Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the Way?

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Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the Way?

Periodically, here in the forums, We Who Know wonder aloud, "What would the collapse look like?"  Would there be calm resignation, and silent suffering?  Would it present an opportunity for rare displays of selflessness?  Or would we devolve into a mad, chaotic world in which civilization, as we now know it, seems like a distant dream of better days? . . .

This is a question that I often ask myself, and in my darker moments, I fear that I know the answer, only too well.  I've stumbled across some clues, and here's one that contains important information for most Americans, whether one anticipates a societal breakdown, or not:

Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the Way?

Among many other important questions, this video series explores the question of what happens when an individual "goes off his meds" . . . Multiply this individual effect by millions, and we have a recipe for disaster . . . .

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

 And all along I thought it was the High Fructose Corn Syrup  and the fact that they really do not want healthy people .   Silly me .   How does this relate to Economy , you ask ?    number one big business. $$$$

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the Way?

This is a series of 13 short videos . . . The entire series is well worth watching.

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

I have been diagnosed ADHD 4 times in my life. The first time was in 2nd grade after my school teacher said that i was too "hyper" and needed to go to a psychologist. The doc wanted to put me on Ridallin but my mom, being a greek immigrant said NO as she didnt want me taking pills. God bless her for that. The 2nd time was in 5th grade when the school said i was a problem child. Again the shrink said to take ritallin and again mom said no. The third time was my sophomore year of high school. Again the private school said i was too hyper and took me to a shrink, who also tried to put me on adderol and ritallin. He also said i was bi-polar and need prozac to even me out. This time i was old enough to tell him "go f*k yourslef doc im not taking nothing". The last time i was diagnosed ADHD and having "hypomania" was 5 years ago. I went to a shrink to discuss getting some help for the Law School Admission Test. In the end i took it with regular time and did fine but me being wired differently standardized tests are sooo long and boring for me. Anyways, this guy tried to get me on Adderrol and LITHIUM!!

I never took any of that crap and will be a attorney soon, assuming i passed the CAL BAR EXAM which i find out in a week!!! If i were to listen to these drug pushers God only knows how messed in the head i would be.

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Clicker Beware

Cloudfire,

It seems like the majority of your posts lately link to your personal blog. I understand your desire to have an "unregulated" conversation on your own blog, but to use this forum as a link feed for bolstering your personal blog's traffic seems rather unethical in my opinion. 

Many people in this community have no desire to have the conversation that you seek on your personal blog, and to lure them to your blog via a "middle-man" link undermines the integrity of this site. Please be more transparent with your agenda, so people don't waste their time following your links.

 

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Re: Clicker Beware
JAG wrote:

Cloudfire,

It seems like the majority of your posts lately link to your personal blog. I understand your desire to have an "unregulated" conversation on your own blog, but to use this forum as a link feed for bolstering your personal blog's traffic seems rather unethical in my opinion. 

Many people in this community have no desire to have the conversation that you seek on your personal blog, and to lure them to your blog via a "middle-man" link undermines the integrity of this site. Please be more transparent with your agenda, so people don't waste their time following your links.

Hi, Jeff;

This question has been answered before, on other threads, as you well know.  I suppose that this is the runup to an appeal to the moderator to respond to "popular demand", but frankly, the fact that the requests are coming from persons who have been generally hostile to my views is not lost on me.  It is also not lost on me that this series of petty complaints follows an intensive email and telephone campaign by a member with whom you associate to rally discontent against me personally.  

FYI, I started my blog after the suggestion was made by one of CM's moderators.  In the email in which he suggested it, he also indicated that I may link to my blog here on CM.  If that changes now, it would be hard to view it as anything but what it is . . .

But since you are attacking me from a different angle than your cohorts, I'll respond to you, as well.  The sort of material that I post has not changed.  As far as I know, the posts to which I link would pass this site's moderation, just fine.  When I post subjects on my blog that would not pass this site's moderation, I do not link them on CM.  I don't need to boost my site's traffic, as I do not depend on it for income in any way.  I post links here as a courtesy to my friends here who have demonstrated an active interest in the subjects in which I am active.

The only difference between now and before is that my posts take up less bandwidth on CM now . . . and there is one click between you and the material that I post.  Given your negative response or disinterest in my posts, I'd think that would be a relief, unless your desire is to prevent others from hearing what I have to say.  Material that I link here is unchanged from my usual posting habits on CM.  Unless you choose to wander around my blog, you'll only see material that should pass CM's filters. 

Since there is no change in your experience of CM, beyond the occasional extra link to click on, and much less verbiage to scroll through if you choose not to, it seems that your complaint is greatly overblown compared to the fact that when I clicked on a video that you posted, I was exposed to a cartoon of an elephant sodomizing a human being.  Let's get real . . . Who should be outraged here?

 

Addendum:  I'm sorry, Jeff, but I'm getting a bit worn with these petty complaints when I spend a great deal of time ferreting out the truth on issues that I post, as well as a great deal of effort making sure that my posts are clear and accurate.  Before I post them here on CM, I review them to be sure that they will pass CM's guidelines, as I understand them. My motivation for posting here comes out of a desire to share whatever information I have with those who may be able to benefit from it, especially those with whom I have developed a warm rapport.  That is the sum total of my "agenda" as you perjoratively put it.  I am sorry that you have chosen to read more into it.  I have gone to great lengths to organize my blog in a clear way that makes it easy for people to navigate only to areas that are of interest to them.  If you stay on the pages to which I link, you should not see any material that would not pass muster here.  You will never see an ad on my blog, and all information is free to all comers.  Contrary to your accusation that I am reaping some sort of benefit, providing this for others costs me both valuable time and money.

 

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
bearmarkettrader wrote:

I have been diagnosed ADHD 4 times in my life. The first time was in 2nd grade after my school teacher said that i was too "hyper" and needed to go to a psychologist. The doc wanted to put me on Ridallin but my mom, being a greek immigrant said NO as she didnt want me taking pills. God bless her for that. The 2nd time was in 5th grade when the school said i was a problem child. Again the shrink said to take ritallin and again mom said no. The third time was my sophomore year of high school. Again the private school said i was too hyper and took me to a shrink, who also tried to put me on adderol and ritallin. He also said i was bi-polar and need prozac to even me out. This time i was old enough to tell him "go f*k yourslef doc im not taking nothing". The last time i was diagnosed ADHD and having "hypomania" was 5 years ago. I went to a shrink to discuss getting some help for the Law School Admission Test. In the end i took it with regular time and did fine but me being wired differently standardized tests are sooo long and boring for me. Anyways, this guy tried to get me on Adderrol and LITHIUM!!

I never took any of that crap and will be a attorney soon, assuming i passed the CAL BAR EXAM which i find out in a week!!! If i were to listen to these drug pushers God only knows how messed in the head i would be.

Hi, BMT;

I'm so glad to hear a story by someone who has consistently resisted these attempts to medicate you.  There are many, many people who wish they'd had your common sense.  Good luck with the Cal Bar exam . . . Let me know by email, and I'll drink a toast to you . . .

 

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link to blog

I for one do not mind reading Cloudfire's blog as I am on a mission to absorb information. On that quest I find relevant and un-relavent material on all sites I visit so as I become familiar with my daily round of sites - I get the headlines quickly.

Keep up the high standard of work Cloud - you have a good head and I like to check in to see the wheels turning on occation!

EGP

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

Perhaps if you clearly spelled out that you are linking to your blog (for those who can't mouseover) then there wouldn`t be any room for complaints/confusion?

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Re: link to blog
EndGamePlayer wrote:

I for one do not mind reading Cloudfire's blog as I am on a mission to absorb information. On that quest I find relevant and un-relavent material on all sites I visit so as I become familiar with my daily round of sites - I get the headlines quickly.

Keep up the high standard of work Cloud - you have a good head and I like to check in to see the wheels turning on occation!

EGP

Thanks, EGP.  I especially like to hear that you "check in to see the wheels turning", as I do attempt to allow people a glimpse into how I think . . . not just what I think.  I do this for several reasons . . .  First, because people are entitled to know the sort of logic I use in reaching my conclusions.  If I were just another fool spouting her opinion, I wouldn't deserve the bandwidth I suck up, much less the time people take to read my posts.  I don't accept conclusions without basis, and I don't respect others who do. 

Secondly, for those who are just "waking up", I hope that they can take some short-cuts in learning how to think for themselves by having a bit of a window into what critical thinking looks like.  I had few mentors in these skills, and had to learn it all the hard way . . . Anything I can do to ease that transition will only help my readers to reach beyond where I have dared to go . . . That's a good thing, in my mind.

Thirdly, well . . . That's just how I am.  I prefer that my friends truly know me.  That way, I really know who my friends are.  And, for that matter, I know who my enemies are, too, lol . . . which may be the more pertinent information, at times.

Until then,

Cloudfire

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
Ed Archer wrote:

Perhaps if you clearly spelled out that you are linking to your blog (for those who can't mouseover) then there wouldn`t be any room for complaints/confusion?

Good point, Ed . . . I've avoided doing that because it might sound like I'm tooting my horn about it being my blog, and all.  By just linking to it, without reference to the blog, in general, I've felt that I was keeping the rest of my blog in the background, which, I agree, is as it should be . . . I'll have to mull this one over . . . I'm really not trying to steal anybody's thunder, here . . . Nor do I want to double post all over the place, unnecessarily.  (Contrary to popular belief, I do have a private life.)  The way I've been doing it has seemed to me to be the best of all worlds:  providing links for the interested, while providing easy avoidance for those who are not interested. 

BTW, how are you doing on the vaccine thing?  Feeling chipper?  Any side effects at all?

 

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Re: Clicker Beware
Cloudfire wrote:

This question has been answered before, on other threads, as you well know.  I suppose that this is the runup to an appeal to the moderator to respond to "popular demand", but frankly, the fact that the requests are coming from persons who have been generally hostile to my views is not lost on me.  It is also not lost on me that this series of petty complaints follows an intensive email and telephone campaign by a member with whom you associate to rally discontent against me personally. 

But since you are attacking me from a different angle than your cohorts, I'll respond to you, as well.  

Cloudfire,

When have I ever attacked you or what you believe in? Did I not e-mail you my congratulations on creating your own space so that you could be free to express yourself? And I think my posts have shown that I'm my "own man", and not part of some cohort gang out to get you. Has anyone else in this community ever openly disagreed with Dr. Martenson's point of view? Not that I have seen. 

The only thing that I have ever been critical of in your posts is the widespread belief in conspiracy. But even then, it was never directed at you specifically, it was just a warning that behavior like that always leads to the paranoia that everyone is out to get you. I am not out to get you! I barely even know you, and what I do know of you I generally like.

My objection is about blogosphere ethics. One does not post links to one's own site repeatedly in a public forum. Blog traffic is the currency of the blogosphere. By doing this on a regular basis, you are stealing traffic from this forum, plain and simple. 

Also, outside of reporting spam, I have never notified the moderators about anything. Can you say the same? And as far as that video goes, I gave a perfectly clear (transparent) warning to not view it if you were easily offended. 

All I'm asking is that you make it clear in your link nomenclature that the source is your own blog. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks...Jeff

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

This blog is permeated with links. It's requested in the guidlines: provide a snippet and a link please. I see no conflict if the link is to ones own blog site. We're all grown ups here (I think), we can choose to click or not. I see nothing innappropriate or misleading. I appreciate the frequent contributions.

 

Good luck Cloudfire!

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Re: Clicker Beware
JAG wrote:
Cloudfire wrote:

This question has been answered before, on other threads, as you well know.  I suppose that this is the runup to an appeal to the moderator to respond to "popular demand", but frankly, the fact that the requests are coming from persons who have been generally hostile to my views is not lost on me.  It is also not lost on me that this series of petty complaints follows an intensive email and telephone campaign by a member with whom you associate to rally discontent against me personally. 

But since you are attacking me from a different angle than your cohorts, I'll respond to you, as well.  

Cloudfire,

When have I ever attacked you or what you believe in? Did I not e-mail you my congratulations on creating your own space so that you could be free to express yourself? And I think my posts have shown that I'm my "own man", and not part of some cohort gang out to get you. Has anyone else in this community ever openly disagreed with Dr. Martenson's point of view? Not that I have seen. 

The only thing that I have ever been critical of in your posts is the widespread belief in conspiracy. But even then, it was never directed at you specifically, it was just a warning that behavior like that always leads to the paranoia that everyone is out to get you. I am not out to get you! I barely even know you, and what I do know of you I generally like.

My objection is about blogosphere ethics. One does not post links to one's own site repeatedly in a public forum. Blog traffic is the currency of the blogosphere. By doing this on a regular basis, you are stealing traffic from this forum, plain and simple. 

Also, outside of reporting spam, I have never notified the moderators about anything. Can you say the same? And as far as that video goes, I gave a perfectly clear (transparent) warning to not view it if you were easily offended. 

All I'm asking is that you make it clear in your link nomenclature that the source is your own blog. Is that too much to ask?

Thanks...Jeff

I steal no traffic from CM.  It is common practice, on CM, to link to other sites.  Do they all "steal" visitors from CM?  Generally speaking, bloggers and forum managers like cross-linking, as it is mutually beneficial.  Does CM think that my blog is so diametrically opposed to his unspoken agenda that he doesn't want to be associated with it?  Are you his spokesman?

My links open in a new window . . . When you click on one of my links, your window on CM remains open.  From there, as long as you keep your mouse in your pocket, you will see only information that is pertinent to the three E's, and that will pass CM's guidelines. You can close the new window, or read on, as you choose.

The hits on my site are a miniscule percentage of CM's massive public appeal. I neither want to "steal" CM's readers, nor would I want a readership that large.  Furthermore, my core audience is not synonymous with CM's.  Surely, you don't seriously think that I'm a threat to CM's domain? 

Your concern with this matter is way out of proportion to the single click that is required to see my posts.  Consequently, I have to wonder what your motive is.  If CM has a problem with my style, I'm sure that he's man enough to come out and say so. 

Now, if you don't mind, could we please return this thread to the subject at hand?  Or is that the issue from which you would like to distract us?

 

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Re: Clicker Beware
JAG wrote:

My objection is about blogosphere ethics. One does not post links to one's own site repeatedly in a public forum. Blog traffic is the currency of the blogosphere. By doing this on a regular basis, you are stealing traffic from this forum, plain and simple. 

Jeff, it could also be argued that I am giving traffic to this site by providing a much-needed perspective that is not provided by others.  The fact that you do not value my opinion colors your judgement.

 

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

 thank you Cloudfire  ,  My brother had told me about this going on years ago . I just never had the time to look it up .   Bless Him he almost got caught in that system  .   Although he did test very High IQ  and still has to be kept BUSY .

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
jeff wrote:

One does not post links to one's own site repeatedly in a public forum

really?  Steve promoted 2 Beers.  Farmer promotes that youtube dude.  everybody promotes Peter Schiff ad nauseum (which is odd given he wants a return to exponential growth Austrian style...totally out of synch with CM). nate, mish, etc are promoted.  maybe I'm missing your point.

regarding the thread content, the rules when I was working with kids in psych counseling forced me to push them through a psychiatry eval so the doctors could prescribe them endless pharma chemicals.  nothing I could do about it even when the issue was obviously emotional/relational, parental, spiritual.  the parents usually worshipped whatever the doctor told them.  I can't help but think there's a larger strategy here than just big govt enriching big biz.  maybe it was to create a country of people like the adults in WALL-E!  that type of population will borrow when banks tell them to.  Surprised

 

 

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

Strabes,

that type of population will borrow when banks tell them to

There is probably a lot more truth to that than most people realize, but do you think the people might not be able to borrow anymore when they are already doing everything possible to service a $57 trillion dollar interest bearing debt?

Do you think it's possible to borrow so much that eventually you would be unable to even service the interest?

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

I support Cloudfire and her postings AND links to her blog.

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

Obviously, no one understands my point on this, so I will let it go. Sorry for the distraction on your thread L.

Jeff

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
JAG wrote:

Obviously, no one understands my point on this, so I will let it go. Sorry for the distraction on your thread L.

Thanks, Jeff . . .

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

I think there has been a misunderstanding.  While links to outside websites owned by users are generally allowed, links to controversial topics inside the CT folder are allowed, and links to references of any kind are always encouraged, the moderators of this site have never encouraged users to start their own blogs and link to messages written on those blogs instead of posting the material here.

Best,
Jason, moderator

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

I'm with Cloudfire on this. There are many fine viewpoints expressed in the various threads and some really smart people whose views I read with interest. In my opinion two of the most informative regular contributors on the CM site are PlickityCat and Cloudfire. We're not hearing as much from Plickity these days because she and Gungnir are busy surviving in a tent in sub-zero central Alaska -- brrrr. I am avid an follower of their blog.

Cloudfire posts prolifically and I've always found that she makes sense. She thinks it through before she types and posts. It seems to me that offering links to her blog is inoffensive and does not violate any sort of moral or ethical code. And as she puts it, doing so lessens the bandwidth strain on this site. I made several visits to Cloudfire's blog and checked it out. It is well written, thoughful and informative.

Does Cloudfire have an agenda? I suppose so, but I don't find that objectionable either. We all have an agenda of some kind. Like it or not, hers is morally and ethically pure.

What I do find objectionable is any lessening of the rules of civilized discourse. The diplomatic corps has a great saying: Ideas should content; people should not. This is not intended as any sort of criticism of anyone who contributed to this thread. None of the posts in this thread raise any red flags in my mind. But let's not be beating up on Cloudfire. She has done nothing wrong. If you find her posts objectionable, ignore them.

Keep on keeping on, Cloudfire. I'm a fan!

BSV

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
Moderator Jason wrote:

. . .  the moderators of this site have never encouraged users to start their own blogs and link to messages written on those blogs instead of posting the material here.

 

Posting the email in question would be bad form, so suffice to say that I stand by what I have said, and that Jason's statement, as it is worded, is also accurate.  The rest will have to be up to your imaginations, folks . . . And that's enough drama for today.  Cool

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
BSV wrote:

... hers is morally and ethically pure.

Agreed.  As I've said before, by their fruits we will know them.  I daresay if a fraction of the folks in this country had Cloudfire's guts and brains, we'd be in a heck of lot better place.  Chalk me up as an unabashed fan.

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Has Cloudfire Gone Mad? Or Has She Been Helped Along the Way?

It has been a long and trying day, especially for a Sunday, which is normally a restful day for me.  I just wanted to take a moment and thank all of the folks who have come out to support my work.  There are tears in my eyes as I say to you that, in the end, your comments have made all of the blood, sweat, and tears worthwhile . . . Thank you, so much . . .

 

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

I'm going to go against the grain and offer a few words of support for JAG.  I don't read many blogs or go to many forums anymore.  But in the forums I used to visit it was looked down upon to post links to one's own site.  But this was mostly I think because the poster was trying to sell something.

I agree with JAG to the extent that it would be polite to introduce the link as one's own.  Thst this is my blog abou blah, blah, blah...  But  I am not suggesting another rule everyone has to follow,  And I am not suggesting any sort of censorship.  People should be allowed to post whatever they want is my view.

This politeness would be great but I'm being hypocritical.  My own spasms of words could be polished many times over if I  had the time...

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Thanks for the input . . .
r wrote:

I'm going to go against the grain and offer a few words of support for JAG.  I don't read many blogs or go to many forums anymore.  But in the forums I used to visit it was looked down upon to post links to one's own site.  But this was mostly I think because the poster was trying to sell something.

I agree with JAG to the extent that it would be polite to introduce the link as one's own.  Thst this is my blog abou blah, blah, blah...  But  I am not suggesting another rule everyone has to follow,  And I am not suggesting any sort of censorship.  People should be allowed to post whatever they want is my view.

This politeness would be great but I'm being hypocritical.  My own spasms of words could be polished many times over if I  had the time...

Hi, R;

Thanks for the input.  I think that I'm probably going to continue as I have.  This is my reasoning:  When I post, I only want to draw attention to specific information, not my blog, per se.  I really don't want to go blathering on about my blog this, and my blog that . . . I simply want to post a link, and a bit of a description or excerpt to let people know what they're likely to see when they get there . . . and if they click on that link, they'll only see information that would be apropos to CM, unless they click elsewhere.  With the amount of traffic I'm getting tonight as a result of this overblown "scandal", it's hard to imagine that there's anyone left in the world who doesn't know that my links usually lead to posts on my blog, lol.  Thanks, Jeff, but that's attention that I didn't need or want . . .

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...

I preffer when they just link to a blog because it keeps this website cleaner looking I just wish they would set the target for a new window instead of navigating away and having to come back.  Plus it helps to keep this website running faster.  And if someone is a real active blogger and they have good information to share why not share it with people?  I would object if they were just trying to sell viagra or something like that though, but lets be honest, there is lots of good information out there and we are not going to find it all in one place.

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Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
Thomas Hedin wrote:

I preffer when they just link to a blog because it keeps this website cleaner looking I just wish they would set the target for a new window instead of navigating away and having to come back.  Plus it helps to keep this website running faster.  And if someone is a real active blogger and they have good information to share why not share it with people?  I would object if they were just trying to sell viagra or something like that though, but lets be honest, there is lots of good information out there and we are not going to find it all in one place.

Hi, Thomas;

That is precisely why I set my links to open in a new window . . . When I navigate, that's the mode I prefer.

. . . and on a lighter note,  perhaps my critics would be less ornery if I did sell them something pharmaceutical . . . Wink. . .  But then, that would be illegal, and it would run counter to the subject of this thread, which is something about the danger of psychotropic meds, as I recall . . . . In any case, it would provide them with no lasting comfort.  Behind me, there's just another one of those annoying Christian conspiracy theorists, trying to make them miserable  Undecided . . . It's hopeless, really . . .

And, finally, to avoid ending on a cynical note,  I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised and impressed to find you as a supporter on this occasion.  As I recall, I once criticized you in no uncertain terms, on a day when I was in poor mettle . . . and yet, to your credit, you speak out, not for or against my person, but for the principle of the matter . . . You're making it hard to remain uniformly cynical, Thomas . . .

I've learned quite a lot about people in the past day or so . . . both in general and specific terms . . . I feel a bit schizoid, at the moment . . . I've been left simultaneously more deeply cynical about the usual suspects, and more hopeful than I had thought possible by others . . . I think I need to take a bit to digest it all, but, at the moment I'm of a mind to think that honesty is demonstrating itself to be the best policy . . . It tends to be an equal opportunity hound dog . . It flushes out all manner of birds . . .

 

 

 

 

JAG's picture
JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2492
Re: Has America Gone Mad, or Has It Been Helped Along the ...
Cloudfire wrote:

 I just wanted to take a moment and thank all of the folks who have come out to support my work.  There are tears in my eyes as I say to you that, in the end, your comments have made all of the blood, sweat, and tears worthwhile . . . Thank you, so much . . .

Hey Cloudfire,

It looks like I should "attack" you more often, Laughing.

and again sorry for the drama....I really didn't intend it to stir-up a fuss, LOL.

PS: I would have back-channeled my concerns to you, but my email to you gets bounced back.

All the best...Jeff

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