Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

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horstfam's picture
horstfam
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Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

Dr. Garrett Hardin discusses overpopulation - a long, good article on the subject. He's been studying it for decades.

http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1979-05-01/Garrett-Hardin.aspx

Many good points made throughout the article.

 

 

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

 

 Very smart guy... we have a "game theory" problem.. as long as there are sheep.. wolves do fine...

 

 No more sheep.. = no more wolves.

 Evolution -> justice -> real progress.

 

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Have you heard of the Georgia Guidestones?

They're sort of an Americian Stonehenge which includes what many claim are 10 'New World Order' Commandments.

Number one on the list is reducing the world's population by 90% from 6.5 billion down to 500 million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

Quote:

The Georgia Guidestones is a large granite monument in Elbert County, Georgia, USA. A message comprising ten guides is inscribed on the structure in eight modern languages, and a shorter message is inscribed at the top of the structure in four ancient languages' scripts: Babylonian, Classical Greek, Sanskrit, and Egyptian hieroglyphs.

The structure is sometimes referred to as an "American Stonehenge"[1], though in comparison to the massive plinths of Stonehenge and the empty space of Salisbury plain surrounding that monument, the Guidestones are of a noticeably smaller scale.

The monument is almost 20 feet (6.1 m) tall, and made from six granite slabs weighing more than 240,000 pounds (110,000 kg) in all.[2] One slab stands in the center, with four arranged around it. A capstone lies on top of the five slabs, which are astronomically aligned. An additional stone tablet, which is set in the ground a short distance to the west of the structure, provides some notes on the history and purpose of the Guidestones.

In June 1979, an unknown person or persons under the pseudonym R. C. Christian hired Elberton Granite Finishing Company to build the structure.

I'm wondering if Chris has heard of this?

Quote:

A message consisting of a set of ten guidelines or principles is engraved on the Georgia Guidestones in eight different languages, one language on each face of the four large upright stones. Moving clockwise around the structure from due north, these languages are: English, Spanish, Swahili, Hindi, Hebrew, Arabic, Chinese, and Russian.

   1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature.
   2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity.
   3. Unite humanity with a living new language.
   4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason.
   5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts.
   6. Let all nations rule internally resolving external disputes in a world court.
   7. Avoid petty laws and useless officials.
   8. Balance personal rights with social duties.
   9. Prize truth - beauty - love - seeking harmony with the infinite.
  10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature.

Now in the light of our predicament the above may seem like a good idea... BUT how quickly do 'they' intend to depopulate the planet, by what means, and who gets to live or perish?... just a small point I would think!

Now just line up and take your swine flu vaccination shots like good children....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

Rowmat,

     Interesting post. Never heard of the optimal 500,000,000 number being in stone. I think we'll easily burn down through that number after climate change, peak oil, species extinction, and novel viruses take their toll.

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

 

 Thing is.. apart from the tricky 500K thing......... the rest makes sense.......

 and the 500k thing... is the real issue....... how to get there...... fairly...... justly.... humanely........

 and how to  maintain at 500k .... fairly..... justly....... humanely....

 Dowry... ? Dowry = gold.. ? 8oz wedding ring.. a bit heavy ?

 A just system for gold accumulation..... ?

 

 As I've said before.... what SORT of NewWorldOrder (tm) .. do you really want ?

 

 

 I want one that's honest, open to new ideas, diverse, treasures it's history, but aims for the stars....

 

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

People who can put a number (a nice round one at that) on sustainable population are usually "control" oriented, narcissistic, and unable to adapt to change.  Since the beginning of time on earth there has been continuous cataclysmic change.  Human population growth is one of those naturally occuring phenomina of nature where a successful organism reproduces until nature curbs that population(and believe me, nature will curb that population).  People that want to maintain the status quo are missing the point that change is inevitable and natural.

 

On a side note, isn't it interesting how these "population limiters" always reference an "intelligent" and "fit" population.  I have a hunch that the only population they want to controll is people different from them.

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

Thought a bit more about this...

 The prescription above presumes a global target.. but there is absolutely no reason population issues can't be addressed nationally/ regionally with each nation choosing it's own policy and destiny..

 ie the status quo is basically ok.

 The one caveat is that it depends on respect for national borders... - no illegal immigration, and no wars fought for "lebensraum" ...

 

 I see Dr Hardin makes a similar point..

HARDIN: My intention, when I wrote ''Living on a Lifeboat", was to subdivide the world again, so to speak. It seemed to me that the phrase "spaceship earth" was dangerous, as it implied that we were all passengers on one ship and had an equal right to the ship's resources ... which, of course, sets up a picture of a worldwide Commons. By adopting the metaphor of a number of lifeboats—one for each nation—I was able to imply that the people on each of these small crafts are responsible for themselves and should not expect handouts—even if those donations mean survival itself—from the other boats around them.

 

 

China is already managing it's demographics, albeit crudely and with much human suffering.. - 1 child policy.

Other nations do it indirectly through control of land, housing, or cultural trditions eg the dowry system.

So, while population policy is a serious issue, it's not a *global* problem looking for a "one size fits all" global solution...

it's localised..  no need for a central body (UN) to prescribe solutions from above.

 

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article
plato1965 wrote:

As I've said before.... what SORT of NewWorldOrder (tm) .. do you really want ?

Maybe one without the self-serving ego-centric maniacs at the top thinking they can control everything.for once?

Peace On -EGP

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article
plato1965 wrote:

... there is absolutely no reason population issues can't be addressed nationally/ regionally with each nation choosing it's own policy and destiny..

 ie the status quo is basically ok.

The one caveat is that it depends on respect for national borders... - no illegal immigration, and no wars fought for "lebensraum" ..

So, while population policy is a serious issue, it's not a *global* problem looking for a "one size fits all" global solution...

it's localised..  no need for a central body (UN) to prescribe solutions from above.

While I agree with your conclusion that a central body prescribing global solutions would be problematic, the caveat of 'respect for national borders' probably isn't realistic. National borders are porous, and presumably always will be.

Anytime a [relatively] rich, low population growth country is next door to a poor, high population growth country, migration will occur, one way or another. And not just from LatAm to U.S., or Africa to Europe. Even within LatAm, poor Nicaraguans migrate into middle-income Costa Rica, as do poor Paraguayans into Argentina and Brazil.

While various reasons can be cited as to why population growth and average family size tend to fall with rising wealth, it's still not clear whether this will ever happen on a global basis, or happen in time. The potential linkage of population limits with eugenics makes people nervous, quite properly. But letting global pop zoom past the sustainable limit (whatever it may be -- we don't even know, and it's a moving target) and produce a human die-off is a pretty grim prospect, too.

Global population is a subject that many would like to push aside -- 'won't be a problem till after my lifetime, so why worry?' -- but the human consequences of ignoring the issue until it goes away on its own could be horrendous.

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

 

 I don't believe the question is ignored.. far from it.

 It's simply not discussed openly and frankly...

  ie - "not in front the children".

 

 

 

 

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article
plato1965 wrote:

 

 I don't believe the question is ignored.. far from it.

 It's simply not discussed openly and frankly...

  ie - "not in front the children".

 

 

Ah, the health care debate that happening in many countries an the economic viability of treating a 70 year old with terminal cancer with a product costing $100,000 for an additional 2 months of life..... step by step until we reach "Logan's Run"  .............Of course all this is okay so long at it isn't my family member.

Changing subject slightly but still on topic, any fresh news of the East Africian drought??

Sarcastic barbs aside, this really does make me shudder.............

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

britinbe: If it was my family member.. or myself..... I'm happy to trade an expensive and fairly worthless extra two months of degraded life

for something of more value to my family..  community, nation , world.

 

 Diminishing circles of course.. but if the medical resources could be better applied to a local teenager giving him a 10% extra chance

of living the more interesting bits.. or a mother who has dependent children... take it.. no sweat.

 Complex value equation for the individual.. a bit easier to apply collectively... best tackled on an insurance basis.... ie before you know

which category you fall into...  then you can give an honest weighting.

 In the UK we have NICE to make those policy decisions,. weighing up efficacy / cost /benefit of treatments.

Apart from the orwellian name (nice = nastiness ?? ) I don't disagree with the basic idea... but as I say, the free market

insurance model has it's good points too.

 

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article
plato1965 wrote:

britinbe: If it was my family member.. or myself..... I'm happy to trade an expensive and fairly worthless extra two months of degraded life

for something of more value to my family..  community, nation , world.

 

 Diminishing circles of course.. but if the medical resources could be better applied to a local teenager giving him a 10% extra chance

of living the more interesting bits.. or a mother who has dependent children... take it.. no sweat.

 Complex value equation for the individual.. a bit easier to apply collectively... best tackled on an insurance basis.... ie before you know

which category you fall into...  then you can give an honest weighting.

 In the UK we have NICE to make those policy decisions,. weighing up efficacy / cost /benefit of treatments.

Apart from the orwellian name (nice = nastiness ?? ) I don't disagree with the basic idea... but as I say, the free market

insurance model has it's good points too.

 

Hi Plato,

My apologies, I should have been clearer, I meant the "its okay so long as its not my family member" in a NIMBY kind of way. 

Please also be aware of NICE, I'm from the UK as well and one has to remember the story from a few years ago, the breast cancer drug for aggressive cancers affecting 30 & 40 something women, it struck me as being a questionable decision at the time given the sucessful challenges in the High Court

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

 

plato1965 wrote:

 Thing is.. apart from the tricky 500K thing......... the rest makes sense.......

Yes, apart from the 6 billion person die off...

That's like saying, "other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" 

Come on! The whole thing is an abomination, as far as I'm concerned.

Let's take a look at some of the highlights. 


   1. Maintain humanity under 500,000,000 in perpetual balance with nature. (Translation: Never mind the 6 billion die off. Nature will be better off.)

   2. Guide reproduction wisely - improving fitness and diversity. (Translation: Eugenics is a good idea  - H.T.  Hitler)


   3. Unite humanity with a living new language. (Translation: We need to reeducate and indoctrinate the people - H.T.  Pol Pot)


   4. Rule passion - faith - tradition - and all things with tempered reason. (Translation: Rationalism above faith, of course)


   5. Protect people and nations with fair laws and just courts. (Protect nations with fair laws? Translation: World Government)

   8. Balance personal rights with social duties. (Social duties? Translation: Collectivism. Individual liberties are subordinate to the greater good -the ends justify the means.)

  10. Be not a cancer on the earth - Leave room for nature - Leave room for nature. (Translation: We ARE a cancer. Embrace the die off.)

Thanks, but no thanks

 

 

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Re: Earth's Number One Problem - Important article

Easter Island to curb immigrants 10-25-2009

The inhabitants of Easter Island in the South Pacific have voted to restrict immigration amid overpopulation fears.

These people actually learned sonmething!

"Located in the southeastern Pacific Ocean, Easter Island is thought to have suffered ecological collapse because its once extensive palm forests were cut. The wood was used to quarry and transport the huge slabs of stone that were fashioned into the gigantic religious monuments known as moai.

Historically the island experienced a collapse of its ecosystem, with extinction of many of its prehistoric species; these events were associated with over-exploitation of the island's resources. While it may seem totally irrational that the island’s inhabitants could not see their forests disappearing, humans today are doing exactly the same thing...

Southeast Water Scarcity Blamed on Overpopulation, Not Climate 10-20-2009

..."People were saying that this was a 100-year drought, but it was pretty run-of-the-mill," he said. "The problem is, in the last 10 years population has grown phenomenally, and hardly anyone, including the politicians, has been paying any attention."...

The 20th century was relatively wet, but the study showed that even the 1998-2002 drought was worse than that in 2005-2007.

The factor that has changed is population. In 1990, Georgia, which uses a quarter of the region's water, had 6.5 million people. By 2007, there were 9.5 million - a rise of almost 50 percent in 17 years.

The population is still growing with many people migrating into the region, but little has been done to increase water storage or reduce consumption, the study finds. There has been increased sewage discharge near water supplies, and lands have been covered with impermeable roofs, roads and parking lots, which allow rainfall to run off instead of storing it.

..."It was a lot drier in the 19th century than it has been recently, but there were so few people around, it didn't harm anyone," said Seager. "Now, we are building big urban centers that make us vulnerable to even slight downturns."

Mark Svoboda, a climatologist at the National Drought Mitigation Center at the University of Nebraska who was not involved in the Columbia research, said of the study's results, "This should be a wake-up call. If this is not the worst case scenario, what are we going to do when the worst-case scenario arrives?"

"The culprit is us - a rapidly growing human population with unsustainable consumption habits," Serraglio said....

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