How the government banker bailout screwed me

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Subprime JD's picture
Subprime JD
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How the government banker bailout screwed me

Heres how the banker bailout scammed me.

I got my law school student loans from Citi and Wachovia. I figured they would go broke and that some type of haircut would be applied to my loan. Then, in the fall of 2008 the big banks blew up. Citi and Wachovia were in trouble and should have gone to 0. Moreover, the rest of the big banks also should and would have blown up and also would end up in ch 7 bankruptcy. But then of course, the golden rule was applied, "he who has the gold makes the rules". The big banks got congress to bail them out and also allowed the federal reserve to print trillions. Also, fake accounting rules were allowed to reign. Thus, the big banks survived.

In addition to the above, the federal government decided to buy my loan from wachovia and citi. Now im paying $1045.86 a month to the Department of Education . I made a deal with citi and wachovia, not with myself (i.e. the DOE which is a federal department which is funded by my taxes). I was betting that the big baks would blow up and thus chose them as my lenders (specifically Citi and wachovia). Were the banks to go ch 7 then we would effectively have a debt jubilee and here is how. With all the major credit providers being destroyed due to their own recklessness there would be less credit in the system and less money, thus deflation. Then, my student loans would be sold at a auction to the highest bidder. With less money and credit in the system the bid would be low, .20 to .40 on the dollar. In theory, i could have bought back my own loan for .30 cents on the dollar and that would be the end of my debt slavery.

I always knew that i was overpaying for lawschool ($36,000 a year) but figured that the system would go to hell. Unfortunately for me the golden rule was applied and i got screwed by Bernanke, Obama, Geithner, and the rest of the wall street mob. You see, .20 X 36,000 is 7200. $7200 a year for lawschool is reasonable and fair value i believe. A bunch of professors spoke and repeated the same things they spurt year after year from a outline. Yet i got stuck with a massive loan because i went to law school at the height of the credit bubble. Deflation is occuring all around us yet i still have to pay par value to the DOE, which paid Wachovia and Citi par for my notes. The federal gov had no authority to buy my loans from the banks which should have failed, yet now im stuck with the bill while wachovia (now wells) and citi got the cash and split. This is fascism at its finest; merger of corporations and government. I made a deal with two lenders, not the fed government. The people on the other end were going to disappear (as corporations they are ficticious entities that exist only as a abstraction of a bunch of numbers). Yet, my government, basically me, bought my own loan and now i have to pay it to myself. In reality, the people in charge of the government (whichis not me but a bunch of criminals that control a racket) bought a loan from private sector loan sharks. Ridiculous.

This is how i got taken in the takeover.

V's picture
V
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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

BMT

I kinda sorta feel for ya. But I believe you got the next best license to steal after a bank charter. You will more than make it up on the back end. Why not become a lawyer for CITI or another Wall Street bank?

V                                                                                                                           

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Subprime JD
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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

I dont believe in the creed of "if you cant beat them join them". Rather, i subscribe to this creed, "be in the world, but not of the world".

Also, regarding my license the job market is a absolute disaster in California. Im competing with attorneys that have 2-3-5-10 yrs experience that are willing to work for much less then before. There isnt much $$ less for attorneys anymore, unless your in the top 10% of the top 10 law schools, which i definitely was not a member of.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Dear BMT

i am VERY confused. I guess I would like to know why you would post this info here? I seem to recall not too long ago you started a thread proclaiming your joy at having passed the bar. Congrats by the way. Now you are complaining about the competition. You tried to beat the house and the house won. You made a career choice. Free choice? Since you are not of the world what is the problem? I work in countries where two thirds to 90% of the people do  not have enough to eat. where water borne disease is a major killer. Where AIDS is present in over 50 % of the population. Where there is no social safety net, forget about national health care they would just like to see a doctor once a year. Those people have problems Last I looked this was still America. You got a license go to work for yourself. Move to a different state, Join the Armed services. Get a government job. Or better yet join the Peace Corp and see how the rest of the world lives IN it. Best of luck the world is your oyster swallow it whole.

V

PS I remember Hari Dass was once asked whether it was spiritually better to be a vegetarian or to eat meat. He said when food is plentiful there are rules about what to eat. When food is scarce you will eat anything

 

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Hi bearmarket,

It stinks that your bet didn't pay off.  I wish you the very best.

 

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Welcome to the debt slave club.  Unfortuantely bankruptcy doesn't discharge school loans or IRS debt. I found out the hard way when the IRS levied me for 1.2 million.  You just have to pay "the man" and go on.

The good news is: you are intelligent, educated, and motivated.  You have a wealth of alternatives to being an ambulance chaser.  My first word of advice is: exit California.Smile

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

"I was betting that the big baks would blow up and thus chose them as my lenders (specifically Citi and wachovia). Were the banks to go ch 7 then we would effectively have a debt jubilee"

Excuse me:

You made a bad bet, that you would get a debt jubillee.

You have nothing to complain about. Do the honorable thing, and stick to the deal, and stop complaining.

People with your attitude truly make me ill, and give me a bad feeling about the future of the country.

Kindly GROW UP and start behaving like a responsible adult

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Why would you think there would be a debt jubilee?  When banks or anyone else go under, judges take ANY remaining assets and auction them off in order to pay off creditors.  Those picking up the assets may get bargains by paying pennies on the dollar, but why would you think your loan would be forgiven?  The asset, your loan, get's bought at a discount.  That means someone pays less for it than the original loan amount, but that has nothing to do with you paying less.  In order for that to be a deal to them, you have to continue paying the loan at par.  If you want a debt jubilee, you have to do what Citi and Wachovia did and go bankrupt.  Maybe then a judge will sell whatever assets you have below par in order to pay off you debts.  You don't have to be in or of the system, but you do need to understand the system.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Sounds to me more like you tried/hoped to scam the banks and it just didn't work out. Your new profession tends towards the scam side of things, so I guess they taught you well, but ethically it is my opinion that you are simply wrong. You contacted a debt and now you need to pay it off.

Welcome to the world.

Jim

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Farmer Brown is exactly correct. 

..being required to hold up your end of a contractual obligation and is a scam ?.......interesting perspective.for an attorney

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

V do you always have to stir the pot? Its really not productive.

BMT. I had the exact same experience in the school of architecture. In fact the banks were adding to the interest on my loans before it was owed. I've made agreements with 3 different lenders to consolidate my loans only to get a notice a few months later that my loan was sold to another lender who in turn bumped the price up.

So to all the posters out the that say "own up to your obligations" I say "If they own up to theirs". Did the bankers own up to their obligations? Do they have morals, ethics? Wake up. Thats not the way the world works.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

I had $120.000 of student loans when I graduated.  Took about 8 yrs to pay off.  However the current non dischargable student loans truely are debt slavery.  They are marketed to the youth who are told get an education to get a good job, but what happens when their promised job is not there?  Debt slavery.

 

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

I am very sorry to tell you:

A college or graduate degree is no longer the virtual-guarantee of a future career that it used to be.

Sadly, we need to face reality, that those days will not come back for some time, and begin to think differently about the value of academic credentials

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

drbubb

I couldn't agree more.

If I had it to do over again I would have put my money into electrician school. Then I'd have a skill that helped people directly and relative job security. I hope the economic changes that are coming increase the intrest and validity of trade schools. There is way too much fluff and nonsense in academia currently. Which is great if you have time and money to burn but if you are like most of us it just gives an academic a job and empties your wallet.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Wow I love all the talk about moral responsibility about paying off my debt. First things first, its only moral when there is a fair playing field. Im talking about all the SPECIAL ASSISTANCE the lenders recieved. What special assistance will i recieve? NONE. If i dont pay or am late a few months my credit gets destroyed. It doesnt matter that jobs are scarce i STILL have to pay the loan to the feds.

I love the way these older bitter folk say how i took a bet and lost. Its 2005 and i get accepted to law school. Im 23 yrs old at the time. I hear the tuition cost and i freaked out. Thankfully my family paid the first 3 semesters of my tuition then business went to hell so i had to borrow the last 3 semesters. The point being that I NEVER WOULD HAVCE GONE TO LAW SCHOOL WERE I TO HAVE KNOWN THAT POPS COULDNT PAY FOR IT. However, i was half way done when the family support stopped. And that point i had no choice but to continue.

I remember looking around at my fellow classmates, as there student loan debt was as high as $180,000. Freaking ridiculous. Thats a mortgage. The really sad part is that in 2000 my school cost 19,000 a year. It doubled in 10 yrs as its now 37,000. In 1990 it cost 12,000. So basically my generation of law school grads are equivalent to people who bought homes at the peak of the market. Except we are alot younger than those who bought homes. And also, since i had a general understanding of the demographic issue, i figured that attorneys would begin to retire, thereby opening the job market even more. Unfortunately, i failed to see all the other problems such as SS, household debt numbers, etc.

I dont even have a credit card thats how much i HATE debt, i utterly despise it. It doesnt make me a scam attorney cus i got a crappy bargain. But of course some of you here are so used to taking orders you just say "this is life". If i was born 10 yrs earlier my debt burden would be HALF of what it is today! But im being a whiner. Open your eyes haters.

And with regards to being a "scam" lawyer, ive done so much pro bono work and continue to do it and will always do it. This week i filed a child support petition on a debt beat dad, where many LAWYERS today would bring out the retainer i said "dont worry about it, im here to help you get the support you need". Being rich isnt my foremost goal. Nonetheless, i hate paying this money to the crooks.

V's picture
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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Sorry Johnny

Not biting

V

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

 

In the event my 80k loan was sold off for .30 on the dollar the new owner would own the note for 24k. 80k X .30=24K. I owe 120k on the existing note. So, if some one would have bought my note for 24k and still demanded the 120k, the interest rate would be 50%.

Loan Balance: $24,000.00
Adjusted Loan Balance: $24,000.00
Loan Interest Rate: 50.00%
Loan Fees: 0.00%
Loan Term: 10 years
Minimum Payment: $50.00
Monthly Loan Payment: $1,007.51
Number of Payments: 121
Cumulative Payments: $120,910.33
Total Interest Paid: $96,910.33

 

A 50% interest rate is USURIOUS and would get destroyed in a courtroom.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

All of that is irrelevant. If someone lends you money and thern sells the paper at a loss, that's their problem. The loan is for the amount and the terms under which you borrowed the money and is enforceable by law. It makes no difference whether the new owner of that paper is making 50% or 500%.

Obviously the paper was sold at a loss because the seller had a very low opinion of the loan ever being repaid, and the buyer demanded a discount for the same reason. You as the borrower wouldn't even be aware of the paper being sold. If judges forgave debt in the manner you are suggesting, the economy would grind to a hault. There needs to be liquidity in the markets so that bad assets (in this case your loan) can be sold at a discount to competent buyers. Otherwise, you can kiss whatever is left of the economy good bye.

This happens all the time and is happening right now. TSW, one of the biggest (and certainly the most succesful) mortgage-debt buyers, buys mortgages for 40-60% of their value all the time. The sellers benefit by obtaining much needed cash, and assuming TSW does their homework and does not overpay, their investors make a good return too. The mortgage holders, by the way, continue paying under the same terms and conditions as before, and in most cases do not even know someone else owns the paper. Even if they did, no judge would throw the loan out for "usury" as you suggest. Under your system, TSW would not exist, and the current sellers of those mortgages wouldn't just be in bad shape, they'd be history.

I feel your pain, but not your logic. I hate the financial system as it is rigged right now, but the underlying principles behind the situation you find yourself in would be the same even in a non-oligarchical system.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

The attitude of bearmarkettrader "Heres how the banker bailout screwed me" just irritates me.  You were the one attempting to scam the system.  You took advantege of the system hoping to get a free or cut rate education.  Well it did not work.   You screwed yourself.  Too bad!!  You got benefit from your loans and should pay them.  You had prior knowledge of the system and sacrificed your honesty and ethics hoping not to pay legitimate loans.  Would you go out and buy a house or car that you knew you could not afford and try to work the system to not pay for it?  People like you are part of the problem, not part in the solution. That is the type of ethics too often practiced by big business, insurance, politicians and others.  That type of attitude has to STOP!!  And it needs to stop everywhere!  It is quite interesting that you were going to law school. Well, I guess that is one stereotype that is true...at least in your case.  For your information, the feds took over student loans because banks were dropping out of the student loan business and because of their shoddy business practices had great difficulty in honoring the loans that they had commited to.  The feds took over to prevent the student loan system from total collapse.  They did not take the system over to control or nationalize it.  By the way, loans are frequently sold to other financial entities and the borrower still owes the whole amount. 

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

"Wow I love all the talk about moral responsibility about paying off my debt. First things first, its only moral when there is a fair playing field. Im talking about all the SPECIAL ASSISTANCE the lenders recieved. What special assistance will i recieve? NONE"

Well all I can say is this:

It is a pleasure not knowing you in day-to-day life.

I choose my friends carefully, and people with that sort of attitude are not amongst them.

I paid for my own education, every penny of it, and it took many years to pay it off.  I wanted to go to law school, and decided to go out in the world and get some real experience, and also build a bit of savings before I did so.  I'm glad I made that choice.  The real life experience convinced me that a law degree was not the right thing for me.

Another reason was this:

I spoke to my cousin.  He was older that I.  And a terribly brilliant guy, who went to Harvard Law school and graduated near the top of the class.  He went on to become one of the senior lawyers of the the (then) largest law firm in the US, starting several of their overseas offices.  He made tons of money, and later ran for Congress- losing narrowly.  And we hoping he will run again.  He is a man-of-integrity (a "Mr.Clean" type) who would make a good legislator.  Anyway, when I was still thinking about going to law school, he told me that he did not like being a lawyer.  The nature of the work was boring, and he did not feel that most of the work was fulfilling.  I expect he found many of his clients "too greedy."

It is your life, and I cannot tell you how to live it.  But someday you will be older, and looking back at your life, considering what you have achieved.  At that point, you will feel better about what you have done and achieved, if you can say that you helped many people, and that you acted with integrity.  If you are lucky, you will be surrounded by decent friends of good character.

I sincerely wish you good luck in finding a fulfilling path, and I hope you will set a good example for friends and family.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

If the student loan market blew up then maybe tuitions would fall to real market prices. Its BECAUSE of federal subsidies to college tuition that the prices have exploded. But of course im wasting my time because no one reads what i write anyway. The end.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me
bearmarkettrader wrote:

If the student loan market blew up then maybe tuitions would fall to real market prices. Its BECAUSE of federal subsidies to college tuition that the prices have exploded. But of course im wasting my time because no one reads what i write anyway. The end.

If you believed that, then it seems like "buying" the legal education was a rather foolish move.

A true capitalist PAYS his money, and TAKES A RISK (he is right),

Or HE WAITS.

You made a mistake (maybe even knowing), and now want to be bailed out.

Good luck.

.. A true capitalist would think you are worse than a naive sucker,

You are "a whining bailout seeker", the capitalist might say.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me
bearmarkettrader wrote:

If the student loan market blew up then maybe tuitions would fall to real market prices. Its BECAUSE of federal subsidies to college tuition that the prices have exploded. But of course im wasting my time because no one reads what i write anyway. The end.

That may be  true but I think you are missing the point.  You knowingly entered into a contract hoping that you would not be required to fully meet your obligations.  When it turned out that you had to fully meet your obligations, you complained that YOU were being screwed.  To make it worse, the obligation that you were hoping to get a walk on was the costs of your LAW DEGREE.

I don't think the problem is that no one is reading what you are writing.  It is that we can't believe what you are saying.

Bear, I have read many of your posts in the past and this threads whole line of thought just seem very out of place for both you and this site in general.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me
goes211 wrote:
bearmarkettrader wrote:

If the student loan market blew up then maybe tuitions would fall to real market prices. Its BECAUSE of federal subsidies to college tuition that the prices have exploded. But of course im wasting my time because no one reads what i write anyway. The end.

That may be  true but I think you are missing the point.  You knowingly entered into a contract hoping that you would not be required to fully meet your obligations.  When it turned out that you had to fully meet your obligations, you complained that YOU were being screwed.  To make it worse, the obligation that you were hoping to get a walk on was the costs of your LAW DEGREE.

I don't think the problem is that no one is reading what you are writing.  It is that we can't believe what you are saying.

Bear, I have read many of your posts in the past and this threads whole line of thought just seem very out of place for both you and this site in general.

My sentiments exactly. 

By following your logic, BMT, since the markets are rigged, you should short them using margin.  If and when you lose your shirt, you should then hope your broker goes broke so you don't have to pay him, and feel (according to you) rightfully indignant about doing so. 

I suggest you get on the phone with that University where you got your law degree and ask for a refund, as they apparently forgot to teach you about basic property law and ethics.  That's about the only way you're going to get any kind of reduction on that loan amount.

 

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

BMT sorry but you sound like a spoiled brat that did not get his way. Life does not aways go our way. You will learn years down the road that this will not change. I know you are young and have a bit of growing up to do.

I love the way these older bitter folk say how i took a bet and lost. Its 2005 and i get accepted to law school.

We older folk have already been there.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Cant the bear just whine a bit??? The reason for my whining is that i had to fork over a fat $2650 last month and $1045 a month for 120 months. Ill get used to it in a few months Cool

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

BMT many of the old people that saved their money all their life have more to whine about than you. Many saved & worked all their lives & look what has a hold of them now. Life will never be easy for any of us....except those that have the legal power to continue to legally steal.

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

BMT -- a little whining is allowed now and then - sounds like you are coming around.  

Good luck - a few years of hard work and it will be behind you, with a good lesson learned

 

Jim

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

Yes BMT you can bearly whine. Good news for you! From what the big O said last night, he has good news for you. They want to make it so you do not have to pay more than 10% of your loan percent to income and if you go into public service they will be excused after 10 years. Keep watching because they are there for you. I suggest that perhaps you could run for office or perhaps work for a district attorney's office. Before you know it your time will be up and your loans will be forgiven. Or you could stay possitive and start using that degree to come up with the money to pay back the loans. You you work it just right you can probably have it paid back in about 5 years.

Just a little history lesson from me to you. Unlike you I did not start as early as you on the education, I was 30 years old before I went back to school. I was a single mom 1 child and really no future. I have always been a good employee but without an education there are not many opportunities. By chance this aquintance suggested I go to a technical school that he was starting at. That was in 90. I was struggling to keep up my mortgage payments after the divorce and figured what the heck I will give it a try. After attending school for some time I continued to have problem make my mortgage. Funny after getting caught up again one day I was talking to a lady at the mortgage company and she told me that if I was 3 months behind I could ask for help from HUD. I did just that. A nice 3 months I might add. Well they came back and told me no! I went to their offices personally and requested to speak with someone. After a discussion with them they decided to take a chance on me as I was in school after all. They reduced my payments to something that I could realistically afford and I continued on my journey. When I finished school in electronic engineering I had some pretty good size loans and had to pay back HUD. But in my mind that was okay. I owed it and I would pay it back and have. It is not easy to keep the mind positive but it can be done. I had to start out at low wages to get the experience and then you just keep towinf the line untill you get out. I believe you will. Life is tough, but we are lucky to live in such a wonderful country. i do belive it is time we take it back! In 2005 I sold my house for a profit and currently pay rent today. You see I was stuck in the house the HUD built for 17 years before I could sell it and make enough to move. I had learned my lessons on the other house. It was purchased in 87 during the last housing crisis. Learn form your mistakes they happen for a reason. By the way I am so much happier now!

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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

I'm in a similar situation with my student loans.  In going back to school, my only real options were 1) continue to work full-time and go to school part-time and take an extra 2-3 years to get my degree, 2) Join the military and have them pay for my education (or most of it) but also likely to add a few extra years to get my degree, or 3) borrow whatever isn't covered by grants (which was a lot considering it was out-of-state tuition) and stay in crappy apartments living as cheaply as possible.  Long story short I chose 3, and received my degree along with a buttload of student loan debt.  I'd never taken on lots of debt before, but I felt that it was the only way I could put my full efforts into school and finish in a reasonable timeframe.  Four years later I've busted butt to pay down more than half of it (~$40K) and only have the consolidated federal loans left, but that's still a big chunk of change. 

Was it worth it?  In retrospect I think it still was, but it does still frost me that the educational system is so messed up that most working-class students have so few options for a decent college education that taking on massive debt is often seen as the least crappy alternative.  THAT is the true screw-job IMO.  My only consolation is that my consolidated loans are fixed at around 1.6%, and if we see bad inflation or a currency crisis my lender will badly take it in the shorts. 

- Nickbert

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isjrb029
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Re: How the government banker bailout screwed me

It is really interesting if you think about. Because pretty much anybody has to take on debt to be able to better the income chances and I do mean chance. As there are no guaranteees when completed. My whole thing is that you cannot make distinctions the some get their debt forgiven and others do not.

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