Federal Government Correction

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dshields's picture
dshields
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Federal Government Correction

There is going to be a Federal Government correction.  America simply can not afford the Federal Government it has.  So, the Federal Government is going to shrink.  It is going to shrink a lot.  It is going to shrink whether statists like it or not.  At this point we have to decide how we are going to manage the shrinking.  We can either manage it in some kind of organized fashion through legislative action or we can manage it in some disorderly fashion through collapse.  The choice is up to us - the people.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/america-government-out-control

 

land2341's picture
land2341
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How can I adequately explain how this terrifies me?

 I probably cannot do it justice,  but let me try.  First,  I agree.  Our government is out of control.  Our police forces have been over militarized,  our rights have been eroded,  our prison system has taken to recruiting directly from our elementary schools.  The government is out of control.

But,  and it is a huge BUT,  if we dismantle it we will lose and we will lose big. One of the reasons our government is out of control is the take over of it by an extreme element of corporatists.  Jamie Dimon once wrote that "the free market is preferable to democracy."  If we dismantle the "government" and be extremely clear about what you mean when you use that particular word.  We will leave a power void that will be filled rapidly by corporations.  If you think we are not free now,  you will not like what happens when we all become completely commoditized.

One of the things libertarians think government exists to do is to defend us from threats.  How will this new smaller govenrment defend us from our own corproations which are global behemoths with no loyalty to any nation state?  How can we defend ourselves from them if we are too busy fighting each other over what is wrong?

 

 

An example of what I am talking about:  http://www.republicreport.org/2012/cell-phone-corruption-bill/

 

Is this out of control government or under control government?

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Jim H
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Land...

I disagree with your premise... Corporations are run amuk because of the crony capitalist system we have.. pairing Gov't with Corporations.  If the laws we have were simply enforced, and a few choice ones re-established (like Glass-Steagall), forcing TBTF to actually fail when they malinvest... AND we finally cleaned up campaign finance such that our leaders could not be bought and paid for... then we could function quite well with a much smaller Gov't.  New laws would not have to 2000 pages because they would not be written by lobbyists, laden with loopholes.. but rather by our (supposedly) human legislators.     

We are going to have a disorderly reset because way too few people have any idea what is coming, or what the stakes are... don't be afraid.. be prepared.     

 

ao's picture
ao
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land2341 wrote:  I probably
land2341 wrote:

 I probably cannot do it justice,  but let me try.  First,  I agree.  Our government is out of control.  Our police forces have been over militarized,  our rights have been eroded,  our prison system has taken to recruiting directly from our elementary schools.  The government is out of control.

But,  and it is a huge BUT,  if we dismantle it we will lose and we will lose big. One of the reasons our government is out of control is the take over of it by an extreme element of corporatists.  Jamie Dimon once wrote that "the free market is preferable to democracy."  If we dismantle the "government" and be extremely clear about what you mean when you use that particular word.  We will leave a power void that will be filled rapidly by corporations.  If you think we are not free now,  you will not like what happens when we all become completely commoditized.

One of the things libertarians think government exists to do is to defend us from threats.  How will this new smaller govenrment defend us from our own corproations which are global behemoths with no loyalty to any nation state?  How can we defend ourselves from them if we are too busy fighting each other over what is wrong?

 

 

An example of what I am talking about:  http://www.republicreport.org/2012/cell-phone-corruption-bill/

 

Is this out of control government or under control government?

You mean our government is protecting us from corporations now?  You've got to be kidding.  On the contrary, they're serving us up as the main course with the government and corporations jointly feasting on us.

Jim H's picture
Jim H
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AO...

We had basically the same response, four minutes apart;

I said, "Corporations are run amuk because of the crony capitalist system we have.. pairing Gov't with Corporations."

You said, "On the contrary, they're serving us up as the main course with the government and corporations jointly feasting on us."

We almost crossed the beams....   : )

dshields's picture
dshields
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Just Wait...

I do not think the government has to be modified by force.  No force will be necessary.  The government is doing an excellent job of dismantling itself.  The out of control spending, allowing corporations to have major influence instead of the people, and the Federal Reserve just monetizing the deficit instead of trying to push for responsible behavior from our politicians is going to bring on an emergency in the next year or two.  There will be desperate behavior from the government to save itself by declaring marshal law or some such thing.  They will claim they are doing it for the people like they always do.  Somehow every time we lose our property or our liberty to the government it is always for the people.

I believe in the individual.  It is individuals and individualism that made America the great county it once was.  No country ever became great by creating a huge class of dependency and using transfer payments to support it.  No country ever became great by dumbing down its people.  No country ever became great by suppressing the people.  The purpose of the government is to protect our property and freedom - not take it away.  America got lazy and got stupid and elected the wrong politicians and the politicians screwed up big time.  And, now we are all in trouble.  As far as I can see the current crop politicians are paralyzed.  They can not and will not take action to try to save what we can.  If you think Obama or Mitt are going to take decisive action to cut the size, nature, scope, and cost of government you are mistaken.  I don't think it really makes much difference who wins the election.  I will vote for Mitt but I do not have any great hope from doing that.  The size and nature of the actions required to stop the coming emergency are simply not possible with the current government.

Just wait...  There is a silver lining in all this.  Once the financial emergency is over and the desperate behavior by the government to save itself is over, then the cost of government will be brought in line with the inbound revenue stream.  Once that happens, the government will be approximately half the size it is now.  This will greatly reduce the scope and nature of the government.  New people who believe in the spirit of the constitution will come to power as a result of the collapse.  When the majority of the people finally understand what has been done to them they will be outraged and change will happen.  The bad part is it is going to take major event to bring them around as amazingly enough only a small percentage of the population understands what is being done to them due to biased media coverage.  It will be bad.  When the class of dependency we have created figures out that they are not going to get all the free stuff they thought they were going to get they are going to be very unhappy.  I expect civil unrest.  But after it is all over it will be better and America will be a better place to live.  We are hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.

 

ao's picture
ao
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Jim H wrote: We had
Jim H wrote:

We had basically the same response, four minutes apart;

I said, "Corporations are run amuk because of the crony capitalist system we have.. pairing Gov't with Corporations."

You said, "On the contrary, they're serving us up as the main course with the government and corporations jointly feasting on us."

We almost crossed the beams....   : )

I saw that and chuckled.:-)

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
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It would be bad.....

ao, Jim H -

What's next - Total protonic reversal??? 

Maybe that will help solve the energy part of the 3E problem....

 

Jim H's picture
Jim H
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Dogs..

I fear that, at my age, I am only capable of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions any more.  As well, being a chemist, I like to practice my own version of alchemy, turning Nickel into Copper.  Fission, Fusion, and our most esteemed Protonic Reversal being right off the table.       

PS... We'll see if Robey calls me out here. 

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
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Slainte Mhor....
Jim H wrote:

I fear that, at my age, I am only capable of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions any more.  As well, being a chemist, I like to practice my own version of alchemy, turning Nickel into Copper.  Fission, Fusion, and our most esteemed Protonic Reversal being right off the table.       

PS... We'll see if Robey calls me out here. 

Jim -

Alchemy is good.  I like putting barley into copper storage units and turning it into uisge beatha.  That is Scottish brogue for "paint thinner".

At least that's what I tell the rev'nooers....

Jim H's picture
Jim H
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on homemade "paint thinner"...

Wow Dogs... you take self-sufficiency to new levels.  I will say that, within my shelves of stored food, along with all the other staples,  are several bottles of finest Oban.    

Doug's picture
Doug
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alternatively

 I would like to suggest an alternative to the false gov't vs. private dichotomy.  I think there is little doubt that our gov't is largely controlled by the corporatocracy, but my view of how we got here probably isn't widely shared by the more conservative mindset.

I don't think its any coincidence that the federal gov't started blowing up its debt bubble and the move to privatize government services started at the same time.  When RR took office, the fed. gov't was less than $1 trillion in debt.  When he left office, the debt was $3 trillion and, except for the Clinton administration, hasn't slowed since then.  The privatization initiative under the Reagan admin. did not, for the most part, replace gov't with private services.  Taxpayers and debt still pay for those services, but its done through gov't contracting.  I don't know how in the 24 years after Reagan no one has taken a serious look at whether all that privatization actually saved us money.  I think not.  We can see some of the results in the Blackwater fiasco and the many services still paid for by the gov't, but performed at much higher cost by so-called private enterprise (i.e. corporatocracy).  The gov't has just served as a pass-through for the bloated gov't contractor class.

As Jim and ao suggested, we have crony capitalism, but the genesis of that system has, I think, been mischaracterized.

Doug

dshields's picture
dshields
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Doug wrote:  I would like

 I would like to suggest an alternative to the false gov't vs. private dichotomy.  I think there is little doubt that our gov't is largely controlled by the corporatocracy, but my view of how we got here probably isn't widely shared by the more conservative mindset.

I don't think its any coincidence that the federal gov't started blowing up its debt bubble and the move to privatize government services started at the same time.  When RR took office, the fed. gov't was less than $1 trillion in debt.  When he left office, the debt was $3 trillion and, except for the Clinton administration, hasn't slowed since then.  The privatization initiative under the Reagan admin. did not, for the most part, replace gov't with private services.  Taxpayers and debt still pay for those services, but its done through gov't contracting.  I don't know how in the 24 years after Reagan no one has taken a serious look at whether all that privatization actually saved us money.  I think not.  We can see some of the results in the Blackwater fiasco and the many services still paid for by the gov't, but performed at much higher cost by so-called private enterprise (i.e. corporatocracy).  The gov't has just served as a pass-through for the bloated gov't contractor class.

As Jim and ao suggested, we have crony capitalism, but the genesis of that system has, I think, been mischaracterized.

Doug

[/quote

Some would say that I am of a conservative mindset - I would say I am a renegade repub. I don't really fit in the repub party very well as I am pro-choise and pro-constitution. Which ever way it is, I hear your point. I am not so sure all the contracting the fed gov does is effective either. I think there is a more fundamental problem. The Fed Gov is just way to large. It does not need nor should it be doing a lot of the things it does and wants to do. The Fed Gov will end up one way or another being cut back to match its inbound revenue stream. So it is going to end up about half the size it is today. That will cut out a large percentage of the contracting. A entirely different mindset will need to be put in place. Th purpose of the fed gov is not to control the people. The people are supposed to control the government. The purpose of the gov is to protect our property and liberty. Somehow we lost this focus and ended up with the fed gov oppressing the very people it is supposed to protect. It is broken and I do not believe that it will get fixed until there is some major event which will force the people to wake up and think it through. Out of control spending is going to bring that event to reality. After the dust settles I think things will be a lot better.

 

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