Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, Krugerrands, et al.

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SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
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Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, Krugerrands, et al.

Hey all --

Last time I went to buy some PMs (silver eagles) the dealer offered up some silver "rounds" (forget which type).  I blew that off and went w/Eagles mostly because I didn't know anything about rounds even though the premium was lower for rounds. 

SO -- what does anybody know about "rounds"?  Yah, yah, they're the same weight, etc., but what's folks opinions about post-Fan acceptance of some obscure 1-oz silver coin vs. Eagles/Loonies/Krugs/other better-known coins?  Are some rounds better/worse than others? 

I'm right now because with the recent uptick in PMs I've been thinking "dang, that last set of Ag Iggles I bought are just about in the money (figuring in the premium)".  If I'd gone w/rounds, that buy would've been in the money a while ago. 

So -- all things being equal -- is it worth paying the premium for widely-known coins?  Or are rounds (or certain rounds) the way to go -- in our opinion?  To a certain extent, I know if PMs go parabolic then a dollar here, dollar there won't matter much -- but I'm still curious...

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Viva -- Sager

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LogansRun
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

This is a tough one Sager.  One thing I suggest is going here:

http://www.24hgold.com/english/buy_sell_silver_coins.aspx?co_id=0

Take a look at what the premiums are on each item.  

I can tell you, when I was selling this stuff a year or so ago, rounds never got more than Eagles or Maples.  But of the rounds that had the most action and seemed to be what people wanted, these 3 stood out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Pure-silver-round-depicting-American-Indian-Profile-/200512342579?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eaf778a33#ht_500wt_947

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-GEM-BU-Freedom-Round-One-Troy-oz-999-Fine-Silver-/180552946129?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a09cb51d1#ht_1994wt_932

http://cgi.ebay.com/Liberty-Mint-One-Troy-Oz-999-Fine-Silver-Round-BU-/220660325916?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3360615e1c#ht_3134wt_1025

Now your AMarks, APMEX, Sunshine Minting, Silvertown, etc.....are ones that didn't sell with much premium at all.  Although, there were times, when the rumor was that silver was in low supply, that the markup was better.  But all in all, those 3 are the best movers.  

As for SHTF, I'd stick with Eagles, Maples, Philly's and 90%.

Hope this helps.

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SagerXX
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

Right.  MAPLES, not Loonies.  <smile>

I'll look into this stuff.  Thanks for the linkage.

Viva -- Sager

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SagerXX
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

So I checked the sites.  Seems like the premium over spot for rounds isn't too much different from the big names (Eagles, Philharmonics, Maples, etc.).  And when it comes to SHTF I concur -- immediate trust/recognition of whatever coin I'm throwing seems to be worth the premium.

One intriguing option would be things like 100g (or 1-oz) bars.  There's a heap of different types on ebay.  Then again, I'm all about no paper trail.  And again, folks might be less likely to trust them (at least right off).

Thanks for the links, man.  I like learning...

Viva -- Sager

 

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LogansRun
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

Yeah, the difference in markups/premium right now is pretty minimum.  When there's a rush on the products though, there's usually about a 40% difference in premium.  In all honesty, I keep about 60% of my rounds in Maple form.  I just like the looks of them better....cleaner and shiny.

As for the bars, again depends on the makers.  Poured bars seem to have a better premium than stamped.  And the other thing, pictures don't do justice to many of the bars.  I ordered 25/100oz Academy Bars back when Ag was at $9.75oz, thinking that I was going to get these ugly looking stackable bars.

http://www.tulving.com/bullion/academy_100_oz_999_silver_bar.htm

But when you open them up.......WOW!  They really are very attractive bars!  IMO, much nicer looking than the JMathey's.  

IMO, you should always have some of everything.  The 1oz bars are nice and they will spend in shtf situations, after a while.  But IMO they won't be your first go to PM to buy things.  

BTW:  Never buy from Tulving (the link above).  The guy is an absolute JERK!  

Hope this helps.

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earthwise
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

 

What about Krugerrands? I've got some of those, but it seems most discussions center around Eagles and Maples and  the poor Kruggies get treated like a redheaded stepchild.Cry

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LogansRun
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

No such thing as Silver Krugs.  At least not official ones.  There are some mfg's that will make replicas and should be selling them as Rounds and not official coins.  

As for Gold Krugs, they're GREAT!  

Again, as with any investment, you should be diversified.

 

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earthwise
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

 

Yeah gold, that's what I was refering to. As for diversification, I 'm workin' on it; just started with the Kruggies.

Thanks

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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...
The following is from a "white paper" I wrote for family, friends, and acquaintances on gold investing.
 
"Privately held gold coins are the preferred form of holding physical gold for the average middle class investor with concerns about the overall soundness and stability of societal systems (be they financial, economic, geopolitical, social, etc.).  My personal preference is for 1 oz. gold bullion coins with some numismatic value that may make them less vulnerable to potential gold confiscation.  American Gold Eagles are my favorite and are the #1 choice of investors worldwide.  Their content, weight, and purity are guaranteed by the U.S. government.  Also, although they are, in practice, thought of more as bullion coins, gold eagles are considered by law to be numismatics according to the Gold Bullion Coin Act of 1985.  As a consequence, they sell at a higher premium over spot price than such forms as gold French "roosters" (i.e. essentially foreign bullion coins) or gold rounds or bars.  They are highly liquid, easily transferable and transportable, and would be difficult to counterfeit. 
 
Other 1 oz. gold coins to consider include South African Krugerrands (which are 22K and tend to have the lowest premium over spot of the 1 oz. gold bullion coins), Canadian Maple Leaves, and Austrian Philharmonics (the latter two of which are both 24K).  Each of these foreign bullion coins has a slightly lower premium over spot price than eagles. There are, however, no reporting requirements for the sale of eagles while sales of 25 or more of these one ounce foreign gold coins must be reported by the dealer to the government in accordance with the Broker Reporting Act of 1982 (which specifically named maples leaves, krugerrands, and Mexican Gold Onzas).  On the other hand, on the remote chance that you might want to transport your gold to a foreign country, there may be tax liabilities that can vary with the coin and its gold content.  Canada, for example, imposes a goods and services tax (GST) on any gold that is less than 99.5% purity (meaning maple leaves and philharmonics would be exempt while eagles and krugerrands would be non-exempt).  Canadian provincial sales taxes (PST) or a combined harmonized sales tax (HST) may be levied on the less pure coins as well."
In addition to the above, one reason I shied away from krugerrands were the past political implications of a South African gold coin.  While I no longer consider the political situation in South Africa a major problem, krugerrands seemed to have a stigma that made me gravitate towards eagles and maples leaves.  That's just an opinion based on feeling, not fact.  YMMV.
 
I would stay away from gold bars, especially the larger bars.  One thing you have to consider is how are you going to liquidate your gold and silver when the time comes.  You can only insure shipments up to $25,000.  A 32.15 oz. "kilo" gold bar, for example, is worth much more than that.  That means if you ship the bar back and it is lost or stolen (admittedly, a very remote possibility), you will only be able to recover $25,000 in insurance.  Also, with the larger gold bars, the potential for counterfeiting increases.  In addition, the possibility of finding a buyer with the large amount of cash needed to buy a larger bar is far more remote than the possibility of finding a buyer for a 1 oz. gold coin. 
SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...
ao wrote:
I would stay away from gold bars, especially the larger bars.  One thing you have to consider is how are you going to liquidate your gold and silver when the time comes.  You can only insure shipments up to $25,000.  A 32.15 oz. "kilo" gold bar, for example, is worth much more than that.  That means if you ship the bar back and it is lost or stolen (admittedly, a very remote possibility), you will only be able to recover $25,000 in insurance.  Also, with the larger gold bars, the potential for counterfeiting increases.  In addition, the possibility of finding a buyer with the large amount of cash needed to buy a larger bar is far more remote than the possibility of finding a buyer for a 1 oz. gold coin. 

I only wish I had the problem of deciding how to ship/insure a 1 kilo bar of gold...Laughing

earthwise's picture
earthwise
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Re: Gold or Silver "Rounds" vs. Eagles, Loonies, ...

 

ao,

GREAT info-quite helpful.

Thanks

ao's picture
ao
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boulderdash
danielfisher wrote:

It is a fact that the value of gold in the market never diminishes.

Just for the record for any new folks coming along, no, it's not a fact, it's spam.  The value of gold can definitely diminish.

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reachout888
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What About Krugerrands?

Yeah - I feel some degree of sentiment on your part. It would be noteworthy to imply that the Krugerrand started the gold coin campaigns.
Check out this article in my website
In between 1975 and 1985, the United States alone  imported about 22 million gold krugerrand coins which testified to its gold krugerrand worth.  By 1978, the kruggerand gold value has soared. Then the Canadian Maple Leaf began minting their own  in 1979, followed by the Australian Nugget in 1981, then the Chinese Panda came in 1982; in 1986 the American Gold Eagle came into being and ultimately the British Britannia coin in 1987.

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