Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can It Get???)

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Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can It Get???)

Just how deep can the BS get?

We're a nation run by tyrants, and we, the American Consumer just keep putting up with it. Shrug, yawn, swig of beer. What's on television tonight?

The latest Federal Reserve garbage. GATA nailed them, again.

Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements

11p Tuesday, September 22, 2009

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

The Federal Reserve System has disclosed to GATA that it has gold swap arrangements with foreign banks that it does not want the public to know about.

The disclosure contradicts denials provided by the Fed to GATA in 2001 and suggests that the Fed is indeed very much involved in the surreptitious international central bank manipulation of the gold price particularly and the currency markets generally.

The Fed's disclosure came this week in a letter to GATA's Washington-area lawyer, William J. Olson of Vienna, Virginia (http://www.lawandfreedom.com/), denying GATA's administrative appeal of a freedom-of-information request to the Fed for information about gold swaps, transactions in which monetary gold is temporarily exchanged between central banks or between central banks and bullion banks. (See the International Monetary Fund's treatise on gold swaps here: http://www.imf.org/external/bopage/pdf/99-10.pdf.)

The letter, dated September 17 and written by Federal Reserve Board member Kevin M. Warsh (see http://www.federalreserve.gov/aboutthefed/bios/board/warsh.htm), formerly a member of the President's Working Group on Financial Markets, detailed the Fed's position that the gold swap records sought by GATA are exempt from disclosure under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act.

Warsh wrote in part: "In connection with your appeal, I have confirmed that the information withheld under Exemption 4 consists of confidential commercial or financial information relating to the operations of the Federal Reserve Banks that was obtained within the meaning of Exemption 4. This includes information relating to swap arrangements with foreign banks on behalf of the Federal Reserve System and is not the type of information that is customarily disclosed to the public. This information was properly withheld from you."

When, in 2001, GATA discovered a reference to gold swaps in the minutes of the January 31-February 1, 1995, meeting of the Federal Reserve's Federal Open Market Committee and pressed the Fed, through two U.S. senators, for an explanation, Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan denied that the Fed was involved in gold swaps in any way. Greenspan also produced a memorandum written by the Fed official who had been quoted about gold swaps in the FOMC minutes, FOMC General Counsel J. Virgil Mattingly, in which Mattingly denied making any such comments. (See http://www.gata.org/node/1181.)

The Fed's September 17 letter to GATA confirming that the Fed has gold swap arrangements can be found here:

http://www.gata.org/files/GATAFedResponse-09-17-2009.pdf

While the letter is far from the first official admission of central bank scheming to suppress the price of gold (for documentation of some of these admissions, see http://www.gata.org/node/6242 and http://www.gata.org/node/7096), it comes at a sensitive time in the currency and gold markets. The U.S. dollar is showing unprecedented weakness, the gold price is showing unprecedented strength, Western European central banks appear to be withdrawing from gold sales and leasing, and the International Monetary Fund is being pressed to take the lead in the gold price suppression scheme by selling gold from its own supposed reserves in the guise of providing financial support for poor nations.

 

Read the rest right here....

http://gata.org/node/7819

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

Nothing, I mean nothing, surprises me anymore.  The worldwide shell game of central banks is built on deceit and misdirection.

How can anyone believe anything put forth by our government or any of it's ancillaries?

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

Sorry if I missed it, but I cant find any statement in these documents that says they are conducting any gold swaps hiding them?  Looks like they are just saying GATA is not allowed to see such information whether it existed or not.  Am I missing something here?

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

rickets,

That's my reading also.  However, that kind of language is frequently used to avoid having to lie.

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

Morph,

As a frequent GATA poster, help me understand something here.

Its obvious to anyone that has a basic understanding of our fiat monetary system, that the governments of this world have a primary interest in suppressing the role of gold as a monetary form of exchange. Yet GATA wastes tremendous amounts of time and effort trying to prove the obvious.

What is the purpose in that effort? What is to be gained by it?

The value of gold is dependent on the existence of a market to trade it in. Ironically, GATA would have you believe that gold's true value will only be obtained if the system collapses. But if the monetary system collapses, no market will exist for gold, and therefore it will hold no objective value.

To put it another way, it seems that GATA would be satisfied if the price of gold was $5,000/oz. If that happened tomorrow, how would one profit from it?

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

Morpheus,

Nice find - interesting stuff.  The folks at GATA are working hard in an attempt to remove the predatory practices between central and bullion banks in suppressing the price of gold.  Unfortunately, they have had little impact as manipulations rage on.  China seems like the only entity that is having any effect on the amount of manipulation in the gold and silver markets.  My opinion (I am not an attorney nor a "doctor" of anything) is that GATA has a flawed strategy - or maybe I just don't understand what they are trying to accomplish.

  1. Why would GATA use an FOIA lawsuit against a private corporation?

    Back in November of 2008, Bloomberg entered an FOIA lawsuit against the Fed to discover who the recipients were of over $2 trillion dollars of taxpayer bail-out money.  This suit may have established some legal precedent  - Fed Refuses to Disclose Recipients of $2 Trillion:

    Bloomberg filed suit Nov. 7 under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act requesting details about the terms of 11 Fed lending programs, most created during the deepest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

    The Fed responded Dec. 8, saying it’s allowed to withhold internal memos as well as information about trade secrets and commercial information. The institution confirmed that a records search found 231 pages of documents pertaining to some of the requests.

    The Bloomberg lawsuit said the collateral lists “are central to understanding and assessing the government’s response to the most cataclysmic financial crisis in America since the Great Depression.”

    In response, the Fed argued that the trade-secret exemption could be expanded to include potential harm to any of the central bank’s customers, said Bruce Johnson, a lawyer at Davis Wright Tremaine LLP in Seattle. That expansion is not contained in the freedom-of-information law, Johnson said.

    The Fed's defense is that they are privately owned corporation.  Trade secrets and customer confidentiality are privlidges enjoyed by private corporations - not the way government or the public sector operates.  The Fed has a private monopoly over the issuance and control of our money and they are allowed to operate secretly, behind closed doors.  What will a FOIA lawsuit accomplish?

    Note:  The minutes are available, here's a Federal Reseve link - general counsel, J. Virgil Mattingly, told the Federal Open Market Committee, according to the committee's minutes, that the U.S. Treasury Department's Exchange Stabilization Fund had undertaken "gold swaps." 

  2. Is GATA trying to stop the private Fed from manipulating the gold and silver markets?

    While this may be admirable, I don't think they have shown a tenable legal position.  The New York Federal Reserve branch unilaterally runs the FOMC - this is legal even if it stinks of cronyism and conflicts of interest.  The big bullion banks like Goldman Sacks, J P Morgan Chase and Citibank coincidently own a large part of the New York Federal reseve Branch.

    Yea, this is appalling, but it appears to be legal - or at least "not our business." 
     

  3. Is GATA implying that their 1995 "minutes discovery" establishes anything new?


    According to an article posted by James Turk  - "The Federal Reserve Bank of New York has had a number of accounts abroad, of which three with nominal sums remain at present. The three accounts are with the Bank of England, the Bank of France and the Bank of Canada.  The account with the Bank of England was opened in 1917 and subsequently used for a number of transactions involving exchange operations, investments and the purchase and earmark of gold. The account at the Bank of France was opened in 1918 in order that we might establish a sight account for possible use in transactions for the stabilization of exchange rates."

    Back in January, Elaine Supkis broke a story that documented that the Federal Reserve was involved in pricing manipulations back in the early 60's.  James Turk added to Elaine's article and it was published at GATA and elsewhere - James Turk: The Fed's blueprint for market intervention (btw, this is a must read article).

I hope I'm wrong and I hope GATA has success but I don't see how they can mount a legal charge against the Fed with an FOIA lawsuit.  The bigger issue that is hard to get people to understand, is that the private Federal Reserve is a predatory conflict of interest - by design.  The way to get rid of the Fed is to simply fire them.  And, then, a RICO investigation would be in order.

Larry

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...
JAG wrote:

Morph,

As a frequent GATA poster, help me understand something here.

Its obvious to anyone that has a basic understanding of our fiat monetary system, that the governments of this world have a primary interest in suppressing the role of gold as a monetary form of exchange. Yet GATA wastes tremendous amounts of time and effort trying to prove the obvious.

What is the purpose in that effort? What is to be gained by it?

The value of gold is dependent on the existence of a market to trade it in. Ironically, GATA would have you believe that gold's true value will only be obtained if the system collapses. But if the monetary system collapses, no market will exist for gold, and therefore it will hold no objective value.

To put it another way, it seems that GATA would be satisfied if the price of gold was $5,000/oz. If that happened tomorrow, how would one profit from it?

Two things that I have to strongly disagree with here JAG. First, you're assuming that gold is a commodity. It's not. Governments may decree that it is, and that it's not a monetary unit but 6000+ years of human history, transcultural at that, prove otherwise.

Gold, and silver, are a store of wealth. Don't believe me? Look at the inflation-adjusted DJIA performance over the last 10 years vs gold. Gold has outperformed the markets hands down.

Second, GATA does not believe that it is going to require a collapse fo the monetary system for gold to spike. What they are arguing is that suppression of commodities prices via manipulation is racketeering, and that big central banks and their primary affiliates (JPMorganChase, Deutchebank, HSBC) are raking in hundreds of billions in a rigged ripoff scheme by controlling these two primary PM markets.

Jeff. For them to profit, someone has to lose. That'd be me. And a few million other people trying desperately to keep the value of our labor from being ripped off from us via inflation and/or manipulation.

The concept of gold as a commodity in our culture is very new. Less than a hundred years. It is only considered a commodity due to legal tender laws. But this is legalese. The fact of the matter is that the physical markets are experiencing huge shortages, yet the price is waffling up and down at a snails pace.

There's a disconnect between supply and demand here Jeff. Money is what people think it is. And historically it has been gold and silver. Silver has industrial use. Therefore it can ALSO be considered a commodity in addition to money. The same cannot be said of gold. It has very limited commerical use. 85% of all the gold ever mined is still above ground and available. That's not how a commodity functions. And people don't buy the physical stuff because they think it's pretty and worth a $1000 or so per coin to visually admire. They buy it because it stores value.

Now, in spite of the manipulation it's still stores value. How can that be? And what is it's true value if the paper gold and silver busted and real price discovery were allowed to occur? Just one more thing to chew on. China is trying to corner the physical gold and silver markets. Why?

If the monetary system collapses, he who has the most gold and silver wins. Because they have the wealth. And guess who that is? Dollars are paper. They are currency. A mere medium of exchange that do not truly store the value of labor. If you own gold in spades, other than having a humanitarian heart (and I wish that all people would), why would you care if the currency collapsed? You have MONEY. Now, instead of coverting your money (gold and silver) to paper currency in order to spend your stored labor you'd have to go two routes: First, spend the coins directly, or Second, convert your gold/silver to a foreign currency that still has some usefulness as a medium of exchange. Either way, your money didn't vaporize the way a currency can, and does.

Spend the coins when people want bread not gold/silver? Yes. Exactly. I can take a silver coin and buy gas with it. The guy that sold me gas will trade that coin for for some auto parts. The auto parts guy will take it to the local farmers market and buy flour, sugar, and yeast. Viola, from silver to bread.

Gold and Silver. They are fungible, rare, and has been vastly accepted, regardless of culture, throughout the anthropological record. The same cannot be said of paper.

Do you know what the currency of choice is in Zimbabwe? Not the USD. Nope. Gold dust.

History repeats itself.

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President's Working Group or Plunge Protection team

The President's Working Group on Financial Markets.......gives me great concern.......It's now the Plunge Protection Team. 

President Reagan used them to work the markets in '88 and I'll bet they are a very powerful force in keeping this ship upright as long as it has.

From: http://www.rense.com/general52/secretsoftheplunge.htm

Executive Order 12631 - Working Group on Financial Markets - Mar. 18, 1988; 53 FR 9421, 3 CFR, 1988 Comp., p. 559.

 "By virtue of the authority vested in me as President by the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, and in order to establish a Working Group on Financial Markets, it is hereby ordered as follows:

 Section 1. Establishment. (a) There is hereby established a Working Group on Financial Markets (Working Group). The Working Group shall be composed of:

(1) the Secretary of the Treasury, or his designee; (2) the Chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, or his designee; (3) the Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, or his designee; and (4) the Chairman of the Commodity Futures Trading Commission, or her designee.

 

 

 

  From 1997: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/business/longterm/blackm/plunge.htm

From Ellen Brown: http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/wag_the_dog.php

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

Morph,

Thanks for the reply. I want you to know that I'm in no way criticizing you and that I too own gold and silver. My inquiries are merely an effort to understand the gold market better.

I'm aware of gold/silver's well established role as money throughout history and I obviously can't argue with it. Gold is a very unique market in that the price of gold has been clearly shown to be correlated to the fear in the marketplace. Currently, that fear is of a currency-crisis, 6 months ago the fear was of a deflationary spiral, and a year ago the predominant fear was run away inflation. 

My experience with investing in other financial markets has taught me that making an investment decision based on fear is always a losing proposition. But gold appears to be an investment in fear itself. Thus my trading instincts tell me that gold is the worst of all investments because demand for it guarantees poor market timing.

It is this inherent poor timing that I believe creates the perception of overt manipulation in the gold market. 

 

 

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

JAG wrote:

It is this inherent poor timing that I believe creates the perception of overt manipulation in the gold market.

Jeff, markets gave way a long time ago to manipulations, including gold.  These are not perceptions, it is the way it is.  The markets, the bail-outs and the private Federal Reserve are all part of a huge scam - the U.S. is being bamboozled.  I don't think you understand who and what the Federal Reserve is and I suggest you visit the CM "essential books" section and buy the The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve.

Or better yet, try Ellen Brown's Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth About our Money System.  That is a much better book from a mechanical perspective.

Larry

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...
DrKrbyLuv wrote:

JAG wrote:

It is this inherent poor timing that I believe creates the perception of overt manipulation in the gold market.

Jeff, markets gave way a long time ago to manipulations, including gold.  These are not perceptions, it is the way it is.  The markets, the bail-outs and the private Federal Reserve are all part of a huge scam - the U.S. is being bamboozled.  I don't think you understand who and what the Federal Reserve is and I suggest you visit the CM "essential books" section and buy the The Creature from Jekyll Island : A Second Look at the Federal Reserve.

Or better yet, try Ellen Brown's Web of Debt: The Shocking Truth About our Money System.  That is a much better book from a mechanical perspective.

Larry

Larry,

I read both books last year, and while entertaining, their content does more harm than good, especially from a trading standpoint. If you want to base your investment decisions on a conspiracy theory, irrespective of whether its true or not, then I will be more than happy to separate you from your money in the market.

Have you listened to the Two Beers With Steve podcast with Ellen Brown this week? By her own admission, she's is clueless about investing. If she wrote the book and is unable to "profit" from the information contained in it, then how will that same information serve me any better? 

As you can probably tell, I strongly resent the continued reference to conspiracy theories to explain all things under the sun. It implies that anyone who doesn't value the information the way you do is ignorant. And yet all I hear is that those who believe in CT are discriminated against. It is the believers that discriminate, not the non-believers.

There is only one conspiracy in this world that really matters, the conspiracy of self.

Unfortunately, there is no book that I can refer you to for a better understanding of this conspiracy.

 

 

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...
JAG wrote:

Morph,

Thanks for the reply. I want you to know that I'm in no way criticizing you and that I too own gold and silver. My inquiries are merely an effort to understand the gold market better.

I'm aware of gold/silver's well established role as money throughout history and I obviously can't argue with it. Gold is a very unique market in that the price of gold has been clearly shown to be correlated to the fear in the marketplace. Currently, that fear is of a currency-crisis, 6 months ago the fear was of a deflationary spiral, and a year ago the predominant fear was run away inflation. 

My experience with investing in other financial markets has taught me that making an investment decision based on fear is always a losing proposition. But gold appears to be an investment in fear itself. Thus my trading instincts tell me that gold is the worst of all investments because demand for it guarantees poor market timing.

It is this inherent poor timing that I believe creates the perception of overt manipulation in the gold market. 

 

 

Well again I disagree. And honest, academic ciriticism of one's writings should not be avoided but encouraged. True gold can be a fear investment, but also a hedge investment against weak currency. One of the reasons that I am a silver bug is that it is a dual use metal. It is considered money and is consumed. On top of that it's fundamentals are, in my humble opinion, very attractive.

Gold is an insurance policy. And a speculative one if one is betting that the manipulation will be broken. I have reason to believe that it will. Silver however, is not only insurance, but a commodity. That's why I actually prefer the later.

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...
JAG wrote:

There is only one conspiracy in this world that really matters, the conspiracy of self.

Unfortunately, there is no book that I can refer you to for a better understanding of this conspiracy.

By 'conspiracy of self,' do you mean our inherent subjectivity -- that we all see the world through the distorting lens of a me-centered point of view?

I believe there are some books on this subject, starting with Plato.

The ones more pertinent to trading deal with sentiment and behavioral economics. When the human pack-animal herd reaches an overwhelming emotional consensus, it's usually wrong.

For instance, the Time magazine cover from June 2005 -- "Home $weet Home -- Why We're Going Gaga Over Real Estate":

http://bubblemeter.blogspot.com/2008/06/flashback-2005-america-was-going...

Or the 1979 Business Week cover, "Death of Equities" -- just before the long boom of the Eighties and Nineties commenced. It's the conspiracy of the herd (and factions within the herd who possess asymmetric information) that worry me. 

As to my own subjectivity ... well, it all makes sense to me. Laughing

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

Jeff. 

Perhaps you can keep a supply of both red and blue pills. Take the blue right before you go to work trading and take the red when you get home.

I'm not trying to be too flippant here. Balancing between playing the game (financial) and not playing the game is complicated by the realization that the rules change constantly without your knowledge, the men behind the curtain are hidden, and at any moment they could end the game without notice. We have to play the game to keep some sense of normalcy in our lives. At the same time, we should hedge our position lest the game ends without our having squirreled away a little and done some mental preparation.

I thought CM did a pretty good job of the "what % chance do you think xxx will happen" and allow us to prepare at our own rate. We are all at different %s and our perceptions of reality are all skewed by our personal filters and levels of fear of the unknown.

I have a very close friend who trades for a living as a financial advisor. She knows about the men behind the curtain. It makes her absolutely nuts.

As Ellen Brown said in that 2 Beers interview, all of us who stay in the markets feel we will be able to get out before the game board is reset.

My wife rolls the red pill around on her desk. I took the whole bottle. My tinfoil hat is made from a disposable roasting pan.

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...
Tycer wrote:

My wife rolls the red pill around on her desk. I took the whole bottle. My tinfoil hat is made from a disposable roasting pan.

LaughingLaughingCool

I find that an included angle of 61.8 degrees at the point works best for deflecting incoming cosmic rays.

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

JAG wrote:

If you want to base your investment decisions on a conspiracy theory, irrespective of whether its true or not, then I will be more than happy to separate you from your money in the market.

You're 50% correct - the gold market is manipulated by the Fed in conjunction with other central and the big bullion banks acting as FOMC agents.  This activity, by definition, is a conspiracy.

Morpheus's thread is not theoretical, it is just one of many examples of the private federal reserve manipulating markets.  When people come to understand who the Fed is and what they do, we'll have half a chance of stopping it.  First, they have to realize that the term "conspiracy theory" is actually two separate words.  Conspiracies exist separate from theories - the case of the gold market is a perfect example.

There seems to be a phobia that encourages these words to be forever linked together as a catch phrase to dismiss real conspiracies.

JAG wrote:

Its obvious to anyone that has a basic understanding of our fiat monetary system, that the governments of this world have a primary interest in suppressing the role of gold as a monetary form of exchange. Yet GATA wastes tremendous amounts of time and effort trying to prove the obvious.

Governments have little to do with the manipulations of the gold market.  The manipulation occurs via the private, secretive, for profit, central and big bullion banks and some hedge funds.  Most governments, including the U.S., have little to no say in how these private entities conspire to rig markets.

You are saying that GATAs manipulation claims are "obvious" but yet, you say that this is really just some kind of theory.  Try saying the word conspiracy without tagging on the obligatory theory then you will have it.

Larry

 

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

"There seems to be a phobia that encourages these words to be forever linked together as a catch phrase to dismiss real conspiracies"

 

Very well communicated. I might add that the real conspicary theory is that this conspiracy is a theory (suppresion of the gold price by the PTB). Where as in fact the very suggestion of it being a conspiracy theory is the "Real Conspiracy".

 

goldrunner1

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...
machinehead wrote:

By 'conspiracy of self,' do you mean our inherent subjectivity -- that we all see the world through the distorting lens of a me-centered point of view?

I believe there are some books on this subject, starting with Plato.

Yes Mike, you are correct in that there are many books on this subject. What I meant to imply is that one cannot learn this from a book, or from another (which pretty much makes my points fruitless, so I will shut-up now).

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Values
JAG wrote:

. . . their content does more harm than good, especially from a trading standpoint . . . . There is only one conspiracy in this world that really matters, the conspiracy of self.

Unfortunately, there is no book that I can refer you to for a better understanding of this conspiracy.

Hi, Jeff;

I am a bit taken aback by this tendency to measure the value of all discussion in terms of one's ability to log a profit on the knowledge.  If we take profit and economic advantage as our only goal, then we'd better hope that CM doesn't uncover any more shenanigans by the Fed et al, as dollar collapse will only hurt all of us, financially, whether we hold gold, or not . . . . . not only financially, but also emotionally, spiritually, and physically, in the form of ill health as a result of inaccessibility to the necessities of vibrant health.

But, if we're interested in the truth, well, that's another kettle of fish . . . .

I do agree that the "conspiracy of self" is the most insidious of all, but I must disagree about the lack of resources for remedying that malady . . . . There is a wealth of literature on that topic, for those who are sincere in ferreting out the beastie . . . .

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

For the last time, I will clarify my intention of my post.

I am not arguing whether or not a particular conspiracy is fact or fiction. I am arguing that belief in conspiracy does more harm than good, because it elicits emotion in the observer and accentuates the human flaw of distorting perception by applying a self-image context to what is observed.

If you doubt this, show me one person who has significantly invested in gold that doesn't fear some future event. The smart money in the gold market bought their gold many years ago when there was no fear in the marketplace, and have since sold it to the fear-driven dumb money. 

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...
JAG wrote:

For the last time, I will clarify my intention of my post.

I am not arguing whether or not a particular conspiracy is fact or fiction. I am arguing that belief in conspiracy does more harm than good, because it elicits emotion in the observer and accentuates the human flaw of distorting perception by applying a self-image context to what is observed.

If you doubt this, show me one person who has significantly invested in gold that doesn't fear some future event. The smart money in the gold market bought their gold many years ago when there was no fear in the marketplace, and have since sold it to the fear-driven dumb money. 

Again I disagree. Profit is secondary here. Discovery of the truth and subsequent correction of widespread shenanigans is the motive.

Evil propagates when good men do nothing. Profit is not a good enough reason to do nothing. On my mother's grave I swear that I would give every penny I have, and start anew, penniless, just to see the Republic restored to it's original intent.

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Re: Fed admits hiding gold swap arrangements (How Thick Can ...

Really interesting thread!  -Both in terms of the topic, and the quality  and clarity with which some of the points are debated.  It really shines the light on the nature and power of beliefs.  I think Chris recently said something to the affect that it has been his observation that if you stack up solid data against (strong?) beliefs, the beliefs usually win. (Hope I didn't mash that up too bad, Chris!)

goldrunner1 said:

" "There seems to be a phobia that encourages these words to be forever linked together as a catch phrase to dismiss real conspiracies"

Very well communicated. I might add that the real conspicary theory is that this conspiracy is a theory (suppresion of the gold price by the PTB). Where as in fact the very suggestion of it being a conspiracy theory is the "Real Conspiracy".

goldrunner1"

goldrunner1, I think my brain did a 360 as I read that, but once it stopped I actually understood what you meant!  I don't know if it's true, but I certainly do wonder if it is true.  I find myself watching and listening to MSM through an increasingly skeptical filter, asking myself "DO I really KNOW this to be true?  And is there potentially an alternative motive for promoting this view?  Who could benefit and how?"

I have seen/read enough evidence of deceit and corruption that I think questioning what we are told/sold as "the truth" is a very reasonable response.

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