This is How We Take Action

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This is How We Take Action

 If you really want to do something to fight the Fed/Gov, this would be it:

"Starve The Beast" - July 4th, 2009

 

Perhaps its time.

There have been a number of people on the forum talking about this, with one of the most recent converts being "iflyjetzzz".

Look, we can rant and rave about market manipulation and government-sponsored games.  We can petition the SEC, the FBI and Congress.  We can demand that they stop it all we want.

But they haven't and likely won't until and unless America gets pissed off enough to force them to act.

So how do we make that happen, yet remain within the law?

Its not that hard, and in the intermediate and longer-term it would be incredibly positive for our economy and nation.

We go on a consumption strike until and unless our demands are met.

What are our demands?  Here's the list:

  • All the financial fraudsters are investigated, indicted, and prosecuted.  This includes the con artists in CONgress who got "special deals" from Mozilo and his "Friends of Angelo" program (and who are blocking a subpoena to BofA as it would implicate them), it includes those past and current members ofGovernment Sachs, and it includes all those other financial "professionals" who deceived Americans and others with their sale of toxic exploding mortgage products along with the securities supposedly backed by them.
  • Glass-Steagall is restored, in full, and all the firms that can't exist under it are broken up.  Period.
  • The insider-trading that has become blatant and outrageous is prosecuted where illegal and where not, is made illegal and then prosecuted, with the focus being on the size of the scam.  This includes obvious circumstances such as August 2007 (Bernanke's phone logs were FOIA'd) where trading patterns made clear that "certain someones" had foreknowledge of the discount rate cut along with Congresspeople who were briefed on the TARP and within hours or days made significant stock trades.  Today if you're Martha Stewart you're prosecuted where if you make millions in an hour by exploiting government information "leaks" the SEC and FBI look the other way.
  • The Government withdraws all of its backstopping of financial firms who created this mess.  All of it.  If you're a bank or other firm and did something imprudent, you fail.  Period.  This is true whether you're a small regional bank (as is happening now; 5 in the last week) or a big behemoth like Citibank or Bank Of America.  No "special deals", no "special guarantees", nothing of the kind.  If the government wishes to avoid "systemic risk" then the government regulators can do their damn job.
  • The Fed disgorges all of its improperly-acquired MBS and other related securities.  If it doesn't have a full-faith-and-credit guarantee and was bought, it is disgorged - period.
  • The Fed agrees to full annual audits without exception.
  • Those people inside government who conspired with certain bankers to cook the books, along with those in the banks who did so, go to jail.  Our own Office of The Inspector General in the government has confirmed that there was an active conspiracy to break the law within the OTS, but not one indictment has been issued.
  • Those who committed fraud in the creation of this economic mess, whether they be mortgage lenders, those who packaged up securities while intentionally omitting credit information, those in the real estate industry to pressed for appraisal fraud and others are investigated, prosecuted and if convicted jailed.  All of them.
  • Losses are born by those who made bad decisions, not the taxpayer generally.  Those who made good decisions get to reap the benefits, while those who made bad decisions eat the losses.  No exceptions.
  • Government cuts the annual budget deficit to zero.  If government wants to blow the money it has to have the money.  If they can't raise the money they don't spend it.  It is time to live within our means and hold government to account for its profligate spending along with promises of "benefits" they know they cannot actually deliver down the road such as Medicare Part D.

Until then the position of those who wish to join is simple: No non-essential purchases of anything are made.  Period.

What's an essential purchase?  Here's the list:

  • Enough food to eat at home.  No more eating out.
  • Rent and utilities.
  • Essential medical services.
  • Enough fuel to get to and from work.

In addition any "excess withholding" is stopped; if you are getting a big fat refund from the IRS every year you are loaning the government your money at zero interest until April.  Stop that; its stupid.  Change your W4 so you get exactly nothing back or owe a tiny amount; if you pay estimates pay only that which you must and not one dime more.

Note that it is unlawful to use your W4 to intentionally under-withhold, but you are in fact not obligated to pay one more dime in tax than you actually owe.  There is nothing wrong with adjusting withholding to match (as close as you reasonably can) your actual tax obligation.

Put the money you save (it will be a lot!) into a non-TARP Credit Union if you have one available to you, or a non-TARP local bank if you do not.  Spend none of it.

If we pledge to do this and not resume normal spending habits on wants as opposed to needs until and unless the budget is balanced, the bailouts are rolled back and those who committed fraud go to prison the government will be forced to act as they will simply run out of money. 

They cannot force you to buy that new iPOD or flatscreen TV, or to take an expensive vacation.

Consumer spending is 70% of the economy. 

This is a consumer weapon that is more powerful than any other means of peaceful protest.  Strangling the government and private business' ability to steal from us all by cutting off their revenue will force reform, and has the additional benefit of being exactly what this nation needs to provide a strong capital formation base when that reform is complete. 

If businesses want my money they can join in the chorus of voices demanding that government stop the looting and start prosecuting.

Will any of us be perfect in this endeavor?  No.  There will be the occasional indulgence I'm sure no matter who we are.  But I'm willing to bet we can shrink consumption - each and every one of us - by at least 10% without any real personal pain at all, and if we do so it will send an indelible message to those in government and business: cut that crap out!

July 4th is Independence Day.

Let's make it a day of freedom from the banksters and government financial marauders.

Who's with me?

 

This would force TPTB to their knees and provide the deflationary cure for what ails us as a nation. Besides, if it doesn't work, you still would be better off.

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Interesting idea, and I rather like the list of demands.  Though I think that it would take a long time (2+ months?) for the effects to become noticeable to those in charge.  And their first action would likely be to pump more artificial stimulus funny money into the banks and anywhere else they see fit to jump start the economy.  I don't see them giving in any such demands, or even listening to them, until after the financial system finally collapses under the weight of gov't overspending and bailouts.  I certainly agree it would scare the financial PTB (deflation seems to do that), I just think they will claw and cling on to any and all power and control within their grasp until it all slips away.  These folks voluntarily relinquishing power and control is about as likely as the Pope doing body shots with the girls at the Playboy mansion...

Really though this is already happening on a large scale, only most people are not doing it to protest but by necessity.  And even many of the people with steady jobs are cutting back on their expenditures (I am for one).  The people are already fighting back, even if they don't know it yet

- Nickbert

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Re: This is How We Take Action

I love it, but am conflicted. This weekend I put a new (second) garden in at home. That would need to be postponed under this plan. All the spending I am doing to prepare in general falls under this plan.

It's worth it to me if I see enough Americans doing it simultaneously, if it becomes mainstream and people are talking about it.

Until then, I doubt a few folks withholding a few thousand dollars each (when that is already happening for many Americans involuntarily) would make an impact.

Who to lead us?

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Unfortunately, while the idea has surface appeal, the reality is that it won't make a lick of difference to TPTB. Those who are already filthy rich will care not a wit if you and I (and 1/2 the country) quit buying stuff for a week or a month or a year.

It's somewhat akin to previous appeals to everybody to not buy gasoline on a certain day. It just won't work.

Besides which, the only people it would hurt are those who are already hurting. The more businesses that lose revenue, the more people will be laid off, the less money will be spent in the economy, the more businesses lose money, etc., etc., etc.

The only ultimate answer is [Ed. note: Comment removed]

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Sam,

What better way to start a peaceful revolution? Surely you don't advocate going straight for the pitchfork???

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Re: This is How We Take Action

[Ed. note: Comment removed]

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Ready,

Over in the "What's The End Game?" thread, 'kaman' posted this (post #53):

In the future I see a steep steady decline in the quality of life on this planet, the entire planet, some years advancing faster than others.  There will be isolated pockets of extreme wealth but even they will erode with time.  A decline spiced with events such as periodic uprisings and revolts, scattered attempts of strong arm control, perhaps even a few population decreasing wars, followed by (if we're lucky) brief sporadic periods of relative peace.  But there are just too many power-lusting and greedy individuals within the human race for any one person or group to maintain omnipotent administrative control over a great period of time.  When this world was still mostly virgin territory, the population low, with abundant resources, we had our chance as a species to do great things with our existence, but we were our own worst enemy.  Human nature has repeatedly overshadowed intelligence.  Likewise, as we stumble forward from here along future's path, we will continue to encounter the potholes of good vs evil, power vs peace, greed vs conservativism.

I prepare for the worst, hope for the best, and sleep with one eye open.

I think kaman's perspective on our future reality is more applicable than some of the populace ceasing to buy extraneous goods for a while.

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Sam,

I do not attack your views, I hope I am not coming across that way.

We are treading dangerously close to a sensitive topic on this site, and I recommend we be very careful how we proceed.

 

If you look at the original revolution, the primary factor that was politicized was taxation without representation. It took years of broken negotiations and setbacks before the people were upset enough to have that nice little party with the tea sampling in Boston. While you may argue that this was not the beginning for the masses, assume for this thread that the Tea Party marked the beginning of mass awareness and desire of the common citizen to form militias and take a more aggressive stance. What would be the equivalent in 2009 of the Boston Tea Party? We certainly have the equivalent of taxation without representation, I'm sure we can agree on that.

You see, saying that we need it and getting the masses to follow that lead and act are 2 very different things, wouldn't you agree? Where do you start, where is our John Adams and Thomas Jefferson of the 2010s? What would the 2010 Continental Congress look like, and what event would be inspiring enough to demand the people of the US stand up and take notice?

While there is still a chance for a peaceful revolution, especially since it has not really even been tried yet, I'm afraid most will not jump directly to the pitchfork mode, nor should they, IMHO.

As I post this I am also alerting the moderator on myself in case they feel I am crossing any lines here, I submit that it is OK with me to pull this post and end the topic before it gets out of hand.

 

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Re: This is How We Take Action
Ready wrote:

Sam,

I do not attack your views, I hope I am not coming across that way.

We are treading dangerously close to a sensitive topic on this site, and I recommend we be very careful how we proceed.

 

If you look at the original revolution, the primary factor that was politicized was taxation without representation. It took years of broken negotiations and setbacks before the people were upset enough to have that nice little party with the tea sampling in Boston. While you may argue that this was not the beginning for the masses, assume for this thread that the Tea Party marked the beginning of mass awareness and desire of the common citizen to form militias and take a more aggressive stance. What would be the equivalent in 2009 of the Boston Tea Party? We certainly have the equivalent of taxation without representation, I'm sure we can agree on that.

You see, saying that we need it and getting the masses to follow that lead and act are 2 very different things, wouldn't you agree? Where do you start, where is our John Adams and Thomas Jefferson of the 2010s? What would the 2010 Continental Congress look like, and what event would be inspiring enough to demand the people of the US stand up and take notice?

While there is still a chance for a peaceful revolution, especially since it has not really even been tried yet, I'm afraid most will not jump directly to the pitchfork mode, nor should they, IMHO.

As I post this I am also alerting the moderator on myself in case they feel I am crossing any lines here, I submit that it is OK with me to pull this post and end the topic before it gets out of hand.

 

Ready,

I do not attack your views, I hope I am not coming across that way.

Please do not worry. I certainly don't feel attacked. Just a friendly exchange of views from my perspective.

We are treading dangerously close to a sensitive topic on this site, and I recommend we be very careful how we proceed.

[Ed. note: Comment removed]

As for the rest of your comments, I'm in agreement with you.

See, that wasn't so bad, was it?

 

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Re: This is How We Take Action
SamLinder wrote:

I hope I'm not treading on anyone's sensitivities here. A benign proposal for a way to bring TPTB to their knees was put forth. I'm just simply stating that I don't think it will work and that I don't believe peaceful protests will suffice to introduce the necessary changes this country needs to return to its original ideals.

As you may have noticed, I often drive to the activity side of any discussion that comes up. In other words, if there is nothing I can DO about it, I typically don't waste my time with it. At the core, I would like to act and I appreciate the discussion as to the best way to proceed.

My goal here is to understand just how you would bring the beast out if it's cave with your figurative pitchfork without starting and getting behind some cause that would rally the American people? While I agree that this particular plan has some holes in it, what exactly do you recommend? Serious question. If you feel the answer requires violence, let's please end the public discussion now.

edited in for your amusement: Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui.

Best,

Rog

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Re: This is How We Take Action
Ready wrote:
SamLinder wrote:

I hope I'm not treading on anyone's sensitivities here. A benign proposal for a way to bring TPTB to their knees was put forth. I'm just simply stating that I don't think it will work and that I don't believe peaceful protests will suffice to introduce the necessary changes this country needs to return to its original ideals.

As you may have noticed, I often drive to the activity side of any discussion that comes up. In other words, if there is nothing I can DO about it, I typically don't waste my time with it. At the core, I would like to act and I appreciate the discussion as to the best way to proceed.

My goal here is to understand just how you would bring the beast out if it's cave with your figurative pitchfork without starting and getting behind some cause that would rally the American people? While I agree that this particular plan has some holes in it, what exactly do you recommend? Serious question. If you feel the answer requires violence, let's please end the public discussion now.

Best,

Rog

Ready,

My opinion is that drastic steps will eventually be required to [Ed. note: Comment removed]

With all due respect to your feelings, I will end this conversation now and not pursue it as I can see it does not sit well with you. Sorry if I've offended.

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Re: This is How We Take Action
SamLinder wrote:

With all due respect to your feelings, I will end this conversation now and not pursue it as I can see it does not sit well with you. Sorry if I've offended.

I think you misunderstood me. I am not in the slightest offended. Check your PM.

It is out of respect for the rules of the forum that I choose my words carefully, nothing more. Since ModeratorJason has not zapped the thread, I can only assume that to this point we have presented our discussion and ideas in a way that is acceptable, and I hope we can continue to do so.

Cheers,

Rog

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Re: This is How We Take Action

On the Impossibility of Limited Government and the Prospects for a Second American Revolution

http://mises.org/story/2874

I just started reading this article and thought it might have some interest in this thread.

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Wow - non-consumerism is finally becoming fashionable?

The only things we have bought in the last 2 years are things which are for sustaining us in the long run -

  • Wind & Solar power things.
  • Insulation and hy-Tech paint additives, window films and sealers for doors and windows. Basically powering down everything as much as possible.
  • Expanded gardens, seeds, plants and liquid seaweed, a few tools and other permaculture items, several dairy goats.
  • Bikes with power assist, no mow grass, alternative heat items for nicing up the woodstove, wood grill (was a charcoal grill but we burn wood in it),
  • Repaired items we have . . but not bought new cars, clothes or items in general.

I do object to not eating out as I see no reason resteraunts should suffer. I also see no reason to go without any comforts and not taking advantage of the lowest prices on items in years.

If you really want to object you could:

  • take your money out of the stock market and buy a second home (they are cheap now and the market is a gamble). People will always need a place to live and seashore housing, lake homes, cabins and retirement digs are a really enjoyable place to hang in later years.
  • Right on - take your max deductions and it really pays to be REALLY RICH in this World - OR REALLY POOR. Everyone else gets screwed. Get a financial plan that gets you one place ot the other.
  • Vote for anyone but the incumbant - every year. MN couldn't stand the "business as usual" gov and voted in Jesse Ventura - doesn't that tell you something!

EGP

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Jeff - I like the idea!

gregroberts - thanks for that interesting link.  I think it would be very dangerous to end the constitution, the possible problem is...who will write the replacement?  There is no one in this present government that I would trust to such an endeavor.

There is much evidence supporting the fact that democracies decay which is why we have a republic, a system of laws rather than popular opinion.  Granted, we have moved towards corporatism (fascism) but that is not because of the constitution, it's because we no longer abide by it.

Larry

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Re: This is How We Take Action

[Ed. note: Comment removed]

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Re: This is How We Take Action
joe2baba wrote:

will wonders never cease ...........................i find myself in agreement with sam linder................welcome to my world or am i in yours?

LOL! Strange times are these, joe, strange times. Perhaps we are overlapping?

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Re: This is How We Take Action
gregroberts wrote:

On the Impossibility of Limited Government and the Prospects for a Second American Revolution

http://mises.org/story/2874

I just started reading this article and thought it might have some interest in this thread.

 

Greg,

Interesting article so far. I'm still working my way through it but had to pause to comment on this paragraph:

In this regard insurance agencies also seem to fit the bill. They are big and in command of the resources — physical and human — necessary to accomplish the task of dealing with the dangers, actual or imagined, of the real world. Indeed, insurers operate on a national or even international scale. They own substantial property holdings dispersed over wide territories and beyond the borders of single states and thus have a manifest self-interest in effective protection. Furthermore, all insurance companies are connected through a complex network of contractual agreements on mutual assistance and arbitration as well as a system of international reinsurance agencies representing a combined economic power that dwarfs most if not all contemporary governments. They have acquired this position because of their reputation as effective, reliable, and honest businesses.

I almost choked when I read this last sentence. This was obviously written (June 2008) before AIG's shenanigans came to light! Now that we're at the end of June 2009, I wonder if the author still holds to his theory.

As for dispensing with the Constitution, I'm not inclined to agree with that. Since it has been amended at least 25 times (that I know of), I think we would be better served to amend it yet again to change the bad parts instead of tossing the baby out with the bath water.

[Edit to comment on the rest of the article]

I think the author is out to lunch with his idealistic view of insurance companies being the answer to our problems. He conveniently ignores how quickly insurance companies currently cancel policy holders when they decide they don't want to insure them anymore. I would no more trust these monolithic insurance companies than I do the current PTB.

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Re: This is How We Take Action
Ready wrote:
SamLinder wrote:

With all due respect to your feelings, I will end this conversation now and not pursue it as I can see it does not sit well with you. Sorry if I've offended.

I think you misunderstood me. I am not in the slightest offended. Check your PM.

It is out of respect for the rules of the forum that I choose my words carefully, nothing more. Since ModeratorJason has not zapped the thread, I can only assume that to this point we have presented our discussion and ideas in a way that is acceptable, and I hope we can continue to do so.

Cheers,

Rog

 

Rog,

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. … That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness." – The Declaration of Independence

If espousing the very views embedded in our Declaration of Independence causes the moderator to zap this thread, I will have lost all hope for this site.
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Re: This is How We Take Action

 Sam,

I'm disappointed that you dismissed this idea so quickly. Our country is run by corporations, and nothing is more important to a corporation than their bottom line. They are only as powerful as the money we give them makes them. Sure, its going to hurt us (the people) in the short term, but what we spend our money on (or not) is our only means of leverage over the corporations, government, and world.

If you want to end the current system, then stop funding it.

There is no need for bloodshed over this. We have all the power we need to change our country in our wallets.

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Re: This is How We Take Action
Ready wrote:

I love it, but am conflicted. This weekend I put a new (second) garden in at home. That would need to be postponed under this plan.

A garden seems like it qualifies as food "at home" to me, that is if your growing food in it I assume.

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Re: This is How We Take Action
SamLinder wrote:

Besides which, the only people it would hurt are those who are already hurting. The more businesses that lose revenue, the more people will be laid off, the less money will be spent in the economy, the more businesses lose money, etc., etc., etc.

I would regret causing people to lose their job, but the fact is they are going to lose their jobs anyway. For 50+ years corporations have done only what is in their self-interest, the citizens, the ecosystem, the environment be damned. Now its our turn to do what is in our self-interest, corporations be damned.

Besides, your going to have to save some money if you plan to fund the second American revolution

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Re: This is How We Take Action
JAG wrote:

 Sam,

I'm disappointed that you dismissed this idea so quickly. Our country is run by corporations, and nothing is more important to a corporation than their bottom line. They are only as powerful as the money we give them makes them. Sure, its going to hurt us (the people) in the short term, but what we spend our money on (or not) is our only means of leverage over the corporations, government, and world.

If you want to end the current system, then stop funding it.

There is no need for bloodshed over this. We have all the power we need to change our country in our wallets.

Jeff,

I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I honestly don't see how this idea can be effective. People will still need to make purchases to live and to try to enjoy life to a small degree. To expect a huge portion of the American population (now numbering over 300 million) to suddenly curtail virtually all purchases except the bare necessities is unrealistic, IMHO. And what would it take to make a dent in corporate profits? 1 million people, 5, 10, 20? Also, should everyone stop taking trips, stop visiting Disneyland and Disney World, stop eating out? If you carry this idea to its extreme, we should all become veritable hermits.

Also, as this is going on, people who had jobs will be losing them right, left, and center. What about them? In an attempt to wound corporations, you will destroy small businesses and throw tens of millions more people out of work. That will certainly cut down purchases - but at what cost?

Then, once we have destroyed the corporations (which I sincerely doubt), what will we have left? Hundreds of millions of unemployed, cities ravaged as businesses go under, taxes lost so no more services. Doesn't sound like an environment I would want to be a part of. Hello Mad Max?

Sorry, Jeff. I just don't see it.

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Re: This is How We Take Action
JAG wrote:

Besides, your going to have to save some money if you plan to fund the second American revolution

I'm waiting for my next stimulus check - then I'll see what I can do to help out.

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Re: This is How We Take Action
JAG wrote:
Ready wrote:

I love it, but am conflicted. This weekend I put a new (second) garden in at home. That would need to be postponed under this plan.

A garden seems like it qualifies as food "at home" to me, that is if your growing food in it I assume.

Jag, had to read that twice before I understood your meaning. You got me on the link to the PDF too. I guess this means I owe you 2 now.

Cheers

Rog

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Re: This is How We Take Action

 WOW !  This thread is a perfect microcosm of why nothing positive is happening in our country today - nobody can agree on anything.  So, instead of real change for the better, we all get our kicks by sharing our ideas (as eloquently as we can BTW) and then waiting to see if others are impressed.  (See, I'm doing it too.)  

No, seriously, all the honest sharing of ideas is interesting.  It just doesn't seem to move us to actually do anything worthwhile to fix the situation.

Maybe we're just waiting for exactly the right idea, that we can all agree on.....or somebody to begin acting on an idea that will truly make a difference, and then we can all  join in.  ? ? ? ? ?

 

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Re: This is How We Take Action

Jeff,

Like others, I like the idea in principle, but don't believe it is practical. First, if we assume that most of the citizens of this country are content to live, as they currently are, as indentured servants, I think it is unlikely that many will follow this suggestion. Critical mass is key, and achieving that mass seems a pipe dream, at least for now. Second, the corporations and bankers are only part of the problem. The bigger problem, as I see it, is the government itself. Taxation, regulations, imperial ambitions; those are the things that are really dragging this country down. The recommendation regarding limiting tax withholdings is good, as far as it goes, but come every April, we still end up supplying the same tax base (and, the rest of government spending is met by borrowing and printing).

The fundamentals of our government are good, as outlined in our Constitution. The problem is that our government has been acting in ways that are decidedly unconstitutional for far too long. We do need a Second Revolution, and I hope that it will not be a violent one. We do need our Jefferson's, (John) Adams' and Madison's. And, our Paine's and (Samuel) Adams' to enlighten and enrage our society. Ron Paul is a very good start, but he is one man who is vastly outnumbered in our current system. I would encourage the vigorous support of political candidates from such organizations as Paul's "Campaign for Liberty" or the Libertarian Party. If we cannot change our government from within, I suspect it will inevitably implode, and that is when we can (hopefully) pick up the pieces and start again; this time, learning from the mistakes of the past, and holding true to the limitations imposed on our government by our Constitution.

Christopher

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ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Re: This is How We Take Action
Ben A wrote:

 WOW !  This thread is a perfect microcosm of why nothing positive is happening in our country today - nobody can agree on anything.  So, instead of real change for the better, we all get our kicks by sharing our ideas (as eloquently as we can BTW) and then waiting to see if others are impressed.  (See, I'm doing it too.)

That's a fair point!

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JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2492
Re: This is How We Take Action
SamLinder wrote:

Doesn't sound like an environment I would want to be a part of. Hello Mad Max?

But civil war does?

That being said, I basically agree with you. The fact is, my family and I have been basically living this non-consumerism lifestyle (out of a necessity to save) for a few months now and frankly, it sucks. The transition has been fraught with arguments, stress, ridicule and downright depression. To expect people to make these sacrifices to support an ideal is not very realistic.

My wife and I decided to try this as a means of making this transition on our own terms, instead of being forced to adapt abruptly by circumstances beyond our control. Deferring our present for our future is not something my generation is accustomed to. I hope my marriage survives this self-inflicted reality check.

 

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RNcarl
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: May 13 2008
Posts: 382
Re: This is How We Take Action

well - id say boycott what you can.

any idea needs to get to the tipping point (yes I read the book).

I think the system will implode all by itself. however, it may limp along for some time.

most likely, for 2-5 years depending on the price of oil.

My company, is a high tech medical device company. So far to a point they are betting on things returning back to "normal" it is very difficult for me knowing what I believe to be true as to what is going to happen.

Prepare, Plan and build local community.

FWIW - C.

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SagerXX
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 2219
Re: This is How We Take Action
JAG wrote:

My wife and I decided to try this as a means of making this transition on our own terms, instead of being forced to adapt abruptly by circumstances beyond our control. Deferring our present for our future is not something my generation is accustomed to. I hope my marriage survives this self-inflicted reality check. 

I hear you.  My dear wife is about 2-1/2 steps behind me on the curve.  She's game for some things, but others she utterly cannot hear/bear.  But the truth keeps trickling out, and continually underlines my position.  She adjusts as she goes.  Strength and patience to you JAG. 

Viva -- Sager

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