Homoaners

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yobob1
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Homoaners

American homes are expected to be worth $1.7 trillion less in 2010 than they were worth last year, according to a report released Thursday by real estate website Zillow.

This year's drop in home values is 63% bigger than the $1 trillion dip in 2009, and brings the total value lost since the housing market's peak in 2006 to a whopping $9 trillion.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/12/09/real_estate/home_value/index.htm?section...

While Ben fiddles, Rome burns. When you expand your horizon to a global basis it is likely that we've seen well over $20 trillion in loss of value in residential alone.  Add in commercial and the numbers just keeping getting bigger and bigger.  That really has to help the value of all of those mortgage portfolios.  The collateral value shrinks, but the debt remains - just part of the debt deflation picture.

 

The effect of plunging values is going to put a world of hurt on cities and counties which rely heavily on property taxes to feed their bloated staffs. Rising mortgage rates are only going to drive home prices down further as will continued high unemployment which is quite likely to go higher as govt workers around the globe get the axe. Global demographics are also going to make a serious impact on values as time goes on.  Demographics are beginning to bite in China by the way.

However, real estate prices are a multiple of 22 times disposable income in Beijing and 18 times disposable income in Shenzen, compared to 8 in Tokyo. The U.S. bubble peaked at 6.4 and has since dropped to 4.7.

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2010/12/07/rbs-issues-warning-that-ch...

Ignoring the insanity elsewhere, at 4.7 times income US prices are still about 40% above the normal 3:1 ratio (typical loan ratio of 32% of income and that must include taxes, insurance and with some lenders, utility expenses).  But then these are not normal times and it won't shock me in the least to see prices fall much closer to 2:1 before the fat lady belts out a tune.

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Re: Homoaners

LoL at "Homoaners"

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Re: Homoaners
yobob1 wrote:

The effect of plunging values is going to put a world of hurt on cities and counties which rely heavily on property taxes to feed their bloated staffs. 

However, real estate prices are a multiple of 22 times disposable income in Beijing and 18 times disposable income in Shenzen, compared to 8 in Tokyo. The U.S. bubble peaked at 6.4 and has since dropped to 4.7.

http://www.china-briefing.com/news/2010/12/07/rbs-issues-warning-that-ch...

Here is a sad example from a city I'm familiar with, Paterson N.J. Once known as 'Silk City' for its textile mills (long since converted to condos), the city is now home to a large hispanic immigrant population. An 'urban enterprise zone' special sales tax of 3.5% (versus the statewide 7.0% sales tax) brought Home Depot and Lowe's to Paterson with retail jobs. But there's little industrial employment. Poverty rates and food-stamp usage are already high. Now this:

PATERSON — The City Council on Tuesday encountered a mix of public rage and sadness at its first hearing on a $251 million spending package, which relies almost entirely on taxpayers to close an unprecedented deficit.

The 2011 budget introduced in September calls for a nearly $2,400 tax increase on a house assessed at $300,000, the city average. With the announcement of a state aid grant of $22.3 million, the projected tax increase dropped to $1,649 — still a 46-percent jump from last year’s municipal levy and likely the largest in city history.

Mayor Thomas Rooney asked how such an increase was legal given the state-imposed 4-percent property-tax cap. “That’s a good question,” said Russell Forenza, the city’s budget director. He added that city officials will be sitting down with officials in Trenton after the budget is completed to examine any exceptions to the law.

Before Tuesday, however, there had been no discussions between the mayor and council on how to pull the city out of the red, said one frustrated councilman.

The state in November granted Paterson $22.3 million in transitional aid, less than a third of the city’s request for $70 million. A state government spokeswoman said last month that one reason the city received so much less than it asked for was the city’s unwillingness to include layoffs in its aid application. Morris said city officials feared that putting such reductions in the paperwork might “show the state that we did not need as much money as we’re requesting.”

Since mid-2008, Paterson has refunded $6.5 million in overpaid taxes — all stemming from a 2006 revaluation that almost immediately spawned unfair property assessments when the real estate market collapsed.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/120710_Public_hearing_on_Patersons_251M_proposed_budget_tonight.html

Nice timing, huh? Paterson revalued right at the peak of the Bubble. Who would have thought that prices would fall to the extent that homoaners could easily challenge their assessments with current comps and win? Nightmare for the 'crats!

There's something terribly cavalier about governments managing their affairs irresponsibly, and then seeking to whack taxpayers with monstrous bills in tough times. Households living hand-to-mouth can't just cough up an extra $1,649 in property tax. This is so abusive, so extreme, that it borders on a human rights violation. Because those who don't pay will actually be evicted from 'their' homes.

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Re: Homoaners

Property taxes are out of control in NJ.  It is really crazy.  We had a vote back mid-year on a 15 million dollar increase in the school budgets here.  it was voted down.  Then, a few months later we were with a 100 dollar a month property tax increase anyway.  No vote.  I pay 8 thousand dollars a year in property taxes a year and I live in a rural area and receive nothing in return but a road in front of my house.  I am on a well.  I have a septic tank.  I pay to have my garbage picked up.  There is no police department.  There is nothing one would usually attribute to costs associated with living in an area but the road and the schools - of which there are very few as very few.

 

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Re: Homoaners

Then, a few months later we were with a 100 dollar a month property tax increase anyway.

I would be fuming

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Re: Homoaners
dshields wrote:

Property taxes are out of control in NJ.  It is really crazy.  We had a vote back mid-year on a 15 million dollar increase in the school budgets here.  it was voted down.  Then, a few months later we were with a 100 dollar a month property tax increase anyway.  No vote.  I pay 8 thousand dollars a year in property taxes a year and I live in a rural area and receive nothing in return but a road in front of my house.  I am on a well.  I have a septic tank.  I pay to have my garbage picked up.  There is no police department.  There is nothing one would usually attribute to costs associated with living in an area but the road and the schools - of which there are very few as very few.

WOW.........!  And you complain about the cost of real estate in Australia?  We only pay $1000 a year for our semi rural block with electricity and garbage pick up but no water and no sewerage (which is just fine by me....)

Mike

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Re: Homoaners
Damnthematrix wrote:
dshields wrote:

Property taxes are out of control in NJ.  It is really crazy.  We had a vote back mid-year on a 15 million dollar increase in the school budgets here.  it was voted down.  Then, a few months later we were with a 100 dollar a month property tax increase anyway.  No vote.  I pay 8 thousand dollars a year in property taxes a year and I live in a rural area and receive nothing in return but a road in front of my house.  I am on a well.  I have a septic tank.  I pay to have my garbage picked up.  There is no police department.  There is nothing one would usually attribute to costs associated with living in an area but the road and the schools - of which there are very few as very few.

WOW.........!  And you complain about the cost of real estate in Australia?  We only pay $1000 a year for our semi rural block with electricity and garbage pick up but no water and no sewerage (which is just fine by me....)

Mike

Mike,

Yeah, but you don't have the benefits of New Jersey's corruption.  You can't put a price on enriching politicians and their cronies at the taxpayer's expense ... especially if you're one of those politicians or cronies.

dshields,

Move out of NJ for your financial, physical, and mental health.  It'd be the best thing you've ever done for yourself (been there, done that).  Between the crowding, pollution, traffic, crime, motor vehicle inspections that resemble purgatory, high labor and service costs, outrageous taxes, etc., the place is a hellhole.

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Re: Homoaners

I second DTM, dshields - get out of there if it is feasible. I left Long Island NY because of nonsense like those hellish taxes - the average home on Long Island paid $500 to $600 in homeowner taxes a MONTH. Here in SC we pay $500 a YEAR. The cost of living is 55% of what it was up there, too.

But hey, if you're stuck in NJ look onthe bright side. If things completely collapse they will not be charging property taxes any more.

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Re: Homoaners

Property taxes in NJ are absolutely insane.  I was paying 10K a year in NJ in 2003 for a ~2200sf house that literally backed up to a train track.  Moved away and have not looked back.

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Re: Homoaners

Ok, this one makes my blood boil.  I own my home and land.  No debt at all.  But if I don't pay my outrageous property taxes, I'm evicted.  In essence, I am renting everything from the county.  How the hell did this happen in the US?  Did no one read the constitution?  The whole idea of ownership is nothing but an hallucination.  At least I know where THEY all live and so do my neighbors.

I'm not opposed to paying my fair share for roads/schools etc but not with the threat of loosing my home/land.  Old people like myself my be the most dangerous.  Armed to the teeth with nothing to loose.

this may not end well

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Re: Homoaners

Eggzactly!  You will never "own" any property.  If you don't pay the taxes, no matter how high or low, the government will swoop in after 2 or 3 years and sell your property for the amount of the back taxes.  Depending on the particular local laws that may convey title immediately or there may be a period of time following the sale that you can still salvage the property.

In a nearby county where a lot of my family lives, they reassessed all property and in most cases residential property values dropped 25-30% and yet amazingly the amount of taxes owed went up.  That's a little tough to figure as by law they can only increase the levy by 3% per year.  Meanwhile commercial property values went up and they weren't undervalued by any measure.   Most of those should have dropped also.

Government at every level has developed an "us" against "them" mentality.  All of these dipsh*ts need to get a refresher course in exactly who they work for.  Its way past time to slash local and state governemtn spending asn quit "saving" jobs that in many cases don't need to exist.

If we cut government employment by 25% it would only be a good start.  Prior to the creation of the Fed and even up to the beginning of the depression the cost of all government at every level was little more than 10% of GDP.  That means the 90% of GDP was actual economic activity.  Now I'd bet that ratio is running close to 40% govt / 60 % "real" economy. 

What to do with all of those left over govt employees?  Let them eat cake.

 

Roundhouse wrote:

Ok, this one makes my blood boil.  I own my home and land.  No debt at all.  But if I don't pay my outrageous property taxes, I'm evicted.  In essence, I am renting everything from the county.  How the hell did this happen in the US?  Did no one read the constitution?  The whole idea of ownership is nothing but an hallucination.  At least I know where THEY all live and so do my neighbors.

I'm not opposed to paying my fair share for roads/schools etc but not with the threat of loosing my home/land.  Old people like myself my be the most dangerous.  Armed to the teeth with nothing to loose.

this may not end well

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Re: Homoaners

Move to Texas!  We need more good people here.  Our state is maintaining some control over taxation and as a result we are doing pretty well.

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Re: Homoaners
goes211 wrote:

Property taxes in NJ are absolutely insane.  I was paying 10K a year in NJ in 2003 for a ~2200sf house that literally backed up to a train track.  Moved away and have not looked back.

Same goes for the Boston suburban area.  We're downsizing to a house about 1300sf and the taxes will still be over $5K.  It's better than the almost $10K we are paying now for 2600sf, but it's still way more than I want to pay.  Services don't include trash and we have ceptic that we have to pay to pump.  this new house will be a stepping stone to something more sustainable once our youngest finishes high school.  The new (old) house, about 2 miles from the current house, will save us lots on taxes, mortgage, etc. and hopefully will sell easier down the road, as people look for smaller more affordable housing.  That's the plan, but who knows what the future holds for any of us.

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Re: Homoaners

If I had to move at this point, Texas would be at the top of my list but  the Carolina's are pretty nice and I think I prefer this weather.

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Re: Homoaners
ao wrote:

Move out of NJ for your financial, physical, and mental health.  It'd be the best thing you've ever done for yourself (been there, done that).  Between the crowding, pollution, traffic, crime, motor vehicle inspections that resemble purgatory, high labor and service costs, outrageous taxes, etc., the place is a hellhole.

One thing you mention has changed for the better, only because the state is broke. As of Aug. 1, 2010, motor vehicle inspection in NJ is now 'emissions only' -- the mechanical condition of the vehicle is no longer checked. Police can still stop you for a burnt-out taillight, but it won't prevent you from getting an inspection sticker.

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Re: Homoaners

I lived in New Mexico for 14 years many years ago.  It was great.  The problem was no jobs but as long as you stayed out of the ski areas (Santa Fe, Taos, etc.) the cost of living was reasonable.  It is expensive in NJ.  Our new Governor (Christie) is trying to get costs under control but it is difficult.  My ex-wife was from Texas so I spend some time there also.  Texas is good - I liked Texas.

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Re: Homoaners

I'm getting a vision of everyone having a wagon (like in the old west) that holds all of their stuff. They move to the state with the lowest taxes and least government meddling (which by coincidence happen to be one in the same). Then the government starts assessing its taxes and growing. Then everyone hooks up their wagon and moves on. Why try to settle in when they'll get you like a sitting duck.

SS

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Re: Homoaners
SingleSpeak wrote:

I'm getting a vision of everyone having a wagon (like in the old west) that holds all of their stuff. They move to the state with the lowest taxes and least government meddling (which by coincidence happen to be one in the same). Then the government starts assessing its taxes and growing. Then everyone hooks up their wagon and moves on. Why try to settle in when they'll get you like a sitting duck.

SS

My wagon had fake wood paneling on the side, and it's ready to roll...

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Re: Homoaners

meredith whitney says texas and virginia

 

 

robie

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Re: Homoaners

My mother has a place in Ashe County NC (the most northwest county in the state) and it is very nice there.  Super cheap to live there.  Very low crime rate.  Everybody you meet is nice -- nobody stands around glaring at you on corners like they do in many places around NJ.  I have not been there in six months or so but you can be driving by some mom and pop resturant and see on the sign "Breakfast $1.99" and it is true.  As long as you stay out of the "rich areas", real estate is cheap, super cheap by NJ standards.  Taxes are peanuts.  It is a really nice place.  But, there is not much work there and "rich people" are moving in from out of state.  You see a lot of auto tags from NY, NY, and FL.  This influx of rich people is a problem for the local people but it is bringing money in to the area.  Great place to retire if you don't mind the winters.  It is mostly high elevation so even though you are pretty far south the winters are sort of tough.  A lot of people heat with wood.  You see huge piles of fire wood behind people's houses.  A lot of good  food is available for dirty cheap.  We we go down there to visit my mother and we are always amazed at how cheap it is there.  If you have a way to generate money or bring the money with you, it is a great place to live.

I am always surprised when I travel through NJ cities like Camden, Trenton (the capital), and Newark.  These are truely terrible places to live.  They are hell holes of poverty, crime, and violence when compared to Ashe County NC.  We did this.  We made Camden, Trenton, Newark, and many other places in America the hell holes they are through decades of massive transfer payment programs at the Federal and State level.  Camden has an interesting history.  It used to be a good place.  Cambell's soup and a number of other major corporations were either based there or had large facilities there.  They left and the city failed.  They left for a reason(s).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camden,_New_Jersey

The state of NJ has been  paying many millions of dollars to subsidize Camden for years.  One of the things I find amazing is it costs the state 17,000 per student there.  In Newark it is about 20,000 per year per student.  How is this possible ?  It is badly broken.  This is many times what it costs to educate kids in other states.  We have this thing call Abbott Districts.  These are funded to outrageous levels by stealing the money from  the people of the rest of the state.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott_District

http://www.newfoundations.com/ETHICPROP/Badessa718F04.html

The Abbott funding for NJ schools has resulted in the highest property taxes in the nation and is a total complete failure.  This once again proves that stealing money from hard working people and transferring it to others does not work.  It never works.  The same thing happened in Kansas City and was also a total failure.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

So, when looking at places to live be sure to stay away from cities, especially cities with high percentages of so called minority populations which are controlled by "liberals".  This is a sure fire recipe for financial disaster, high taxes, crime, and violence.

We are rotting from the inside out.  We are our own worst enemy. 

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports...

 

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Re: Homoaners

Is there an alternative in place somewhere that does not involve selling someone's home out from under them for not paying their taxes for several years?

If not, what better course of action could be taken to insure .gov gets the money they need?

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Re: Homoaners

My Dad used to say it didn't pay to rent a place, but it makes me want to scream when I think about being evicted for not paying taxes. Who gave them the right? I have no children in school, no trash pick-up or city sewage - absolutely nothing!!

And if it isn't taxation, the EPA wants to come onto privately owned property and  tell us what we can and can't do..... It is time for a revolution.

Texas is great, I miss home. If I could convince my future husband to leave Washington......

 

Rita

 

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Re: Homoaners
txgirl69 wrote:

My Dad used to say it didn't pay to rent a place, but it makes me want to scream when I think about being evicted for not paying taxes. Who gave them the right? I have no children in school, no trash pick-up or city sewage - absolutely nothing!!

And if it isn't taxation, the EPA wants to come onto privately owned property and  tell us what we can and can't do..... It is time for a revolution.

Texas is great, I miss home. If I could convince my future husband to leave Washington......

 

Rita

 

Texas seems to have a good grip on taxes.  Here in New Jersey we have the highest taxes in the entire nation.  Texas sounds good.  A lot of good republicans there.  If you look at the low tax states they are mainly republican dominated.  I know that will make some people on here unhappy but it is the truth never-the-less.

 

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Re: Homoaners
dshields wrote:

Texas seems to have a good grip on taxes.  Here in New Jersey we have the highest taxes in the entire nation.  Texas sounds good.  A lot of good republicans there.  If you look at the low tax states they are mainly republican dominated.  I know that will make some people on here unhappy but it is the truth never-the-less.

ds -

You've been here for over a year and despite all the information you still think that the Republican Party is any better than the Democrats?  In the end game there is no difference to the Average Joe and Joanne on Main Street if the Republicans funnel money to the supporting special interest groups that don't need it or if the Democrats funnel money to entitlement programs we don't need.  They both suck.

Unbelievable.........

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Re: Homoaners
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

They both suck.

Ain't it the truth!

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Re: Homoaners

Yea, I hear you.  I have been around for a while but I am trying to have some hope.  Hope is a good thing.  Yes, the Bush people were not what I had hoped they woud be.  I received surprises all over the place there.  But I have to keep some kind of hope going or there is nothing but doom.  I believe there is a chance we are not doomed yet.  However, I am forced to admit when I heard on the news yesterday that the repubs initial promise was 100 billion in fed gov cuts had morphed into 60 billion in cuts in one day I felt the doom feeling.

 

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