G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters feel the hard bite of martial law

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G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters feel the hard bite of martial law

I participated in several events during the G-20 protests and saw very little trouble and a strong military presence.  Gun boats, military helicopters, swat teams and an audio cannon (the first time the LRAD series device has been used on civilians in the U.S.).  The paramilitary units were ready for a fight that never materialized, at least not anywhere near the official G-20 protests. 

I had my End the Fed banner and regalia (I was disappointed that there were so few "End the Fed" protesters).  I only participated in several approved and scheduled events which is a big reason why I didn't see any trouble.  The large G-20 march on Friday was the last protest event scheduled.  The march was well organized and very orderly, I don't think there were any arrests. 

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - The greatest potential for tragedy occurred Friday, when several thousand marchers walked for miles through militarized streets, often inches away from baton-wielding police encased in body armor.  Not a pane of glass was broken.

"I got to tell you," Huss said, "to have a parade from Oakland to the North Side like we did, and not have any damage is a credit to the protesters and those that were in that march, and our police agencies."

After 48 hours as one of the biggest targets in the world, Pittsburgh emerged Saturday morning looking no worse than it does after a Steelers Super Bowl victory. The masses didn't storm the gates. Terrorists didn't strike. The city didn't burn.

A lower-than-expected influx of protesters meant police had the guns and the numbers. About 6,000 officers deployed throughout the city, compared to 5,000 protesters. Crime was "way, way down" during the summit, he said.

The G-20 attendees were whisked out of town as their event officially ended early Friday.  The Friday march was the last G-20 event, it ended peacefully but the worst was about to happen Friday night.  

Most of the problems occurred outside the "downtown area", six miles from the summit, on the college campus of the University of Pittsburgh.  On Thursday, the students found themselves in the midst of a huge military siege as waves of paramilitary police swarmed onto the campus and through-out the Oakland area (Carnegie Mellon University, Carlow and Chatam colleges are also in Oakland).  Nothing illegal happened that would necessitate dispatching paramilitary riot squads.  They were sent anticipating trouble - a self fulfilling strategy.

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - A clash between protesters and police escalated Thursday night in Oakland as curious University of Pittsburgh students ventured to the demonstration. The protest began near Schenley Plaza at about 9 p.m. and moved throughout Oakland. Police arrested 42 people, bringing the total number of those arrested during the G-20 to 66.

As of Thursday, 42 of the total 66 arrested were almost all students on or by their campuses - away from the G-20.

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - Authorities arrested 110 protesters in Oakland on Friday night during a demonstration that participants described as a stand against police brutality.

The late-night standoff came after police arrested more than 60 people Thursday night during demonstrations that turned violent on Forbes Avenue by the University of Pittsburgh. It also brought the total arrests during the Group of 20 summit to 193.

"This is a rally against police brutality," said Tom Judd, 24, of Rhode Island. "The police were very aggressive here (Thursday)."

Out of the total 193 people arrested, 152 of them were virtually all young students arrested on or by their campus.  Most of them were arrested after the G-20 - they were not protesting the G-20, they were protesting against police brutality -  that's the real story that needs to be told.

PITTSBURGH POST GAZETTE - At the park, he said, "People were playing duck-duck-goose and talking. Mostly, I think people were there because the events that had happened the night before ... " he said.

"We weren't doing anything. We weren't confronting them. We weren't even protesting." He said the police didn't give the order to disperse "until they had surrounded most of the park." Many people then left. He said a group was pushed across Forbes Avenue and into the Cathedral of Learning lawn. He said some were turned away by police on Fifth Avenue.

"No matter where you went, there was no way to leave," he said. "A lot of people were saying, 'I'm just trying to leave.'

Drew Singer, editor of the student newspaper The Pitt News, watched the events from a window in the William Pitt Union, which has a view of Schenley Plaza. Two Pitt News photographers were among those arrested.  "There were way more police than there were civilians, nonpolice," he said.  

While there may have been protesters, he said, "I personally didn't see a single protester.  "We kept asking them how we could leave, or if we could leave," she said. "Most of them were unresponsive. Some of them just said no."  She was on a police wagon and then a bus for about five hours without water or a bathroom break, though many girls with her were asking for both, she said.

"A few police officers were nice," she said, "but for the most part, they were not."  She said one of the officers was "taking a lot of pride" in taking mug shots next to female detainees, and that other officers frequently used profanities specifically derogatory to women.

The sad part is that there is so little outrage.  Hordes of paramilitary police were cut lose on our sons and daughters under the brutality of an unnecessary martial law.  Are we de-sensitized and ambivalent to police violence and martial law?  When I see the images of innocent, young girls being gassed and roughly subdued it makes me feel ill in a way that's hard to describe.

The moral fabric of our society is coming undone.  We no longer care that we are enslaving our children and future generations to debt that they will never be able to repay.  We don't seem to mind that college students have become the victims of police brutality.  No one bothers counting  the number of young American's coming home from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in coffins yet alone the massive amount of foreigners were are killing.  Will we ever take a moral stand?

Larry

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Have You No Shame?

[ Ed. Note: It is our policy to encourage all users to flag posts which they find objectionable, and it is inappropriate to rebuke the community for having flagged a post.]

. . . This is news . . . cold, hard news, to be sure, but we not only have videotapes of these activities and news reports from multiple press sources, but also an eyewitness account by someone, whom we know, who was there.  Larry should be commended for bringing this evidence of the threats to our freedom to our attention . . . and his courage in stating the obvious connection between our circumstances and moral decay should be applauded . . . . Shame on all of you who choose to look the other way . . . You're no better than people who walk past a beaten man, lying in the gutter . . . . "Don't get involved", you tell yourselves . . . .

For heaven's sake, Look at yourselves, People!

 

 

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Re: Have You No Shame?

[ Ed. Note: Removed post complaining that a previous post was flagged.  It is our policy to encourage all users to flag posts which they find objectionable, and it is not appropriate to rebuke the community for having flagged a post.]

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Humor?

Question:  How many people does it take to resist tyranny in the twenty-first century?

Answer:  We don't know . . . It was never tried . . . .

 

 

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Re: Have You No Shame?
C1oudfire wrote:

[ Ed. Note: Removed post complaining that a previous post was flagged.  It is our policy to encourage all users to flag posts which they find objectionable, and it is not appropriate to rebuke the community for having flagged a post.]

With the utmost humility, and profound respect for the moderator, I submit that it may not be allowed, but from a moral standpoint, it is appropriate . . . Indignation, when confronted with willful attempts to suppress useful, accurate information that may support us in protecting our freedoms is a normal, healthy response of an honest, freedom loving individual. 

 

 

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

  When I see the images of innocent, young girls being gassed and roughly subdued it makes me feel ill in a way that's hard to describe.

 

Larry,

The whole scene nauseates me as it is nothing more than oppression and intimidation. 

The scenes with the young women enrage me, I am not sure why moreso than the ones with men, but it does.  As I viewed the various clips from the G20, I think ironically of Lee Greenwood's "Proud To Be An American."  The nausea grows.

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
MarkM wrote:

The scenes with the young women enrage me, I am not sure why moreso than the ones with men, but it does. 

Hi, Mark;

I can't say that I feel rage, but I do feel disgust.  What a cowardly way to behave . . .  Conveniently, the face shields of riot police obscure their faces, so that one cannot even see them, face-to-face . . . Depersonalization is important to the process  . . . One actually wonders if they are human anymore . . . .  Video clips like this make me give Icke's reptilian hypothesis a second look, lol.

 

 

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

C1oudfire,

I feel disgust, sadness, loss, betrayal and, yes, rage.  The scenes we see from "protests" continue to show an escalation from the law enforcement sector. This is not a comforting trend, in my eyes.

The videos of the overwhelming numbers of these faceless automatons is truly chilling.

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
MarkM wrote:

C1oudfire,

I feel disgust, sadness, loss, betrayal and, yes, rage.  The scenes we see from "protests" continue to show an escalation from the law enforcement sector. This is not a comforting trend, in my eyes.

The videos of the overwhelming numbers of these faceless automatons is truly chilling.

Hi, Mark;

I have long been aware of the malevolent intent of powerful entities . . . But I don't think I'll ever . . . . Nay, I hope that I'll never get used to the passivity with which people accept oppression in exchange for moral license . . . . When I see these clips, and witness the lack of outrage, in response to them, I feel ashamed of my fellow Americans, in particular, and of the human race in general . . . . And that does not except this community, at the moment . . . Where is everybody?  Hovering over their nest eggs?  Shame . . . . is what I feel . . . . I'm ashamed of the riot police, who haven't the moral fortitude to know better than to manhandle a petite young woman who is harming no one.  I'm ashamed of the people who stand by, and watch it happen.  And I'm most ashamed of people who distort and supress information like this . . . .

 

 

 

 

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A suggestion for the moderators regarding flagging of posts

My 2 Cents...

http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/suggestion-moderators-regarding-flagging-posts/28400

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As there has been some angst recently concering the flagging of posts I suggest the following.

I can understand the flagging of post that contain personal attacks, banned subject matter, inaccurate or totally off topic subject matter.

Yes and there is a section for 'controversial subjects'.

But the flagging of posts that contain factual, relevant information has me somewhat perplexed.

The post I'm refering to is concering the G20 meeting in Pittsburg.

http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/g-20-pittsburgh-summit-americas-sons-and-daughters-feel-hard-bite-martial-law/28377

Now I know the emphasis of the website are the three 'E's and based upon that very premise I would have thought almost nothing could indeed be more 'on topic' than the G20... why?

What is the G-20?

"The Group of Twenty (G-20) Finance Ministers and Central Bank Governors was established in 1999 to bring together systemically important industrialized and developing economies to discuss key issues in the global economy."

Now some may argue that the the title of Larry's post "G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters feel the hard bite of martial law" was, in itself, controversial. But the reality is parts of Pittsburg were indeed under effective martial law and I have seen the footage of University students being targeted by the security forces while on their own campus.

From what I have seen, I would have to say very few people actually deserved the treament they received as, for the most part, they did not appear to be antagonising the police or military. I didn't see anything that could have been considered rioting.

If Larry's post was flagged because it was considered controversial then I guess any post that mentions Government control by Wall Street or insider trading or 'The Feds' vanishing trillions or Chris Dodd receiving special deals from Countrywide should also be flagged... YES?... NO?

Well aren't they controversial topics too?... AND  extremely relevant to this fundamental subject matter if this site?

As for Cloudfire's post concering her objection to the 'flagging' then being deleted.

http://www.peakprosperity.com/comment/52363#comment-52363

This, to me, was even more disturbing than the flagging itself.

"It is our policy to encourage all users to flag posts which they find objectionable, and it is not appropriate to rebuke the community for having flagged a post."

Answer me this... is it reasonable for the community to not know why a post was flagged especially if it was flagged by just one person and the rest of the community has not objected to the post? Especially if that post is then deleted or removed to the 'dungeon'?

Anyway here is my suggestion.

NOTE: The exception to this is if the post has clearly violated the rules then of course the moderators should take action irrespective whether the post was flagged or not.

If someone wishes to 'flag' a post they should be required to give a reason why and that reason should be included as part of the flagging for all registered users to see.

Up to this point the 'flagger' can remain anonymous.

Then the members should vote whether they deem the flagging resonable or not.

If it is decided the 'flagging' is justified  then the moderators can either delete, or remove the post to the CT thread.

If the flagging is deemed by the majority to be unreasonable then the flaggers indentity should be revealed.

Not in order to be chastised, but just to ensure that if you really believe you are justified to flag a post then don't hide because it doesn't give the (original) poster a right of reply and it approaches a 'kangaroo court' kind of mentality.

Hopefully this should prevent a few from simply flagging a post just because it irks them, but doesn't actually break any of the rules.

I don't think there are enough flagged posts to cause too much work for anybody and this procedure, if anything, should ensure against frivolous flagging of posts and thus reduce the frequency of them.

rowmat

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

Thank you Larry for giving us this info.

I remember growing up watching movies where the Nazi's or Soviet's would stop people and ask for their "Papers" and think what sort of crazy world that these other people live in.  It is now happening before our eyes and our so called "Free Press" is out to lunch.

It also reminds me of Tiananmen Square in 1989.  Can you imagine how much damage this stuff does to the US's reputation and how much play these videos will be getting in places like Russia, North Korea, or China?

I weep for my country!

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

Somebody please wake me up & tell me all this is just a really bad dream!!

C1oudfire QUOTE in another thread:

Sorry, doc . . . . Welcome to Hell in real time . . . .

C1oudfire you can say that again.....sad really sad.

I remember growing up watching movies were the Nazi's or Soviets would stop people and ask for their "Papers" and think what sort of crazy world that these other people live in.  It is now happening before our eyes and our so called "Free Press" is out to lunch.

It also reminds me of Tiananmen Square in 1989.  Can you imagine how much damage this stuff does to the US's reputation and much play these videos will be getting in places like Russia, North Korea, or China?

I weep for my country!

+1

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

This is going to be allowed to go only so far.  Have faith that honorable, capable, intelligent, and brave people in the United States Armed Forces are monitoring the situation and will not permit their country to degrade to a third world status at the hands of greedy corrupt Central Bankers.  Up to this point, America had been a driving force for invention, innovation, progress and growth in the world, but those who seek to build the metaphorical "New World Order " now regard America, and especially it's middle class, as an impediment to their authoritarian rule.  Be patient, vigilant, and prepared to join and fight with and for our brothers and sisters in America.  Unitied States national identity, and sovereignty will never be forsaken or forgotten.  As Jefferson reminds us, the tree of liberty is refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrannts.

 

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
RedShift wrote:

This is going to be allowed to go only so far.  Have faith that honorable, capable, intelligent, and brave people in the United States Armed Forces are monitoring the situation and will not permit their country to degrade to a third world status at the hands of greedy corrupt Central Bankers.  Up to this point, America had been a driving force for invention, innovation, progress and growth in the world, but those who seek to build the metaphorical "New World Order " now regard America, and especially it's middle class, as an impediment to their authoritarian rule.  Be patient, vigilant, and prepared to join and fight with and for our brothers and sisters in America.  Unitied States national identity, and sovereignty will never be forsaken or forgotten.  As Jefferson reminds us, the tree of liberty is refreshed with the blood of patriots and tyrannts.

 

Faith, I've got . . . I want to see action . . . a willingness to make sacrifices for freedom . . . To stand down, and refuse to carry out immoral and illegal orders . . . To be willing to sacrifice that paycheck and cushy pension, for freedom . . . I'm tired of talk . . . Just the other day, I nearly lost my lunch when someone who routinely suppresses the truth about what is happening in this country waxed eloquent about how seriously he took his oath to uphold our constitution.  I'm tired of what they say . . . . I'm looking at what they do . . .

 

 

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

I don't like to be the pessimist, but I study trends in politics, economics, the environment, and cultures. And the trends are for a strengthening and intensifying of a police state in America, home of the "free and brave." The intrinsic value of people continues to disintegrate; our mainstream culture mocks compassion for the less fortunate and rewards those who rape and plunder. My wife is from Brazil. She has numerous stories to tell of the way she has been treated simply because she has an accent. She can attest to the dehumanizing and cold communities we have created in American suburbia because it is not an environment she grew up in. Sad to say, but I wish I could go back in time 60 years.

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
xraymike79 wrote:

I don't like to be the pessimist, but I study trends in politics, economics, the environment, and cultures. And the trends are for a strengthening and intensifying of a police state in America, home of the "free and brave." The intrinsic value of people continues to disintegrate; our mainstream culture mocks compassion for the less fortunate and rewards those who rape and plunder. My wife is from Brazil. She has numerous stories to tell of the way she has been treated simply because she has an accent. She can attest to the dehumanizing and cold communities we have created in American suburbia because it is not an environment she grew up in. Sad to say, but I wish I could go back in time 60 years.

Xray,

Perhaps the best is yet to come. We may return to a more humanizing way of life after all. After all of the s%*$ has hit the fan that is. And it may arrive long before another 60 years comes to pass.

I think what our civilization is about to experience has no historical precedent but that some percentage will survive the downsizing from the greatest bubble of them all ..... the fossil fuels bubble. Hopefully we will lose the racist attitudes in the process.

Coop

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Re: A suggestion for the moderators regarding flagging of ...
rowmat wrote:

NOTE: The exception to this is if the post has clearly violated the rules then of course the moderators should take action irrespective whether the post was flagged or not.

If someone wishes to 'flag' a post they should be required to give a reason why and that reason should be included as part of the flagging for all registered users to see.

Up to this point the 'flagger' can remain anonymous.

Then the members should vote whether they deem the flagging resonable or not.

If it is decided the 'flagging' is justified  then the moderators can either delete, or remove the post to the CT thread.

If the flagging is deemed by the majority to be unreasonable then the flaggers indentity should be revealed.

Not in order to be chastised, but just to ensure that if you really believe you are justified to flag a post then don't hide because it doesn't give the (original) poster a right of reply and it approaches a 'kangaroo court' kind of mentality.

rowmat

Firstly, thank you so much, Larry, for not only this post, but having the courage to attend the rally in person. Am slowly learning it is becoming harder to receive trusted and factual information.

Secondly, I fully agree with Rowmat's comments above. Under the current situation unknown members with possible questionable motives have the ability to sensor information that so many people come to this site to receive. We may assume there are some registered here with alternative motives, and blocking truth is an important one to prevent.

Perhaps there is a way in Rowmat's suggestion to ascertain the flaggers true intentions (after multiple flags)?

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

I participated in several events during the G-20 protests and saw very little trouble and a strong military presence.  Gun boats, military helicopters, swat teams and an audio cannon (the first time the LRAD series device has been used on civilians in the U.S.).  The paramilitary units were ready for a fight that never materialized, at least not anywhere near the official G-20 protests. 

I had my End the Fed banner and regalia (I was disappointed that there were so few "End the Fed" protesters).  I only participated in several approved and scheduled events which is a big reason why I didn't see any trouble.  The large G-20 march on Friday was the last protest event scheduled.  The march was well organized and very orderly, I don't think there were any arrests. 

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - The greatest potential for tragedy occurred Friday, when several thousand marchers walked for miles through militarized streets, often inches away from baton-wielding police encased in body armor.  Not a pane of glass was broken.

"I got to tell you," Huss said, "to have a parade from Oakland to the North Side like we did, and not have any damage is a credit to the protesters and those that were in that march, and our police agencies."

After 48 hours as one of the biggest targets in the world, Pittsburgh emerged Saturday morning looking no worse than it does after a Steelers Super Bowl victory. The masses didn't storm the gates. Terrorists didn't strike. The city didn't burn.

A lower-than-expected influx of protesters meant police had the guns and the numbers. About 6,000 officers deployed throughout the city, compared to 5,000 protesters. Crime was "way, way down" during the summit, he said.

Larry -

First off, I looked everywhere and couldn't find where the Governor of Pennsylvania had declared Martial Law and Mobilized the Guard.  I must have missed your link to that information.???

Regarding forces present - were they REALLY military or were they Secret Service, FBI and riot police providing security for the G-20?  Your post states that a "strong military presence" was assembled and "paramilitary units were ready".  How many readers understand the difference between military and paramilitary and were you deliberately trying to blur them together?

 

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

The G-20 attendees were whisked out of town as their event officially ended early Friday.  The Friday march was the last G-20 event, it ended peacefully but the worst was about to happen Friday night.  

Most of the problems occurred outside the "downtown area", six miles from the summit, on the college campus of the University of Pittsburgh.  On Thursday, the students found themselves in the midst of a huge military siege as waves of paramilitary police swarmed onto the campus and through-out the Oakland area (Carnegie Mellon University, Carlow and Chatam colleges are also in Oakland).  Nothing illegal happened that would necessitate dispatching paramilitary riot squads.  They were sent anticipating trouble - a self fulfilling strategy.

Really Larry????  A "huge military seige"?????  By the police?  Or was it a huge police seige?  Or was it riot police deploying to where people were beginning to concentrate (for whatever reason?)  The article you cite states that there was a "lower than expected influx of protestors" so it seems reasonable to expect there were more police than protestors.  Given the violence seen elsewhere in past G20 summits, up to this point I think you should be giving the police departments credit for planning.

Gosh, but were they really police or were they the military called up when the Governor declared Martial Law?

The following quoted section is the part of your post that I wholeheartedly agree is accurate and should be thoroughly investigated.  Depending on what is found out the offending officers should be terminated without pay and subjected to due process and civil and criminal investigation.  Sure sounds to me like the police were way over the line with their actions.  But why make a distinction between men and women.  Some of the posters have expressed outrage over the way frail and petite women were treated.  How about the way strapping young 225 pound men - American citizens all - were treated?  Isn't that the real issue? 

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - A clash between protesters and police escalated Thursday night in Oakland as curious University of Pittsburgh students ventured to the demonstration. The protest began near Schenley Plaza at about 9 p.m. and moved throughout Oakland. Police arrested 42 people, bringing the total number of those arrested during the G-20 to 66.

As of Thursday, 42 of the total 66 arrested were almost all students on or by their campuses - away from the G-20.

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - Authorities arrested 110 protesters in Oakland on Friday night during a demonstration that participants described as a stand against police brutality.

The late-night standoff came after police arrested more than 60 people Thursday night during demonstrations that turned violent on Forbes Avenue by the University of Pittsburgh. It also brought the total arrests during the Group of 20 summit to 193.

"This is a rally against police brutality," said Tom Judd, 24, of Rhode Island. "The police were very aggressive here (Thursday)."

Out of the total 193 people arrested, 152 of them were virtually all young students arrested on or by their campus.  Most of them were arrested after the G-20 - they were not protesting the G-20, they were protesting against police brutality -  that's the real story that needs to be told.

PITTSBURGH POST GAZETTE - At the park, he said, "People were playing duck-duck-goose and talking. Mostly, I think people were there because the events that had happened the night before ... " he said.

"We weren't doing anything. We weren't confronting them. We weren't even protesting." He said the police didn't give the order to disperse "until they had surrounded most of the park." Many people then left. He said a group was pushed across Forbes Avenue and into the Cathedral of Learning lawn. He said some were turned away by police on Fifth Avenue.

"No matter where you went, there was no way to leave," he said. "A lot of people were saying, 'I'm just trying to leave.'

Drew Singer, editor of the student newspaper The Pitt News, watched the events from a window in the William Pitt Union, which has a view of Schenley Plaza. Two Pitt News photographers were among those arrested.  "There were way more police than there were civilians, nonpolice," he said.  

While there may have been protesters, he said, "I personally didn't see a single protester.  "We kept asking them how we could leave, or if we could leave," she said. "Most of them were unresponsive. Some of them just said no."  She was on a police wagon and then a bus for about five hours without water or a bathroom break, though many girls with her were asking for both, she said.

"A few police officers were nice," she said, "but for the most part, they were not."  She said one of the officers was "taking a lot of pride" in taking mug shots next to female detainees, and that other officers frequently used profanities specifically derogatory to women.

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

The sad part is that there is so little outrage.  Hordes of paramilitary police were cut lose on our sons and daughters under the brutality of an unnecessary martial law.  Are we de-sensitized and ambivalent to police violence and martial law?  When I see the images of innocent, young girls being gassed and roughly subdued it makes me feel ill in a way that's hard to describe.

The moral fabric of our society is coming undone.  We no longer care that we are enslaving our children and future generations to debt that they will never be able to repay.  We don't seem to mind that college students have become the victims of police brutality.  No one bothers counting  the number of young American's coming home from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in coffins yet alone the massive amount of foreigners were are killing.  Will we ever take a moral stand?

Larry

Again - you state that "Hordes of paramilitary police were cut lose on our sons and daughters under the brutality of an unnecessary martial law".  When exactly was martial law declared in Pittsburgh?  When Larry?  "Hordes"?  "Cut lose"? [sic]  A little overly dramatic don't you think?  I didn't read in any of the newspaper accounts where "hordes" of anything were cut loose.  How did the Tribune and Gazette reporters miss that?

You were there Larry, at least for part of it, and you stated that you saw no trouble or arrests and that the march was well organized and orderly.  You also state that you thought so because these events were approved and scheduled.  So extrapolating, one could expect trouble and arrests at "events" that were not approved and "events" that were unscheduled.  You mean like the "events" in past G20 protests?  Aren't those the kind of "events" you want the police (paramilitary or otherwise) assembled for?  I would think so.

But the actions of a few/some/many police were wrong - and they should be held accountable for their actions.

You were there for part of it and should be commended for doing so.  And we appreciate your observations.  I don't get the righteous indignation of the others who weren't there.  I guess they feel good about themselves by venting in a blog.  Wow, that's leaning forward in the foxhole isn't it?  If it really enrages you get out, organize a protest in your community against the police brutality in Pittsburgh and put your money where your mouth is.

The Review and Gazette accounts of police brutality following the G20 are troubling.  What is also troubling is your exaggeration and fabrication - why did you knowingly make a statement in your post that you knew was untrue?  At no time was civil authority in Pittsburgh suspended and Martial Law declared - you and I both know that - and to deliberately state it as a fact in in your post is misleading and quite simply, a lie.

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
RedShift wrote:

Have faith that honorable, capable, intelligent, and brave people in the United States Armed Forces are monitoring the situation and will not permit their country to degrade to a third world status at the hands of greedy corrupt Central Bankers. 

RedShift -

Appreciate the sentiment, and rest assured it will be as you state.  Are you by any chance still active or retired and just confident in what you were taught and trained in wrt the Oath?

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

  I don't get the righteous indignation of the others who weren't there.  I guess they feel good about themselves by venting in a blog.  Wow, that's leaning forward in the foxhole isn't it?  If it really enrages you get out, organize a protest in your community against the police brutality in Pittsburgh and put your money where your mouth is.

Dogs,

Since I am the one that used the term enraged I feel i should respond here.  I do work locally on issues where i think police force is out of line.  If one thinks that getting people behind Dr. Martensen's ideas is a tough slog, try getting support for going against the police department in your area.  I would be an 'army of one" on the G20 police (FBI, DEA, ATF - 6,000 reported officers - where do this many come from?) issue. Try finding someone that even knows what the G20 meeting is.  If they have knowledge of it, the picture they have is "anarchists' burning cars and getting what they deserve by the riot police.

You make some valid points in your post.  i don't know why the actions against females bother me more.  It does, though.  Maybe it just seems somehow more "wrong' to me personally.

While we can discuss the specific language and terms used to describe the event, it is the trend of these occurrences that concern me.  They just seem to be getting less human as time goes by. 

Using the term military may be incorrrect.  However, I don't think paramilitary is off the mark.  What we see here certainly does not give the appearance of the Pittsburgh police protecting the city.

Mark

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Transparent . . .

[quote=Dogs]

First off, I looked everywhere and couldn't find where the Governor of Pennsylvania had declared Martial Law and Mobilized the Guard.  I must have missed your link to that information.???

[/quote]

Declared or not, when civil rights and personal freedoms are suspended to protect elite (G-20) attendees from a perceived "threat", it is de facto martial law.  I doubt that those who felt the bite of the baton care whether the declaration was formal or not  . . .

[quote=Dogs]

Regarding forces present - were they REALLY military or were they Secret Service, FBI and riot police providing security for the G-20?  Your post states that a "strong military presence" was assembled and "paramilitary units were ready".  How many readers understand the difference between military and paramilitary and were you deliberately trying to blur them together?

[/quote]

What does it matter?  They were trained personnel, heavily armored, armed, organized, with faces obscured by shields, behaving in a manner intended to intimidate, and they brutalized innocent citizens . . . . They were there to protect a globalist organization from vocalization of protest to their agenda . . . The rest is semantics . . . If you want to understand the truth watch what they do, not what they say . . .  

[quote=Dogs]

But why make a distinction between men and women.  Some of the posters have expressed outrage over the way frail and petite women were treated.  How about the way strapping young 225 pound men - American citizens all - were treated?  Isn't that the real issue? 

[/quote]

Anyone with a residual sense of decency knows that there is a difference between an armed and armored man, or a gang of men, taking on a petite woman, and a man taking on another man . . . . Yes, it is also wrong for armed men to attack unarmed innocent men . . . . But to not recognize the difference in the character of brutally attacking a 120 pound woman and attacking a 225 pound man, one-on-one is to ignore the cowardice and depravity that make such behavior enjoyable for the sociopath and the wife-beater . . . and it lacks appreciation of good men's long historical role of protecting women and children . . . With very rare exception, callousness toward the vulnerability of women and children is a hallmark of depraved societies . . . and depraved individuals.  That's why "wife beater" is a common phrase, and "husband beater" sounds absurd . . . It is the gratuitous willingness to take the advantage of one's physical prowess to dominate those who are weaker that makes the wife beater repugnant . . . and it is a perfect metaphor for the globalists . . .

[quote=Dogs]

I don't get the righteous indignation of the others who weren't there.  I guess they feel good about themselves by venting in a blog.  Wow, that's leaning forward in the foxhole isn't it?  If it really enrages you get out, organize a protest in your community against the police brutality in Pittsburgh and put your money where your mouth is.

[/quote]

Dogs, you would be the last person who would know what persons who oppose the globalist agenda are doing . . . You're not exactly in our confidence . . . .

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

Dogs,

You and I have had our issues but have come out ok.  On this one I have to say, you're biased attitude is getting in the way of reality.  The attitude you're portraying is IMO the attitude that will sink this country.  You dissected the original post for what reason?  What did you gain from the dissection?  

The purpose of the original post was to state that the gov't went too far in its actions to protect a group that didn't need protection.  The gov't forces on hand did exactly the opposite of what probably is their most important oath...."Protect the Constitution of the United States".  The right to free speech is part of that Constitution.  Whether there was a formal signing of an order for Martial Law is not relevant.  If the forces institute the state of Martial Law....It's still Martial Law.  

You can take this however you want but I'm meaning it as a constructive criticism......you need to get over yourself.  Your view and opinions are not any more important than others on this forum.  You're not the CM.com police (or military if you prefer).   I've never flagged a post.   I value everyones opinions.  I read what I like and what I don't like.  I would guess that's not the case for you.  

LR

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

I participated in several events during the G-20 protests and saw very little trouble and a strong military presence.  Gun boats, military helicopters, swat teams and an audio cannon (the first time the LRAD series device has been used on civilians in the U.S.).  The paramilitary units were ready for a fight that never materialized, at least not anywhere near the official G-20 protests. 

I had my End the Fed banner and regalia (I was disappointed that there were so few "End the Fed" protesters).  I only participated in several approved and scheduled events which is a big reason why I didn't see any trouble.  The large G-20 march on Friday was the last protest event scheduled.  The march was well organized and very orderly, I don't think there were any arrests. 

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - The greatest potential for tragedy occurred Friday, when several thousand marchers walked for miles through militarized streets, often inches away from baton-wielding police encased in body armor.  Not a pane of glass was broken.

"I got to tell you," Huss said, "to have a parade from Oakland to the North Side like we did, and not have any damage is a credit to the protesters and those that were in that march, and our police agencies."

After 48 hours as one of the biggest targets in the world, Pittsburgh emerged Saturday morning looking no worse than it does after a Steelers Super Bowl victory. The masses didn't storm the gates. Terrorists didn't strike. The city didn't burn.

A lower-than-expected influx of protesters meant police had the guns and the numbers. About 6,000 officers deployed throughout the city, compared to 5,000 protesters. Crime was "way, way down" during the summit, he said.

Larry -

First off, I looked everywhere and couldn't find where the Governor of Pennsylvania had declared Martial Law and Mobilized the Guard.  I must have missed your link to that information.???

Regarding forces present - were they REALLY military or were they Secret Service, FBI and riot police providing security for the G-20?  Your post states that a "strong military presence" was assembled and "paramilitary units were ready".  How many readers understand the difference between military and paramilitary and were you deliberately trying to blur them together?

 

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

The G-20 attendees were whisked out of town as their event officially ended early Friday.  The Friday march was the last G-20 event, it ended peacefully but the worst was about to happen Friday night.  

Most of the problems occurred outside the "downtown area", six miles from the summit, on the college campus of the University of Pittsburgh.  On Thursday, the students found themselves in the midst of a huge military siege as waves of paramilitary police swarmed onto the campus and through-out the Oakland area (Carnegie Mellon University, Carlow and Chatam colleges are also in Oakland).  Nothing illegal happened that would necessitate dispatching paramilitary riot squads.  They were sent anticipating trouble - a self fulfilling strategy.

Really Larry????  A "huge military seige"?????  By the police?  Or was it a huge police seige?  Or was it riot police deploying to where people were beginning to concentrate (for whatever reason?)  The article you cite states that there was a "lower than expected influx of protestors" so it seems reasonable to expect there were more police than protestors.  Given the violence seen elsewhere in past G20 summits, up to this point I think you should be giving the police departments credit for planning.

Gosh, but were they really police or were they the military called up when the Governor declared Martial Law?

The following quoted section is the part of your post that I wholeheartedly agree is accurate and should be thoroughly investigated.  Depending on what is found out the offending officers should be terminated without pay and subjected to due process and civil and criminal investigation.  Sure sounds to me like the police were way over the line with their actions.  But why make a distinction between men and women.  Some of the posters have expressed outrage over the way frail and petite women were treated.  How about the way strapping young 225 pound men - American citizens all - were treated?  Isn't that the real issue? 

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - A clash between protesters and police escalated Thursday night in Oakland as curious University of Pittsburgh students ventured to the demonstration. The protest began near Schenley Plaza at about 9 p.m. and moved throughout Oakland. Police arrested 42 people, bringing the total number of those arrested during the G-20 to 66.

As of Thursday, 42 of the total 66 arrested were almost all students on or by their campuses - away from the G-20.

PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW - Authorities arrested 110 protesters in Oakland on Friday night during a demonstration that participants described as a stand against police brutality.

The late-night standoff came after police arrested more than 60 people Thursday night during demonstrations that turned violent on Forbes Avenue by the University of Pittsburgh. It also brought the total arrests during the Group of 20 summit to 193.

"This is a rally against police brutality," said Tom Judd, 24, of Rhode Island. "The police were very aggressive here (Thursday)."

Out of the total 193 people arrested, 152 of them were virtually all young students arrested on or by their campus.  Most of them were arrested after the G-20 - they were not protesting the G-20, they were protesting against police brutality -  that's the real story that needs to be told.

PITTSBURGH POST GAZETTE - At the park, he said, "People were playing duck-duck-goose and talking. Mostly, I think people were there because the events that had happened the night before ... " he said.

"We weren't doing anything. We weren't confronting them. We weren't even protesting." He said the police didn't give the order to disperse "until they had surrounded most of the park." Many people then left. He said a group was pushed across Forbes Avenue and into the Cathedral of Learning lawn. He said some were turned away by police on Fifth Avenue.

"No matter where you went, there was no way to leave," he said. "A lot of people were saying, 'I'm just trying to leave.'

Drew Singer, editor of the student newspaper The Pitt News, watched the events from a window in the William Pitt Union, which has a view of Schenley Plaza. Two Pitt News photographers were among those arrested.  "There were way more police than there were civilians, nonpolice," he said.  

While there may have been protesters, he said, "I personally didn't see a single protester.  "We kept asking them how we could leave, or if we could leave," she said. "Most of them were unresponsive. Some of them just said no."  She was on a police wagon and then a bus for about five hours without water or a bathroom break, though many girls with her were asking for both, she said.

"A few police officers were nice," she said, "but for the most part, they were not."  She said one of the officers was "taking a lot of pride" in taking mug shots next to female detainees, and that other officers frequently used profanities specifically derogatory to women.

DrKrbyLuv wrote:

The sad part is that there is so little outrage.  Hordes of paramilitary police were cut lose on our sons and daughters under the brutality of an unnecessary martial law.  Are we de-sensitized and ambivalent to police violence and martial law?  When I see the images of innocent, young girls being gassed and roughly subdued it makes me feel ill in a way that's hard to describe.

The moral fabric of our society is coming undone.  We no longer care that we are enslaving our children and future generations to debt that they will never be able to repay.  We don't seem to mind that college students have become the victims of police brutality.  No one bothers counting  the number of young American's coming home from Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan in coffins yet alone the massive amount of foreigners were are killing.  Will we ever take a moral stand?

Larry

Again - you state that "Hordes of paramilitary police were cut lose on our sons and daughters under the brutality of an unnecessary martial law".  When exactly was martial law declared in Pittsburgh?  When Larry?  "Hordes"?  "Cut lose"? [sic]  A little overly dramatic don't you think?  I didn't read in any of the newspaper accounts where "hordes" of anything were cut loose.  How did the Tribune and Gazette reporters miss that?

You were there Larry, at least for part of it, and you stated that you saw no trouble or arrests and that the march was well organized and orderly.  You also state that you thought so because these events were approved and scheduled.  So extrapolating, one could expect trouble and arrests at "events" that were not approved and "events" that were unscheduled.  You mean like the "events" in past G20 protests?  Aren't those the kind of "events" you want the police (paramilitary or otherwise) assembled for?  I would think so.

But the actions of a few/some/many police were wrong - and they should be held accountable for their actions.

You were there for part of it and should be commended for doing so.  And we appreciate your observations.  I don't get the righteous indignation of the others who weren't there.  I guess they feel good about themselves by venting in a blog.  Wow, that's leaning forward in the foxhole isn't it?  If it really enrages you get out, organize a protest in your community against the police brutality in Pittsburgh and put your money where your mouth is.

The Review and Gazette accounts of police brutality following the G20 are troubling.  What is also troubling is your exaggeration and fabrication - why did you knowingly make a statement in your post that you knew was untrue?  At no time was civil authority in Pittsburgh suspended and Martial Law declared - you and I both know that - and to deliberately state it as a fact in in your post is misleading and quite simply, a lie.

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

Thanks for the great comments.  Let me try to address the questions and make a clarification.

Thanks C1oudfire and John99 for the nice comments about my bravery, but just to be clear, I saw very little trouble - I wasn't in Oakland when and where the arrests took place.  The big Friday march began on the edge of Oakland - that was the only time I was there and it was very peaceful.  I have protested a number of times in the past in various cities so I kinda know how to avoid most problems.

Until this event, I always thought that the police were just people doing their jobs and that at least some of them were sympathetic with the cause of freedom and the restoration of our constitution.  After all, they swear an oath to the constitution.

Now the questions:

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

First off, I looked everywhere and couldn't find where the Governor of Pennsylvania had declared Martial Law and Mobilized the Guard.  I must have missed your link to that information.???

Hi Dogs,

The city of Pittsburgh was operating under the suspension of normal constitutional law.  The security procedures and management were solely in the hands of federal authorities. 

FEMA, declared The G-20 Summit scheduled for September 24-25, 2009 in Pittsburgh, PA, has been declared a National Special Security Event (NSSE) by the Secretary of Homeland Security.   Janet Napolitano named the September gathering of world leaders a "National Special Security Event," or NSSE, making the Secret Service the lead agency for security preparations.

A National Special Security Event (NSSE) is a "status declared by the United States Department of Homeland Security (DHS) for certain events, usually because an event may seem like an attractive target for terrorists due to the event's visibility or political connection. An NSSE designation puts the United States Secret Service in charge of security for the event, the Federal Bureau of Investigation in charge of law enforcement activity, and FEMA in charge of recovery management."

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Regarding forces present - were they REALLY military or were they Secret Service, FBI and riot police providing security for the G-20? Your post states that a "strong military presence" was assembled and "paramilitary units were ready". How many readers understand the difference between military and paramilitary and were you deliberately trying to blur them together?

I wasn't deliberately trying to tie them together and yes, the Secret Service, FBI, FEMA, National Guard, Coast Guard, Air Force (reserves I think) were all present.  In addition there were thousands of law enforcement officers, including 3,000 State Troopers...as well as out of state police, such as Maryland’s Baltimore police.  The U.S. Secret Service has been planning the summit’s security since June.

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

A "huge military seige"????? By the police? Or was it a huge police seige? Or was it riot police deploying to where people were beginning to concentrate (for whatever reason?)

You may be right here, I could have the wrong terminology.  What would you call them? 

There were many different uniformed "police" and "national" guard troops or personal.  They wore different uniforms but all looked like something between storm troopers and ninja turtles.  They were obviously well trained and supported as they marched in formations and beat their batons against their shields in in a steady cadence.  They had satellite surveillance and air support to strategically place their forces.

One thing I object to is that they used a tactic here that has been used in other places, that is to surround groups of protesters, cutting off any exit as they did on more than one occasion in Oakland.  An exit should be provided so that people can flee the area rather than face a direct assault from which there is no escape.

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

The article you cite states that there was a "lower than expected influx of protestors" so it seems reasonable to expect there were more police than protestors. Given the violence seen elsewhere in past G20 summits, up to this point I think you should be giving the police departments credit for planning.

First, the police didn't plan this event, they merely "helped" with manpower.  This was a federal operation.  Regardless, the G-20 protesters that I saw were very peaceful and no doubt the heavy force had something to do with that.  

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote: 

Depending on what is found out the offending officers should be terminated without pay and subjected to due process and civil and criminal investigation. Sure sounds to me like the police were way over the line with their actions. But why make a distinction between men and women. Some of the posters have expressed outrage over the way frail and petite women were treated.

We find lot's of agreement here - there should be an investigation and that may happen as civil law suits are being prepared (see below).  As far as "petite" women" are concerned, yes, I think it is appalling that innocent young girls were gassed and roughly treated.  I'm 50 something (I forget which) and no doubt old fashioned.  I have daughters around the same age and think the world is tougher for young women, at least as far as security concerns.  I may be criticized by feminists, but I strongly believe that women deserve more protection than guys, even from the police. 

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Again - you state that "Hordes of paramilitary police were cut lose on our sons and daughters under the brutality of an unnecessary martial law"... "Hordes"? "Cut lose"? [sic] A little overly dramatic don't you think? I didn't read in any of the newspaper accounts where "hordes" of anything were cut loose. How did the Tribune and Gazette reporters miss that?

Guilty as accused - no doubt my wording had some emotion and I wasn't there, so some of my adjectives and verbs may be over the top.  Here is a more recent article with eye witness testimony:

PITTSBURGH POST GAZETTE  - Activists with the Thomas Merton Center and other groups today blasted the police response to a Friday night protest in Oakland following the G-20 summit, calling it a "military-style occupation" that resulted in the gassing and arrest of dozens of bystanders, including students and journalists.

"The police were beating people and gassing people who were wandering out of restaurants . . . wandering out of their dorms," said Nigel Parry, a journalist with Twin Cities Indymedia who came to Pittsburgh from Minnesota for the summit.

Elizabeth Pittinger, executive director of the city's Citizen Police Review Board, said she was "very disturbed" that police had arrested journalists --- including Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reporter Sadie Gurman -- who were there to observe the protest.  "The huge police presence -- it was overwhelming," she said.

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

You were there Larry, at least for part of it, and you stated that you saw no trouble or arrests and that the march was well organized and orderly. You also state that you thought so because these events were approved and scheduled. So extrapolating, one could expect trouble and arrests at "events" that were not approved and "events" that were unscheduled.

I agree, but the issue is not that straight forward.  Last time I checked only a few events were approved.  The city denied at least 10 requests without any reason.  So, is the bigger issue is why was our free speech largely denied?  

I object to having our democracy destroyed as increasingly, our national and personal freedoms are being taken, behind closed doors, by un-accountable and un-elected foreigners.  I disagree with their globalization that has costs us many jobs and industries.  I don't think they have any right discussing what to do with the dollar.    

Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

At no time was civil authority in Pittsburgh suspended and Martial Law declared - you and I both know that - and to deliberately state it as a fact in in your post is misleading and quite simply, a lie.

Civil authority was suspended in Pittsburgh (see above NSSE).  I may disagree with the nuances of terminology, and may have inadvertently misspoke, but I wasn't lying.  I appreciate your comments and have tried to answer politely, reasonably and honestly.

  • The lawsuits are being prepared:

National Lawyers Guild: Cops Run Wild in Pittsburgh -  members witnessed first-hand yesterday the unwarranted display and use of force by police in residential neighborhoods, often far from any protest activity.

Police deployed chemical irritants, including CS gas, and long-range acoustic devices (LRAD) in residential neighborhoods on narrow streets where families and small children were exposed. Scores of riot police formed barricades at many intersections throughout neighborhoods miles away from the downtown area and the David Lawrence Convention Center. Outside the Courtyard Marriott in Shadyside, police deployed smoke bombs in the absence of protest activity, forcing bystanders and hotel residents to flee the area.

Later, while some protests were ending, riot-clad officers surrounded an area at the University of Pittsburgh, creating an ominous spectacle that some described as akin to Kent State. Guild legal observers witnessed police chasing and arresting many uninvolved students.  Among other questionable tactics, officers from dozens of law enforcement agencies lacked easily-identifiable badges, impeding citizens' ability to register complaints.

In Pittsburgh yesterday, "By midnight, hundreds of police in riot gear moved down Forbes Avenue. With no obvious protesters in sight, they sprayed pepper gas on passersby and even students looking down from the balconies of their residences above the avenue...We were just looking, then there were loud sirens and then it was hard to breathe and I was coughing up a lung,' said student Dustin DeMeglio, 19, who was watching as police moved by his apartment building."

Larry

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

Ahhh.....the joys of statism in action.

I guess we'll get to enjoy more and more of this as we move forward

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

Larry -

We may disagree from time to time, but I ALWAYS respect the manner in which you do so. 

Thanks for the additional info on NSSE - I checked the links and still can't find anything that states where constitutional law was abrogated in Pittsburgh.  I see where the Secret Service is in charge of security planning, and during a NSSE, DoD personnel may augment Secret Service, FBI and local peace officers, but that does not necessarily mean a de jure Martial Law scenario.  Federal forces - SS, FBI, FEMA - are not DoD.  That may be splitting hairs - here's a better discussion:  http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_mlaw.html

The Wiki link for NSSE also shows that a citation is needed regarding military presence, but given the scope of the G20 event, I don't doubt there were ATs present.  I do know that for some of the other NSSE events listed on the Wiki page, military command centers were either stood up or augmented, although not necessarily on-site, just in case.

Here's one thought for your consideration on the police officers present, who have been been collectively demonized by some.  Was the behavior of some/few/many abhorrent?  Yes.  Should it be investigated?  Absolutely.  Should the offending officers be punished?  You bet.  Did all of them do it?  No.

My guess is that for the vast majority of them, the thoughts running through their heads was along the lines of "Dear God, I hope nothing bad happens today and I get to go home to husband/wife and my family." and not "Which one of these kids can I bust on."

Why don't we ever read about the good things peace officers do day in and day out?  99% of us take what they do every day for granted - and there are a number among us who are quick to jump on the bandwagon of criticism when the actions of a few are reported. 

And finally, I regret my use of the word lie - you didn't deserve that, and I apologize. 

Like I said before, we disagree on a lot of things, but you have always been civil and when we do get across the breakers with each other, we fix it.  Too bad others can't conduct themselves the way you do.

BTW - sorry about the Steelers, but c'mon, the Bengals?????  Laughing

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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

[Ed. note:  This post will remain visible so that users will know what has been moderated.  This is a non-constructive comment.  In fact it is negative and destructive.  Encouraging contention and division when users are trying to find common ground can't do anything but harm, and it has nothing to do with discussion of real issues.  This is not acceptable posting behavior.]

So nice to see you guys kissing and making up  . . . After all, The Community is so much more important than morality or truth . . . . Undecided.


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Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

Dogs is good by me, but I'm not kissing anyone with Alpo breath.  

From my perspective he agreed on many issues (investigate any wrong doing) but he wanted a better understanding of the terminology that I used incorrectly.  He brought up an important issue that adds to the conversation.  What are the differences between martial law and a "National Special Security Event" (NSSE)?  Should we have such a thing?

  • Many of us were reminded before the march on Friday that an NSSE was in effect so don't get arrested or if you do, forget your expected legal process - your charges can quickly become serious.
  • The National Press Photographers Association (NPPA) warned photojournalists who will be covering the upcoming G20 Summit in Pittsburgh, PA...The Summit has been classified as a National Special Security Event. Security will be coordinated by the Secret Service working in conjunction with Pittsburgh police...photojournalists are just as eligible for arrest as anyone else on the streets, including protesters and other civilians.
  • FOX news 2006 - A new provision tucked into the Patriot Act bill now before Congress would allow authorities to haul demonstrators at any "special event of national significance" away to jail on felony charges if they are caught breaching a security perimeter.  "It's definitely problematic and chilling," said Lisa Graves, senior counsel for legislative strategy at the American Civil Liberties Union , which has written letters to the chairmen and ranking members of the House and Senate Judiciary Committees, pointing out that the provision wasn't subject to hearings or open debate.

The bigger issue that I neglected to discuss is why the G-20 Summit is a meeting and process that we should all object to as Americans and anyone who believes in inalienable rights and values freedom.  The G-7 became the G-8 and now it's the G-20.  It is at the core, a meeting in which central banks restructure national and international financial regulations while simultaneously restructuring governments.

I wish I could explain it in a long post, but I can't.  Instead, I'll offer a video series that runs over an hour.  The gal is a less than a dynamic speaker but her research, graphs and quotes are well documented - few theories - lot's of facts.  I think she does a fantastic job explaining the past and present.  That said, her conclusion in the last video is weak and a good fast forward.

I've posted it in the "Controversial Topics -- Enter at Your Own Risk!" and here is the link - Joan Veon When Central Banks Rule the World.

Larry

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rowmat
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 15 2008
Posts: 358
It's probably just a matter of time before...

... the authorites corden off the entire Wall Street precinct to keep the pillaged masses away from the bloated banksters and traders of specialised financial instruments of mass destruction! Undecided

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idoctor
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 1731
Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

r's picture
r
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 262
Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

From waging nonviolence site.  Embedded videos of men wearing camo abducting a protester, Long Range Acoustic Device (LRAD) being used against protesters, and what appears to be an unprovoked attack by police on U of Pitt students:

http://wagingnonviolence.org/2009/09/harsh-new-police-tactics-on-display...

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VeganDB12
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 18 2008
Posts: 757
Re: G-20 Pittsburgh Summit - America's sons and daughters ...

I agree with Dogs on this one (not that anyone asked).  A few rabble rousers show up to these demonstratioins (I am involved in activism activities and know these events are a draw for some violent types amongst the good) along with a lot of good well meaning people.  The recent post on violent activism in Mexico (attributed to HLS but who knows yet) is a good case in point.

I think one way to assess the behavior of the police is to ask ourselves, how would we want it handled if protests were LITERALLY on our own front yards.   As in, there are a thousand protestors on your street.  Do you want the police there and how do you want them to protect you and the protestors?

 

I do not agree with harming innocent people and I fully support free speech, but not violence.  Perhaps the protestors were a little naive.  There is an obvious disconnect between accusing the police of being fascist and then expecting them to be nice during a demonstration.....

 

Again, I say this out of real concern for what happens, I am from Pennsylvania and am sorry to see this go on in my home state.  I do not have any answers here. 

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