason. They emote. And I sure as heck don't want people on my homestead that are going to suddenly turn my property and my belongings into a "democracy". Which is exactly what I think would happen.

If they missed the boat on the greatest socioeconomic mess in history, then what makes you think that they'll "get it" the second time around? Honestly?

The issue with kids is a tough one. But how many can you support? 5? 10? Give the parents the message from time to time. I believe it's your moral obligation and something that you CAN do. But at a certain misey level then stop. If they "ain't gettin' it at that point, then they ain't ever gettin' it". Then go incognito. Low key.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Very good and appropriate question Eric!

Yes, I'm running across the same thing on a daily basis.  Our best friends who come over frequently and in which I've had numerous conversations aren't exactly in "denial", but they aren't preparing either.  He and I are "gun" buddies in which we frequent the range on occasion and buy ammo, equipment, etc..for each other when we see it.  She, is my wife's best friend and they see each other every day.  He has taken the CC and understands the concepts but is still under the impression that the gov't will save the day.  She has continuously pushed Him to buy PM's as well as to start stocking up on food.  She sees that I've been right for a couple years and continue to be, so she is using common sense and saying "we need to prepare!".  His comments are "We'll just head to YOUR house!"   Yeah, you heard it right!  He's expecting to come to MY house!  She, being pretty coward by him, due to his "the man is the head of the house" attitude says the same thing.  I don't think She does it because She wants to though.  They have a son that has become a son to me as well so.......what to do, what to do.  

As for this couple, I've prepared for them.  I've put away enough food, ammo, living essentials, etc...... for them to live with us if need be.  But as has been stated, they will work for their keep.  

The "others" that have been warned and have done the minimal to nothing and/or have scoffed at me and my preps.....they can go to hell!  I mean that with the utmost ferocity!  I've warned them over and over again!  I've sent them CM's reports as well as many other info that stated things were going to get tough.  If they've chosen to ignore me, then they've shown a lack of respect for me IMO.  They can go to hell as far as I'm concerned.

Cheers!

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

I honestly don't know if I'll be all that much better off than most of my family and friends.  Over the past year or so my wife and I have scaled back our standard of living dramatically, exchanging a nice house for a 2 bedroom apartment and eliminating as many debts and expenses as possible.  We're lucky enough to have a considerable household income now and we've been saving as much money as possible, but thus far all we've been able to do is diversify and protect our growing but modest savings and give ourselves a larger safety buffer (in the form of storable food and emergency supplies and savings).  We are not in a position to buy property outright and probably won't be for another year, and while we are renting our long-term preparation options have been limited.  So our ability to be in a position to help others financially or otherwise is highly subject to what happens in the next year or two.  I would guess many others here are in the same boat.

Let's say I'm fortunate in being able to carry out most of my long-term preparations, and despite having a far from easy life I am in a position to help others who earlier refused to listen.  If there's a way to support them without putting my family in immediate danger, I hope I'll be able to set aside my resentment and assist them.  However like Lbart and Amanda, I would expect them to contribute in every way possible and not bitch (excessively anyway) about it.  If over time said people proved their commitment to the household, they will be true partners of the household from that point on and have a say in how things are done (until then they'd need to follow my family's lead).  And from a purely practical perspective, as long as resources are sufficient (space and food) I think I would see a long-term advantage in taking in as many hard-working people and families as resources will allow.  My family is highly unlikely to be completely self-sufficient, and the more we have who can work in growing/fishing/hunting for food and doing other necessary tasks, the better off my family and everyone else will be.  Lastly, if things get really ugly and security becomes a big concern, having a large household may not only increase our defensive options but also discourage some predators through size alone. 

And if we're not so fortunate and have to come others to help, I will do my best to state our case that we can be an asset to the household and that pooling our resources will make us all better off.  For example I have several family and friends who own their property outright, but lack a large supplly of storable food and other useful supplies that my family has been able to acquire.  Plus we have skills that most of my family/friends, and come to think of it most people, lack (medical and engineering).  My intention would be to form a partnership between our families, and hopefully we'd both be stronger for it.  I think the majority of us here will be in this situation; we will NEED to find like-minded individuals and families with which to pool our skills and resources, because going it on our own will not be sustainable.

The more I think about it, in just about every possible scenario I think Chris has it pegged right.... community will make all the difference.

- Nickbert

 

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Good topic Erik and it is always on my mind (a lot of people I know call us "doomers").

A few years ago we bought a 50 acre'ish wooded property with a fair size house and 2 good size outbuildings. The plan was that those who wanted safety would help rebuild the outbuildings for space and storage as both outbuildings have room for 2nd and 3rd stories. If the other stories don't get built before they get here - they can get built after. . . by hand. Along with all the other work to be done - gardens, cutting and planting woods, fences, animal cares and the list could go on.

Putting campers on the property if needed is also an option as when asked what they should do I often think they will leave the place theyy are at now for a safer. more food secure haven.

The basic plan was to have enough stored to get by the first year and build stock and gardens as needed. I keep "starter livestock" like multi-purpose hens & roosters, dairy goats and have been thinking about getting a set of cows and sheep (which do not multiply to the extent goats and chickens, rabbits and such do but would be good for variety). I also stock enough seed each year to expand the gardens if needed and try to increase the size of what I save. And, I really lucked out in finding a glass greenhouse on craigslist that will expand my varieties and growing season.

The place is about 2 miles from a railroad and I have no reason to turn anyone away if they are willing to work. As a matter of fact, I was thinking about having a 2012 party here to see what happens since I wouldn't want to be any place else and I would want as many people around me as possible.

I can understand you are angry and hurt about people not listening to you now. It can feel like a lonely journey but in truth, it's one of peace.    That's the End Game!

EndGamePlayer

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Seeing some of the other posts, I guess that I should add that while some of my friends and family have not been receptive to the possibilities the CC presents, for the most part they've been civil about it and not been mocking or derisive of me or of what they know of my preparations (we've kept some specifics to ourselves of course). I suppose I should feel lucky in that respect; coworkers making fun of me for such thoughts I can dismiss, but it'd be much harder if it's someone closer to me like family.  If some had been cruel about it instead, well maybe I'd feel more as Morpheus does and tell them to pound sand.  And it's possible that may be something I'd have to do anyway; perhaps after a short time someone will object to the work involved or feel 'entitled' to a share of my family's resources beyond what we're already sharing, and I would have to show them the road.  Any level of equal partnership would have to be earned over a great deal of time; with my family's welfare at stake I can't afford to take chances on someone whose commitment or motives may be suspect, and likewise we couldn't afford a member of the household who would not accept my family's decisions on how the household is run.  Or perhaps we will already be at maximum capacity with respect to available resources, and have no choice to turn them away even if they are wholeheartedly willing to contribute (this scenario is one of my biggest fears).  Unfortunately life is often unfair like that.  But if I'm able to take them in and they accept my conditions without question, then I will give them a chance.... and at that point it is ultimately up to them whether they work out as members of the household or don't. 

- Nickbert

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

We are trying to move to a community that has good potential for future prosperity. Sort of...Nancy is not feeling the same level of drive I have. She has refused thus far to watch the CC. We have two friends with property, one with a large cabin in this community. If we are unsuccessful in our move before the need to be there arises, we will rely on our friends' kindness for land. Shelter will be my own responsibility.  I will try to have the building supplies I need to make it already purchased. I will have much to bring to the table in the way of food, water supply, protection and MacGyver type skills and implements in many areas. 

This being said, I may not even have the ability to help. I have troubled over this very much and have changed my answer many times.

I am going to use this thread as the proverbial boot in the *** for our families and friends to see if I can get them to watch the CC.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Great thread idea, Erik.

If SHTF today, the preps my wife & I have made wouldn't allow us to help anyone other than ourselves.  I feel as if we've got enough aspects covered that we could approach a group that's got everything set up and "apply for membership" without seeming to them like moochers/zombies.  It makes me think like the two of us have our own post-crash dowry.  Tongue out  "If you 'marry' us we have 6 months food, PMs, some knowledge and a lightly-used shotgun!"  

As I've written in the "Community Building" thread, my plan is to be living in a village-type community that's fairly self-sufficient in about 2 years' time.  We all know how life has ways of changing our plans, though.

Yes, turning away a weepy 5-year-old (and his/her mom/dad etc.) who's hungry and cold because their people didn't prepare would be incredibly difficult.  In my perfect world I'd have some surplus to share (probably wouldn't want them staying).  In the actual world, how could I give away food or supplies to other people when that would mean taking food or something essential away from my tribe/family?  I'm posing the question hypothetically because I never want to have to answer it.  

Many survival-oriented sites will tell you that you're not truly "prepared" until you have surplus to give away as charity post-SHTF.  FWIW.

For those that say they'd put people to work in exchange for food, what happens when 20 people show up?  Or 100?

This is going to be one of the most difficult parts of post-Crash life, IMO.  Hard labor raising food/livestock etc. is one thing.  One's hands develop calluses and you keep on keepin' on.  The parts of me that would have to develop calluses to turn hungry folks away...I don't even want to think about it.  

Viva -- Sager

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...
SagerXX wrote:

This is going to be one of the most difficult parts of post-Crash life, IMO.  Hard labor raising food/livestock etc. is one thing.  One's hands develop calluses and you keep on keepin' on.  The parts of me that would have to develop calluses to turn hungry folks away...I don't even want to think about it.  

Sager, to turn a hungry child away would be horrible this is assuming that the people that have nothing will just go home and starve to death crying that they failed to prepare, however if the people around you get hungry enough and they know you have food they will try to take it.  This is a given, survival instincts will kick in for several people.

Option 1: share all you have with the people around you

Result: you all live well and happy for the short time the resources last.  Than you get to be party of the have nots/mob/food rioters to survive

Option 2: Not share and defend what you have

Result: not all but you will need to harm/kill people around you -or- die trying

Option 3: not share and not defend what you have

Result: not all but some will take what you have for themselves and you starve.

Option 4: prepare alot more food and methods to make food and produce clean water and defend yourself

Result:  you spend alot of resources, people around you live well off of your work but people outside all of you will come for your resources sooner or later

Option 5: prepare well and hide food  not letting people know you have it, act hungry and destitue during hard times

Result: people around you not ready die off

The issue comes down: the human population will adjust to the resource levels available.  This balance will in the short run be effected by resources availible (can goods, dried goods, bullets, fuel etc.) and in the long run by sustainablility of these resources (farming, renewable energy, hunting, logging etc.).  Also, this will be greatly effected by the knowledge and training you and the people around you have in farming, medical skills, hunting, building, etc.

It is not a pleasent thought and not fun to talk about, but change is happening.  The best we can do is be as self sustaining as we can be, learn as much as we can and (hopefully not but) be mentally ready to do what is needed help our  "tribes" survive the times to come.    

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

This is an excellent thread in that it's very thought provoking, but it seems to have gotten slightly off topic in that the discussion is generally now on to how to deal with people in general who come for help rather than the original post that asks about "How to deal with people who are in your life now,"   ie  family and friends who later come to you for help. It's one thing to refuse strangers who are intent on surviving even at your expense (they'll get a bullet sandwich at my farm) but another to turn away a brother or a friend who was previously obtuse, but now supplicant. This was the dilemna Erik posed with the 5 year old child scenario. I don't think anyone with the wisdom to make extensive preparations is going to then turn around and be life's chump in a meltdown by turning over his lifeboat to a "democracy". The torturous decision posed by the subject question is what to do about those that you care about, or previously cared about. And what about a stranger, maybe also  with children, who never heard about the impending doom. Screw everybody but me? I couldn't do that. That's why I've given thought to this and in my preparations, made provisions for surplus by creating the ability to go into food production rather than just storing food. I think the "I told you so!" that I referred to in my previous post would be a lot more enjoyable for me if I were able to deliver it to my friends with a smile as I handed them a lamb chop.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...
earthwise wrote:

This is an excellent thread in that it's very thought provoking, but it seems to have gotten slightly off topic in that the discussion is generally now on to how to deal with people in general who come for help rather than the original post that asks about "How to deal with people who are in your life now,"   ie  family and friends who later come to you for help. 

Good point.  If we're blessed with enough time (2 years?), then we'll be ready to take on my bro & his family (the only family anywhere near us physically).  I already joke w/him about it, since he doesn't see what's coming -- all I can do is plant the seed as if I'm joshing.  Once he gets through denial, he'll zoom through the other stages real quicklike.  And I'll have him planting beans by sundown.  [smile]

BUT:  we (wife & I) are a long way from being able to take care of ourselves, much less anyone else...

Viva -- Sager

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Earthwise,

Thanks for bringing it back a bit.  

I think we've all had similar family/friend reactions to our zealous education/preparation to the coming hardships.  In my case, I've endured some harsh ridicule from friends that are still living their over consumptive lives in DC/VA/MD.  My immediate family (father/mother) have taken the CC and have moved dramatically in the right direction, as has my brother.  Others such as uncles, aunts, cousins....not so much or at all.  Some again have blatantly accused me of trying to ruin their lives with "horror" stories or "scare tactics".  I can tell you all, that my actions have been the farthest from aggressive in nature.  Unless you think occasional emails with information/education being attached with disclaimers stating "if you don't want me to send this stuff...tell me" to be aggressive then...?  

I honestly think many of these people have taken this stance because they see me as having gone from a position of power and wealth creation (making over $1m per year), to a "crack pot" in their eyes.  Who really knows!  But to me, it's nothing less than a lack of respect for WHO I am instead of WHAT I am.  I WAS, in their eyes, a beacon of power.  Now, not so much.  So in other words, they liked WHAT I DID not WHO I AM.  

So because of this, many of these people will come to me and ask for forgiveness and want my help.  To me it would be against my morals to help people of that mentality.  Now, if they have a 5 year old that's crying and needs help I'll help the 5yo however I can.  But not the parents.  If I have to take them out, so be it.  It's my family first....period!

Cheers!

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...
nickbert wrote:

I honestly don't know if I'll be all that much better off than most of my family and friends.  Over the past year or so my wife and I have scaled back our standard of living dramatically, exchanging a nice house for a 2 bedroom apartment and eliminating as many debts and expenses as possible.  We're lucky enough to have a considerable household income now and we've been saving as much money as possible, but thus far all we've been able to do is diversify and protect our growing but modest savings and give ourselves a larger safety buffer (in the form of storable food and emergency supplies and savings).  We are not in a position to buy property outright and probably won't be for another year, and while we are renting our long-term preparation options have been limited.  So our ability to be in a position to help others financially or otherwise is highly subject to what happens in the next year or two.  I would guess many others here are in the same boat.

Let's say I'm fortunate in being able to carry out most of my long-term preparations, and despite having a far from easy life I am in a position to help others who earlier refused to listen.  If there's a way to support them without putting my family in immediate danger, I hope I'll be able to set aside my resentment and assist them.  However like Lbart and Amanda, I would expect them to contribute in every way possible and not bitch (excessively anyway) about it.  If over time said people proved their commitment to the household, they will be true partners of the household from that point on and have a say in how things are done (until then they'd need to follow my family's lead).  And from a purely practical perspective, as long as resources are sufficient (space and food) I think I would see a long-term advantage in taking in as many hard-working people and families as resources will allow.  My family is highly unlikely to be completely self-sufficient, and the more we have who can work in growing/fishing/hunting for food and doing other necessary tasks, the better off my family and everyone else will be.  Lastly, if things get really ugly and security becomes a big concern, having a large household may not only increase our defensive options but also discourage some predators through size alone. 

And if we're not so fortunate and have to come others to help, I will do my best to state our case that we can be an asset to the household and that pooling our resources will make us all better off.  For example I have several family and friends who own their property outright, but lack a large supplly of storable food and other useful supplies that my family has been able to acquire.  Plus we have skills that most of my family/friends, and come to think of it most people, lack (medical and engineering).  My intention would be to form a partnership between our families, and hopefully we'd both be stronger for it.  I think the majority of us here will be in this situation; we will NEED to find like-minded individuals and families with which to pool our skills and resources, because going it on our own will not be sustainable.

The more I think about it, in just about every possible scenario I think Chris has it pegged right.... community will make all the difference.

- Nickbert 

 

Erik,

Excellent question.

I'm in similar circumstance and of the same mind as Nickbert.

Our actions should guided by wisdom and compassion.

Our first responsibility is to our family, then to our extended family, and then to the community at large.  Our charity should be directed and ordered by those priorities.

I find myself in a different situation.  I have a sibling that is absolutely convinced that chaos is just around the corner.  This person has held this belief for years and yet has done little to nothing about it.  He even jokes about it in a self incriminating way.

I’ve encouraged this person to become more active in preparing but I get the sense that my warnings and admonishments have gone unheeded.

All the same, I’ll do what I can to help according the resources available.

I see multigenerational living to become increasingly more common as families turn to each other to make it through difficult times.

As to the specific scenario of the 5 year old niece/nephew, I’d require they compensate me for any support rendered to the degree they are able.  If they are not able, then I’d extend charity to the degree that was prudent for as long as it was prudent.  If I only had the resources to support the 5 year old, I’d take the kid in with the caveat that the parents waive all of their parental rights.

The kid is innocent in every meaning of the word.  He/She had no control over the foolishness of the parents.  I’d do everything in my power to help to the degree it did not harm my ability to fulfill my responsibilities to my wife and own children.

I personally don’t think a total collapse is in the works but regardless difficult times are headed our way.  The point of interdependency is well made.  It will serve us all well if we chose our friends and allies wisely.  That process should have already begun.  It will undoubtedly continue as a crisis will expand the opportunity to add to those who can contribute to whatever community you chose to form or join.

Joining with folks of the same mind and core values while not necessary may result in far fewer and smaller problems down the road. (perhaps some of you are starting to see a theme emerge in my postsWink)

Morpheus wrote:

Erik, honestly?

I'm going to tell them to go pound salt. They were warned, I told them exactly what would happen, and they acted like grasshoppers while this ant salted away and deferred his means to a later date.

This made me laugh because I had just finished reading the following forwarded to me by my father:

Quote:

THE ANT  AND THE GRASSHOPPER

This  one is a little different....
Two Different Versions!  ................. Two Different  Morals!

OLD  VERSION: The  ant works hard in the withering heat all summer  long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The  grasshopper  thinks the ant  is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come  winter, the ant  is warm and well fed.

The grasshopper  has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL  OF THE STORY: Be  responsible for yourself

MODERN  VERSION:

The ant  works hard in the withering heat all summer  long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The  grasshopper  thinks the ant  is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come  winter, the shivering grasshopper  calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant  should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others are cold and  starving.

CBS, NBC ,  PBS, CNN, and ABC show up to provide pictures of  the shivering grasshopper  next to a video of the   ant  in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.  America  is stunned by the sharp contrast.

How  can this be, that in a country of such wealth,  this poor grasshopper  is allowed to suffer so?

Kermit  the Frog appears on Oprah  with the grasshopper  and everybody cries when they sing, 'It's Not Easy Being Green.'

Acorn  stages a demonstration in front of the ant  's house where the news stations film the group  singing, 'We shall overcome.'  Rev. Jeremiah Wright  then has the group kneel down to pray to God for the grasshopper's  sake.

Nancy Pelosi &  Harry Reid exclaim in an interview with Larry  King that the ant has gotten rich off the back  of the grasshopper,  and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant  to make him pay his fair share.

Finally, the EEOC  drafts the Economic Equity &  Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the  beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate  number of green bugs  and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is  confiscated by the Government  Green Czar.

The  story ends as we see the grasshopper  finishing up the last bits of the ants  food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's  old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it.

The  ant has  disappeared in the snow.

The grasshopper  is found dead in a drug related incident and the  house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize  the once peaceful neighborhood.

MORAL  OF THE STORY:  Be  careful how you vote in 2010.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

The ant and grasshopper story is SO true! 

So it seems part of our preparations need to be how to handle those who didn't prepare, but think they are entitled to whatever they want, simply because they exist. I'm pretty sure that most people who currently get some sort of governement handout will be totally unwilling to work or be a contributing member of any community. 

This is kind of equivalent to medical triage in the event of a mass casualty disaster. You have to let some people with the most serious injuries die, because the resources aren't available to save them, without taking away from others who need those resources to survive. You allocate the resources in the best possible way to save the most people. Meaning someone could sustain a very serious injury in a mass casualty and be left to die, but if they had sustained that same injury in isolation, they would probably have all the resources needed devoted to saving their lives. 

Thanks to OP for brining this up, and alerting us to think about these issues in advance. 

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

The thing is we have been so spoiled living in easy times that we have never had to think about these things till this point in time.  So we are not used to having to face these dilemas and harsh realities.

This thread is very timely.  I am having some issues with family watching CC over here.  It has gone down like a lead balloon.  That CC can be highly emotive, divisive, threatening .... the list goes on.   They say if they aren't an economist how can they objectively assess the content etc etc - all statistics are a matter of interpretation etc etc.

OMG I have had enough.  Am reassessing whether I would indeed take these people in.  I've just had it with ignorance.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Great thread! I have been discussing this very issue with my wife lately. She has the heart of gold, and would be willing to help anyone, but I of course have a heart of anthracite coal. We are trying to save enough money to buy some extra food to give away to family & neighbors. On the other hand, I am leary of letting the leaches in though. I think as a society we are so spoiled and entitled that it will be difficult to bring in someone, even family, in your home and think that they will have restraint with your resources. They will take food and supplies as soon as you turn your back. I imagine barely one in one thousand Americans know what it is like to feel starvation. In order to let someone in, I think they will need a compelling argument for why it would be good for us, whether it be safety in numbers, bringing special skills or materials, good work ethic etc... Preferably all of the aforementioned.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

 come  on for as much as I can  tell not many  of us here will be able to take care of ourselves in worst case  , let alone take in others .  It is going to take people pitching in together to make it ,  always has always will.     No one has the gifts or talents to cover every area .   You scratch my back I'll scratch yours .

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

Amanda,

When they come back to you in a few years begging for food and shelter, I suggest that you simply ask them, "If you're not an economist, how can you be sure you are really needy?"

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Erik

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

This is a great thread.

I learned some pretty hard lessons before my father died and the long drawn out illness he endured.  I was living away from the UK with one small daughter and a wife who wasn't doing too well when she was expecting our second daughter and a job that was going crazy with respect to pressures.  Despite my desire to go and see and support him, there were some other people who utterly depended on me and my well being, that being MY immediate family of course me. Coldly speaking, I reaslised that I had to invest in the future generation rather than the past and the past generation could only be cared for so long as the future generation was okay; as I say, I'm looking at this very coldly.  However, this forms the basisof my approach and I have to say it does cause me some guilt.

So, look after myself and my family as a priority

Continue to drip pieces of information to relatives and freinds about what is going on in the world if they are not open to the full realities of what lies ahead; practically none of them are open to the CC and all have "faith" that politicians will eventually grasp and deal with these situations

I have compiled a list of those that I would work with more readily that the other.  It harsh, but I cannot be in a situation whereby I am having to carry people whilst they go through grief or whatever emontions they decide to have

I lean to something that's not too cosy and I hope that if we experience some kind of soft landing there will be time to accomdate everyone

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

What are your plans for everyone (myself included)  that may not be able to  be completely Self - Sufficient /reliant ?     Survival of the fittest ?   I prefer baths , not showers .

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...
ErikTownsend wrote:

Amanda,

When they come back to you in a few years begging for food and shelter, I suggest that you simply ask them, "If you're not an economist, how can you be sure you are really needy?"

Sorry, couldn't resist...

Erik

LOL !   Well said Erik !   Although the good news is that we have made progress since then with willingness to watch the CC atleast, which I am grateful for.

Erik, will your family that you speak of be prepared to watch the CC?  There is a new 45 minute version - as you know - as a taster.

Britinbe, it is said that before the collapse of some civilisations they ate the elderly first.  So sad when a healthy society should feel that the older generation provide knowlegde and wisdom and hold great value just for their past contributions. 

 

 

 

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

I've been through this for about 8 years now. I saw this whole thing unravelling back in 2000 when I started reading the right books ( BTW I recommend 'Valuing Wallstreet' by Andrew Smithers & Co)

So I started talking to friends, family and colleagues about this. I was mocked and ignored at right up until last year  :-) 

Initially I was the subject of much  humour. Then it started getting a bit cold. People didn't want to know and my wife asked me to  back off. Now that my predictions are starting to happen they say it was MY FAULT !! Like I caused the banking crisis Surprised

Oh well - pearls before swine

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One Second After

After listening to the audiobook One Second After, a very realistic tale about life after an EMP strike to the US, I must conclude that society would change so significantly, that it is impossible to determine how one would react in advanced. Needless to say its a very sobering look at the post-TSHTF world, and what seems like  unthinkable behavior now would be very common behavior under this scenario.

A hat tip to Capesurvivor for recommending it to me.

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Re: How will you deal [later] with people in your life who ...

This is a timely subject that is getting talked about in several of the forums I belong to.  I've thought about this a bunch myself and am not sure I know what I'll do.  I've tried and tried to talk to my family and while they are agreeing with me about my assessment of the situation, they are unwilling to do anything to prepare.  My brother talks about how he'd like to stockpile, but cannot afford to, yet they eat out at least 3 times a week and his wife hits the salon regularly.  My sister is a single mother of 2 that does not make much money, but when she refinanced the house, she took extra out for a new patio and was talking about a vacation.  Even my wife says she believes what I say, but when we came into a bit of extra cash, she wanted to buy a new sofa set instead of PMs.  Right now, I can take care of my own family for a while, but that amount of time gets less and less with each set of mouths to feed added.

I get tired of hearing 'If this happens, I'm coming to your house'.  I'll tell ya, the first time my brother comes asking if we have any extra food to share, I'm going to ask him for the title to my sister-in-laws BMW in exchange.  Not that it would be of any use to me anyway, but if I'm going to sell one of my cars to be able to buy stuff to stock up on, it's only right that she loses her car too if she is going to help consume that stock.

For now though, I'm just buying what I can, when I can and quietly tucking it away in the cupboards and not even letting the wife know what all we have.  When we need it, it will be there and it need not be talked about before then.  I don't want to be seen as the neighborhoods store house.  Sure, I'll have a little extra to share, but not all that much.  If a neighbor needs a little bit to get them to a family gathering place somewhere out of state, then I'll try to help.  If they just need a little, with no plan for the future, then it becomes more difficult. 

The situation would dictate a lot too.  If we are looking at a week of bank holidays and people just need a bit to get by, it's easier to help, but if we are looking at empty store shelves and no shipments in site, then it's tougher.  Human behaviour would be difficult to in that situation.  When the Titanic when down, there were half full life boats that rowed away from peoples screams because of the fear of being overwhelmed if they tried to help.  There were others that rowed towards the screams, that did try to help.  I don't know what to expect if this catastrophe falls on us as hard as it looks like it will.

Dang, this is something like the 4th or 5th post I've done in a row that is pretty negative.  I'm normally pretty upbeat, but am feeling a bit discouraged lately.

Tim

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