Hawaii

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elsur's picture
elsur
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Hawaii

We have family that lives in Hawaii on the Big Island, in a nice rural, farming area.  They are originally from California.   I am wondering if anyone has any thoughts as whether that part of the world would be a good place, or not, to be in these coming years.

Thank you for any feedback!

Elsur

bluestone's picture
bluestone
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Re: Hawaii

Elsur.  I have some friends that live on the Big Island of Hawaii and I was considering the possibility of moving there.  I checked the population density of the Big Island and discovered that it was less than that of the state of Vermont (which is a pretty rural state).  I live in NY state about thirty minutes from Vermont.  The only thing Im not sure about the Big Island is what percentage of it is volcanic rock (meaning non-arable land).  

There certainly is an allure to the Big Island.  Good weather, plenty of fishing available, plenty of rain water (although there are arid portions of the island), and low population density.  Will there be a mass migration of people from the smaller, more densely populated islands to to Big Island?  Will Hawaii eventually become a procterorate of China or Japan when the US falters? who knows?  When peak oil hits hard, will Hawaii be more drastically cut off from goods and services?

Lots of variables but overall doesn't seem like a bad option to me especially if you already have some established roots there.  If you live in Southern California, I personally would definitely opt for the Big Island.

Brian

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ao
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Re: Hawaii

I always thought that if I had to live off the land in the simplest way possible with the least technology, the Waipio Valley on the Big Island would be the easiest place to survive.  The ocean is right there for seafood, the freshwater streams have fish, there are feral pigs and goats, there are an abundance of fruit trees, crops grow easily, etc.  Of course, you would have to think about the possibility of a tsunami in that narrow valley.;-)  I liked the Big Island but I didn't like the sulfur smell from the volcano that can permeate much of the island.  One of the biggest cattle ranches in the world is there as well so it's not likely be a place you'd starve.  The only problem is, I would expect imported goods to become increasingly more expensive there.

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Tall
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Re: Hawaii

Dig a little deeper about logistics before you leap. Last time I lived there, I could not keep a productive vegetable garden because the fruit flies would ruin the fruit like tomatoes, peppers, eggplant, etc.  Mongoose ate my chickens and were very good at getting into hen houses. Greens that like cool weather do poorly there.

It truly IS island living. For example, the local store would run out of fresh foods when there was a disruption in supply boats such as due to a storm at sea.  You have to be prepared to be self sufficient with the local resources and adapt your diet and lifestyle to what does well there.

Oh, did I mention food and fuel are really expensive?

Temperate North American lifestyles do not necessarily transplant intact.

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SteveW
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Re: Hawaii

There has been a drought on Hawaii (big island) this year, which I imagine related to the Northern plains where beef cattle are raised and the Eastern coast which is known for its coffee. Both products are suffering. The West coast, I presume, will still have received plenty of rain.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=9836750

I see no reason why the Hawaiian Islands should not be self sufficient for food, although I understand that a lot of food is imported while cash crops account for substantial agricultural exports of coffee, macademia nuts, sugar, fresh pineapple and flowers.

If I had family in Hawaii and was able to find work there I'd not hesitate. The climate is practically ideal year round (no heating or A/C needed) and the growing season is year long. I know you can get 3 corn crops a year as corn breeders have used Hawaii for genetic research.

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JAG
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Exponential Stink-Eye?

Depending where you settle: an economic crisis could morph the local 'stink-eye' into something much more serious for a houle, especially from this guy:

elsur's picture
elsur
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Re: Hawaii

Thank you for all the comments - I really appreciate the sense of community here at CM!

 

Sometimes I have questions or concerns about Hawaii being vulnerable to other nations seeing the place as a potenial strategic holding as Bluestone referred to, the haole situation that Jag mentioned (LOL at the video!), or an increase in the significant military presence that is already there, if a large-scale war were to break out. 

 

If anyone has heard any mutterings about any of the above, or anything else, please do let us know!

 

Thanks again!

Elsur

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SailAway
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Re: Hawaii

Which US states does this CM community think will be among the best and worst places to be when the effect of peak oil happens?

I'm in Southern California and with virtually no rain, no fresh water close by, no well and a high population density it can't hardly be worse.

Thanks

Fred

 

 

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SagerXX
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Re: Hawaii
SailAway wrote:

Which US states does this CM community think will be among the best and worst places to be when the effect of peak oil happens?

Hey Fred --

There are many opinions within the CM community about this. I'm in upstate-ish NY (Mid-Hudson valley, 100 mi. N of NYC) and feel pretty good about the locale as far as sustainable living should the modern just-in-time economy fall down go boom.  Plenty of decent-to-good farmland (although you'd have to use greenhouses/hoop houses to help lengthen the growing season), plenty of water/rainfall, a pretty sizeable community of people who Get It (my wife & I took a food fermentation class [kombucha, kimchi, sauerkraut, etc.] this past weekend, organized by a friend), and I think the cold Winters will actually play in our favor since most folks will be discouraged from re-settling here should the SHTF.

Other folks think the Carolinas are post-peak heaven.  YMMV.

Viva -- Sager

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ewilkerson
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Re: Hawaii

It seems to me that Americans are not going to slip away in the dark when oil goes through the roof.  The first Bush said it, "The American way of life is not negotiable."  I fully expect some kind of force to be sure we have the oil we want.  The first resource war was Iraq.

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SteveW
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Re: Hawaii
SailAway wrote:

Which US states does this CM community think will be among the best and worst places to be when the effect of peak oil happens?

Interesting question for which I have a personal opinion only. I'd completely write off Arizona, Nevada and SoCal. The Colorado river system of lakes are well below long term levels with no prospect of improvement. West coast North of the San Franscisco bay area should be OK. I would be concerned about the Northern plains states and the possibility of drought returning them to the dust bowl status of the early 20th century. The East coast is at risk of flooding (especially the South East) and worsening hurricanes. That leaves the North East, Great Lakes states and Pacific NorthWest as my preferred areas. Of those areas I think the New England states are most viable since they were settled in the era of horse and cart and the existing communities could easiy return to that lifestyle.

OTOH the impending collapse of our financial system could make peak oil somewhat moot. I see that as the most critical impending event and depending upon how global finance is restructured will depend upon how/whether we can finance the development of the post petroleum world.

YMMV

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ccpetersmd
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Re: Hawaii

I lived in Oahu for five years, was married on the Big Island, and have returned frequently since leaving. We have considered relocating to Hawaii several times since leaving in 1994, to include a couple of job interviews on the Big Island, the most recent of which was earlier this year. Either the Big Island or Kauai would be reasonable destinations, given their lower population densities. Oahu is a potential powder keg, when the SHTF, and Maui is not much better, in my opinion. Migration from Oahu and Maui to Hawaii and Kauai is a possibility, but I suspect that a majority would relocate to areas in which they have family (Japan, California, etc.).

We have looked particularly at the Waimea (Kamuela) region of the Big Island, which is upcountry, in the northern part of the island. This is where the cattle ranching is located (Parker ranch being the most well known), and the scenery is reminiscent of the midwest continental U.S. albeit with ocean vistas in the background. The western (leeward) coast of Hawaii is the most arid, particularly along the northern (Kohala) coast. There are many beautiful resorts in this area, along the coast, but the inland portions are largely desolate lava fields. The southeastern portion of the island is less arid (although they have been experiencing a drought), and is best known for coffee and macadamia. The eastern (windward) coast has much more rain, and is quite lush. Overall, my choice would be upcountry Waimea, with a nice blending of some rain, cooler temperatures, and two large farmers' markets with phenomenal produce year round.

My only real concern is the possibility of not being able to get back to the mainland to visit family when peak oil hits...

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xraymike79
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Posts: 2040
Re: Hawaii

New Zealand is know as the Fortress of Doom for survivalists. Can anyone list the reasons that make it so, or not so?

XRM

Ken C's picture
Ken C
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Re: Hawaii
SailAway wrote:

Which US states does this CM community think will be among the best and worst places to be when the effect of peak oil happens?

I'm in Southern California and with virtually no rain, no fresh water close by, no well and a high population density it can't hardly be worse.

Thanks

Fred

Hi Fred,

I too am in So Cal and I agree that water has to be the biggest issue here ( aside from population). I guess that if we had MANY fewer people then water may not be an issue. For water not to be an issue we would have to measure population in the hundreds not  millions.

I would like to relocate out of So Cal but I have a problem with family not wanting to leave.

 

 

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
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Posts: 799
Re: Hawaii
ccpetersmd wrote:

The southeastern portion of the island is less arid (although they have been experiencing a drought), and is best known for coffee and macadamia. 

That should have been southwestern portion of the island...

When did we lose the ability to edit our posts? Or, am I just unable to find an edit button?

Edited to say that while I can see an edit button on this particular post, as usual, there was no edit button on my earlier post in this thread, even though my post didn't appear to have been quoted (except later, by me). Weird.

nickbert's picture
nickbert
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Posts: 1208
Re: Hawaii

I noticed that too.... I think perhaps there's now a time limit to go back and edit one's posts.  Perhaps an hour?

- Nickbert

SailAway's picture
SailAway
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Posts: 404
Re: Hawaii

Thanks to all for your replies about the best and worst places in the US in case things go very bad.

We don't have fresh water in So Cal but I'm still working on a plan.... We have a lot of sun so solar electricity is not an issue. We don't need heating and I personally never switch on AC. Water is of course the big problem but I'm close to the ocean so I'm looking at water makers , the kind we use on boats. Fishing for food is definitely an option. I'm also looking at solar ovens to cook. Growing vegetables seems to be close to mission impossible with so little water though...

Actually what concerned me the most is even if I figure out a great plan, I have no idea how I could protect my family if millions of people around us lack water or food... And building a community in town doesn't seem to be very realistic either.

Fred.

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sjmvideo
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Posts: 34
Re: Hawaii

From what I understand (I visited Kauai for 2 months in 2007) the islands are highly dependent on imports. Most of the soil has been depleted by industrial monocropping. That makes it difficult to grow a sufficiency of crops. There are people, at least on Kauai, that are working to restore the soil but 3 years ago it didn't sound like any of the islands could be self sustaining should travel to and from the islands become restricted for what ever reasons.

I'm going back for 3 months this winter in part to reassess suitability of living there in case of collapse. I did not know about Peak Oil or the 3Es when I visited the first time. I just had a general interest in sustainability. But the people who are in tune with the islands understand their fragile predicament. I hurricane in the 1980s left them with out imports from the main land for enough time to cause some pain.

I'll try to remember to share my assessments after some time there.

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