Dear Congress

52 posts / 0 new
Last post
Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1503
Dear Congress

Dear Congress,

The idea of having insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions is so absolutely brilliant, I can only admonish you for not passing it sooner, and urge you to quickly apply this logic to other aspects of  our society.

If I no longer have to buy insurance until after I get sick or something happens to me, but can just wait until I do get sick and then have insurance companies forced into selling me insurance to cover something that is no longer a risk but a fact, well why not apply the same principles  to home owner’s insurance?

That way, I can save money on all those premiums I’d otherwise be paying for, and only pay for insurance if and when my house has actually burnt to the ground.

Brilliant!

Hey, how about applying this to lotteries!?  Can’t we just all be winners?  Why not announce the winning numbers in advance and then only sell tickets with the winning numbers on them so everybody can win! 

It’s also about time schools stop differentiating between students by forcing them to answer questions without giving them the answers in advance.  Here’s to putting an end to unfair testing and to start making all our students winners.  End this discriminatory practice now and force schools to give students what is fair, and that is questions with pre-existing answers.

This brings me to prices at the grocery store.  Things keep going up all the time and the American people have just about had it.  It is not fair to have to go to the store without having any kind of idea of what prices will be.  Grocery stores are taking advantage of the American people by having one price one week, and then slowly increase the price week after week so that we barely notice.  Well guess what, we’re noticing, and it’s time to end!  Congress must act now and force supermarkets to keep their prices at the very least constant and allow customers to bring in pre-existing receipts with old prices on them and have the supermarkets honor those prices.  To allow this to continue is un-American and unconstitutional.

But really, why stop there?  There are all sorts of areas of our society where we have rights.  We should have rights to cheap gasoline, free milk and baby food, education, and just about anything else we think up that is obviously rightfully ours.  Nobody should be denied any of these things due to pre-existing conditions. 

Congress, I really think you’re onto something.  I know this health care bill took all your energy, but please do not rest for too long.  There are all sorts of areas where your brilliant thinking could solve millions of problems, for millions of idiots who actually believe this B.S.

Respectfully signed,

Farmer Brown

Ken C's picture
Ken C
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 13 2009
Posts: 753
Re: Dear Congress

FB

You are not really Machinehead in that cow suit are you?

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Dear Congress
Farmer Brown wrote:

Dear Congress,

The idea of having insurance companies cover pre-existing conditions is so absolutely brilliant, I can only admonish you for not passing it sooner, and urge you to quickly apply this logic to other aspects of  our society.

If I no longer have to buy insurance until after I get sick or something happens to me, but can just wait until I do get sick and then have insurance companies forced into selling me insurance to cover something that is no longer a risk but a fact, well why not apply the same principles  to home owner’s insurance?

That way, I can save money on all those premiums I’d otherwise be paying for, and only pay for insurance if and when my house has actually burnt to the ground.

Brilliant!

Hey, how about applying this to lotteries!?  Can’t we just all be winners?  Why not announce the winning numbers in advance and then only sell tickets with the winning numbers on them so everybody can win! 

It’s also about time schools stop differentiating between students by forcing them to answer questions without giving them the answers in advance.  Here’s to putting an end to unfair testing and to start making all our students winners.  End this discriminatory practice now and force schools to give students what is fair, and that is questions with pre-existing answers.

This brings me to prices at the grocery store.  Things keep going up all the time and the American people have just about had it.  It is not fair to have to go to the store without having any kind of idea of what prices will be.  Grocery stores are taking advantage of the American people by having one price one week, and then slowly increase the price week after week so that we barely notice.  Well guess what, we’re noticing, and it’s time to end!  Congress must act now and force supermarkets to keep their prices at the very least constant and allow customers to bring in pre-existing receipts with old prices on them and have the supermarkets honor those prices.  To allow this to continue is un-American and unconstitutional.

But really, why stop there?  There are all sorts of areas of our society where we have rights.  We should have rights to cheap gasoline, free milk and baby food, education, and just about anything else we think up that is obviously rightfully ours.  Nobody should be denied any of these things due to pre-existing conditions. 

Congress, I really think you’re onto something.  I know this health care bill took all your energy, but please do not rest for too long.  There are all sorts of areas where your brilliant thinking could solve millions of problems, for millions of idiots who actually believe this B.S.

Respectfully signed,

Farmer Brown

+1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Dear Congress

On the flip side, at present if you have a pre-existing condition, you're now a slave to your employer and have no freedom of movement in the marketplace.  Because if you leave that job, you'll surely be either priced out of insurance or outright denied. And God help you if you lose your job..

Which leaves you screwed. 

Catch-22 FB. Your issues are 100% legitimate. But so is the one that I just mentioned. Yet BOTH problems require reconciliation. 

What can be done about it? How can these two conflicting issues be resolved? 

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1329
Re: Dear Congress

What can be done about it? How can these two conflicting issues be resolved?

Let the free market work.  The problem with the leaving your job is you have few options for health insurance due to state/federal restrictions that keep competition out of the market.  I left my job a couple of years ago and had only 2 choices for health insurance as an individual and both were insanely expensive.  It's important, just like all issues, to realize that the reason healthcare is so expensive is because of government interfernece.  Also the proliferation of HMOs completely hides costs of healthcare from the consumers.  But soon, we will all get to see the cost of government stupidity. Frown

MarkM's picture
MarkM
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 855
Re: Dear Congress

...or the child that leaves home with a lifelong disease and is no longer on the parents insurance.

However, we could certainly resolve issues like this without this travesty that is being put upon the people against their will.

The unintended consequences of this bill will be unbelievable IMO.

Absolutely correct FB, once we start down the road of "rights", where do we stop.  After all, life without a cell phone would put one at a disadvantage.

SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 2252
Re: Dear Congress
MarkM wrote:

The unintended consequences of this bill will be unbelievable IMO.

+3.1415926!

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Dear Congress
MarkM wrote:

...or the child that leaves home with a lifelong disease and is no longer on the parents insurance.

However, we could certainly resolve issues like this without this travesty that is being put upon the people against their will.

The unintended consequences of this bill will be unbelievable IMO.

Absolutely correct FB, once we start down the road of "rights", where do we stop.  After all, life without a cell phone would put one at a disadvantage.

I think entitlements being redefined as "rights" are progressively pushing out true inalienable rights. It took one poster less than a day to find a fatal flaw in the bill that several hundred goofballs in the hallowed halls of CONgress couldn't, or wouldn't see. 

Unbelievable. 

Farmer Brown's picture
Farmer Brown
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 23 2008
Posts: 1503
Re: Dear Congress
Morpheus wrote:

On the flip side, at present if you have a pre-existing condition, you're now a slave to your employer and have no freedom of movement in the marketplace.  Because if you leave that job, you'll surely be either priced out of insurance or outright denied. And God help you if you lose your job..

Which leaves you screwed. 

Catch-22 FB. Your issues are 100% legitimate. But so is the one that I just mentioned. Yet BOTH problems require reconciliation. 

What can be done about it? How can these two conflicting issues be resolved? 

Morpheus,

I am not sure how we resolve those issues, but I am pretty sure it needn't take 2,600 pages, bribes, special deals, threats, questionable parliamentary procedures, and the complete take over of health insurance by the federal government.  I don't even think it takes the federal government to fix any of this. 

Ever single state, even the smallest, have populations large enough, by several orders of magnitude, for actuaries in the insurance industry to perform their statistical wizardy, and to support enough insurance companies for there to be healthy competition.  In cases where there are not, it is due entirely to State laws that have made it next to impossible for insurance to exist.

I remember when I lived in Massachusetts in the early 90's and the State had done everything under the sun to make it next to impossible for anyone to offer car insurance there.  Very few companies bothered even trying.  As a consequence, rates were (and maybe still are) through the roof.  The same thing has happened in Florida with home owners insurance (at least when I lived there from 1997-2004) resulting in the State becoming the main provider of home owner's insurance, which in itself was/is a joke - there is no way they are funded for all the risk they've agreed to cover.

Thanks to the 2,600 page monstrosity passed yesterday, private health insurance will be driven out of business in the USA.  What happened in MA and FL for their auto and home insurance will now happen all over the country except it's not a car or a home we're talking about - it's your health and life.

 

Carl Veritas's picture
Carl Veritas
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 23 2008
Posts: 294
Re: Dear Congress

 

 

The problem is Congress cannot make the link between themselves  and the rising cost of healthcare,  so they round up the usual suspect  (the "free" market,  who else?)   and decide that what is needed is even more government intervention. 

 

 Medicare and Medicaid costs are off the charts and they are selling yet another "reform".

 

The Cato Institute has  an article covering     The Early Development Of Medical Licensing In The US

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1105&full=1

You might find  it revealing.        Note the date  when the article was published

 

 

 

 

earthwise's picture
earthwise
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2009
Posts: 848
Re: Dear Congress
Morpheus wrote:

On the flip side, at present if you have a pre-existing condition, you're now a slave to your employer and have no freedom of movement in the marketplace.  Because if you leave that job, you'll surely be either priced out of insurance or outright denied. And God help you if you lose your job..

 

You're only a slave to your employer if you demand that someone else pay your tab. If one pays one's own way then problem solved.

saxplayer00o1's picture
saxplayer00o1
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 30 2009
Posts: 4235
Re: Dear Congress

 

This part should really help those unemployment numbers:Sealed

Employers with 50 or more workers would pay $2,000 per worker if they don’t offer health insurance.

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Dear Congress
earthwise wrote:
Morpheus wrote:

On the flip side, at present if you have a pre-existing condition, you're now a slave to your employer and have no freedom of movement in the marketplace.  Because if you leave that job, you'll surely be either priced out of insurance or outright denied. And God help you if you lose your job..

 

You're only a slave to your employer if you demand that someone else pay your tab. If one pays one's own way then problem solved.

Earthwise, this is neither practical nor a resolution. 

Say you develop Type II diabetes. And you leave your slave employer to start a small business. What good does the freedom from slavery in the corporate realm do you if become a slave to pay premiums? 

Here's what I suspect needs to be done. First, insurance should be just that. INSURANCE. Not MAINTENANCE. Insurance should protect against catastrophic loss. Second, there should be no health requirement. Yep, you heard me. No check. If companies are competitive then the "costly cases" will be spread out among them. Then they can use broad population actuarial studies to factor in overall risk based on population demographics. Third, to address FB's issue, no one with a pre-existing condition can reap INSURANCE benefits for a set period of time prior to coverage kicking in. You pay the premium for X months prior to contractual reciprocation. This will minimize jumping onto the "discount at the last minute" plan. Fourth, cut out all non-catastrophic coverage and expose the market participants (the patients) to pricing. The public will demand that the 700 dollar physical be reduced to 100 dollars. Without price fixing, SOME physician will do it. And he'll thrive, while other providers die off. 

My 2 cents. 

goes211's picture
goes211
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 1114
Re: Dear Congress
earthwise wrote:
Morpheus wrote:

On the flip side, at present if you have a pre-existing condition, you're now a slave to your employer and have no freedom of movement in the marketplace.  Because if you leave that job, you'll surely be either priced out of insurance or outright denied. And God help you if you lose your job..

 

You're only a slave to your employer if you demand that someone else pay your tab. If one pays one's own way then problem solved.

I am a total believer in free markets and paying your own way but I don't think that is possible anymore for medicine.  You could say something like this in the 1960's (pre-medicare/medicaid days), but it no longer applies.  Now the government has so regulated and distorted the free market and insurance industries, there is no longer any way to pay a market price for medical services.

land2341's picture
land2341
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 20 2009
Posts: 402
Re: Dear Congress

You know I am angry over the methodology and very worried about how this will work out,  but I am as concerned about the lack of understanding on here.  

I have college kids with diabetes who graduate and then cannot get insured no matter what.  I have myself whose husband got laid off and my jobs do not offer health insurance COBRA is 1200 a month and if we drop it no insurer will pick me up because I have a preexisting condition.

The free market has not done s*** to help this issue.  This is not the solution I wanted but the free market zombies are as bad as the government will fix it zombies.   Figuring out ways to deny people care should not be the basis for anybody's bonus!

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1329
Re: Dear Congress
land2341 wrote:

The free market has not done s*** to help this issue.

How would you know?  We haven't had a free market in healthcare for quite sometime. We have states mandating what must be covered in policies.  We have regulations preventing competition across state lines.  We have FDA regulations on drugs....

Morpheus wrote:

Here's what I suspect needs to be done. First, insurance should be just that. INSURANCE. Not MAINTENANCE.

Totally agree!  However, most people have been so indoctrinated with the current healthcare and the non-free "free market" has been blamed that I don't see this happening until we have mucho pain.  I think we will have to have a total collapse before free-market becomes possible again in most industries  that the government has decided it has to save us from.  The question is do we become a communist dictatorship or will people wise up and return our country to it's founding principals.

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Dear Congress
land2341 wrote:

You know I am angry over the methodology and very worried about how this will work out,  but I am as concerned about the lack of understanding on here.  

I have college kids with diabetes who graduate and then cannot get insured no matter what.  I have myself whose husband got laid off and my jobs do not offer health insurance COBRA is 1200 a month and if we drop it no insurer will pick me up because I have a preexisting condition.

The free market has not done s*** to help this issue.  This is not the solution I wanted but the free market zombies are as bad as the government will fix it zombies.   Figuring out ways to deny people care should not be the basis for anybody's bonus!

I feel for you. That's why I tossed the fly in the ointment. But, here's the catch. You CANNOT expect to take out more on a regular basis than you pay in for routine care.  If you do then you're expecting someone else to provide for you. That's plain wrong. But it sounds to me like you don't desire a handout. Just some damn affordability! Amen to that. 

What needs to be done is to re-introduce market forces to DRIVE MAINTENANCE COSTS DOWN so that you and your husband can get the care you need at a cost that YOU can afford. (not at a cost that I subsidize) with no "damaged good" scarlet letter of pre-existing conditions. Right now, routine care for pre-existing conditions is absurdly distorted. This is due I believe, to pricing distortions caused by shielding patients from the true cost of care, cost shifting from Mastercaid/Medicare, cartel pricing behaviors, and evolved out of the "gold standard" health plans of the 80's. 

Trust me, I have personal experience with this. I was ER staff from 86'-91'. Seen the distortions. Predicted back then, in my early 20's, that this would end badly. And it did.

 

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Dear Congress
Morpheus wrote:
land2341 wrote:

You know I am angry over the methodology and very worried about how this will work out,  but I am as concerned about the lack of understanding on here.  

I have college kids with diabetes who graduate and then cannot get insured no matter what.  I have myself whose husband got laid off and my jobs do not offer health insurance COBRA is 1200 a month and if we drop it no insurer will pick me up because I have a preexisting condition.

The free market has not done s*** to help this issue.  This is not the solution I wanted but the free market zombies are as bad as the government will fix it zombies.   Figuring out ways to deny people care should not be the basis for anybody's bonus!

I feel for you. That's why I tossed the fly in the ointment. But, here's the catch. You CANNOT expect to take out more on a regular basis than you pay in for routine care.  If you do then you're expecting someone else to provide for you. That's plain wrong. 

What needs to be done is to re-introduce market forces to DRIVE MAINTENANCE COSTS DOWN so that you and your husband can get the care you need at a cost that YOU can afford. (not at a cost that I subsidize). Right now, routine care for pre-existing conditions is absurdly distorted. This is due I believe, to pricing distortions caused by shielding patients from the true cost of care, cost shifting from Mastercaid/Medicare, cartel pricing behaviors, and evolved out of the "gold standard" health plans of the 80's. 

Trust me, I have personal experience with this. I was ER staff from 86'-91'. Seen the distortions. Predicted back then, in my early 20's, that this would end badly. And it did.

I read the entire first bill and most of the second. Both are darn near impossible to understand. From what I'm beginning to now hear and read, I'm not sure any of this is going to help. If what Denninger says is accurate this should give you a good idea:

Carl Veritas's picture
Carl Veritas
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 23 2008
Posts: 294
Re: Dear Congress

 

I heard from a commentator on Bloomberg that we are the only industrialized nation without some form of nationalized health care.

We could always look at the actual experience of Canadian citizens    http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/socialized-medicine-the-canadian...

Our government is addressing the spiraling cost of healthcare  only from the demand side of the issue.  

 

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1105&full=1

goes211's picture
goes211
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 18 2008
Posts: 1114
Re: Dear Congress
land2341 wrote:

You know I am angry over the methodology and very worried about how this will work out,  but I am as concerned about the lack of understanding on here.  

I have college kids with diabetes who graduate and then cannot get insured no matter what.  I have myself whose husband got laid off and my jobs do not offer health insurance COBRA is 1200 a month and if we drop it no insurer will pick me up because I have a preexisting condition.

The free market has not done s*** to help this issue.  This is not the solution I wanted but the free market zombies are as bad as the government will fix it zombies.   Figuring out ways to deny people care should not be the basis for anybody's bonus!

I am very sorry to hear about your situation but I largely agree with Morpheus' position on health insurance.  Costs have gone through the roof largely because people think that medical care is free or at least it seems that way to them.  If the costs are disconnected from the consumer, there will be no market mechanisms to control them. 

Imagine the flu is going around and you woke up one day and had a fever of 101.  If you have insurance and there is no cost to see the doctor, would you go?   Now imagine the same situation and the cost is $50?  How about if the cost was $200?  What if your fever is only 99?  In each of these cases you need to make a judgement about the cost to benefit.  If there is no cost (or the cost is destorted), the decision process is broken.

What needs to happen is that insurance needs to cover the unusual or costly situations (like cancer or cronic illnesses that are no fault of the patient) and all other medical decissions need to be made as choices between the individual and his/her doctor.  This would allow doctors to actually practice medicine (instead of push paper) like they used to for eternity until 40 years ago.  If society decides they want to go that way, maybe all people can be covered with a high deductible, low cost catastrophic policy.  This would cost far less than 1/6th of our economy.

Why do you think that others should be forced to pay for your care?  Should they also be forced to pay for your food, water, and housing which are probably at least as important as health care?  We live in such a high tax, nanny state society, people don't feel obligated to take care of their fellow man because they feel the state should do it for them.  I think this causes much of the moral decay we all see each and every day.  When we live in a society that does not even believe in taking care of their own parents and grandparents, and instead feels no shame putting them in a home that is paid for by the state, we have lost our way.

There will always be people that fall through the cracks in most any system.  Maybe you think a free market system would be too harsh.  I am not so sure because I believe a free market system ( not what we have now ) would find ways to maximize value of care and if we did not have such a consumption based, government distorted system, we might all feel more like a true community and all be more willing to help out with charity work or money.  Then again, maybe I am being naive.

JAG's picture
JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2492
Re: Dear Congress

Just read Denninger....unbelievable!

Costa Rica....here we come.

Jager06's picture
Jager06
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 2 2009
Posts: 395
Re: Dear Congress
JAG wrote:

Just read Denninger....unbelievable!

Costa Rica....here we come.

+1 for Costa Rica

Time to pull the plug on this brain dead interventionist crap.

plato1965's picture
plato1965
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 18 2009
Posts: 615
Re: Dear Congress

 from: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/129690

 

 "The Federal Government’s proposed mandatory health insurance will mean mandatory vaccinations/immunizations. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) says that for anyone who refuses to keep up-to-date vaccinations, under the new health reform, you will not be able to obtain any health care you may need until immunizations are current."

 

So, ask your doctor if avoiding big pharma is right for you...

 

Davos's picture
Davos
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 17 2008
Posts: 3620
Re: Dear Congress
plato1965 wrote:

 from: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/129690

 

 "The Federal Government’s proposed mandatory health insurance will mean mandatory vaccinations/immunizations. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) says that for anyone who refuses to keep up-to-date vaccinations, under the new health reform, you will not be able to obtain any health care you may need until immunizations are current."

 

So, ask your doctor if avoiding big pharma is right for you...

 

Un-F*&#ing believable!

Tim_P's picture
Tim_P
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 23 2009
Posts: 298
Re: Dear Congress
Morpheus wrote:
earthwise wrote:
Morpheus wrote:

On the flip side, at present if you have a pre-existing condition, you're now a slave to your employer and have no freedom of movement in the marketplace.  Because if you leave that job, you'll surely be either priced out of insurance or outright denied. And God help you if you lose your job..

 

You're only a slave to your employer if you demand that someone else pay your tab. If one pays one's own way then problem solved.

Earthwise, this is neither practical nor a resolution. 

Say you develop Type II diabetes. And you leave your slave employer to start a small business. What good does the freedom from slavery in the corporate realm do you if become a slave to pay premiums? 

Here's what I suspect needs to be done. First, insurance should be just that. INSURANCE. Not MAINTENANCE. Insurance should protect against catastrophic loss. Second, there should be no health requirement. Yep, you heard me. No check. If companies are competitive then the "costly cases" will be spread out among them. Then they can use broad population actuarial studies to factor in overall risk based on population demographics. Third, to address FB's issue, no one with a pre-existing condition can reap INSURANCE benefits for a set period of time prior to coverage kicking in. You pay the premium for X months prior to contractual reciprocation. This will minimize jumping onto the "discount at the last minute" plan. Fourth, cut out all non-catastrophic coverage and expose the market participants (the patients) to pricing. The public will demand that the 700 dollar physical be reduced to 100 dollars. Without price fixing, SOME physician will do it. And he'll thrive, while other providers die off. 

My 2 cents. 

It actually works that way now.  This BS of not covering pre-existing conditions is just that.  As it is now, when you buy health insurance, you don't get covered for pre-existing conditions for, on average, 6 months.  Then, you get coverage for that condition.  And, if you had insurance before you change carriers, it counts towards that 6 months, so you would get coverage immediately. 

There are so many false arguments in the whole debate.  WellPoint got mugged publically for a 39% rate increase, but nobody said anything when the California DOI approved that due to numbers that supported it.  Nobody mentioned that WellPoint was actually losing money on that plan before or gave them props for subsidizing the coverage through negative profits.

Insurance may need reform, but it's not the root cause of the medical systems ills.  Most states had a DOI that requires proof of the need to raise rates before insurance companies are allowed to adjust them.  Billions are lost in the medical industry to fraud, but that was never mentioned as a problem.  Billions are spent on litigation, but nothing is to be done with that.  There is a CVS/Walgreens on every corner, but nobody is questioning how much money is flowing through the drug companies.

This bill had little to do with health care reform and everything to do with a power grab by Washington.

Tim

Mike Pilat's picture
Mike Pilat
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 8 2008
Posts: 929
Re: Dear Congress

this is insane.

Using the threat of refusing healthcare (and this is from the bill to expand it) unless vaccinations are taken is practically an act of force. I, for one, don't need anyone to force me to do what is good for myself. Especially in light of Bill Gates' remarks at the TED conference, this is rather disturbing.

I think a steady decline in the health of the already most-obese nation on the planet is virtually ensured. I don't trust Uncle Sammy with my money, my safety, or my retirement, so why should I trust him to properly decide what drugs I should or should not inject into my body? This is a violation of individual liberty on the most personal level.

strabes's picture
strabes
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 7 2009
Posts: 1032
Re: Dear Congress

The ghost of Thomas Jefferson died in 1913, and we're seeing the final, sick result of a system without him, that doesn't value human dignity and small community.

V's picture
V
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 14 2009
Posts: 849
Re: Dear Congress

I assume that the bill contains the provision making it illegal to buy meds in Mexico and Canada. That was the payoff in the original to get the support of big pharma. Anybody who read the whole thing care to comment?

V

Thomas Hedin's picture
Thomas Hedin
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 28 2009
Posts: 815
Re: Dear Congress

Using the threat of refusing healthcare (and this is from the bill to expand it) unless vaccinations are taken is practically an act of force

Have you ever considered reading "The Vaccine Saftey Manual" by Neil Miller (only get the 1st edition, the 2nd edition is cut, chopped, and has a lot of information removed).  I think he got a ton of pressure to 'update' his book and tone it down a bit.

I'll never touch another vaccine in my life.

rowmat's picture
rowmat
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 15 2008
Posts: 358
No healthcare without mandatory vaccinations?!!
plato1965 wrote:

 from: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/129690

 "The Federal Government’s proposed mandatory health insurance will mean mandatory vaccinations/immunizations. The Center for Disease Control (CDC) says that for anyone who refuses to keep up-to-date vaccinations, under the new health reform, you will not be able to obtain any health care you may need until immunizations are current."

So, ask your doctor if avoiding big pharma is right for you...

... and rationing healthcare to the over 60's?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soylent_Green

The eugenics program has begun!

idoctor's picture
idoctor
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 4 2008
Posts: 1731
Re: Dear Congress

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments