Each citizens fair share

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No_Fiat's picture
No_Fiat
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Joined: Oct 20 2011
Posts: 104
Each citizens fair share

 I have to get this off my chest. Every time I check the national debt I also see this statement "Each citizen's share of this debt is $47,998.50", since we went to the total fiat system in 1971, all the money in circulation since then is debt money. Each citizen has not received an equal share of all the cumulative debt money that has been created. You want to talk about inequality! and who should pay their fair share. 

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1323
Envy....
No_Fiat wrote:

You want to talk about inequality! and who should pay their fair share.

I think you should probably step down off that horse.  We ALL have lived well beyond our means.  I figure everyone fits into one of several categories:

  1. You are in the lower 50% of wage earners and you paid very few taxes and collected many benefits without having to directly pay for them.
  2. You made a fair amount of money but are one of the upper 50%, that has paid a lot of taxes on behalf of those in group #1.
  3. You are in the top 5%, paid a lot in taxes, but are either politically or financial industry connected and made well more than you paid.

But all groups have paid less and collected more than they should have if we actually had to pay our way.  And if you happen to live in the US where our standard of living has been greatly subsidized by our having the ability to print the reserve currency of the world, then you really have not much to complain about as far as getting your fair share!

And besides, we have really been on a total fiat system since 1933 when it became illegal for US citizens to protect themselves.  So it's been a long good run.  Now we all get to pay the price. 

All the talk about the 1% is just plain envy.  When things really start to unravel, the difference will shrink considerably.  Most of the wealth by that 1% is paper (stocks, debt (bonds,loans,etc), and some toys (houses, cars) - it's not wealth unless you can sell it.  What we are all about to learn is to survive you have to work long and hard - we lived the good life, now it's about to get harder.

So let's look at what you might consider fair, and see how that all works out. The top 1% in 2009 was about 1.4M households with an average income was $960,000/yr.  The 1% pay 37% of the $250B in income tax.  So on average about $180,000 each in income tax, bringing their unfair pay to an average of $780,000/yr each household.  Median household disposable income in 2009 was 31,000.  So let's make all those evil 1% be like the rest of us and distribute their EVIL income.  So (780,000 - 31,000) * 1,400,000 = $1,048,600,000,000.  So now we will distribute it to all the other roughly 112,000,000 households.  That means in a totally fair US with completely even wealth distribution, you could hope to make another $9,300/year.  Not chump change, but not exactly life altering....  Would $9,300/yr make a huge difference in your life?  Note that the $1T  we can take from all those evil rich people is only about 66% of the benefit we receive from the $1.5T/year deficit that our government is currently running!

 

Sources for numbers:

http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/20/news/economy/occupy_wall_street_income/i...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median_household_income

No_Fiat's picture
No_Fiat
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2011
Posts: 104
 You have to get your facts

 You have to get your facts straight. First of all we were slowly taken off a backed monetary system starting in 1933, when it was made illegal to own gold, 1964 we were taken off the backed silver dollar, then finally in 1971, President Nixon totally took us off the gold standard. If you want to know why America was prosperous until 1971, check the historic income tax tables. A fiat monetary system only grows with increasing debt. No increase in debt no growth. Your explanation is only a list of failures of the band aid solutions to try and solve the sysmtoms that have been applied since the root cause (Federal Reserve System) was inacted. No more bickering, no more blaming the American people, no more band aid solutions, the FRS must be repealed.

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1323
No scapegoating...
No_Fiat wrote:

Your explanation is only a list of failures of the band aid solutions to try and solve the sysmtoms that have been applied since the root cause (Federal Reserve System) was inacted. No more bickering, no more blaming the American people, no more band aid solutions, the FRS must be repealed.

I don't think I said anything advocating band-aid solutions - what I tried to point out was that this problem has been building much longer than since 1971.  I'm also a very strong supporter of ending the Fed and  was at that first very cold  "End The Fed" DC rally. :-)  Your intial post was exactly like all those seeking a scapegoat to blame instead of dealing with the underlying issues, which you nicely articulated in your response.  While the system has heavily favored those politically connected, we have ALL benefited and lived beyond our means.  We need less pointing of fingers and envy of those that have more money.  We need to get back to a just system that doesn't allow anyone to take advantage of the government to extract money from fellow citizens.

No_Fiat's picture
No_Fiat
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 20 2011
Posts: 104
 If you also support the

 If you also support the elimination of the Federal Reserve System that is good enough for me. Because that is the root which is the problem.

ewilkerson's picture
ewilkerson
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 18 2010
Posts: 390
Basically, the debt crisis

Basically, the debt crisis boils down to two simple things, math and human nature.  People wanted more services than they were willing to pay for.  I know you can go and find all sorts of facts, opinions, etc., but really that is all it is.  The same has been true of the private finances.  We have been on a buying binge for 25 yrs. and wanted someone else to pay for it.  Now it's time to pay the Piper.  We default through inflation if the markets don't get us first.  My bet is on the markets.  I particularly liked David Stockman's interview with Chris if you have not listened to it.

Cheers All,

Ernest

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