Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological observations

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Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
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Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological observations

Ok to preface this, this is not an attack on anyone, nor intended inflamatory, I don't think anything less of anyone, it's just some observations I've been making while tracking the content of these threads and the spread of the Flu. This is to make us all re-evaluate our thought processes and reactions, which are the first things we need to survive regardless of the circumstances. So with that I'll enter the actual content.

Quote:

"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it. Fifteen hundred years ago everybody knew the Earth was the center of the universe. Five hundred years ago, everybody knew the Earth was flat, and fifteen minutes ago, you knew that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll know tomorrow."

K (from Men in Black)

So here we all are on Chris Martenson's site, logging our thoughts on the forums his web site provides, discussing issues on the coming crash, preparing for the future world, after that crash (or TSHTF). We know something nasty (maybe big or maybe small) in some form is coming, we know that we need to do something, we know that we can see it through. Question I'm asking is though can we.

So in a way TSHTF this week, and what did we all do? Here are the threads currently on the first page of General Discussion Sagers Dry Run, Investorzzos Protect yourself, JTinDenvers Observations, BearMarketTraders Outbreak, Investorzzo's Flying Pigs, JAGs request to CM, there are directly related to the flu (Sager also has a "what's happening while we're not looking behind the curtain" thread as well).

Now, next question is how did we do? I don't think we did very well here's why

  • The Conspiracy Theorists saw a conspiracy
  • The Anti-Conspiracy Theorists did not and tried to debunk the conspiracy theorists
  • Some people were level headed
  • Some people were scared
  • Some believed the MSM
  • Some did not believe the MSM
  • Some acted and did something
  • Some did not act and sat next to their TV's, PC's watching the developments
  • Some ignored it entirely

So I believe I was in the level headed camp, who did act, but watched developments, and did not believe the MSM. How did I act, well I now have (or soon will have) my full supplies for a year, my plans were already accelerating this has kicked them into high gear, and I used multiple non-US web news sources to cross reference the data that the US MSM was giving out, did a lot of stats, but wasn't that panicked (because the stats haven't yet indicated anything to worry about).

Now back to the statement that I don't think we did too well as a group. This flu scare (and that's what it seems to be turning into) generated a lot of panic, both here, and across the US, and it's nothing in comparison to total economic collapse, or a sustained energy crisis. Food is still in your local store (although facemasks are gone), mail is still being delivered, bankers still are taking your taxes. It's interesting but I get the sense that the community here fragmented, maybe it's the multiple threads,

So, question is what did we learn about ourselves, did we learn we do not believe the MSM but act on the information that the MSM is giving out, I suspect that some of the posts I've read indicate yes, I think that much as we would try to deny it, the MSM has a huge impact on the CM community; and we as a community act on that information. Scary thought. Not that it's that surprising, it's even got a name Socialization.

I think that some of us wanted someone to come tell us what to do, for an authority figure to appear and give us a definitve action plan, that's the same socialization as the reaction to the MSM.

I also think that it's interesting that we all fall into thought processes that are familiar, I did Math and logic (while staying home Friday with some sneezes, a mild cough and a slight temperature and yes I have considered it might be flu, which would be great, since its so mild I normally wouldn't stay home and I get free immunity to this strain), conspiracists looked for hidden truths, the anti-MSM people yelled first that it wasn't as bad as being said (last Saturday) with the Mexico death rate being 7%, then we weren't being told the truth (Thursday) with the US death rate being 0% and it was worse, medics gave their opinions, biotech people gave theirs.

One thing I think is important to remember, civilization didn't collapse (yet), and our reactions had minimal overall impact on our survival, this was not "Captain Trips". However, we can look at this and ask ourselves some deep and hard questions, when the media in particular, and Joe Biden were freaking out, what were you doing? Were you also freaking out, or carefully preparing and watching developments? Did you learn that your preparations weren't as complete as you thought? Will you be acting on that now (or in the near future)? Will you be ready, mentally and physically the next time something worse than this happens? Were you smart? Or were you a dangerous panicky animal?

In a way this is likely a dupe of Sagers dry run thread (or at least the intent of his thread) that was hijacked and became almost the definitive flu thread, perhaps it was was hijacked because it was posted a little early for everyone else.

It would be interesting to see others perceptions on this. Whichever camp you fell into.

SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

 Let's see, what did I do?

I listened to the MSM with one ear (into which I stuffed a large Grain of Salt), watched the web/alternate media with one eye (the various threads here, for instance), tried to keep a level head (mostly successful) and took a few actions, to wit:

- bought a little extra in the way of "lockdown" supplies (since it seems we won't need them they just go onto our stockpile, uh...pile).

- anticipated that some clients of ours may have slid into panic and therefore was ready to discuss the flu w/them using all the info I gleaned (which I trusted), and also put out anti-biotic hand wipes and Purel in our studios (yes, I know, anti-biotic handwipes don't help vs. virus but what I'm doing is trying to help people manage their fear and if they want an anti-biotic handwipe [and it means they'll keep coming for their sessions] then by gum anti-biotic handwipes it is!).

- Didn't care if it was a conspiracy or not since what am I supposed to do if the Grand Cabal is manipulating events, other than be ready for weirdness and danger and sudden change as best as I can?  (This is my general attitude towards 911 CT et alia:  mmmkay, suppose the Grand Cabal did it...what do I do with that info?  Call my congressman?  Start a letter-writing campaign?)

- And, of course, I took my vitamins, ate healthy, got as much sleep as I could...and rolled with the punches.  As they say in Hawai`i:  "Keep hele on!" (keep on truckin') and/or "Cool head main ting, brah!"

Now that this flu deal seems to be the Flu Scare of '09 and not "Captain Trips" as Gungnir puts it, I guess we can all start mulling the options for the coming flu season (when H1N1 may or may not come back, possibly resistant now to Tamiflu...)

 

VIVA -- Sager

Juvysen's picture
Juvysen
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

Ok, I'll play. Here's what I did. 

- was critical of the mainstream media, but not too sure about conspiracies.  That said, I think that the freaking out was over nothing, and am not convinced that pandemic is a huge concern in places where there's running water and the ability to quarantine.  I could be "dead" wrong, but just wasn't convinced we had anything to worry about. 

- ran statistics through my head on the situation in mexico

- I *did* try to keep appraised of the situation so that I could keep us home if need be.

- made sure my husband brought home his work computer each night (which he does anyway) so he could work from home if need-be.

- continued my plans for gardening this spring.

 

So, basically - I guess I did nothing beyond watching.  I feel like we're set up pretty well for at least a couple months, and honestly I just don't think face masks are going to do much for us if we just stay home, which is what I intend to do in the case of a deadly pandemic.

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jerrydon10
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

But we are looking back as if the event were over. In fact, it has escalated 65% in the last 24 hours.

Thus far, I have accomplished only three things--Dug out a bottle of Purell which I use after every public outing, kept the TV tuned to a news channel and watched the threads here.

I still reserve the right to panic in the future if necessary.

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becky
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

Well, last Saturday I went out and bought some medical supplies that I had intended to buy but had been putting off due to wanting to not spend money.  That made me feel less worried (and I never did feel panic -- even though I've been concerned about a possible pandemic for years).  Then, I spent quite a bit of time reading and even a little posting on this website.  I never did turn on the tv to get any information -- not even The Daily Show.  In the past, my first impulse has been to turn on CNN to "see what's happening".  Had no desire this time.  I read some news articles and perused a couple of medical articles online.  Rethought, throughout the week, whether or not I really had enough food to go a couple of months and made an extra trip to the grocery store to "fill in the gaps". 

I also did a lot of thinking about people's reactions.  It does seem like this was a bubble.  It blew up over a 2-3 day period last weekend and then, by the middle of the week, people seemed to be calming down and (in some cases) either annoyed at  or making fun of all the fuss.  I do think that there continues to be some reason for concern -- maybe more this fall than now -- and I will be continuing to think of ways I need to prepare. 

The thing I learned about myself is that besides the two needs that I always have in a crisis situation, information and a sense of prepardness, I also have a strong need for community.  More and more, I can see that I'm not a good candidate for a loner, Grizzley Adams type of life.  Whatever happens in the future, I'm going to have to be connected to other people.

becky

SamLinder's picture
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

Kept my head as many about me (some here on this site as well as many in DC and, of course, all the MSM) were quickly losing theirs.

Rationality doesn't seem to be the order of the day any more. People in general seem too quick to panic at the drop of a hat. Perhaps it is because the world is moving too fast for too many people.

As has been previously pointed out, thousands of people lose their lives to "normal flu" every year in this country. Until I start seeing a large amount of "swine flu" related deaths suddenly popping up on the radar screen, I'm not going to sweat the small stuff.

I take the usual precautions on a daily basis anyway like washing my hands frequently - especially since I'm around my youngest grandson at least twice a week and he goes to pre-K at least 3 times a week (yikes! all those little germ carriers!)

I have now implemented my PM purchasing plan and continue to slowly increase my stocks of food and water - things I would do with or without a pandemic.

Bottom line, I would like to see everyone just step back and catch their collective breaths before leaping to any conclusions.

A good method that has always worked for me is this:

  1. Given the current situation, what is the worst that can happen? Use logic here - no panic reaction allowed!
  2. What are the logical, reasoned steps that I can take to prepare myself for that "worst case scenario"?
  3. Implement the changes that I can that will help me prepare.
  4. Keep an eye on the situation after having done all I can do.

If the situation worsens, repeat steps 1 through 4. If the situation doesn't get as bad as anticipated, relax and know that you're well stocked and prepared.

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LindaBobzien
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

Good review! 

I read everything on this and other reliable websites (no TV so the web and radio are what we have).  Consumed much salt when listening to the NPR and tried to figure out what I was missing, why were so many people freaking out?

Topped off our stores just in case I was wrong (prepare for the worst, it can't hurt).

I did note the comments of some of us here on the CM forums and thought; wow, there's allot of conspiracy thinking and doom.  No offense anyone please!  I tend to be in the doom camp usually.  I just wasn't this time.  The numbers they were handing out just didn't seem enough to get excited about.  I am still wondering why the mass freak out.  And amidst all this MSM the market still went up.  Go figure.

~lb

 

 

Amy Selmer's picture
Amy Selmer
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

My only direct "response" to the whole thing was to take it as a valuable reminder that people can get crazy and finally make the first aid and medical supply order I'd put together long since but not gotten around to actually ordering.  It's mostly injury-related stuff, and I already have on hand the items that I prefer to use in case of illness, but it was a reminder that it's better to prepare sooner rather than later because later could easily be too late, there could be a rush on products or companies, things get backordered, etc.

I paid more attention to the news than usual, which isn't saying much, mostly because I kept waiting for someone to tell me exactly what was unusual about the situation that was causing everyone to freak out.  As others have commented, I still haven't had that explained to my satisfaction.  I also agree with Sager that, while I grant the possibility of conspiracy, and note that the whole thing serves several possible purposes for the people at the top, I'm not in any position whatsoever to know the truth or do anything about it, so from my point of view it's pretty moot.  Made a few comments to panicky acquaintances trying to put things in perspective and mostly left it at that.  Oh, and I spent some more time thinking about what I would do if I really did feel that there was an immediate, serious disease threat at some later date.  Felt a few twinges about letting my food stores run down a bit.

Honestly, though, even though there have been a few cases confirmed within a couple hours of here, only a couple of chronic worriers seemed to be really stressing.  More people on my Facebook page were fretting about whether the rain would ruin the local "fairy festival".  I don't get out much, it's true, but my impression was that the ordinary people around here were mostly not that interested.  Not sure whether I'm happy about that or not.

My husband and I definitely felt, in response to Sager's preparedness thread, that the answer was "Eeeeeh, we still have some work to do."  So at least that was a valuable nudge.

bluebird's picture
bluebird
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

I wondered why the media was talking non-stop about a potential new kind of flu that was spreading globally, but was not causing deaths globally (a hundred+ in Mexico).  What was going on in the world that they didn't want us to discuss? Could it have been they didn't want us to discuss the horryifying torture that everyone talked about the previous week? Did they not want us to discuss the ramifications of the Chrysler bankruptcy, probable GM bankruptcy, and resulting thousands (millions?) of unemployed from shutdowns of the auto sector this summer. These shutdowns apparently are going to impact a lot more families than H1N1, at this time. Perhaps H1N1 was only a diversion?

There is the possibilty of H1N1 mutating during the summer, and returning in the fall with a vengeance. Then let's see what happens. At present there isn't even a vaccine.

But with all the possibilties of this potential deadly virus, many more people decided to stock up on essentials, just in case. What the 'doomer' message couldn't do to motivate people, the 'pandemic' message did motivate people.

 

 

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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

I'm pretty disconnected from the MSM and don't leave the house all that often, so I was not completely wrapped up in this whole flu thing at all. Yes, I knew about it... especially since my husband seemed to be a bit obsessive about following and discussing it. He's more worried about health issues than I am. After working in a few hospitals I've realized you either get it and die, get it and not die, not get it and not die, or not get it and die anyway... there is really very little that you can reasonably do to substantially increase or decrease your odds unless you have a self-sustaining space station on the moon.

What I did do, or should I say "given the go ahead" to do, is finally purchase our longterm food supply, more bug out gear, and top off our already substantial first-aid medical kit.  So the flu scare hasn't affected me directly, but by affecting my husband, we were able to move our TSHTF prep a few giant steps forward. But I have noticed, on my few outings, that others seem to be going absolutely bug nuts and talk of nothing else!  I am constantly astounded that so few people seem to understand basic biology, or a basic disease vector and transmission protocol... didn't we all learn at least the basic stuff in high school? Or is this the kind of systemic panic amnesia that occurs in mass hysteria situations?

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rocketgirl1
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

OKAY CM PEEPS,

I'm finally ready to weigh in on the flu dealy-O.  I keep hearing about................

A. this is hype

B. the flu kills 30k annually any hue

C. we'll have a vaccine if this thing goes super nova

D. why is everyone freaking out?

WHAT?  Are you kidding?

Here's some facts.............

Never before seen in us human types virus strain that is able to mutate AT ANY TIME .

CDC just today reported that the average age of death from this strain is 17.

Majority of cases not being reported-current numbers in USA are backlogged from days ago. CDC reporting thirty people on ventilators (age?)

THIS IS NOT SEASONAL FLU AND WILL NOT ACT LIKE SEASONAL FLU.

HOPE..........

This will fizzle out with summer approaching and we will have time to create an AFFECTIVE vaccine BUT..............

Keep in mind

A. We only have one manufacturer in the US that can create a vaccine and there is no possible way enough vaccine will be created world wide for everyone!  WHO will get the vaccine?????

The other companies that can create a vaccine are in foreign countries (Germany and ??) there will not be enough for everyone!!

Does the US government use fussy math? NO DAH

Do we have history to guide us?YUP

Truth is truth regardless of how you feel about it.

I'll keep my son home from school a few more days out of "an abundance of caution".  I've already prepped.  If we see fatalities of "young, healthy adults in the prime of their life' I will  be "forward thinking" and spend the summer at my cabin, away from the madding crowd and not in the desert with 115 degree temps.  Color me crazy if you want but I won't be able to hear you because the truth is sooooo loud. 

 

I'm just saying

 

Tapani's picture
Tapani
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

The flu seems to grow with an average of 55% new cases every day. The numbers are low. So far.

But by now, we here know better than underestimate exponential growth.

Mexican SSA (CDC) has a backlog of 35,000 cases to test, with similar problems expected from all testing agencies. The people who die have been ill for 2-3 weeks, so the lack of death numbers does not mean so much yet. How lethal this flu is, still remains to see.

//Tapani

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Juvysen
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

Personally, I am not interested in the vaccine.  It'll have been tested for so short a time, lord only knows what maladies that bugger will bring or if it'll even be effective. The regular flu vaccine has a hit or miss effectiveness and a load of mercury, etc.  More mortalities and morbidity happened from the vaccine from the last swine flu scare than from the actual flu!  No thank you. 

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

Let's try to keep this on track people.

If you want to discuss the flu itself, there are many threads present that can fulful that need, I'm more interested in, how did you react, and finding out whether for all your prep, you've discovered something about yourself, your plans that you hadn't considered.

We all sit here in relative comfort knowing that the system is there and we can snuggle up to it warts and all. For a short while last week it seemed that the system might break down, and how did that effect people. Some day we all suspect soon (soon being relative, could be a few months, a few years, or a few decades) the system will break, when the crutch is gone, how does that impact our overall plans? Are our plans reliant on a national system or are they not reliant on that system. Can we deal with the psychological turmoil of the system vanishes, or not.

The thread is meant to be about you, your reactions, your perceptions and what you learned about you, not about the flu.

OK carry on...

 

 

PlicketyCat's picture
PlicketyCat
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

One thing I did notice, is that while I'm "preparing" I'm still not really 100% "ready".  Physically, I've been collecting my gear and getting things lined up. Psychologically, I'm aware there is a problem and working towards a plan (no panicky animals!). But emotionally, I noticed that niggling feeling of "holy Hell, I am so not ready for all this. Can I even do it?!"   But I guess it's a bit like a person who asks themselves if they are going crazy shows that they are not by asking the question... a person who asks themselves if they can handle a coming crisis shows that they are because they know enough to ask the question.

I'm still a little too dependent on the system than I feel comfortable with since I'm still collecting gear and knowledge. I still have to rely on manufacturers, distributors, banks, freight carriers, etc to get all of what I need to be self-sustaining into my hot little hands. While shopping for gear and supplies, I noticed that "out of stock" is getting more and more common... I think the flu scare has clued in more people and amped up the ones who have already been preparing since the economic downturn. Also, my search for gear clued me in to the fact that there is very little actually produced/manufactured or even locally distributed in my area... seriously, I could have saved a bundle on shipping and freight costs if I could have driven an hour or so to a warehouse/wholesaler. Shipping/freight carriers have almost a 2-week delay on standard ground service, the USPS mail is taking longer too.

Another odd phenomenon... my banks don't seem to want to let me spend my money. I got "fraud protection" alerts on almost all my purchases this weekend even though they weren't that high. Ok, sure, there were a lot of them all at once, but nothing I would consider completely suspiscious. And that's on top of them holding checks (even cashiers checks!) even longer than they used to... one of my asset cash-out checks took over 3 weeks to clear! Even the paycheck direct deposits are delayed... used to clear by the end of the business day on pay day, but now it doesn't clear until the end of the following business day. I don't know if this is the bank or the company, but it's a scary trend. 

I don't know if the flu scare has anything to do with me personally being more aware of the goods/shipping/financial issues, or if it's just made more people rush out for the last available resources... but the system is starting to really get bunged up. I hope I get everything I need and have un-assed the AO before one or more of these bottlenecks springs a fatal leak!

ljones0's picture
ljones0
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Re: Flu Scare Posts and interesting Sociological ...

By and large I didn't do a whole lot of preparing for the flu outbreak. At most I saw some of the mass media coverage and also read what others have said on these forums. Outside that though, I didn't really do anything else.

 

And why? By and large it still feels like this whole thing was in at least part driven by the media. The media is well known for liking disaster stories (for example it sells more newspapers) so I guess they came to this story like a moth to a lightbulb. Disaster story=more sales.

 

I mean what about all the media nonsense when we heard 'hundreds' or 'thousands' dead in mexico? Not only were the numbers wrong they didn't tell us any of the finer details. Just because you have flu  dosen't neccerailly mean you are going to die. There are many other variables which will determine the outcome. Are you rich? Poor? High or low stress levels? Which country? Living conditions? Fresh water? Accessible healthcare? And if it is, can you afford it? - to name but a few. Don't forget many more people die of HIV in africa since many people are poor there as opposed to here in the west.

 

I don't think either that just because flu mutates into a new strain that it automatically becomes lethal. A Generic mutation might not be lethal after all. Maybe it is a case of 'survival of the fitttest'? A new strain *might* become dangerous after a single mutation, but I'd have thought this would be unlikely. It might take another 10 mutations. It might take a million more. Could happen next week or in 100 years' time. Point I'm trying to make is I do understand mutations could be dangerous, but I think the chances are extremely low. Again, surely HIV has had many chances to become airborne - passed by a sneeze or cough - yet it hasn't done so yet.

 

So overall, I pretty much did - nothing at all apart from check the news and websites a few times. But if the chances are so small at what point do you say not to bother? A comet or meterioite could hit the earth and result in a global extinction but the chances are tiny. You're not going to be able to eliminate risk totally out of your life. Is there any point in doing so, or do we run around the place keeping ourselves rapped up in cotton wool because there's a .00000000000000001% chance that the guy standing 50 meters away and walking away from us - in a non-crouded area might just have a knife and steal our money.

 

Me I refuse to jump whenever the media or newspapers or TV says jump. I mean how high do you want to jump? If there is a real problem with proven scientific facts and proper reporting  (rather than just media claptrap and panic) then I'll listen. Other than that, no. It's no more than some sort of reality TV show then.

 

Maybe it just shows how much power nightmares can have over people?

 

ljones

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