The diversity of our individual opinions

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krogoth's picture
krogoth
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 576
The diversity of our individual opinions

One thing I have learned from this website, over everything is the diversity of all our opinions. We have many. Here is a quick breakdown of the way I see it, and what categories we all fall into

Ignorant masses
Total trust and dependence on the decision making of your government in your country to do the right thing, and protect your way of life. Follow every order, pay your taxes, wave your flag and live in a state of uneducated or misinformed
bliss

Informed basic education

Learning, realizing, thinking people possibly going to the next level. A basic realization or feeling something is not right. Still dependant on government thinking, but questioning decisions more and more

Educated and Concerned
Knowing more, teaching more. Helping others understand. Worried and looking for direction, or planning a direction. Collective thinking. Stronger distrust in Government but trying to make change in the existing system

Semi Survivalists
Partially depend on society, growing some stuff, having some animals and getting some provisions to try and live life as normal as possible. Not quite becoming individualistic yet, but moving in that direction based on events. A general low belief and trust in Government on a state or federal level, but still having hope to get through this in the shortest time possible. May be considering weapons for protection or already have at least 1 gun

Extreme Survivalists
Grow your own food, weapon up big, have a stock of food for 1-2 years or more (dehydrated or other) get off the grid, apocalyptic paranoia, absolute distrust in government and complete individualism seeking isolation from everyone else or possibly having a small to medium following. You may have a tub for the kool-aid and be considering renaming yourself to Jim Jones.

Doomsayers or world ending event obsessed
These are the people who want an overall reset, regardless of pain and suffering. Basically a world do over because we did it wrong the first time. This type is almost hoping for an apocalyptic event, a religious intervention or even a meteor hitting the earth. Typically generating nothing but fear, confusion, false education and wild unproven theories without factual information whatsoever. They usually don't care if they as well as the people around them die for the reset event to happen.

Now these levels may look as if the higher you go, from Ignorant to Doomsayer, is a proactive way of acting or evolving your personal life, but it's not. It's in no specific order of importance, and this is why.

When I was in the Military (US Navy) the very first thing you learn is no matter how much you hate somebody, basically your coworkers, this person may save your life someday. Put your differences aside and do your duty as a sailor, which is to save your shipmates and the ship. This stuck with me for most of my life.

The more we separate as a society, in any country, the lesser the chance for survival. In other words, if our ship goes down, we are all in the water. We don't want to be in the water. The sharks are in the water. If the ship is burning, you are all trained to be firefighters for this purpose alone, and I mean everyone.

The powers that be, with the decision making processes and ignorance, do know basically they don't want us in the water, but they sure as hell don't know how to put out the fire. We are no good to them in the water, or burned alive on the ship.

My point is simple. If you are a religious, conspiracy theory type, pro gun, pacifist, ignorant, educated, informed, greedy, giving, misinformed or any other type of person, this is irrelevant, because after all is said, discussed, fought over, agreed or ignored we are all in this together. We all live together here, and the Earth is our ship.

This is not an quick death, like a nuclear or biological attack. Then we just die or succumb to radiation instantly or within a few days or months at the most, This is worse. It's a slow death, with variables we don't quite understand or partially understand. We don't know because we never have gone through this in the history of the US at this possible level. A level that can go far beyond the great depression.

So do we separate as a society when we need to be together more than ever? Do we betray each other, let each other starve and watch our communities die or be victims of crime or possibly do crimes we could never fathom before? The arguments over this are endless.

I say if our worst fears materialize our salvation is education and proactive response on a community level first, supporting a larger social level later. Will we have suffering? More than likely, it's unavoidable the way things are going. Will we have death on a large scale? Possibly, in poorer nations and countries that are not suitable for agriculture or internal self support. Will we have chaos? Depends on how people react when they lose everything on a large scale, but usually this is not a good thing.

In other words, if you live in a country that is dependant on mass imports to eat, you may be in trouble soon. The countries that are safe are the ones that can self sustain a food base with no dependence or low dependance of foreign imports whatsoever for food or supplies. Can you name these countries? Not too many fit the bill.

If oil goes away, you can bet the Middle East is doomed. It's kinda hard to support so many people with sand. In Egypt, they have the Nile river, which for centuries was the source of all life and growth, but they also had a lot less people then. In Cairo alone 22 million people come into and leave the city everyday to work. That's a lot of people commuting into and out of a city, and this does not count the millions living in Cairo. That's like New York being practically emptied every day and everyone going home to New Jersey and surrounding States. Many other countries are in the same situation. Too much population with not enough self dependence, requiring outside imports simply for the basics. If this collapses, you can be sure chaos is coming.

Food is our most basic necessity. Food used to be our primary purpose as hunters and gatherers. We only did 3 things really. Hunt, eat and make new hunters, or babies. No different than a predator type animal. These were the 3 main things we all did, and that's it. The more these events unfold, and the worse it gets were simply being pushed back into what we were used to be. We are just evolved and more educated, but we are all basically the same with the same basic needs.

What will you be in the future? A hunter or gatherer, or a survivalist waiting for the hunters and gatherers to visit? Lets hope for all of us we can collectively correct this, the storm is not as bad as we thought and most importantly we are not severly retarded as a whole back to these much more basic levels.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

switters's picture
switters
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 19 2008
Posts: 744
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

Nice post, Krogoth. 

I think you're missing a key category - perhaps the most important one.  I happen to believe, and I think history supports me here, that the most sustainable living arrangement and approach to this crisis will be small, informed local communities that establish energy, food and water security.

The idea that one can be 100% "self-sustaining" in isolation is a myth.  There is always some level of dependence on resources, skills or products that cannot be acquired or produced independently.  Greater strength and security also comes in numbers, though of course there is a law of diminishing returns at work here.

There is an entire group that I would not call "survivalists" who are very much aware of this problem and actively working towards solutions.  However, they are doing it in the context of community and have decided that the exchange of ideas, labor and resources that happens amongst a group of informed and motivated people is the best insurance against the hard times to come.  

To be clear I'm not talking about living in a commune.  I'm thinking about small towns surrounded by arable land, with no more than 30-40,000 people, access to water and a reasonably informed population.    

krogoth's picture
krogoth
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 576
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

Thanks Switters,

 

And I said what you just did-

 

I say if our worst fears materialize our salvation is education and proactive response on a community level first, supporting a larger social level later

joe2baba's picture
joe2baba
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 17 2008
Posts: 807
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

good post bro

i just posted something on my blog you may want to check out

serfinfonetwork.blogspot.com

hope the baby is well

krogoth's picture
krogoth
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 576
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

Reading it now. Baby is fine, she is just a little sick because my wife is switching back and forth between breast milk and formula, and she has been vomiting a bit lately. Hopefully her tummy will get a bit stronger.


 

krogoth's picture
krogoth
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 576
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

Joe,

Sobering news, and I have been studying a lot of these conditions for quite some time. The arms deals are a special concern because arms for what? If the US sells to Taiwan, which it has under Chen Shu Bian's presidency, but halted since President Ma's presidency, start up again, it's scary for me to be an American here. Taiwan does not need defense, even though about half the country thinks it does because of the China threat. China going up against Taiwan would be like America attacking Jamaica. It's a no win situation for Taiwan.

Now as for the economics on this, China is getting bruised up a bit with a lot of these failures and bailouts going on, and developing cold feet. But they are so dependant on American consumerism, they might do anything to keep America buying. They have a gigantic cash reserve. But will we do a repeat of what Japan did years ago and have China buying up large corporations, icons and land? It may be all we can do to not kick the new power on the block. Luckily, the new Taiwanese president is pro-China, so that keeps us sleeping well at night. Sometimes you still feel a little weird here knowing that China could wipe us off the face of the earth in about 3-4 hours, if not less. Thats pretty quick for 23 million people.

 

 

Peace

 

 

 

rlee's picture
rlee
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 18 2008
Posts: 148
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

I like the post Krogoth.  And hey Joe - thanks for keeping me up tonight with that.  

It does seem to me that most of us here on this site want to be educated and more responsible people.  The fact that we're continuing to exchange ideas shows that there are people who still care.

I for one haven't given up just yet.  In the Crash Course, Chris says the next 20 years will be different - I say try the next 2!

joe2baba's picture
joe2baba
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 17 2008
Posts: 807
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

i dont think it will be military. they are smarter than that. why destroy something and then rebuild it.

taiwan has value as a manufacturing base. they just want the industry. i dont htink we will be in a war with china as we would be going to war with walmart.

it will be an economic takeover in both cases. as a matter of fact it is well under way. when they own our farmland then it will be done.

in thinking about it, would it change things very much if we or taiwan just exchanged the aristocracy we have now for a new chinese aristocracy? i have to say in light of recent events i dont think it would make much difference for joe the plumber.

china is basically uncle milties latest creation.

if the baby cant  keep stuff down give her pedialyte. it is a glucose drink. worked great for  my daughter

krogoth's picture
krogoth
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 576
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

Well the problem with China and Taiwan is pride. Pure simple pride. It's not the kind of pride you and I know in America, it's Chinese pride. A much different version. You see, Taiwan is a democracy, and the Chinese hate that. When Taiwan was being developed by Chang Kai Shek, the last person to fight Chairman Mao for China and against communism, he fled after being beaten with his army to Taiwan with a lot of the gold and all the last emperor's artifacts, which can be seen in Taipei to this day, sans Gold. So this is an old story, with old communist beauracrats stirring up shit in China about the ownership of Taiwan.

Taiwan is, for the most part, really taking a stupid stance on the democracy deal. We have democracy now. Freedom of speech, press, Internet, assembly etc. just like America, so in essence half of Taiwan is simply fighting to say "we are a country" where China is saying "you are a republic of China". Why fight China to be a country when you already have your freedom way better than Chinese do. At least not a fight right now. Wait about 10 years and China will become a democracy as well. It has no choice. Communism and capitalism are like oil and water, and China will eventually be forced into some sort of democracy instead of communism.

 

 

 

Stephen Lark's picture
Stephen Lark
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 27 2008
Posts: 44
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

Kathy McMahon (a.k.a. Peak Shrink) classifies the different types of doomers in her article Three types of doomers and fantasy collapse using the following axes:

 

I consider myself a philosophical doomer FWIW...

deggleton's picture
deggleton
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 18 2008
Posts: 250
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

This is an important topic because that diversity is a great and developable resource that can replace the complexity CM speaks of losing in a late segment of the course.  It's important not to get obsessed with likemindedness because what's really productive is arranging people by skills and passions and strengths, so that they can love what they are doing well.  Being in agreement about issues of the day often cannot accomplish that, and people wind up burned out and discouraged.

The common good isn't something to prescribe.  Like music, it is something to produce, each in her/his place.

Carl Veritas's picture
Carl Veritas
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 23 2008
Posts: 294
Re: The diversity of our individual opinions

 

The diversity of opinions respected,      as opposed to thought police.     

Unlimited wants and needs in a world of limited resources.

Social cooperation as opposed to coercion.

Liberty.

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