Crisis Simulation - Day 2

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JAG's picture
JAG
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Crisis Simulation - Day 2

(Note: This is the third installment in a series of threads designed to simulate an unfolding crisis. The purpose of the threads is to determine a "plan of attack" that could be executed quickly if such a crisis were to occur. For more information see Crisis Simulation - Day= -1  and Crisis Simulation - Day 1)

 


Simulated News:

Well, the town of Martensonville had a rough night.:


  • The local sheriff reports that all communications are down and that all of the emergency vehicles, including the ambulances and fire trucks are inoperable.
  • The sheriff department also reports massive looting overnight, with a few deaths and injuries from gun-fire as people fought over the remaining supplies. Most of the looting is being blamed on a biker gang passing through town. Evidently the older Harley motorcycles are immune to the effects of an EMP.
  • Someone said that the owner of the local hardware store, along with a small family militia, protected his store from looting overnight. The store is open for business, but he is not accepting cash, check, or credit cards for purchases, only barter. There is a line of people half a block long waiting to get into the store. The sheriff has posted officers at the store to ensure business goes smooth.
  • There is a fire burning just south of town where a large commercial airliner crashed yesterday afternoon. Reportedly their were no survivors. The fire is slowly spreading, but right now the prevailing wind is blowing it away from town.
  • The public health officer for the town says that more than thirty locals died yesterday, ten of them apparently from heart attacks, six from the aforementioned looting incident, and the rest of the deaths were critical patients in the hospital and nursing home. The hospital is chaos, and a significant portion of the staff left their positions to check on family members.
  • The municipal water treatment plant and pumping station has been shutdown.
  • Some of the non-residents that were stranded here have begun to congregate in the town square. Many are begging residents and businesses for food and water. Mothers are pushing their children around in shopping carts.
  • A few working vehicles have been sighted. The sheriff says that he is setting up road blocks and is confiscating all working vehicles from the public.
  • The “Smiths” house burned down early this morning. The surviving family members say a forgotten candle was to blame for the fire.
  • There is no news from outside the town.

 

Simulated Circumstances and Events:


  • If your on municipal water, you have no water or sewer service. Those of you on a private well, but with no electricity to power your pump, have no water either.
  • The food in your refrigerator is starting to decay. Frozen food is still frozen, but not for long. Older model propane freezers are still functioning, but propane is going to be hard to obtain.
  • If your on municipal natural gas, you no longer have gas to cook with or to heat your home with.
  • Nobody slept last night, with most worrying about family members and the security of their residence. 

 

Given this information, what is your plan of attack today? Also, taking inventory of your home/homestead right now, what else could you add to that Day Minus 1 prep list and/or what would you delete?

 

Thanks again for your participation....Jeff


Septimus's picture
Septimus
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

I had thought about this before but it is worth mentioning:

If you are stuck in place, as the scenario indicates, will need to be able to block the sewer line (perhaps at short notice or as prevention) so back-up does not rise into your home.  To do this really effectively, if you do not have a shut off valve or one way valve that prevents back-up, I am thinking of concrete in the drain (or actually in the pipe right below the basement - use sledge hammer and shovel to clear through) if caught without anything else. Of course, buying and installing a once way valve is sounding better all the time!

If one or more vehicles are working, definitely not using them since they will be confiscated, as noted in yesterday's post and confirmed by JAG in todays.

Take stock of the neighbors and assess how well we can rely in each other. Many of them will be trust worthy but not sure if there are enough of us to secure the neighborhood. Depending on the scenario unfolding, this may or may not mater. Sounds like some semblance of order is being maintained.

If order is not too bad, try to scout more around immediate vicinity of town on foot (won't use bike at this point since who knows if someone will try to confiscate those too), assess situation, volunteer to help if needed in immediate area of neighborhood.Work to help less fortunaye set up water colelction systems by using gutters, rerouting as needed, to collection containers (bath tubs, trash cans, etc.) I know there will be filtration issues.

Probably a good idea to be one of the helps is able and order is maintained. If order deteriorates or is not maintained, retrench back to neighborhood with close neighbors and try to maintain order in the immediate area.

SagerXX's picture
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

I'M NOT READY.

Man oh man.  

I keep bumping up against "But...but...but..!"  I am not ready.

All my thoughts now we're at Day 2 want to go something like this:

"Now that we're in SHTF, I know what to do because 

1. We're living in a dedicated community of trustworthy individuals who are on the same page (or close) and we've spent a year (or two) laboring together getting ready for this sitch.

2. We have the equipment we need (hand-pumped water, composting toilets, gas/oil lanterns, etc.) to live at least a halfway normal life.

3.  We're not coping alone [see point 1]."

Now, my wife & I could adapt in place for months.  But if things came to this pass, I wouldn't want it to be just the 2 of us (and the dog).  We have a good nucleus of people that could get through this sort of crisis (varied skillsets, and so forth) but we're geographically isolated and (as yet) philosophically unaligned.  (I suspect that if things continue to trend worse there would come various watershed moments where members of our community would "get it" and they'd have their "Come To Sager" moment, i.e., we'd have a long intense conversation about what I know, what I believe, what I've done about it and how they can get on board the Thrive Post-Fan Express [this includes my wife right now, who thankfully tolerates my preps but is still in denial/bargaining]...  Ultimately I bet we could have 20+ people.  But right now, the only people other than myself who are On It are the couple who are building The Homestead [see my Community Building thread].

So:  I'M NOT READY.  If the purpose of prep is to thrive not merely survive, then I lose in this scenario.

But for the time being, I will:

Stay close to home.  Set up rainwater catchment out of our gutters (to flush toilets, and for boiling to drink).  Keep a weapon handy in case of Mutant Biker Zombie attack (probably futile as I'm only one guy, but...).  Keep an extremely low profile.  We have 2 neighbor families.  I'd check in w/them but play my cards close to the vest.  If they have resources we could cooperate.  I'd be trying to figure out if there was a chance to get to the Homestead (if it seemed like the crisis was going to last) with one truckload of stuff (all our prep assets).  But that seems dubious (being able to 'rent' a large, still-running truck for a 20-mile trip).  Then again, I do have proper post-Fan currency...

Is this game ever a wake-up call...  Thanks Jeff!  And ouch.  Very ouch.  Undecided

Viva -- Sager

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

 Yes well this is a problem day .  My town is smaller than yours so situation will be different .  I must decide whether to help dig graves or stay home and guard the place because I have trucks that run and a  hand pump well.  I can tell you a whole lot of people would get their windmills oiled up .   My young boys are already making money on selling rain barrels ... Maybe they should wait until people really need them? I  could sell/barter water and rides in the truck and let someone else dig the graves and help can the food .   I might even start a  new business  Get the boys started building outhouses  from the old bank my son tore down  or  what do you suppose people would barter  for five gallon buckets and a roll of trash bags for pots ?  Is it ethical to profit off the situation ? Maybe not .  Are generators effected by EMP ?( You can bet after last winters big ice storm everyone is hanging onto their generators and have gas ,)   How about Solar wells do they still work ? A few   neighbors have those ?

  Many of the men are trained in Emergency things because of mine safety training .  They placed first at the national contest last year .  But still for our house we need a refresher in first aid .

  We also might  get the old tractor and plow a wind row  between town and the  fire/downed plane.  Or save the gas and wait to see if the wind changes . I  knew there was a reason to quit whining about all the old vehicles my husband has around here . He was given an old propane tractor a few weeks ago and I fussed about more "Yard Art " Shame on me !   You all I am feeling a lot better about living like poor folks in the boonies .  And it is helpful to think on these things before we are hit with a panic situation .

JAG's picture
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2
SagerXX wrote:

I'M NOT READY.

Neither am I buddy, not even close.Surprised

Septmus,

Good point about the sewers. I hadn't really thought of that.

Full Moon,

You continue to be a fountain of ideas and common sense. Thank you.

Full Moon's picture
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

 JAG,     Thanks for keeping me around , there are those ready to vote me off the Island the first weekand some worried I am using more than our share of resources .  

  The  last couple of days the kids are coming down with the virus so I have some  down time to be on here  and  today  found another good thing about choosing  a small community . The mail carrier got wind of the kids being down and left me a message  to leave a list if I need anything from town and she will drop it off .  How Great is that !

 I prayed for a place such as this off and on for 4 years while in Japan .   Then in 1994  My husband got news of a possibility of an early retirement ,we called home and my brother had just bought this place from a lady in the nursing home  for $15,000.   We have had to take it slow   fixing  it up because we are cheap and do it ourselves without doing much debt  and  it is no where near a show place  but we are 4 miles from my folks farm and we will be able to care for them when they are unable. They have taught the kids things like hunting setting lines for fish  etc. . They sometimes  ride their horses down and the kids also ride ours  their way .  We are in a wooded river valley with prairie pasture on the hills .   I did not think about it being a survival retreat and best to build a place to have the advantage of seeing  things coming . I was thinking on the line  of shade and wind protection .  If I was to start from scratch I would build a berm home near the top of the hill.

 Still  I see that a root cellar , ice-house,and smokehouse will be on my list of to do fairly soon .

 I recommend going to old estate auctions  you find tools and such there . They used to go much cheaper but now everyone is looking for the same things .  You will get to know the people of the community and have fun  finding the bargain of the day .   Maybe stay at a B&B   and get out of the city for a little while to see if you can stand it .

strabes's picture
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

ok, now that these scenarios are forcing me through the process, it's clear the idea of safely making it through collapse with a few smart people that understand, or just hunkering down by yourself with a bunch of stored food isn't going to work.  

seems to me the only options are 1) move to a transition town immediately where an autonomous survivable community is being built so that hopefully you're incorporated into it by the time collapse hits, or 2) move to another country whose culture already operates this way (the problem with this option is you're not part of their culture so you may not be accepted).

 

nickbert's picture
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2
Septimus wrote:

If you are stuck in place, as the scenario indicates, will need to be able to block the sewer line (perhaps at short notice or as prevention) so back-up does not rise into your home.  To do this really effectively, if you do not have a shut off valve or one way valve that prevents back-up, I am thinking of concrete in the drain (or actually in the pipe right below the basement - use sledge hammer and shovel to clear through) if caught without anything else. Of course, buying and installing a once way valve is sounding better all the time!

Now that you mention that, people dumping waste buckets into sewers will soon be commonplace.  Think of it... every corner will be like that scene from the movie "Christmas Vacation" where cousin Eddie (Randy Quaid) is emptying the nasty contents of his motorhome's septic tank into the sewer drain:

"Merry Christmas!  Sh*tter was full!" Laughing

 

- Nickbert 

(just thought a little levity in this dark thread would pick up the spirits a bit Tongue out)

ckessel's picture
ckessel
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

Yipes, I'm definately not ready but I can see I have done a couple of correct actions by happenstance.

On day 1 I filled the vehicles and got some backup fuel containers full and picked up some extra hay for the goats. I live a few miles from a small town and I know most of my neighbors. Last weekend we got the winter garden in and mulched. Also picked the rest of the apples from the orchard and netted about 250 lbs.

Power down is a problem. My refurbished windmill is not yet erected but I have an old hand dug well that I can bucket water out of.

The 24,000 gal water tank is full and gravity feeds to the house.We are on a septic system but will use water sparingly to conserve.

The 1965 Chevy El Camino usually sits unused is in the garage. I have taken a load of crap for all of the junk I store and that is part of it. But I tuned it up two months ago and it is a good solid vehicle with a rebuilt 327 engine. I'm about to avenge payback! The 1940 Chevy Coup still sits dismantled in the garage and is useless. The other vehicles are down due to EMP.

I have a 12V to 120V inverter that will allow me to use a car battery to run the freezer if it begins to thaw. It can also power my solar thermal system pump so we will have hot water and we can space heat the house if it gets too cold. The drainback tank which is connected to the solar thermal system has a wood burning stove inserted into it so we can heat the water and the house with wood as needed.The inverter is not sized to be able to run our well pump so the water storage cannot be resupplied without a functioning generator.

We have a year supply of wood on hand. The house has a lot of passive solar features. Unless the weather turns nasty we can maintain a livable temp without using any wood.

The Propane Tank is full but we cannot depend on resupply anytime soon so that needs to be conserved. The Propane water heater will be turned off and we will go with the solar and wood backup for both water and space heating. We have an old cast iron wood stove in storage. Tomorrow we will get that out to use to cook on and also we can put up the rest of the apples for winter as we pass the time preparing for what Jag brings us next!

I moved half of the goat herd over to a neighbors who lives a few miles away. The nine does and their 8 kids are here with plenty of forage.

Tomorrow I will go to my neighbors and see how all are doing. One has an old style gas driven generator and we will see if it will start. Then I may walk into town along the old railroad tracks. I will leave the bicycle and car at home to avoid confiscation. We have six months food on hand and fortunately have not butchered the cow as yet. Might be better to leave it on the hoof if power is in short supply for the freezer.

To my good fortune I came across the CM website last year and managed to solve the cash on hand issue with some buried PMs as well. We have two spare bedrooms to provide for family who will likely show up. Like Sagers relatives, they likely will arrive with head in hand! Oh well, there is lots to do and I can brag about my old beater Chevy!

Thanks for the thread Jeff.......this is a good wake-up!

Coop

 

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

Stuff to delete from Day -1 plan:  In this particular situation, I wouldn't have bothered to pay off the credit card bills and instead bought a little more PM's and goods with that cash.  But realistically, I would still see a situation like this as only an outside probability, and barring any special knowlege would not prepare much differently.

Stuff to get on Day -1 that we didn't: 1) A good woodstove, 2) an extra cord of firewood at my dad's place, 3) more food and propane supplies, 4) a hand-powered pump for my dad's well, and 5) a pair of 2-way radios.  Odds are the 2-way radios would have been kaput by the EMP as we'd have had them outside the gun safe so we could keep in touch, but it's something we should have regardless.  I'll be ordering some soon.

Plan of Attack:

Immediate Personal Plans - Set up a defensible environment for the residence.  In the very early morning or late at night (under cover of darkness basically) use shopping carts from the nearby grocery store to move food and goods from our rental unit to my folk's house, with at least two people armed and watching for trouble (it's only 1.5 miles away but would take several trips and several hours).  There's a risk of people seeing us move goods to the house, but IMO there's a greater risk of looters breaking into the apartment and stealing the food and other supplies not locked away in the safe.  Next, if I'm acting under the assumption that I'm in a more temperate climate or warmer season than I currently am (most people in this thread are much further south than we are in Alaska), we'll smoke and/or cook any meat that was in the fridge (or bring it to anyone in the close community with a working propane or solar/wind-powered fridge/freezer).  Generally speaking, the meat in the freezer will keep as long as the center remains frozen.  Then see if the hardware store or preferably someplace else less crowded is willing to accept a trade in silver or ammunition for a working woodstove.  Later in the day, go to the center of town and try to chat up the non-residents and get an idea of their job skills (perhaps pose as a town official trying to get information for relocation? it may be somewhat dishonest but our family can't afford to tip our hand yet).  What we're looking for are people with automotive, electrical, agricultural, hunting, or survival & military skills.  We probably have space and provisions to take in either two individuals or one family unit for the winter; if we find the non-resident person or family we have a good feeling about and with the right skills, we will offer room and board in exchange for their labor and skills.  The rules are: 1) For taking on the risk of bringing you in and feeding you we expect a hard but fair days work and nothing less; 2) leaking information to the outside about household inventory or assets is grounds for immediate exile (minus all previous possessions including clothing); 3) You can leave at any time with what you came here with but you will not be leaving with any food and there's no going back, and 4) No snivelling.  Snivelling may have been somewhate acceptable in the world that was, but things are different now.  We cannot afford to take anyone in who can't or won't commit 100% to the household.  Those who do fully commit and prove their worth to the household will eventually be offered full partnership in the household.  And probably their first task will be to dig a cold-storage cellar for long-term food storage.

Immediate Community Plans - Work with the like-minded members of the community (CM'ers for the lack of a better term) on an agreement for mutual defense in times of need.  Set up a meeting of this small community at a private place in the morning to hash out quick and dirty details.  Establish a regular patrol (primarily for early warning and observation, not confrontation) for the area(s) involved, and a response plan if trouble is encountered.  A few people on bicycles could serve as communication links between the members of the community.  Some suggested community rules could be:

1) The community CANNOT demand or take away resources from a fellow member... contributions to the community pool are always encouraged but must be voluntary.  

2) An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us and all efforts should be made to defend said members, or at the very least remove them from danger and provide them with a place to stay afterwards,

3) Knowledge of working electronics, working generators, working vehicles, etc. that may be subject to unwelcome attention or confiscation by the town or state government is to be kept within the community only.  Some of this information is likely to leak out after some length of time, but we'll cros that bridge when we come to it.

4) We will set up a private place or means for barter, exchange, and cooperation for community members only.  The hope here is that knowledge of certain prized possessions and skills of a valuable nature stay within the trusted community, and lessening the chance that such information doesn't spread to the wrong people who might harm said community.  Such information is likely to eventually get out, but hopefully by that time the community will be cohesive and a strong enough power bloc in the town at large that few will attempt to take anything by force or intimidation.

5) Once the community membership is first established, any new members must be asked to be brought into the community by a member sponsor.  This is subject to a secret vote requiring the agreement of 2/3 of the voting members.  If refused official entry to the community, a new petition is allowed in 6 months time.  Nothing prevents a member from taking in and supporting people outside the community with their own resources, but until said people are voted into the community they will not be supported with community pool resources nor should they be privy to knowledge about private community resources.

6) Any member of the community has the right to leave at any time, and without reprisal.  However, any resources already donated by that former member to the community pool are forfeit, and if the departing member has a change of heart it requires a 2/3 member vote for them to be accepted back into the community as a full member

That's all I've come up so far.  To be honest I'm really kinda "winging this".... I'm welcome to other suggestions or improvements on what I've written.  I have a few suggestions for the larger town/community I'll write up sometime tomorrow.

- Nickbert

 

 

 

 

robie robinson's picture
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

Any moment the constabulary will visit those with known food sources be it on the hoof

or stored. Expect those with sizable sources(farmers,ranchers) to be indentured by the

powers to their land with expected dates of production turn-over. This production will

also need defending from....

 

robie

I love my country,but I fear my gov.

Fear-the pain arising from the anticipation of evil

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

That is a very good point about the sewers ...One thing I've been looking into is window and door protection from home invasion. 3M Makes this film that is shatter proof it's called Shattergard  It is used in the cities in jewelry stores and store fronts in general.  A gang of thugs would have trouble busting glass and entering.  It is also somewhat bullet proof . I'm thinking I would give us time to react and maybe they would move on to an easier target.

It would also be good for car if caught  out of town...short term protection.  We travel in a motor home so it  seems sensible for us.

 

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

That is a very good point about the sewers ...One thing I've been looking into is window and door protection from home invasion. 3M Makes this film that is shatter proof it's called Shattergard  It is used in the cities in jewelry stores and store fronts in general.  A gang of thugs would have trouble busting glass and entering.  It is also somewhat bullet proof . I'm thinking I would give us time to react and maybe they would move on to an easier target.

It would also be good for car if caught  out of town...short term protection.  We travel in a motor home so it  seems sensible for us.

 

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

WOW. I just wiped the smug look of preparedness right off of my face.

Thanks Jeff.. I think. :(

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

I hate to brag here...... but I wouldn't be affected much at all.....  we're NOT on town water, our backup batteries are still storing solar energy and run the entire house effectively (especially now TV and internet is down and we use half the energy we used to!) and we have months of food IN THE GROUND, the best place to store it...... and every morning we get a litre of fresh goats milk..... and the compost toilet won't back up either!

The Transition Town Group has swung into action, organising those who did not/would not believe the collapse would occur to start planting immdiately with the aid of working bees organised by experienced Permies who have been doing this for years.....

At last, the Matrix has finally kicked the bucket.  FREEEEEEDOM!

Mike

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

congrats DTM.  I'm looking for the right transition town now.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

DTM ,   How well do you like the composting toilets and is one brand better than another ?  They are so expensive... it is not something I want to do with trial and error .

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

Wow!  Thanks everyone for the great responses. You have all given me a great deal to think about and process. I don't really know where to begin, I guess I will work my way backwards in the posts.

DTM

I hate to brag here...... but I wouldn't be affected much at all.....  we're NOT on town water, our backup batteries are still storing solar energy and run the entire house effectively....

I think you overlooked the fact that your photovoltaic array and inverter was fried by the EMP. If your using well water instead of a rainwater collection system then you might have a problem.  Not to mention that your homestead is looking more and more like a target for the hungry mob that is forming. Got firearms to protect all that you have worked so hard for? The Transition Town Group sounds ideal....kudos.  The Matrix, as you say, may be forming a private army with all their gold as we speak.

nkdroth,

One thing I've been looking into is window and door protection from home invasion. 3M Makes this film that is shatter proof it's called Shattergard

As one who lives in the proverbial "glass house", I concur with your idea here. The films are quite expensive however, but they could be a very good investment....thanks..

Robie,

Any moment the constabulary will visit those with known food sources be it on the hoof

or stored. Expect those with sizable sources(farmers,ranchers) to be indentured by the

powers to their land with expected dates of production turn-over. This production will

also need defending from....

You are a wise man. The populace of the major cities can be expected to "head for the hills" or country in search of food in this situation. Your farm/ranch would need to be "protected" by the local authorities. Lets just hope that they leave you some livestock in exchange for that "protection".

Nickbert,

I woke up this morning and thought to myself "I wonder what Nickbert's plan of attack is going to be?" You didn't disappoint my friend, thank you. Your a couple steps ahead of this game, I should have you write Day 3! Laughing Your approach to the non-residents and community guidelines are excellent in my opinion. Thanks again for the contribution, I have learned a great deal from your forethought.

Coop,

Another excellent contribution. I have to admit that I'm rather envious of your preparedness. Much of what I have only thought about, you have done! Kudos to you. Enjoy your hot shower, the rest of us are starting to smell a bit. At this stage of the simulation, I think your main decision will be (and the others that are just as prepared) do I share my resources with the community in exchange for protection of those resources, or do I go it alone?

Strabes,

You bring up a good question: Is the best way to prepare for this potentiality to get out of the country (beforehand) or to join a Transition Town movement? Personally its not really feasible for me to leave where I'm at, but every time I look at my daughter I question that. Its a tough choice all around, I don't know what I could add that would be of any value.

Full Moon,

Are generators effected by EMP ?( You can bet after last winters big ice storm everyone is hanging onto their generators and have gas ,)   How about Solar wells do they still work ?

I would think that modern generators with inverters would be damaged by an EMP, solar panels too. The old mechanical windmills that you mention would be in strong demand I believe. You make some excellent points about the need for outhouse and the ethics of profiting from your inventiveness and preparedness. I assume business would go on as usual, no need to worry about ethics in this particular situation...your just trying to survive like everybody else.

Sager,

As I stated before, I'm totally in the same boat as you and share your concerns of feeling completely unprepared for anything. I think Pete said it best with:

WOW. I just wiped the smug look of preparedness right off of my face.

+1....its time to work even harder at getting prepared.

Thanks everyone for your contributions to this very depressing thread, especially when there are so many other things to worry about in your daily lives....All the best....Jeff

 

lundsta's picture
lundsta
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

In our location we would be able to grow alot of our own food. Any ideas how you could protect crops/large garden? I was trying to think of ideas without having to trade protection for food. (Just in case) You cannot plan on everything in the community being organized.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

Lundsta,

I would opt in with the neighbors and create a sort of CSA group. (Communitry Garden) In that way the whole group will be in the protect and defend mode rather than just you.

Coop

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

I know a lot of people around will be thinking - "when will the #4%# government be here to help us poor people out," but this kind of situation will be easier identified by those of us who have some idea of what has happened. The Plan A my family & friends have in place is to hold tight until it is safe to travel so the thing to do for now is hold down the fort and all that entails.

IF they (the un-prepared) are collecting gas for emergency use (generators for hospitals, police cars and such) they won't find it here. We'll be getting around on bikes (some have e-power) and I can make up for what I don't have for food stored by putting up a bunch of glass we collected from a few houses being torn down . . which everyone thought was junk until we actually had to do something with it.

We do have some food stored and that would be better off hidden away so I guess I'm hiding food, gas and a few other "goodies" I can live without short-term. And I'll take down as many wind generators we have running this place as possible to also store away. After we've secured our own needs, I'd go to see if I can help others by taking some potatoes around to neighbors and let know "I hope this (situation) doesn't last long cause we're not prepared" (even though I may feel we are)....why let everyone know we're stocked?

I don't want others to know my house is warm & cozy so we won't burn wood during the day - only in the dark of the night.

I'll start making preparations for if this continues the "family emergency plan" is "if we can't comminucate, we'll be getting group 1 on X day after, Group B X day after and on   . . at xxx PLACE". I planned on being ready for "extras" but not too many. However, we can make toilets out of 5 gallon pails if needed and do other "survival" type things (switch to filtering the garden rain-water if needed in the house), carry water to the animals, use the solar lights at night. Their job has been to stock for up to a month and if they have to flee their places - they need to meet us at the alternative location. 

So that's the plan - we'd hoped we never had to use it but IF we did - there is a plan in place.  EGP

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nickbert
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Posts: 1208
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

More ideas for the community going forward:

Get a quick inventory of skills and tools within our community, and float some ideas for re-establishing some basic infrastructure and anticipating future needs.  See if we can get people with similar skill sets to form up groups, who can spend at least a couple hours each day (or more if the situation allows) on community needs that fit their specialties.  Have each group nominate someone as their team lead for the group.  Some groupings might include:

- Electrical: Perhaps these folks can focus on getting generators back online and perhaps one of the solar PV or wind electrical systems working again.  The EMP damage won't destroy these systems completely, and we should be able to get at least enough functionality to operate water pumps and a few critical appliances (like freezers).

- Mechanical: These guys can identify which cars/trucks in the community have the best shot of being fixable and work on bringing some of those back online.  Spare parts will undoubtedly be a problem, but for some vehicles there might be some workarounds.  Heck, I think getting a car rolling and popping the clutch might work in some cases.  Also identify non-passenger-type vehicles (tractors, plows, construction equipment, garbage trucks) that have simpler internal workings and thus may still work.  I expect getting enough vehicles working again won't be a huge problem... it'll be available gas and diesel supplies that will be the weak link for transportation.  The sheriff is soon likely to stop confiscating working vehicles and start looking towards confiscating gas and diesel supplies instead.

- Agricultural and food production: Self explanatory.... continue producing food, and direct us gardening noobs as to the best way to go about converting our available land to garden plots.  Many of these folks are also probably knowledgeable in setting up rain catchment systems, and can teach the rest of the community to do this for our homes.

- Military and defensive: Anyone with these skills and knowledge can help the rest of us establish defensive measures for our individual homes, and then for our community as a whole.  Our community members are likely to be spread out throughout town, so it'll probably be necessary to establish local squads and rally points for each region.  Develop some rough plans, procedures, strategies, and tactics for community defense, and establish a system for communicating across town via bike messenger or runners or something.  Once defensive preparations and plans are in order, expand the scope to explore what is needed for the community to project force beyond the community boundaries.... if riots/looting start up again, it might be necessary to go on the offensive. 

- Trade and resource management: This group could be tasked with cataloging and managing community resources, figuring out where and how to get goods for the community, and act as the "face" for larger trades and barter with those outside the community.  Maybe one of the business owners in our community can convert their store to a barter market for this purpose.  Heck, if the store is large enough they could set up part of it as a flea market of sorts, establishing a center of trade for the town.  They would probably also be the ones to deal with the town officials on the behalf of the community, and tasked with negotiating and coordinating any help the community will give to the town at large.  Word of some of the community's resources and projects will eventually leak out, and it would be important for the community to have a good manager who can throw the community's weight around effectively and make it clear that help/resources will be given from the community to the town but it will be done on our terms

So I'm assuming our fictional town is small-to-medium size, and the mayor or sheriff will probably have neither the manpower nor the will to attempt confiscation of goods and vehicles from a fair-sized community on the alert.  They will have their hands too full trying to prevent crime from getting out of control; they'd have to be loco to ask for more trouble.  Anonymity and hiding everything that you have from all outside eyes is ultimately destined to fail in all but isolated settings, so IMO for security's sake it's important to be proactive and make the community a significant (if not the biggest) power in the town.  Granted it's not a perfect option... groups from larger state and federal agencies who may show up at a future date will be harder to discourage.  But it's the best of several crappy options, and given some time we can try to expand our community's influence in the area to where we'll be considered too large and too indispensable to risk making into an enemy. 

- Nickbert

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
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Posts: 3998
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

I would go so far as to say the toilet is the second best thing about our house (the fact it's never hot or cold is No 1)

Our system cost AUS$2000 (though I now see on their website that they are up to $2450), and that was way cheaper than the usual alternatives used/enforced by our local authorities.  Our system is from here http://www.nature-loo.com.au/toilets/SYSTEMS/classic750.html though ours has a source separating pedestal not shown on the website..... beats me why, I know several people who have installed these and they are the ONLY way to fly....  totally odor free, and easy to maintain...

Mike

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Damnthematrix
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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

DTM

I hate to brag here...... but I wouldn't be affected much at all.....  we're NOT on town water, our backup batteries are still storing solar energy and run the entire house effectively....

I think you overlooked the fact that your photovoltaic array and inverter was fried by the EMP. If your using well water instead of a rainwater collection system then you might have a problem.  Not to mention that your homestead is looking more and more like a target for the hungry mob that is forming. Got firearms to protect all that you have worked so hard for? The Transition Town Group sounds ideal....kudos.  The Matrix, as you say, may be forming a private army with all their gold as we speak.

The transformers in my inverter are all toroid and use solid iron magnets.... how would they get affected?

No one here has guns......

People here know me well and would come for help, not to kill me!  So lucky not to live in the USA......

Mike

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Full Moon
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Posts: 1258
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

  Because of this thread , the husband spent a couple hours on his computer under solar flare and EMP . Then off to the shed to build some kind of insulated / aluminum foil boxes to keep the shortwave radio,generator and such in .   Said he would worry about the newer cars later.  Something about start parking IN the shed  after he had it done and pray we are not away from home at the time of attack.   Oh boy , He said there are not enough back up transformers and at the least amount of time we would be without electricity at least  3 months  when a big solar flare happens.   

   Not sure how it would effect us physically but pretty sure those with pace makers well....

  If any of you know different I would appreciate a come back  so he is not wasting time and money on this.     I now am considering a diesel generator instead .  Maybe plant more soybeans .  And learn more about the Gober Gas .

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Full Moon
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Posts: 1258
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

   If a person googles their name  finds them-self there very easily, with address and all , is there a way to be less accessible?     We are in the system  for sure  and it is not that we break any laws but Gee  how would a person get under the radar ? There is no way since we pay  our taxes and have s.s. numbers , is there?

  A few years ago we started paying for almost everything in cash just because it is no one else's business where the money goes but if we go to a cashless society and do not take a chip we could be in a pickle.  I am not normally paranoid  but this thread got me curious and don't like what I find .  

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JAG
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Posts: 2492
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

More doom and gloom coming...hopefully late tonight....thanks for the contributions Nickbert and Full Moon.

All the best....Jeff

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nickbert
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Posts: 1208
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

Full Moon-

You might want to point your hubby to these EMP commission reports if he hasn't seen them already (the first is the executive summary, the 2nd is the full report):

http://www.empcommission.org/docs/empc_exec_rpt.pdf

http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

The long and short of it is that while there are likely to be some very grave effects from a HEMP or mega solar flare on infrastructure, some effects on everyday devices (particularly on automobiles) may not be as severe as we are given to believe.  Anyway, while this scenario is a very high impact one, it is thankfully also a low probability one as well.  Taking some smaller electronics or spare electrical parts and storing them in (insulated) ammo cans or keeping cars parked in a metal shed or shack are easy and low cost things to do, but I don't know if it's worth going much further than that.  At least not unless tensions get very high with any of the more established nuclear powers.  While I haven't read the book One Second Later yet, I think the biggest effects of a HEMP attack or extreme solar flare would more likely manifest itself in economic collapse rather than a complete societal breakdown.  Riots, looting, and many deaths from starvation and violence are to be expected, but the country is likely to continue on.  Probably as a much poorer shadow of itself with a much lower standard of living, but continue nonetheless.

As for getting "under the radar", it may help to think about it not so much as an all or nothing situation, but more as just moving closer to one end of the scale.  Operating on a purely cash basis is good, as is opting out of a lot of the extraneous BS that pervades most of our lives (newspaper/magazine subscriptions, shopping club cards, phone listings, etc.).  Getting completely under the radar is impossible for most of us, so probably the best thing to do is just reduce your footprint and use a little (legal) misdirection when appropriate.  Sometimes attempting to remove all signs one's presence in the system will raise red flags with some and make you stand out more than if you did nothing.  Blending in with the herd is a lot easier than trying to be invisible Wink

DTM-

Being in a good local community is wonderful, but what's to stop people who aren't local (and don't know you) from threatening your family or taking your resources?  Or some arrogant provincial or national official from 'nationalizing' your resources in times of emergency?  I envy many aspects of your situation and how you've reduced your exposure to many potential unpleasant situations, but you seem to speak as though you're mostly insulated from violence in the wider world.  Guns aren't a prerequisite for crime, just as the US doesn't have a monopoly on violence.  You may have improved your odds, but you and your community still should make it a priority to be mentally and physically prepared if the odds just happen to not go your way.

Jeff-

Thanks for the encouragement.  Looking forward to the next installment...

- Nickbert

 

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Wayne Grow
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Posts: 21
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 2

Quick thoughts:

1) I keep a can of black spray paint in the "closet" with thoughts of blacking out all the windows as a spectacle like this unfolds. I'm sure it would get dreary with less day light  during the day, but you could still slide many of them open and I think this is outweighed by the benefit that you will not broadcast your activities to those outside your home.  I'm certain the night will be the most dangerous and I don't want people being able to easily tell which rooms have a candle going/when we've gone to sleep.

2)nightvision anyone?  of course very expensive and not EMP resistant, but otherwise could be a lifesaver.

3)a dog will be very valuable as the burglar alarm, giving you precious time to react to threats day or night.(keep in mind the home security systems of most will be out from the EMP or system back-up batteries quickly drained)

4) This TV movie series is a fantastic watch(albeit sometimes a tad far-fetched)but none-the-less a very similar scenario with EMP and all, and how a small town reacts to the ordeal: 

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jericho_%28TV_series%29         -can be rented from Netflix etc.

what a fantastic communtiy.  thanks JAG, CM .....DAVOS.................and everyone else!!!!!!

 

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