H1N1 Time For A New Thread

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H1N1 Time For A New Thread

I decided to go ahead and start a new thread for several reasons.  The one reason I'll mention is the most important, this virus is evolving. I'll do my best to continue posting some of the latest info. and commentary by the CDC and WHO as well as scientific studies.  I do believe this is a virus to take seriously and so I'm not going to post articles to the contrary.  Someone else can feel free to be the apposing view, I welcome that and I won't be offended but just be ready for a healthy debate.  I also won't always be timely with the latest news and information simply because I travel a lot but I'll do my best.

I've seen this thread topic stall into nothingness in the past but I think it's time to pull it back up so here it goes.  For those interested.

http://pf11-trends-and-issues.blogspot.com/

Here you will find a link to the latest CDC report

Also from good ole Dr. Niman

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11230901/D225G_1918_US.html

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11230902/H274Y_Explode.html

 

 

 

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

H1N1 is peaking as we speak.  Currently a fairly benign disease. Vaccine is probably a little safer than the disease itself, but not by much.  It will save you 3 days of feeling very bad.  It is time to start preparing for the next epidemic, because this one was handled badly.  Luckily it was just a false alarm.

That's my condensed take from my multiple posts on the other thread.

Doc

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

 Thanks Doc.  Just a quick question.  False alarm?  We haven't officially entered flu season so how do you know this is just "a false alarm"?  Your statement is a bit premature IMO but I am eager for your explanation.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

About 10 percent of the US population has allready been infected and probably 30 percent will have had it prior to "flu season".  I looke for another 30- 40 percent to be vaccinated by then and infedtion rates will fall precipitously.

Flu season will still be flu season.  It just won't be H1N1 flu.Wink

 

The false alarm I meant was there won't be millions dead or disabled.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
docmims wrote:

H1N1 is peaking as we speak.  Currently a fairly benign disease. Vaccine is probably a little safer than the disease itself, but not by much.  It will save you 3 days of feeling very bad.  It is time to start preparing for the next epidemic, because this one was handled badly.  Luckily it was just a false alarm.

That's my condensed take from my multiple posts on the other thread.

Doc

Hey Doc -

So if I don't get the vaccination (I won't) and take every precaution to not get the flu (historically successful), chances are I probably win.  Since 1983, I've received exactly two flu shots and had the flu once. 

What's your professional, clinical assessment of my approach?

I'm more worried about the occasional sinus infection - kind of like the one I'm fighting right now.  Nothing a few acetaminophen containing "medicine chest bombing runs" can't handle though.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

I will be beyond excited to see you're assumptions play out Doc.  I can see exactly what you're saying indeed happening.  That would be great.

In the mean time I'll keep an eye on things.

"millions dead or disabled" would be beyond alarm, hundreds of thousands would do the trick IMO.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

I'm with Dogs on this!

I've been gargling daily and taking some herbal antivirals in addition to making sure I get my excersise cycling to work (avoiding public transportation) and eating really well. If I'm at all feeling at risk I'll take a good dose of Oil of Oregano too. Cleans ya right out!

r.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

[

So if I don't get the vaccination (I won't) and take every precaution to not get the flu (historically successful), chances are I probably win.  Since 1983, I've received exactly two flu shots and had the flu once. 

What's your professional, clinical assessment of my approach?

I'm more worried about the occasional sinus infection - kind of like the one I'm fighting right now.  Nothing a few acetaminophen containing "medicine chest bombing runs" can't handle though.

If you have no big underlying health problems you are probably quite safe.  The risk of death in the first 22 million H1N1 cases was 1 in approx 3000 cases -- and this did not take into account underlying disease and cause of death. ie some had the flu but died from another cause (probably exacerbated by the flu).  I had H1N1 and felt really lousy for 3days.  I might have gotten the vaccine, but we still haven't gotten a supply of vaccine as of thanksgiving at our fairly large 100 employee surgery center.

BTW I am not infectious disease specialist.  I just kind of got involved, because I felt there was  a disconnect with all this hype.  Just didn't seem right.

Doc

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

what about what it morphed into in Ukraine?

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/282540

I still won't get the vaccine and will try to be healthy, but the risk factor certainly shoots up.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

One of the components of the camp calling this a non event is the vaccine living up to it's reputation of being effective against SF however with meaningful mutations in the SF virus (some already underway) we could be looking at a game changer.  This is why I will remain open to the scenario evolving into something more concerning.  That's assuming we're not already there, we just don't yet know it.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

As long as the virus keeps the same antigens, those who have gotten the vaccine and those who have gotten the disease will still be immune.  If it loses it's antigens: well then it won't be H1N1 will it?

All these flu viruses exchange antigens, that's why half the time the flu vaccine for a given year is ineffective, because it's antigens are set the previous spring or summer and by the time the next flu season rolls around the virus is totally different that planned for.  The flu is a serious event every single year, I just don't understand the overwhelming hype this year other than this virus has a catchy name and can infect a pig as well as a human.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

This article re a mutation --

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11230901/D225G_1918_US.html

-- is a little unsettling, especially if this variant becomes widespread.  

But it does seem to me that H1N1 is going to turn out to be the Little Virus That Couldn't.  

Viva -- Sager

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Maybe part of the "hype" is the fact that over half of the fatal cases involved young, healthy persons that seasonal flu does not kill.  Just out of curiousity, have you (doc) read any of the links I've posted over the last few days, including today?

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Honestly Doc, this virus is more then a catchy name because of the people it's killed, they have been, for the most part, young and healthy also the numbers of those infected, again at this point, rival the totals in an entire flu season and we're not even at the beginning of a traditional flu season yet.  Not to mention the fact that Maybe we're in a first wave and the corralations to 1918 are eery even to the casual observer.  What is hard for me to understand is that, as a sergeon, why you don't get this.  Then again, on the last visit to our peds doc, before I left the room she commented that she believes that I know more about this virus then she does.  Also, this spring my daughters infectious desease specialist, when asked if I should be concerned about my daughter fighting Mono at the time, should I be worried about her getting swine flu.  His comment was, "swine flu is gone' so no worries".  Literally 5 days later, while we vacationed in San Diego, a teen girl (perfectly healthy and no underlying health conditions and early medical care for SF) died within 2 days from the onset of  Swine Flu.  It was all over the local news as we watched from our hotel after the previous day at Disney Land.  I only mention this because as you are someone in the medical field (surgeon is it?) people on this site will figure you have more knowledge as it pertains to this virus and I just think it's fair to challange that assumption.  Just sayin.  I look forward and with an open mind, to your response and I respect the fact that you are in medicine, I just don't get, what I would call, your cavalier outlook.  Thats all.

 

There's been a new development in Texas that's worth considering and following.  Two men recently passed from Swine Flu and the kicker is they were room mates.

 

 http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11230903/Texas_Cluster_Fatal.html

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

rocketgirl.  Most of the kids that died when you read more about them or dug into their history were asthmatics or cancer patients on steroids.  This doesn't come out when the paper says 5 y/o or 20y'o dies of swine flu.  You have to read between the lines in a lot of those articles.  Like at the end of the article when it says memoriams accepted to the Ronald McDonald House or American Cancer Society.  Huge clues there.

This is no different to half the death rate on healthy patients than the regular flu, and less than one tenth the death rate from Norwalk agent (stomach flu).

I am not commenting on death rates in the rest of the world.  Just Georgia, USA where I live.

Just to put it in perspective about 400,000 healthy pediatric deaths will occur from rotavirus in healthy kids this year ages 1 to 5 years old. Of just plain old common diarhea.  Almost 10 times as many as the flu.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
rocketgirl1 wrote:

 

There's been a new development in Texas that's worth considering and following.  Two men recently passed from Swine Flu and the kicker is they were room mates.

 

 http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11230903/Texas_Cluster_Fatal.html

Yes rocketgirl.  Read between those lines.  HiV status is not commonly released.  That would be politically incorrect.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Are Ukraine Black Death Cases result of IMF Loans

 

By F. William Engdahl       24 November 2009

 

The Ukraine Government has declared a state of emergency and medical examiners describe results of autopsies on dead patients in chilling terms that recall the Black Death descriptions from the Fourteenth Century in Venice. While everyone is calling it “Swine Flu” and the WHO using it to spread their panic and untested vaccines, there is strong evidence that the deaths—almost all from pulmonary conditions—are from a rising incidence of Tuberculosis (TB). Now a Cambridge University study shows that there is a close correlation between rise in TB and the severe austerity measures that go with IMF loans. Are the Ukraine ‘Black Death’ cases the result of Ukraine’s IMF loans? 

 

While attention is turned to the non-proven H1N1 as cause of a recent wave of illnesses and even some deaths across Ukraine, few if any have bothered to look at the public health consequences of Ukraine’s program with the International Monetary Fund. When the global financial crisis erupted into a systemic crisis in September 2008, one of the countries most devastated was Ukraine, where foreign lending had created an untenable speculative bubble that burst with a vengeance leaving the Ukraine currency falling like a stone and bankruptcies  everywhere in one of Europe’s poorest countries.

 In November 2008 Ukraine applied to the IMF in Washington for an emergency $16.4 billion loan. The loan is being spoon-fed to the government in chunks of several billion to insure the Government follows the strict IMF “conditionalities” demanded by Washington. The purpose of the IMF loan is explicitly to stabilize the Ukraine currency and support the Central Bank, and not to help the economy or the population come through the crisis. The IMF argues that if the currency restabilizes, then foreign investors will return. That is a fairy tale at best. But in the process, the IMF is demanding savage cuts in pension benefits, public services including health services.

 There is where the link between IMF loans and an explosion of TB cases converge.

 

Cambridge study shows link

 A major study undertaken by Britain’s respected Cambridge University establishes a clear link between IMF conditions and sharp rises in incidence of TB, a disease related to severe poverty conditions and lack of public health infrastructure and hence most common in Africa or poorer Asian regions.

 In every cvase when the IMF makes emergency loans, it demands a “structural adjustment program.” In every case the medicine is the same: The target government must impose severe cuts in spending, including spending for public health and pensions to “control inflation.” Some critics have suggested the IMF be renamed the “Infant Mortality Fund” as the practice has been repeated with predictable results so often in African and other countries.

 A study by David Stuckler at the University of Cambridge has now analyzed TB data in 21 countries in central and eastern Europe that were involved with the IMF for different amounts of time after 1989 and borrowed different amounts of money. The study was published in the journal PLoS Medicine. It statistically controlled for numerous other factors that affect tuberculosis rates, including the prevalence of AIDS, inflation rates, urbanization, unemployment rates, the age of the population and improved surveillance.

 They found these IMF countries had significantly more TB cases, and more deaths from TB than countries without IMF loans. The countries started with TB death rates averaging six per 100,000 of the population. This rose to 12 per 100,000 by 2003 in countries with IMF loans, fully double the rate, but sank in countries without them.

 "We found TB rates were falling or steady before the IMF programmes began, and rose during the IMF programs," then fell again afterwards to almost the rate they had been before the IMF, says Stuckler.The team found that death rates rose almost 1% for each percent increase in the size of the IMF loan, and by another 4% for each year of IMF involvement. The TB effect was not associated with other lenders, such as the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development, which invests in Eastern Europe.

 The reason the Cambridge scientists found was that IMF loans uniquely demand less government spending, fewer doctors per person, and a cut of nearly half in the number of people with TB that received Directly Observed Therapy, or DOTS. DOTS is the World Health Organisation's recommended method of managing TB, in which health personnel directly ensure that TB outpatients always take their medicine. The technique requires investment in public health staff.

 TB actually kills quickly when patients do not get proper medical supervision, so death rates are likely an indicator of rapidly declining care, not of events years previously.

 The IMF claims the increase in TB was related to the fall of the Soviet Union. But, if that was so, says Stuckler, the effect should have been similar across the old Soviet block, instead of being linked closely to IMF involvement. In Slovenia, which got no IMF loan, he points out, TB didn't worsen at all.

 

Ukraine conditions

IMF demands have become politicized in the heated Ukranian election battle for early 2010. Prime Minister Julia Tymoshenko has agreed to IMF demands for cuts in public wages and pensions. Her rival President Viktor Yushchenko has rescinded the cuts, putting the IMF loan on hold.

Ukraine’s biggest strategic companies are saddled with crippling debts, including the state gas company which has struggled to meet Russian gas payments, only just managing a $500m payment this month. The global economic crisis has caused the country's budget deficit to balloon, its inefficient Soviet-era factories to stagger, and international rating agencies have rushed to downgrade their view of economic prospects. The national currency, the hryvnia, has plunged by 60 per cent in a year, foreign direct investment has slowed to a trickle, and bad bank loans have multiplied.

Under the latest IMF loan Ukraine has been forced to slash spending on public health, close hospitals and fire doctors and health professionals. At the same time pensions have been cut or even suspended for lack of funds.

At the same time the IMF has demanded hefty tax hikes to balance the budget, something not even OECD economies are doing and something which only insures more impoverishment and unemployment. The tax hikes “will help to address the fiscal situation. It is now important that measures are taken to prevent the projected deficit of the pension fund,” Ceyla Pazarbasioglu, the IMF mission chief to Ukraine has said in a statement reported by the Wall Street Journal. GDP has fallen in Ukraine by 25-30% in the first two months of 2009 year on year.

The IMF has demanded Ukraine “balance” its pension funds, i.e. slash benefits to retired citizens, something few Western countries dare to do. Unemployment has doubled since September 2008 to 1 million people jobless. There are protests at the situation. Foreign banks control some 20% of Ukraine’s banking. If people wish to find the true “swine” source of rising TB deaths in Ukraine, they perhaps should look to the effects of the IMF loans on the health standards of the population and not to an unproven hypothetical so-called Swine Flu H1N1 virus.

 

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
docmims wrote:
rocketgirl1 wrote:

 

There's been a new development in Texas that's worth considering and following.  Two men recently passed from Swine Flu and the kicker is they were room mates.

 

 http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11230903/Texas_Cluster_Fatal.html

Yes rocketgirl.  Read between those lines.  HiV status is not commonly released.  That would be politically incorrect.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
docmims wrote:
rocketgirl1 wrote:

 

There's been a new development in Texas that's worth considering and following.  Two men recently passed from Swine Flu and the kicker is they were room mates.

 

 http://www.recombinomics.com/News/11230903/Texas_Cluster_Fatal.html

Yes rocketgirl.  Read between those lines.  HiV status is not commonly released.  That would be politically incorrect.

Oh, Okay, I get it.  Because they were room mates they MUST be gay?  It couldn't possibly be a mutated strain, oh no, they must be gay AND of course they would also be HIV positive (wink, wink)  Now I see where you're coming from doc.  No more questions.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Hey HC, although I don't doubt anything in the article you've posted (which I read early in the Ukrainian outbreak) the one statement I will chalenge is this  

(quote) If people wish to find the true “swine” source of rising TB deaths in Ukraine, they perhaps should look to the effects of the IMF loans on the health standards of the population and not to an unproven hypothetical so-called Swine Flu H1N1 (end quote)

Any way you slice it, politics and money can not turn lungs black.  Of course Ukraine has experienced Swine Flu and of course it has killed people.  Are the numbers as reported?  Many say underreported and many say over reported for political reasons and some say it's poor health care that caused so many deaths.  I don't really care I just look at the science and the sequences released from cadavar patients and that tells the SF story in Ukraine.  A virus doesn't give a rat's assests about politics and money and in the end the virus will have it's way with both.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Well there will probably be another 20 or 30 thousand cases of H1N1 in that area of Texas over the next couple weeks.  We'll see if the death rate goes up. You do realize that Texas is number 4 in the nation in HiV cases just behind New York and California and right above my own state of GA.

The tradgedy is rate of Hiv infection in schoolchildren in my hometown of Macon is about 1 in 300 to 400 and if one of those kids dies with H1N1,  I guarantee it will not be in the obit.  .

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
docmims wrote:

rocketgirl.  Most of the kids that died when you read more about them or dug into their history were asthmatics or cancer patients on steroids.  This doesn't come out when the paper says 5 y/o or 20y'o dies of swine flu.  You have to read between the lines in a lot of those articles.  Like at the end of the article when it says memoriams accepted to the Ronald McDonald House or American Cancer Society.  Huge clues there.

This is no different to half the death rate on healthy patients than the regular flu, and less than one tenth the death rate from Norwalk agent (stomach flu).

I am not commenting on death rates in the rest of the world.  Just Georgia, USA where I live.

Just to put it in perspective about 400,000 healthy pediatric deaths will occur from rotavirus in healthy kids this year ages 1 to 5 years old. Of just plain old common diarhea.  Almost 10 times as many as the flu.

 

How does this put Swine flu into perspective when the US isn't even on the list of countries where most RV deaths occur? 

http://www.who.int/immunization_monitoring/burden/rotavirus_deaths_2004_chart_a.jpg

Of course we'll see these deaths in developing countries where simple medical treatment (hydration) would save lives.

 

I just think this virus isn't over yet and it's important for people to understand that they need to continue to stay informed.  We are just now heading into the traditional flu season and now is when it's most important to pay attention.

 

BTW, Most of the deaths from SF and where there were no underlying health conditions, came as a result of secondary infection, ie: Strep, MRSA, etc.  and in very rare cases Cytokine storm or Hemorrhagic Pneumonia.  The secondary infections have overtaken the body within 24 to 36 hours.  I say this because it's also important for folks to watch for these possibilities.

Doggs mentioned a sinus infection but I just had to bite my toungue because the fact is that any coinfection with SF can become fatal and that's exactly what folks need to know.

These blanket statements saying SF is just a bunch of hype will cause people to not pay attention and that's why I'm not giving up on this issue.

I don't care about whose right I just want the truth presented in a way that will be helpful to those reading.

 

This 60 Minutes piece tells the story

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=5394553n&tag=cbsnewsMainColumnArea.6

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

That's fair to say Doc but I'll argue facts before I stand on assumptions.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Harry Calohan,

Thanks for the post on the IMF causing health problems by depriving nations of basic medical needs.  IMF abuses have been well documented - they are committing crimes against humanity but no one seems to care.

Larry

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Dr. Mercola and Sharyl Attkisson (video 1)

  • Video 2 - 
  • Video 3 - 
  • Video 4 - 

Sharyl Attkisson is a CBS News correspondent and investigative reporter. She’s covered Capitol Hill since February 2006 and has been a Washington-based correspondent there since January 1995. She was also part of the CBS news team that received the Edward Murrow Award in 2005 for overall excellence. Additionally, she received an Outstanding Investigative Journalism Emmy in 2002 for a series on the Red Cross.

In case you didn’t realize it, Sharyl Attkisson is the investigative reporter behind the groundbreaking CBS News study that found H1N1 flu cases are NOT as prevalent as feared.

In fact, they’re barely on the radar screen.

How did this startling information come about, and why is the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) painting a different picture entirely? I spoke directly with Sharyl Attkisson to find out.

Ms. Attkisson says:

“The reason I looked into this is a couple of months ago, I got tips from three or four different segments of public healthcare, with folks telling me the CDC has recommended that they go ahead and stop testing for and counting swine flu cases.

Each different entity that contacted me was concerned, thinking that this should not be happening. They really felt that it was necessary for the swine flu to continue to be tracked in some details. So I went about trying to find out why this decision was made and what the ramifications would be.

… I started by contacting the CDC and the HHS and asking some basic questions. I felt like I pretty much got stonewalled with some of the information I really needed to get at, especially what I needed from the states data, and information on the rationale behind this decision to stop counting and testing for swine flu.”

“One of my good sources within the government said to me that they’re either trying to, in his opinion, over-represent the swine flu numbers or under-represent by not counting them anymore. He said, “You need to find out which it is.” And so to find out which it might be, I really wanted to see the data that the CDC had at the time it made the decision to quit counting the cases.”

What Her Investigative Report Reveals

If you listen to most media outlets and even to government agencies, you get the impression that virtually every person who has visited their physician with flu-like symptoms in recent months has H1N1, with no testing necessary because, after all, there’s an epidemic.

We are all being led to believe that every case diagnosed as “swine flu” or even as “flu-like illness” is, in fact, swine flu.  But Attkisson’s investigation revealed a very different picture right from her first contact with individual states. She explains:

“Across the country, state by state, they were testing [for H1N1] until CDC told them not to bother. They were testing, in general, the cases most likely to be believed to have been swine flu based on a doctor’s diagnosis of symptoms and risk factors such as travel to Mexico.

These special cases were going to state labs for absolute confirmation with the best test — not the so-called “rapid testing,” but the real confirmation test.

Of those presumed likely swine flu cases out of approximately every hundred of what was tested, only a small fraction were actually swine flu. In every instance, perhaps the biggest number of cases that were swine flu was something like 30%. The smallest number was something like 2% or 3%.  Maybe there’s one state where it was just 1%.

The point is, of the vast majority of the presumed swine flu cases recognized by trained physicians, the vast majority were not flu at all. They weren’t swine flu or regular flu; they were some other sort of upper respiratory infection.”

And here is the clincher that it seems the CDC just doesn’t want the American public to know …

“The CDC explained that one of the reasons they quit counting was because of all the flu that’s out there, most are swine flu. Well, that’s true. Most of the flu that was out there was indeed swine flu, but they failed to say that most of the suspected flu was nothing at all. And I think that’s the caveat the public just didn’t know,” Attkisson explains.

She gives even more striking examples of the numbers the investigative report revealed. For instance:

  • In Florida, 83 percent of specimens that were presumed to be swine flu were negative for all flu when tested!
  • In California, 86 percent of suspected H1N1 specimens were not swine flu or any flu; only 2 percent were confirmed swine flu.
  • In Alaska, 93 percent of suspected swine flu specimens were negative for all flu types; only 1 percent was H1N1 flu.

Freedom of Information and Getting the Truth Out

It is not easy for journalists to access this type of information, and they often have to wait weeks, months or even years for information from the CDC and the FDA — information that is readily available and supposed to be clearly public.

“They [CDC’s public affairs] quit communicating with me when I pressed on why I couldn’t get certain information. They just wouldn’t answer my emails anymore. So I had to file a Freedom of Information request, which is usually my last choice because I know I was going into a deep black hole many times and I’ll never get an answer.

But in this case, I got an interesting response on October 19 from the CDC when I had asked for some simple, public documents that would have been easy for them to obtain too quickly.

Journalists are allowed to ask for expedited processing of their Freedom of Information request because, for obvious reasons, they’re working on a story that may have public impact or be of public interest. The agencies are not supposed to use the Freedom of Information Law to obstruct or delay the release of this information.

This may be the first time I was denied that expedited processing from Freedom of Information that we’re entitled to as members of the press; a letter from HHS or Health and Human Services (the CDC is under HHS) said to me that one of the reasons they’re denying my expedited processing is because this is not a matter of “widespread and exceptional media or public interest.”

In other words, the CDC doesn’t think these questions about swine flu prevalence and these other things that we’ve been asking are, at least in their opinion in this letter, not a matter of widespread and exceptional media or public interest.”

Yet, while the CDC expressed that questions about swine flu prevalence were not a matter of widespread media or public interest, the President had declared the swine flu a national public health emergency!  The inconsistencies at the CDC are nearly incomprehensible.

The Ramifications of the Swine Flu Policy

According to Attkisson’s CBS News study, when you come down with chills, fever, cough, runny nose, malaise and all those other “flu-like” symptoms, the illness is likely caused by influenza at most 17 percent of the time and as little as 3 percent! The other 83 to 97 percent of the time it’s caused by other viruses or bacteria. So remember that not every illness that appears to be the flu actually is the flu. In fact, most of the time it’s not.

Curiously, the CDC still advises those who were told they had 2009 H1N1 (and therefore should be immune to getting it again) to get vaccinated unless they had lab confirmation.

But because very few people have actually had a lab-confirmed case of H1N1 (and in most cases those people told they had swine flu probably did not), this means nearly everyone is still being advised to get the swine flu vaccine.

“From a public and journalistic standpoint, I believe the mistake comes when you don’t fully disclose to the public as you go and discover the mistakes. Try to disclose and fix things that come up.

Everybody understands that there isn’t a perfect system, but I think you need to be upfront with them, explain what you’re doing, and explain what you’re discovering. If you’ve made a mistake or you feel like you need to correct something, say that, too, but don’t just try to keep information from the public.”

Link to Complete Article

Get used to it - the CDC is another organization taken over by the globalists.  These agencies are accountable to no one other than the corporations that control them.

Larry

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

Get used to it - the CDC is another organization taken over by the globalists.  These agencies are accountable to no one other than the corporations that control them.

Larry

Actually, the truth is that the CDC is accountable to the US Senate under the Minority Office of the Federal Financial Subcommittee chaired by ranking member Senator Dr. Tom Coburn.

Not the globalists. 

Whoever the hell they are.

Less flights of fancy, more fact.

http://coburn.senate.gov/oversight/?FuseAction=OversightAction.View&ContentRecord_id=bf7e1789-802a-23ad-42e1-57d542e77901

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

I agree with Larry.  I was as alarmed as anyone else when the first death rates were released from Mexico, but as this epidemic unfolded and I saw firsthand the cases,  I think we all were scammed by a CDC just looking for funding.

And yes rocketgirl, that is definately an OPINION, not a fact.

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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

I'm only quoting a portion because obviously anyone can scroll up to your post for the full story but I think this portion is telling.

These special cases were going to state labs for absolute confirmation with the best test — not the so-called “rapid testing,” but the real confirmation test.

Of those presumed likely swine flu cases out of approximately every hundred of what was tested, only a small fraction were actually swine flu. In every instance, perhaps the biggest number of cases that were swine flu was something like 30%. The smallest number was something like 2% or 3%.  Maybe there’s one state where it was just 1%.

The point is, of the vast majority of the presumed swine flu cases recognized by trained physicians, the vast majority were not flu at all. They weren’t swine flu or regular flu; they were some other sort of upper respiratory infection.”

And here is the clincher that it seems the CDC just doesn’t want the American public to know …

“The CDC explained that one of the reasons they quit counting was because of all the flu that’s out there, most are swine flu. Well, that’s true. Most of the flu that was out there was indeed swine flu, but they failed to say that most of the suspected flu was nothing at all. And I think that’s the caveat the public just didn’t know,” Attkisson explains.

She gives even more striking examples of the numbers the investigative report revealed. For instance:

  • In Florida, 83 percent of specimens that were presumed to be swine flu were negative for all flu when tested!
  • In California, 86 percent of suspected H1N1 specimens were not swine flu or any flu; only 2 percent were confirmed swine flu.
  • In Alaska, 93 percent of suspected swine flu specimens were negative for all flu types; only 1 percent was H1N1 flu.

A couple of things to keep in mind when reading this report are, 1. SF was the only flu circulating during the summer months when this report was published and therefore there was no reason to type test especially with a rapid test coming back 40-50% inaccurate anyways.

  • 2. deaths recorded from secondary infections with subsequint flu type illnesses very well could have been Sf just the same it's just that the virus is not what killed these individuals but rather the secondary infection that followed, as is most often the case with flu.
  • also, I don't see anyone commenting on the fact that this flu strain not only struck in the spring, circled the globe in 6 weeks, wreaked havoc in the southern hemishpere and is now the dominant strain today with the obvious second and possibly third waves yet to come.
  • Is anyone else getting this or am I standing alone here?
  • I just thought folks ought to keep paying attention to this but if the only particapents will be the nay sayers then we can be done here, it's all good.  I definately have better things to do with my time and my family is going to be protected as good as can be so I don't mind stopping at this point.
  • If folks want me to continue with updates then chime in cuz I've got baking to do and some food prep calling my name rather then trying to prove points with this crowd.
  • No harm done I just don't want to beat a dead horse.
  • Nice debate guys, thanks for the links etc.  Laughing
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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread
rocketgirl1 wrote:
  • If folks want me to continue with updates then chime in cuz I've got baking to do and some food prep calling my name rather then trying to prove points with this crowd.
  • No harm done I just don't want to beat a dead horse.
  • Nice debate guys, thanks for the links etc.  Laughing

rocketgirl -

Beat away and keep the updates coming.  I think the only thing we can say is we don't know as much as we need to know to support the correct conclusion, much less some of the "definitive conclusions" floating around out there at the far ends of the credibility spectrum.

My evidence is based on a very small sample group - no one in my family, no one I work with or no one I know has been diagnosed with the flu - swine, avian, apian, dromedarian, echidnian, etc. or otherwise.

I do say "Hmmm" at why the severity was (apparently) overblown in the beginning, and another "Hmmm" over the rush to produce and get a vaccination in the system and the media PR blitz for everyone to get a shot.  But I am going to stop well short of the 'engineered die out' and 'population culling' some of the more notorious CT advocates are certain was the motive force behind all of this.

Personally, I think it lies somewhere between being overly conservative and an opportunity for some greedy POS to make a quick buck on fear-mongering.

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DrKrbyLuv
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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

Sorry rocketgirl1, I didn't mean to be a naysayer on your thread.  I'll politely take my nay-saying elsewhere.

So, please keep posting, information is what is needed and you've done a fantastic job keeping us up to date.  It is a shame that we have to scrape and scratch for credible information but that's the way it is.  I don't want to dismiss the possible severity of any illness - because I just don't know (I'm a doc in nick only).

Larry

 

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rocketgirl1
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Re: H1N1 Time For A New Thread

I never and I repeat NEVER take a healthy debate personally so no harm and no foul.  I just don't want to waste my time with up dates if no one is really interested and the only contributors are thinking it's game over, no big deal.  I'll keep posting if it will benifit even just one person and it sounds like it will so I'll do my best. 

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