Flash Mob Attack Database

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Flash Mob Attack Database

 Here's an interesting link to a database of violent flash mob attacks that have been reported to the media.

violentflashmobs.com/

They are on the rise and are something that I think we are going to see more of in the future.

Tim

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Gonna ask a stupid question . . .

 Flash mobs.  That's a heck of a database, but um . . . how do you define a flash mob?  (I'm up to date on a lot of CM topics but not this one.) 

I ask because the mostly sleepy community I live in the wine country had two (that I know of) large bar brawls in 2009.  I chalked it up to stress from unemployment.  The one in the link below involved 80 people and one in Petaluma was smaller, but still . . .large. 

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20091223/NEWS/912239997

Would you consider that a flash mob, or are they more premeditated?  

But still, I'm seriously considering moving to Sebastopol.  Better community, more prepared.  Anyway, would love someone's opinion on this and some background on flash mobs. 

Ann

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I think the definition of a

I think the definition of a flash mod is pretty vague.  Judging by the entries, it looks like either a preplanned meeting to quicky rob and then disperse or an impromptu gathering that depends on the mob mindset to rationalize violence.  In either case, it almost seems like the criminals are doing it for the fun or exhiliration of doing it. 

Tim

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Mobs in London?

So What  is the mindset of those destroying at random in England? Is this a stage for expectations in the US?   I doubt one can defend ones' family  with that chaos. Oh by the way what does one do to an intruder ?

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I don't think what is

I don't think what is happening in England has anything to do with flash mob mindsets, but is more likely due to general anger at the government.  I think flash mobs tend to focus on people where as what we saw in various north African countries, and now in England, is focused on the government.

Violent flash mobs are striking at the symbols with no attempt to solve a problem.  It's just lashing out for personal satisfaction or entertainment.  I do think we will see those types of crimes rise in the US, but also think we will someday see events in the US that are very similar to the events happening in England.

Gabe Suarez has a good writeup on flash mob attacks and how to defend against them on his website at www.warriortalknews.com/2011/06/the-mob-attack-what-to-do-to-defend.html

Tim

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Just another opinion....
eexpo wrote:

So What  is the mindset of those destroying at random in England? Is this a stage for expectations in the US?   I doubt one can defend ones' family with that chaos. Oh by the way what does one do to an intruder ?

You may see similar events in a few places in the US where the general population isn't armed because state and local governments have neutered themselves, but I doubt you will see such events on a widespread scale.

From what I have read, flash mobs are like electricity and they seek the path of least resistance.  If you committ to defending yourself and your family you can probably put up a stout enough defense to at least give the mob pause to reconsider and buy some time.

If not, a mid to high center of mass double tap will work on just about any intruder.  Truncated cone hollow points add a considerable error margin.

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Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote: eexpo

Yes they do!  Understatement of the year?

What about this:  If you have to defend your dwelling or business from a mob, is it better to fire a few warning shots first, or to hell with warning shots and go ahead and aim?

It seems killing someone could invite big time retribition, and against a mob, which later comes back armed, those are bad odds. 

The fear of death may be a better way to stear a mob elsewhere, no? 

 

 

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Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:eexpo
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Truncated cone hollow points add a considerable error margin.

Yes they do!  Understatement of the year?

What about this:  If you have to defend your dwelling or business from a mob, is it better to fire a few warning shots first, or to hell with warning shots and go ahead and aim?

It seems killing someone could invite big time retribition, and against a mob, which later comes back armed, those are bad odds. 

The fear of death may be a better way to stear a mob elsewhere, no? 

 

 

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English 'riots' are no revolution

From this side of the pond, Tim, I'd say you're 180 degrees out, IMHO.

What's going on is much more like US flash mobs than any sort of 'revolution', just a lot more violent. There is that sense of devilment about it - a lot of rioters who've been interviewed have basically been doing it for kicks and the chance to loot some free stuff. There's virtually no politics in it at all. Don't get your hopes up about it being a great awakening of consciousness, most of them are totally enmeshed in celebrity/bling culture. They want 'stuff' - some of them even admit they could afford to buy it, but 'who's going to turn down free stuff when you can just take it?'.

That's not to say there are NO political elements - maybe 1% are your typical hardcore 'anarchists' (who tend to be just rent-a-mob who wouldn't know Proudhon or Bakunin if they walked down the street)  out for a chance to scrap with the police, but really the 99% are just looting. There is also a sense that some of them have nothing to lose, no stake in society and no prospects after quitting school at 12 because they we were going to get rich by one or other of drug dealing, winning X-Factor, knowing how to fiddle benefits better than the next guy or playing football....

I'm glad I'm well out of it, though the nearest trouble to here was about 5 miles away.

Regarding folks defending their property, some of the more tight-knit communities are getting on the streets as well, and being a bit more frightening than the police - it's worked in some places, anyway. The other worrying thing is it's also bringing out the right-wing mob, trying to exploit the 'vigilante saviour' niche.

Other things you can rule out: it's not race-based (black, white and asian alike are looting/suffering); it's not just about deprivation because some of those arrested for looting have been employed, in good jobs (which they'll now lose), it's not just kids (oldest arrest I've heard so far is 50 yrs old).  With groups of people turning up in BMWs and white vans to loot, there is also a clear element that is purely criminal in the traditional sense.

 

Yes, it's a mess; it's caused huge damage; but it is not a revolution or even a protest.

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Tough call....
Farmer Brown wrote:
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Truncated cone hollow points add a considerable error margin.

Yes they do!  Understatement of the year?

What about this:  If you have to defend your dwelling or business from a mob, is it better to fire a few warning shots first, or to hell with warning shots and go ahead and aim?

It seems killing someone could invite big time retribition, and against a mob, which later comes back armed, those are bad odds. 

The fear of death may be a better way to stear a mob elsewhere, no? 

Good points FB and a tough call.  I think I would be less concerned with possible retribution later and more concerned with the immediate threat.  Although given a lot of comments and observations coming out of London over the past few days, once a mob (or moblet) met up with any semblance of organized resistance they kind of melted away or shifted to what was perceived to be a softer target.

Here in Virginia, there is no such thing as a warning shot.  If you pull your gun, you better be able to explain in a court of law why you felt threatened enough that you needed to pull the wepon out and use it.  Warning shots will at the very least get you arrested for brandishing and unlawful discharge of a firearm.

In short, if you think you need to pull your gun out, you have already committed to using it.  That's when all of your training - both physical and mind set will be validated.....or not.

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Warning shots

I agree with Dogs: no warning shots ever.  If you don't think you are in immediate danger of death or serious bodily injury then don't draw at all.  If you are in that danger, then draw, aim and (if in that 1.2 seconds the danger hasn't evaporated) then fire two shots at the closest, most dangerous attacker.  Those are warning shots to the rest of them.... 

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Wilding

 

Wilding:
 
 Slang The act or practice of going about in a group threatening, robbing, or attacking others.

 

So it's sociopathic behavior.  Whatever is going on in the world just gives them an excuse.  

 

 

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Macs, I stand corrected on

Macs, I stand corrected on what's happening in England.  I don't know if its the optimist in me that was thinking there must be something behind the riots, but when looting starts, any legitimate goal is lost.  There's a reason that people shoot looters.  They are opportunists that serve nobody but themselves.

Tim

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Tim_P wrote: ...There's a
Tim_P wrote:

...There's a reason that people shoot looters.  They are opportunists that serve nobody but themselves.

Tim

hmmmmmmmm.

There is a reason that people shoot looters

Looters are opportunists that serve nobody but themselves

Banksters are opportunists that serve nobody but themselves

Therefore people have a reason to shoot banksers

Substitute looters/banksters with politician or oligarchs or any other group of opportunists that serve nobody but themselves. This should make for an interesting society in the sense of the Chinese curse.

 

 

 

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And then....
ann.s wrote:

 

Wilding:
 
 Slang The act or practice of going about in a group threatening, robbing, or attacking others.

So it's sociopathic behavior.  Whatever is going on in the world just gives them an excuse.  

Double Tap:

Colloquial:  The act or practice of dealing with wilding.

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Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote: Double
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Double Tap:

Colloquial:  The act or practice of dealing with wilding.

I believe it is also rule #2 in Zombieland

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Philly judge sentences 3 flash mobbers

 Judge Dougherty can usually be counted on to throw the book at juvenile delinquents, all the more so under intense media scrutiny.  This is the best we could have hoped for in terms of deterrence.  We must still hope he doesn't pronounce them "rehabilitated" in 3 months.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/20110819_A_judge_berates_three_w...

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Dogs, you said, Here in

Dogs, you said,

Here in Virginia, there is no such thing as a warning shot.  If you pull your gun, you better be able to explain in a court of law why you felt threatened enough that you needed to pull the wepon out and use it.  Warning shots will at the very least get you arrested for brandishing and unlawful discharge of a firearm.

In short, if you think you need to pull your gun out, you have already committed to using it.  That's when all of your training - both physical and mind set will be validated.....or not.

Same here in SC.

As to looters - ever been in a riot? I have. Bad news, man. But absolutely, it has been my experience that rioters and looters take the "path of least resistance." A sign that says, "No Tresspassers" and "This Property Protected by Smith & Wesson:" usually does the trick. Why rob the armed citizen when there is an unarmed one down the street?

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Once you pull your gun you

Once you pull your gun you are subject to the same laws that apply to actually shooting someone.  If you fire a warning shot, they will claim you shot at them and missed, and sue you anyway. You will probably win, but count on paying your lawyers 40k to defend you -- right or wrong. I don't know of much property that is worth the amount of money your defense lawyer will request. On property damage i recommend staying out of it and moving to a safe location if you can.

 If you or your loved ones are threatened: shoot first and shoot to stop/drop them (never say kill) ie 2 shots to the chest or 1 in the eyes or nose (center face -- you don't want the bulled to ricochette off the teeth or brow. you want it going through soft bone to the midbrain). .  Do not give any warning.

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In Indiana, deadly force is

In Indiana, deadly force is authorized to prevent a forcible felony to yourself or another innocent person.  If you do shoot and the prosecuter determines it to be within the law, you are protected from lawsuits by the criminals family.  But, if you either draw a weapon or even just explicitly expose it, you could be guilty of intimidation.

In a legal sense, you only have the choice of bringing the weapon into the situation if you fear bodily harm to yourself or another person.  If you don't have cause to shoot a person, you don't have cause to draw the weapon.

Tim

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Mob attack article

 Here's an interesting article that I had not seen before.  It speaks of a intentional effort to supress reporting of racially motivated attacks as such depending on the demographics.  I don't understand why this is this way.  Racism is racism and hate crimes are hate crimes no matter who the perpetrater is.  The idea that you don't want to offend the black community by reporting these as racism is wrong.  The black community should be offended just as the white community should be offended by the acts of white supremists.  Failure to report it as such amounts to an implicit acceptance.  Our culture should not accept racism of any type.

www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/the_racial_violence_that_dare_not_speak_its_name.html

Tim

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Tim_P wrote: Here's an
Tim_P wrote:

Here's an interesting article that I had not seen before.  It speaks of a intentional effort to supress reporting of racially motivated attacks as such depending on the demographics.  I don't understand why this is this way.  Racism is racism and hate crimes are hate crimes no matter who the perpetrater is.  The idea that you don't want to offend the black community by reporting these as racism is wrong.  The black community should be offended just as the white community should be offended by the acts of white supremists.  Failure to report it as such amounts to an implicit acceptance.  Our culture should not accept racism of any type.

www.americanthinker.com/2011/08/the_racial_violence_that_dare_not_speak_its_name.html

Was it racism?

In 2009, a four month wave of mayhem broke out in Denver. There were at least 26 violent robberies committed by two black gangs.

Racism is one theory an alternate theory could be: anger expressed by groups of "have nots" against groups believed to be "haves." I agree that some racism is involved as there is in the tea party movement but before making a definitive statement attributing everything to racism let's also explore alternate theories that may -- I am not holding my breathe -- help us to remedy the root causes.

 

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Remember, a group of people

Remember, a group of people does not have to KNOW it is being oppressed to actually BE oppressed.  Similarly, said group need not have that knowledge to FEEL pressure.

There's a saying, "pressure busts pipes".

It is totally possible, and i think in many cases likely, to have a group of rioters have no goals in particular, but be motivated by an unconscious "knowledge" that they are indeed victims.  We all are, just some of us deal with it more maturely, and have less hardship to show for it.  We were all born into a system, whether we know it or not, that systematically enslaves us, how can this NOT produce violence?

This is NOT to say punishment should be withheld! 

In my opinion (worth price charged), this is all the expected outcome of stripping morality from education, from the justice system, the economy, and all other spheres of human life.  Even effectively disciplining your children is frowned on or outlawed. 

Another saying is, "all discipline is external until it is made internal", meaning with proper training, external discipline becomes unneccesary.  Strip away the external discipline from a child, and you have no hope of that child ever internalizing it.

On the topic of self-defense, read up on Tim P's other posts, he's got lots of good info right here on this site.

Speaking from personal experience, any violent self-defense measures will likely land you in court, either criminal, civil or both.  Simply put, self-defense is an afront to police power, and may not be well-tolerated in your area.  Check your local cases to see which way the wind blows, and plan accordingly.  For civil, most homeowner's policies will pay for your defense if the action happens on or near your turf, but check with your agent to be sure! 

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frobn wrote: Racism is one
frobn wrote:

Racism is one theory an alternate theory could be: anger expressed by groups of "have nots" against groups believed to be "haves." I agree that some racism is involved as there is in the tea party movement but before making a definitive statement attributing everything to racism let's also explore alternate theories that may -- I am not holding my breathe -- help us to remedy the root causes.

frobn,

Could you give me a link or reference to the racism in the tea party other than tea party opponents simply saying there is?  I know a number of individuals who are/were active in the tea party (at least until it was marginalized by various forms of disinformation and co-opted) and, to my knowledge, not one of them is a racist.  That's obviously a purely anecdotal experience on my part but that's what I have to go on at this stage. 

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ao wrote:frobn,Could you
ao wrote:

frobn,

Could you give me a link or reference to the racism in the tea party other than tea party opponents simply saying there is?  I know a number of individuals who are/were active in the tea party (at least until it was marginalized by various forms of disinformation and co-opted) and, to my knowledge, not one of them is a racist.  That's obviously a purely anecdotal experience on my part but that's what I have to go on at this stage. 

A simple google search "racism in the tea party"

You are right not to take my word for it but I would go further and say don't base your opinion on any one particular link. Do your own research. In the above google search you will find links on both sides of the arguement. Personally, I think there are many very good--perhaps the majority--non-racists in the tea party. Perhaps you may want to search on "Is there racism in the tea party" or "no evidence of racism in the tea party." Again I don't expect anyone to rely on my opinion or any one link from whoever because I may be biased by my circle of friends and the articles/posts I have read.

 

 

 

 

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tictac1 wrote: Remember, a
tictac1 wrote:

Remember, a group of people does not have to KNOW it is being oppressed to actually BE oppressed.  Similarly, said group need not have that knowledge to FEEL pressure.

I think you hit the nail on the head. The felt pressure and ever present fearfulness of the present and the future plays a large role spontaneous riots and also in longer lasting groups such as the tea party. Not all participants in either are all good or all bad and many have good intentions. Please do take that I am not suggesting in any way that looters have good intentions or that their behavior should be excused.

tictac1 wrote:

In my opinion (worth price charged), this is all the expected outcome of stripping morality from education, from the justice system, the economy, and all other spheres of human life.  Even effectively disciplining your children is frowned on or outlawed.

One other thing that I would add to your list of things being striped away is: "compassion."

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Just asking....
frobn wrote:

 

....I agree that some racism is involved as there is in the tea party movement....

Skip on down a bit Brother Maynard.....

frobn wrote:

A simple google search "racism in the tea party"

You are right not to take my word for it but I would go further and say don't base your opinion on any one particular link. Do your own research. In the above google search you will find links on both sides of the arguement. Personally, I think there are many very good--perhaps the majority--non-racists in the tea party. Perhaps you may want to search on "Is there racism in the tea party" or "no evidence of racism in the tea party." Again I don't expect anyone to rely on my opinion or any one link from whoever because I may be biased by my circle of friends and the articles/posts I have read.

frobn -

Do you follow your own advice?

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Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote: frobn
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

frobn -

Do you follow your own advice?

Advice pertaining to? I read, converse, blog, do my own research, and draw my own conclusions which are influenced by my experiences as it is with everyone. I may disagree but I do not force my opinions on anyone. In the above post I was asked for a specific link. How would that have been better than providing an array of links with many points of view? Maybe I am wrong but you seem to be implying that I believe the tea party is comprised of racists when what I said was SOME. Or perhaps I didn't qualify it sufficiently for your tastes.

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 This thread is not

 This thread is not supposed to be about racism.  But, it does touch on attacks that are racially motivated as they are on the rise.  To compare groups of black teens that are shouting racial slurs while viciously beating non-black victims to Tea Party demonstrators is irresponsible and wrong.  I've attended a couple of Tea Party rallys and while I do think the movement has been co-opted to some degree, I witnessed no racism at all.  One of the featured speakers was black at an Indianapolis rally, yet Rep Andre Carson is accusing the Tea Party members of wanting to lynch blacks.  His reasoning is that the Tea Party agenda is to cut spending on entitlement programs and since there are black community members that make use of those programs, their goal must simply be racist.  

Frobn, you seem to be following the same line of thought.  I don't understand how you can say that the attacks in Denver were not a hate crime, but that cutting spending on programs that do a disservice to this country makes for a racist agenda.

Anyway, my point in this thread was to highlight a trend that the media is underreporting in the hopes that it may allow someone to avoid that situation if possible.  If you do not think that these attacks are racially motivated, please read the article regarding the 4th of July attacks in Milwaukee

www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/125027704.html

Sadly, racism is still with us and it's starting to rear it's head in an ugly way.  But, this thread was not intended to debate that point, but simply to make people aware of a growing trend.  Read the accounts available and decide how you and your family can avoid situations like that, or how you would react if you were caught in one of them.

Tim

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Tim_P wrote:Anyway, my
Tim_P wrote:

Anyway, my point in this thread was to highlight a trend that the media is underreporting in the hopes that it may allow someone to avoid that situation if possible.  If you do not think that these attacks are racially motivated, please read the article regarding the 4th of July attacks in Milwaukee

Perhaps I was not explicit enough for you. The article that you linked pointed to some very specific acts of racism, no one I know, is denying that racism was involved. My saying that there are likely other reasons for riots besides racism is not the same as saying there was no racism as is saying that SOME people in the tea party are racist is not the same as saying that an underlying purpose of the tea party is racist. If you wish to read it that way you are welcome to do so.

BTW, I don't expect main stream media to report any news accurately so I don't find it surprising if they are ignoring the racism. See my avatar.

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frobn wrote: Perhaps I was
frobn wrote:

Perhaps I was not explicit enough for you. The article that you linked pointed to some very specific acts of racism, no one I know, is denying that racism was involved. My saying that there are likely other reasons for riots besides racism is not the same as saying there was no racism as is saying that SOME people in the tea party are racist is not the same as saying that an underlying purpose of the tea party is racist. If you wish to read it that way you are welcome to do so.

frobn,

I'm sure you're cognizant enough to understand that by making the statement "some people in the tea party are racist", you sully everyone in the tea party by innuendo.  You didn't say some people in the Democratic party or the Republican party (or the NAACP, for that matter) are racist although some undoubtedly are.  You singled out the tea party.  In my opinion, it would be disingenuous to state that there is not a guilt-by-association implication to that statement, even though it is not an explicit statement accusing the tea party of racism.  Whether you intended it or not, your statement possesses the unsavory aroma of a passive-aggressive and unfair accusation. 

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