The Definitive Firearms Thread

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capesurvivor's picture
capesurvivor
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ammo

No self defense calibers or JHP at available at Walmart, and not even much .22;reminds me of before/right after Obama's election. So, are those 450 million rounds being bought by the government using up resources or are citizens buying up rounds fearing a re-elected Obama will go after the gun lobby?

DK.

CS

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please

 

Quote:

...fearing a re-elected Obama will go after the gun lobby?

I've been hearing this for decades, the NRA always threatening that someone is going to take away their guns.  What actually happened?  Gun ownership laws have been liberalized all over the country.  When will this scare tactic ever be done with?

Doug

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info

Good to know you have inside information that he is not considering changes in gun laws. I just offered it as a possible fear that others have that is leading them to acquire more ammunition.

If you know why ammo is now scarce, and much higher in price, by all means post the cause.

CS

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best I can do

 

Quote:

If you know why ammo is now scarce, and much higher in price, by all means post the cause.

I posted something about this on another thread the other day, specifically that a local gun dealer wasn't able to find .223 ammo.  I was answered with a number of offers to get some by people who had no problem finding in in their area.  As I understand it, the gov't bought 450 million rounds and there has been heavy buying of guns and ammo for years.  Ruger recently suspended taking orders because they are so backed up.

That's the best info I have, which is not all that authoritative.  As to motivation, I think it more likely that people fear society crumbling than the gov't suddenly going on a confiscation rampage that they know would be political suicide.  You know the adage, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I know that's why I've bought a number of guns and lots of ammo in the past couple years.  Even living in NY, I don't fear the gov't confiscating them.

Doug

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here's the reason
Doug wrote:

 

Quote:

If you know why ammo is now scarce, and much higher in price, by all means post the cause.

I posted something about this on another thread the other day, specifically that a local gun dealer wasn't able to find .223 ammo.  I was answered with a number of offers to get some by people who had no problem finding in in their area.  As I understand it, the gov't bought 450 million rounds and there has been heavy buying of guns and ammo for years.  Ruger recently suspended taking orders because they are so backed up.

That's the best info I have, which is not all that authoritative.  As to motivation, I think it more likely that people fear society crumbling than the gov't suddenly going on a confiscation rampage that they know would be political suicide.  You know the adage, hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I know that's why I've bought a number of guns and lots of ammo in the past couple years.  Even living in NY, I don't fear the gov't confiscating them.

Doug

Lee Bellinger addressed this issue recently in his Independent Living newsletter and it is fairly well known in gun savvy political circles.

"Federal attempts at direct gun control and confiscation have been defeated time and time again.  So now the gun grabbers rationalize that the Second Amendment does nothing to protect your right to buy ammo.

Federal regulators have been very busy making ammunition harder to get and more expensive.  The Ammunition Accountability Act, now under consideration in 18 states as part of a broader federally driven regulatory effort, would make all ammunition traceable - an attempt by the political class to limit what they see as the threat posed by private firearms. 

Put another way, the government is going to regulate the ammunition market, and you know what that means."

 

The Swiss have used this strategy and it is not surprising that the same strategy would be attempted here.

Confiscation will be the last step and may not even be necessary.  It's easier to regulate the ammunition or be able to trace any ammunition used or impose taxes or fees to raise the cost of gun ownership or implement regular reporting requirements to add to the bureaucratic burden of gun owners or impose other progressively more costly or time consuming or restrictive ownership requirements in a gradual manner so as to not alarm the masses and incite overt resistance.  These things take time.  Anyone who thinks that gun ownership has become progressively more liberal simply doesn't know the history of gun ownership. 

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legal changes since 1986

 http://www.gun-nuttery.com/rtc.php

 

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States rights

Doug,

My concern is that, while states are increasingly allowing permitted carry, the feds will trump that with ammunition restrictions. It will be the thin end of the wedge at first with more and more onerous restrictions, regulations, permitting, etc.

Game, set, match to the feds. Gun control without calling it gun control.

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MarkM wrote: Doug, My
MarkM wrote:

Doug,

My concern is that, while states are increasingly allowing permitted carry, the feds will trump that with ammunition restrictions. It will be the thin end of the wedge at first with more and more onerous restrictions, regulations, permitting, etc.

Game, set, match to the feds. Gun control without calling it gun control.

I have no such concern.  The Feds couldn't do it with firearms, they won't be able to do it with ammunition either. 

The States are already pushing back......

2012 Virginia General Assembly - Summary of Bills Relating to the 2nd Amendment

HB 20: Emergency Services & Disaster Law; shall not be interpreted to prohibit carrying, etc., of firearms. This adds the legal carrying, transportation, sale, or transfer of firearms to the list of things that cannot be limited or prohibited during a declared state of emergency.

Status:  Passed House and Senate.

HB 940: Eliminates Prohibition on Purchasing More Than One Handgun in a 30-Day Period:  Eliminates the prohibition on purchasing more than one handgun in a 30-day period.

Status:  Passed House and Senate.

HB 754: Concealed Handgun Permit Applications Removes Option for Locality to Require Fingerprints:  Removes the option for a locality to require that an applicant for a concealed handgun permit submit fingerprints as part of the application.

Status:  Passed House and Senate.

Combined with this one that overwhelmingly passed with quiet thunder on the heels of NDAA....

HB 1160: Unlawful detention of U.S. Citizens; Prevents Any Agency, etc., From Assisting In Investigation:  Prevents any agency, political subdivision, employee, or member of the military of Virginia from assisting an agency of the armed forces of the United States in the conduct of the investigation, prosecution, or detention of a United States citizen in violation of the United States Constitution, Constitution of Virginia, or any Virginia law or regulation.

Status as of:

03/10/12  House: Bill text as passed House and Senate (HB1160ER)
03/10/12  House: Signed by Speaker
03/10/12  Senate: Signed by President
04/09/12  House: Governor's recommendation received by House
04/10/12  House: Governor's substitute printed 12106379D-H2
04/10/12  House: Governor's substitute bill reprinted 12106379D-H2
 

So aside from F/A 18 Hornets dropping out of the sky on us every now and then, Virginia is a mighty damn fine place to weather the coming storm.

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Doug

Doug,

Go back to 1900 and move forward on ALL firearm ownership/use issues and then get back to me.  Right to carry is only one small component of firearm ownership.  And it pinpoints for the authorities exactly who the most ardent gun owners/users are. 

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evidence?
MarkM wrote:

Doug,

My concern is that, while states are increasingly allowing permitted carry, the feds will trump that with ammunition restrictions. It will be the thin end of the wedge at first with more and more onerous restrictions, regulations, permitting, etc.

Game, set, match to the feds. Gun control without calling it gun control.

Doing a quick google search I found no actual legislation at the state or federal level since 2008 restricting ammunition sales.  There are laws restricting magazine size in response to the Gabbie Gifford shooting in Ariz. (NY limits them to 10 rounds) and banning armor piercing ammo, but I can't find anything more onerous than that.  Most of the stuff I ran across appeared to be written by rabid conspiracy theorists.  I'll start worrying when actual legislation is introduced and not much then.  As I said above, anything too onerous would be political suicide.

Doug

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Any buyers remorse?

I am considering a night vision decision.  Thats not a rap lyric.  But I am wondering what those of you who have parted with hard earned dollars are thinking now - good or bad.  I am wondering about the PVS-14 series.  I brushed up against this topic before, but have decided to approach it again.  It just seems like a good idea, and actually just alot of fun too - which a can't say about some of my preps.

Thank you in advance for posting!

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Ammo shortage?

My thinking is that if there is a shortage of ammo (I have not seen evidence of one myself in Indiana) it's more likely due to more people either buying guns and a bit of ammo to go with them or by the folks that have owned a gun for years and yet never fired it or simply kept it loaded with no ammo reserve.  They may be waking up and deciding it might be a good idea to buy a couple of boxes of ammo just in case.

On a side note, a coworker informed me yesterday that she was buying a small pistol for carry.  She has never considered one before, but it seems that her psychic told her to stock up on food, guns ammo.  That made her a believer I guess.

Tim

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Night Vision ??

 I have also considered off and on getting some night vision capability.

My main concern with getting one of the expensive units is making sure I bought it from a reputable supplier since I would not know too much about the technical details and would be getting it mail order.  I have heard that you could end up with a sub-standard or worn-out tube if you deal with a bad supplier.

I also thought that there was just one manufacturer for each kind, but it seems that there may be a single supplier for the base tube but various manufacturers that assemble the tube into a usable unit.

Has anyone actually bought one of the high quality units like the PVS-14 and can vouch for a reliable source?

Thanks.

Joe

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Tim_P wrote: On a side note,
Tim_P wrote:

On a side note, a coworker informed me yesterday that she was buying a small pistol for carry.  She has never considered one before, but it seems that her psychic told her to stock up on food, guns ammo.  That made her a believer I guess.

LOL.  I wouldn't be surprised if next, the psychic tells the coworker to start giving her all those soon-to-be worthless paper FRNs the co-worker has in her purse.  It amazes me how few people can think for themselves.     

 

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Mas

Ayoob is one of America's pre-eminent shooters. You can subscribe to his blog at this interesting site. Here's the most recent post, with the usual suspects along a range of paranoia.

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2012/04/06/gun-and-ammo-short...

CS

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capesurvivor wrote:Ayoob is
capesurvivor wrote:

Ayoob is one of America's pre-eminent shooters. You can subscribe to his blog at this interesting site. Here's the most recent post, with the usual suspects along a range of paranoia.

http://backwoodshome.com/blogs/MassadAyoob/2012/04/06/gun-and-ammo-short...

CS

In the fall of  2008 I bought my first reloading press. 

Since that time, I've handloaded maybe 20K of pistol and rifle rounds and am now :"rolling my own" shotgun shells. 

And since then I've always bought two components (primers, bullets, ect...) to store away for every component that I shot. 

There's simply no way I would have dropped that kind of cash all at once on a reserve. See, in 08' I thought the SHTF was a certainty in 2009. 

When it didn't  happwn then, well, instead of jeering "Y2K!, Y2K!" (you know what I mean) I considered the extra time a blessing and slowly but surely used the extra time to load up on everything. 

Now I merely replace what I shoot. I have more than enough. 

Reloading is the way to go. I can store 10K of rounds in 20% the area that most folks would store assembled cartridges. Did I tell you that I also pay 40-70% of the cost that the average Joe pays to shoot?  

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paranoia

Hi Morph,

Long time no hear (or I missed you on other threads). 

Hey, no argument from me...I'm on that paranoid continuum! Just have not gotten into reloading for family-related reasons.

I'm going to be in Boynton Beach 5/22-5/26 visiting family. PM me if you'd like to meet for coffee and BS if our schedules mesh and I can get transportation. Limited stay, probably a long shot (about 300 meters....).

SG

 

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capesurvivor wrote:Hi
capesurvivor wrote:

Hi Morph,

Long time no hear (or I missed you on other threads). 

Hey, no argument from me...I'm on that paranoid continuum! Just have not gotten into reloading for family-related reasons.

I'm going to be in Boynton Beach 5/22-5/26 visiting family. PM me if you'd like to meet for coffee and BS if our schedules mesh and I can get transportation. Limited stay, probably a long shot (about 300 meters....).

SG

 

 

Good to see you all too. 

Buying ahead and in bulk puts me a year ahead of prices. So what I reload and shoot this year is what I paid last year's prices for. And in bulk to boot. 

The entiire trick for me is to take the edge off of ammo inflation. Watching prices on ammo makes me wonder how many reloaders that inflation has made out of ordinary shooters. 

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capesurvivor wrote: Hi
capesurvivor wrote:

Hi Morph,

Long time no hear (or I missed you on other threads). 

Hey, no argument from me...I'm on that paranoid continuum! Just have not gotten into reloading for family-related reasons.

I'm going to be in Boynton Beach 5/22-5/26 visiting family. PM me if you'd like to meet for coffee and BS if our schedules mesh and I can get transportation. Limited stay, probably a long shot (about 300 meters....).

SG

 

I'm just south of Boynton. PM me. 

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 Good article posted on

 Good article posted on Fernando Ferfal's survival blog. I happen to know that guy "Pete in Florida" who wrote in to him.  This guy Pete had another unfortumate surgery around that time so he's been away from CM.com for a while. 

I LOVE that Marlin 1894C. Great backup option for places/regions/countries where tactical rifles are banned by law. 

(For some reason the Big Boy picture that I sent him stopped being linked after a while.)

 



Pistol Caliber Carbine/handgun combos for Survival and Preparedness

 
Hi Fernando. I read your blog weekly, have read probably most of your articles, but I cannot seem to find any blog entry that spoke of cowboy rifles.
There are three fine manufacturers that I know of that make these pistol caliber carbines: Uberti, Henry, and Marlin. They also come in various calibers such as .38 Sp/357 Mag,
45 colt, and 44 magnum. I own this one, the Marlin 1894C chambered in 357 mag but also compatible with 38 special. It It’s also quite lightweight ( 6 lbs, or 2.7 kg) where it’s competitors weigh in at 8 and 8.5 lbs (3.6, 3.9 kg). I paid $554.00 new for one athttp://www.budsgunshop.com with free shipping.

For your information, here are the equivalent guns from Uberti and Henry:
The Uberti Model 1873

which, chambered in 38/357 mag holds 10 rounds with a 20′ barrel, but is generally about a 1000 dollars or so. You pay for the fancy cosmetics, that’s for sure.
Then you have the Henry Big Boy, 357 mag holding 10 rounds, 20″ barrel, at about $900.

The Marlin is the cheapest, and lightest of the three, and for those looking for a no-frills, solid shooting piece of hardware, then it’s the one that I’d recommend. But that’s me. The other two rifles are also fine rifles (as I have read – I have no personal experience with them).
These pistol caliber rifles are great guns, particularly the Marlin for both it’s price and weight. But here are the advantages:
Advantages:
– The are carbines, making them smaller and generally easier to transport (carry).
– They are large capacity for rifles.
– With a little practice, these lever actions can be very fast shooters.
– The have very little recoil yet still hit fairly hard.
– They are generally LEGAL in places where tactical (so-called assault rifles) rifles are not.
– The ammo is CHEAP so practice is easier to on the wallet to do.
– They come in common calibers.
– Pistol ammo is small relative to rifle cartridges so you can carry a lot of it.
– Reduced risk of over penetration vs an AR, an FN-FAL, or an AK.
– Can be used on moderately sized, thin skin game up to 100 yards.
Disadvantages: 
– They are generally effective inside of 125 yards. (IMO not an issue as most “sniper shots “would not be terribly convincing to a grand jury of evidence of self defense.)
– The are often very difficult to come by due to demand.
– Because of demand the markup on them can be as much as 100-250 dollars above baseline (approx $550, which is the cheapest I have seen).
– Slower to reload than a magazine-based system.
I have a tactical 870 12 Ga, a AR-15, and an AK-47, but I still bought the Marlin 1894C precisely because of the list of advantages that I just mentioned. My wife shoots it in 357 mag with ease and she is extremely recoil averse. Should the authorities ever decide to ban the “mean looking black guns with big magazines” then these may very well make it past the radar of the gun grabbers.
I could not more highly recommend that you blog an article on these after doing a little research yourself. The only downfall to them is that you have to be actively looking for them because they are in extremely high demand and most online gun brokers sell out of them within days (sometimes within hours) of posting an inventory of them.
Anyways, check em out. I just LOVE my little 1894C. It’ll still knock a bad guy on his ass at 150 meters. A 4″ barrel 357 magnum pistol will cough out full load Federal 125 gr JHP with a muzzle velocity of  1467 fps per my chronograph. The Marlin will spit the same round out of the barrel at 2077 fps, more then enough to address any issues of short to intermediate range personal defense.
I think you’ll find these pistol caliber carbines quite interesting once you investigate them.
Take Care,
Pete
South Florida.

Hi Pete! You know I did write about that in page 169 of my book “The Modern Survival Manual”.
I explained the advantage of the carbine/revolver combo, and its modern day equivalent the semi auto pistol caliber carbine or subgun and pistol combination.
If you have a 9mm carbine, in some cases you can get ones that use the same magazines as your sidearm. The use of the same ammo and magazines simplifies things greatly.
A couple points you didn’t mention about the pistol caliber carbine:
1) It has greater accuracy thanks to the greater sight distance.
2)The longer barrel takes advantage of burned powder better because it burns inside rather than out, gaining at least 100 extra feet per second or more.
You’ve mentioned some of the better known ones. There’s also the Rossi carbines which are said to be pretty good.

Keltec /Glock Combo

Storm/Beretta 92 Combo

As of modern day equivalents, look into what options you have in terms of carbines that use the same ammo and mag. You use in your handgun. Keltec does one that accepts Glock magazines, Beretta has an offering that takes Beretta 92 pistol magazines.
Take care!

 

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Regarding lever action rifle

I love lever action rifles and have zero major issues with them as home defense guns. I have a 16" Rossi with Speer Gold Dot 130 grain 38 Specials in it beside my bed.

Do not buy the current issue Marlin lever action rifles. Remington recently bought Marlin and moved the production facility and has not yet figured out how to make the rifles. Many are being returned due to major machining and assembly issues. The 1894c is an outstanding gun and there are lots of used ones on the market.

The Rossis are great, but will need some tuning. They are built on the Winchester 1892 design which was one of John Moses Browning's greatest designs, but the Rossis do not come hand fitted like the guns of yore. Which is why they cost about a third of an original 1892. Go to www.stevesgunz.com and either buy directly through Steve and get his action service or at least buy his DVD and parts kit if you are handy with tools and have a set of hollow ground screwdrivers.

Any of the above listed pistol calibers will completely penetrate anything shot with it at home defense distances. Know what's behind your target.

A barrel longer than 16" is not useful for a home defense gun.

For more info on lever action rifles go to www.leverguns.com

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Tycer wrote:I love lever
Tycer wrote:

I love lever action rifles and have zero major issues with them as home defense guns. I have a 16" Rossi with Speer Gold Dot 130 grain 38 Specials in it beside my bed.

Do not buy the current issue Marlin lever action rifles. Remington recently bought Marlin and moved the production facility and has not yet figured out how to make the rifles. Many are being returned due to major machining and assembly issues. The 1894c is an outstanding gun and there are lots of used ones on the market.

The Rossis are great, but will need some tuning. They are built on the Winchester 1892 design which was one of John Moses Browning's greatest designs, but the Rossis do not come hand fitted like the guns of yore. Which is why they cost about a third of an original 1892. Go to www.stevesgunz.com and either buy directly through Steve and get his action service or at least buy his DVD and parts kit if you are handy with tools and have a set of hollow ground screwdrivers.

Any of the above listed pistol calibers will completely penetrate anything shot with it at home defense distances. Know what's behind your target.

A barrel longer than 16" is not useful for a home defense gun.

For more info on lever action rifles go to www.leverguns.com

So true and I wish I'd have known this before recommending them in Ferfal's blog. I have a pre-Remington 1894 and it works great. My buddy at work has a newer 1894 and it jams like crazy. He's finally taking it to a gunsmith to have metal work done on it. 

Given that, I'd recommend the Rossi instead. Rossi is a great gun. When I bought the Marlin it was almost a coin flip. Price was the tie breaker. Rossi is sexier looking too. Kinda reminds me of an ole John Wayne western rifle.  :)

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night vision

Treemagnet,

 

With regard to your question about night vision.  I've got a pair of pvs 7-d goggles.  I love them.  I've used them at night to scout for varmints at the farm and to look for the mountain lion (yikes!) that ate all our chickens.  

The best recommendation I can make is to try them before you buy if possible.  From what I understand, most of these goggles are assembled from a hodgepodge of modular, interchangeable components.  Most of which have seen service.  Tube quality is the most important factor and can make a huge difference in the quality of the view.  

I got mine at a gun show and tried them first and have been very satisfied.  I paid about $2200 total for a gen 3 tube and auto-gating (decreases the brightness of the image if a bright light source crosses your view).  I use them with the head harness mount and an EoTech holographic site.  You'll want to be careful with a laser; although it works very well for targeting, if reflected, the beam can permanently damage your tube.  

And yes, they are a whole lot of fun.  Just looking at the night sky is amazing.  You'll see stars that you never saw and meteors too.  

 

Good luck,

 

Nelson

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lever actions, single action revolvers

I own a Winchester 1894 in .30-30. It shoots beautifully, and I am quite comfortable in shooting it. Eventually I'd like an Springfield M1A/M14 clone, but that's far down the line when I can have something that works decently for a fourth of the price.

I'm curious what you lot would think of a single-action Ruger blackhawk for home defense. I own a beretta 92 9mm that works fine and I enjoy, it doesn't shoot on point, always a few inches below from 10'. I think the trigger is heavy, and that throws my shots off. I'm wanting something that points easily and intuitively at close range, and is reliably accurate at longe range.

Thoughts on single-action revolvers for intuitive one-handed pointability and long range accuracy?

Thoughts on the 1911 .45 for the same?

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FAlley wrote: I own a
FAlley wrote:

I own a Winchester 1894 in .30-30. It shoots beautifully, and I am quite comfortable in shooting it. Eventually I'd like an Springfield M1A/M14 clone, but that's far down the line when I can have something that works decently for a fourth of the price.

I'm curious what you lot would think of a single-action Ruger blackhawk for home defense. I own a beretta 92 9mm that works fine and I enjoy, it doesn't shoot on point, always a few inches below from 10'. I think the trigger is heavy, and that throws my shots off. I'm wanting something that points easily and intuitively at close range, and is reliably accurate at longe range.

Thoughts on single-action revolvers for intuitive one-handed pointability and long range accuracy?

Thoughts on the 1911 .45 for the same?

Why not get a trigger job and have the sights regulated for the ammo you use if you still shoot low with it. I would not choose a SA for HD. The 92 is a good gun, but if it does not make you happy, trade it for a different gun of similar capacity that puts 'em where you point it. That's how I chose the XDm - it was the one that shot where I pointed.

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 Also, about the great 30-30...

 Also, about the great 30-30...

Here's a couple of articles for you:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/3030history.htm

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/taylor/model94_3030.htm

 

 

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Considerations

FAlley,

I just wrote a few paragraphs on this but the interwebs destroyed it.
Here we go again.

For any sort of conflict, a magazine fed autoloader will be preferrable so long as it satisfies the following criteria:
1. Durability
2. Reliability
3. Availability

The 1911 satisfies all three. While it's not the most modern pistol available, the clean trigger break, slim profile and ease of operation make it a viable choice, and while you're limited to ~8 rounds, being able to reload in ~2 seconds is preferrable to reloads that take between 3-8 seconds and produce two fewer rounds (as is the case with most revolvers). The 1911 will not be an overwhelming performer at longer ranges, as the drop at 50 yards is going to be ~16". So, if you're aiming at the "head" of a target, you'll end up hitting the abdomen. This is on account of the cartridge itself, which is not particularly well suited to extended ranges. The same thing applies to the .45 Colt, which is a common Single Action revolver cartridge, so all things being equal, the 1911 is probably the better choice.

The Single Action revolvers are, however, notoriously well balanced, accurate, mechanically simple and have a very low "height over bore", which means they'll instinctively point shoot with a fair degree of accuracy. That said, point shooting is a skill, largely depending on body mechanics that can be learned with practice, so the tool is less important than the training.

As a conversational aside, I'm not really a 'gun person'. While I pursue skill at arms, it's less because I like guns and more because it's what comes natural to me. That being the case, in a perfect world, the only two guns I'd bother owning would be a Springfield Squad Scout (M1A) and a Springfield (loaded) Operator in .45.

The only reason I use others in place of these is they offer advantages in the types of conflicts I see as likely in our future.
Cheers,

Aaron

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Posts: 298
I am a fan of the 1911 in

I am a fan of the 1911 in .45 for home defense.  When out and about, I tend to carry a CZ 75 in 9mm due to the capacity but for home use, I go with the .45.  The thing that makes me favor the 1911 is its bigger, slower bullet.  A 230 grain bullet traveling at 850fps will not penetrate as many walls as a 125g bullet at close to 1200 fps.  Still, it will penetrate several walls, so placement still counts.  There is a story on a local gunboard regarding a negligent discharge last weekend that saw a .45 230g HP round penetrate 6 walls, two doors and a copper water pipe before coming to rest.

For nightstand use, I have a full size 1911 with night sights and a rail mounted light.  The night sights are another thing I'd recommend for a home defense pistol.  In addition to letting me actually align the sights in low light, they also show me exactly where the gun is, and how it's oriented in complete darkness.  I like looking over at the nightstand and seeing the three dots glowing letting me know the gun is there and how it's sitting.

Tim

FAlley's picture
FAlley
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 2 2010
Posts: 90
thank ya

Thank you all for the replies. I've decided for financial and familiarity reasons I don't want to allow myself to own more than 2 firearms at any time, one handgun and one longarm. It's definitely nice to hear someone else who sees the 1911 .45 / M1A .308 being their two-gun ideal, though for right now I certainly don't feel underarmed with my current lever-action.

A question on point shooting, and Aaron specifically I would really appreciate your take on this : I hesitate to do a trigger job on the beretta because I'm afraid to put more money into a gun I may or may not keep. I know 1911s are famous for their slim grips, crisp triggers and natural pointability from their grip angle. Also, I've done enough research that I figure a 1911 trigger is every bit as good as a single-action revolver trigger (maybe better, because the 1911 bar trigger goes straight back instead of being on a curved hinge). When I shoot the beretta, especially from a one-hand hold, the gun feels a little too chunky for my grip and feels like it bounces more than it should in recoil, even when shooting slowly. Do any of you put credence in the idea that the slim 1911 grip allows for better, easier accuracy, one-handed or two-handed, whether that be point-shooting or aimed in sights?

Aaron M's picture
Aaron M
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2373
Point Shooting

FAlley,

The Beretta doesn't lend itself to trigger jobs. It's extremely difficult to adjust it properly and it really isn't worth the time, honestly. It will never be crisp and clean like a Single Action, or even consistently decent in SA/DA like the SIG. It's not a "flaw" really, it's the way it was designed. It can be overcome through diligent training and dry practice, but I honestly think from what you're saying you'd be happier with a different pistol. 

The 1911 will probably feel more comfortable in your hand. That's one of it's more commonly acknowledged "positives" is that it just has a good natural feel to it. One handed, it's still going to have some weight characteristics that'll make it less comfortable than a Glock, or M&P, but that's just simply due to the weight. It's not a light pistol, but the trigger should compenate for that.

Even still, it should be an improvement.

As to the easier accuracy, this is highly esoteric - every person is going to have a slightly different experience, but I'd say, for me, the 1911 has an extremely natural feel, point of aim and the trigger pull really makes it easy to drill with your support side only (SSO). If you do decide to get a 1911, do routine dry practice, but your main focus should be with magazine changes. You'll be doing them twice as often as most other shooters, so you need to be twice as fast if you're serious about it. 

A side note, the 1911 has only a couple upgrades that are "important". A tapered magazine well is one of them. 
This is because the straight mags going into a straight magazine well are significantly less forgiving than the taper you find on modern double-stack magazines. Under pressure, the 1911 is tougher to reload because of this. I'd also strongly recommend "Tripp Cobra" magazines. They're the standard for 1911 magazines, IMHO.

Hope this helps!

Cheers,

Aaron

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