Crisis Simulation - Day 1

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Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Note: This is the second in a series of threads designed to simulate an unfolding crisis. The purpose of the threads is to determine a "plan of attack" that could be executed quickly if such a crisis were to occur. For more information see Crisis Simulation - Day= -1 .

Also, I forgot to mention one important detail about this simulation: We are going to pretend that we all live in the same geographic community. As this simulated crisis unfolds, there will be many decisions that we will have to make as a community.

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                                                                                            Crisis Simulation- Day 1

Simulated News:

  • This morning, there is news of an impending terrorist attack all over the blogosphere. A few mainstream media news outlets have mentioned it, but most refrain from reporting the rumors.
  • The stock market is crashing. Gold continues to soar in price.
  • There are reports that the domestic military and National Guard are beginning to be mobilized.

Simulated Circumstances and Events

  • You are very concerned about the situation, and decide that while everybody else is making a run on the banks to get cash, you need to make one more shopping trip to get everything that you put-off buying yesterday.
  • You have to make the decision on whether you are going to leave or stay put. 
  • Your gold dealer shut his door because he is sold out and can't obtain any more PMs.

 

So based on this information, please answer the following questions:

  • Assuming that it will be chaos at the grocery store or mega-store, what items do you put the highest priority on attaining? List your top 10 most wanted items and be specific about what they are and why you prioritize them the way you do.
  • At the hardware store, what do you plan to purchase and why?
  • Any other specialty stores that you plan to shop at?
  • If you plan to build up a barter inventory, what do you buy? What items would best serve as a "local currency" if their is a shortage of cash / PMs?
  • If you decide to leave, what are you taking with you and why? Where do you plan to go and why?
  • If you plan to shelter in place, what preparations do you make at your home / homestead and why?

Thanks again for your input....Jeff

 

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Crisis Simulation - Day 1 Update

Situation Update:

In the midst of your preparations:

  • All electrical power goes down.
  • All vehicles built in the last 30 years stop working. Cars are pilled up on the interstate.
  • All modern generators fail to start.
  • All operating photovoltaic and wind turbine power systems go down. Your inverter fails, so you don't even have access to any power that is in your battery bank.
  • All TV, Radio, Ham radio, cell phones, and land lines cease to operate.
  • Anything that has solid-state electronics in it is no longer functioning.

Welcome to Crisis Simulation Day 1.

Now what?

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Wow.  That doesn't leave much functioning.  I'm going to cheat and say I have a teensy l'il AM transistor radio that I kept in an ammo can which'd keep the EMP (I'm assuming an EMP knocked out all the electronics) from harming it.  I'd check for news while I packed a daypack and a few liters of water from my supply on hand.  Then I'd ride my mountain bike around to the nearby houses of all the CMers I had the good sense to live near to see how they are and to formulate a plan of action.  Could very well be that for now folks will want to stick close to home, but I'd also plant a seed that perhaps we should double up as space allows at the most 'hunker-ready' houses.  (Fr'instance, at our house we have a woodstove that'd allow us to heat the place and cook, and we have 2 free bedrooms [and a rumpus room that could sleep 2-4 people]...so if folks wanted to cluster up for security/company, our house would be a decent place to go.)  

If folks indeed thought that was a good idea, I'd collaborate w/them on how to get critical supplies or whatever from their place to mine (bicycle?  wagon?  wheelbarrow?)...  

I'd keep checking the radio for news and clues...

Viva -- Sager

nb:  3rd sentence edited for clarity & completeness

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

I would be very sorry that I had not bought more hay and animal feed on day-1. The first thing to do would be to make an inventory of local resources and set up an alternative communication system. Is the land-line phone system up and running? I would ride my bike or my horse around the neighborhood to see what resources were available and I would make a list of them. I would ride the five miles to town to see what the police had available and to establish a regular time for our neighborhood to check in with them. l would tell them who in our neighborhood had old vehicles without electronic elements. I know there are a few. 

We should all have bikes and ham radios, by the way, but starting on day minus one doesn't give us time so we should all be getting ready for that now. 

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Meeting Tonight at Sager's Place.
SagerXX wrote:

I'm going to cheat and say I have a teensy l'il AM transistor radio that I kept in an ammo can which'd keep the EMP (I'm assuming an EMP knocked out all the electronics) from harming it.  

The only problem with that is there are no stations broadcasting....dead air.

I agree that we should all get together and get organized. Perhaps we should have designated an emergency meeting place and time back when we had communications. For now, Sager and I will ride our bikes around the town of Martensonville and notify everyone of a meeting tonight by word of mouth. We can "recon" the town's situation as we do this. We will all meet at Sager's tonight and everyone should bring some food from their no-longer functioning freezer for a BBQ feast. (hope you don't mind Sager)

Does anyone have a functioning classic car circa 1960s-70s?

 

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

 Ah  we do have  a few 70 's-50's trucks and horses  for back up  . I would have to drive around  to check on the folks and  neighbors , gather up my kids  that  live in town  and pray for my daughter stuck in NYC Little I can do for her from here .

     If it is summer I would have to get busy canning all the meat in the freezer and start the smoker .  We have a usable pump well and rain water in all the barrels . Work hard while the sun shines and be ready for bed at dark .  Listen to my husband curse because he can't sleep without a fan and winding down in front of the boob tube . 

But it reminds me I better get a solar fencer to keep the animals from wandering to far maybe not such a big deal . Not many will be driving around to hit them.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

 Oh yes we would need to go down the road and help the  dairy  with milking  .  Their family is no where big enough to milk 120 cows twice a day by hand .

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Ok, I guess it would really depend if I was at work or at home.  I guess I'll assume I was at home.

(in order)

1) Send the wife and baby to spend the day with my dad and stepmom (it's less than 2 miles away but they'd still probably take the car).  To be on the safe side they will take the shotgun with some extra shells with them, in addition to our bug-out-bags and anything needed for the day (formula, diapers, clothes).  Have my wife and dad and stepmom call up as many family and friends and fellow CM'ers possible to make sure they're alright and warn them of the potentially bad situation.

2) Secure household valuables (the smaller stuff anyway) in the gun safe before I leave the house for emergency shopping.  Probably include whatever home documents aren't already in there, picture albums, our Brunton solar charger, my personal and my work laptops and data storage, my home PC (it's a Shuttle case so it'd fit though the monitor won't), and my Xbox and games if it'll fit in with the other crap.  Take out half of the emergency cash and one of my handguns for conceal carry.  If anyone breaks into the place they'll get the large tv but not much else of value.

3) Take our existing inventory list and the "more-stuff-to-get" list, lockup the place, and head out shopping.  Primary focus is to avoid anyplace with overly large crowds.... banks and most grocery stores.  Places to stop in order:

3a) Gun shop - Take the list I made yesterday and get whatever is on the list that's available.  Fill out the background check paperwork, and while that's processing (usually is quick but given the circumstances could take a couple hours or more), take a trip to the...

3b) Grocery/department store - Anything except Walmart... the one near our place is a nightmare even on normal days.  Just a standard all-purpose store like Fred Meyer or Target.  If it's really crowded, don't even stop.  Just keep moving.  If it's not crowded or I find another type of store that's less crowded (Walgreens maybe?), focus more on non-food consumables on the "to-get" list (baby needs and cold weather clothing are priorities) and pick up any prescriptions my folks might need but haven't picked up yet (ask them to call it in ahead of time).  Now head to...

3c) Liquor store - Get perhaps a dozen or two bottles of higher-end liquors, and the same amount of cheaper high-proof liquor.  Mostly with barter in mind; my wife said when her home country's currency collapsed, alcohol was highly valuable (kinda screwy priorities IMO but if it's what the people want...).  Get 2 twelve-packs of one of my favored beers; I'll probably want several beers at the end of this day.  Next stop is the...

3d) Gun shop - Come back to pick up my purchases, with some boxes of ammo if some are available.  If the background check still hasn't gone through, tell them I'll pick it up later today or early tomorrow and head straight home.  As the day progresses things will likely get more chaotic and traffic jams and accidents are more likely to occur, so try to be back home before lunchtime.  Now...

3e) Drive back home - Unload the truck.  Spend the next couple hours putting the purchases away, filling the collapsible water jugs if I hadn't already done so yesterday, and updating the inventory list.  Turn on the tv or radio to listen for new developments while I work.  Once that's done head back out to make another shopping run to the hardware and grocery store and pick up my order at the gun shop if it wasn't ready before.  I assume that the EMP would strike during this 2nd trip or earlier that afternoon while at home (hopefully it wasn't earlier during the 1st trip, otherwise I'd be pushing all that stuff a few miles in a shopping cart Frown).

4) Change of plans.  If I'm out shopping, make sure the truck is parked safely off the road, take out whatever high-priority stuff (cold weather gear I keep in the trunk is at the top of the list) I can carry or push by cart, and hoof it to my parent's place immediately.  Maybe catch a ride if possible, as old 70's and early 80's cars and pickups are still somewhat common here.  If I'm already home, lock up the place and run over to the family.  Make sure they're alright and confirm that their electricity and electronic devices are also FUBAR, and if they still have running water fill up the bathtub and any other available containers.  Turn off the gas and leave the water running at a trickle (so pipes don't freeze), and move the fridge/freezer to the back porch.  Hmm, I guess that's something that could vary location to location...  where I'm at the temps are already below freezing this time of year.

5) Make sure my family sets a watch, and then head out to check in with neighbors and friends and collect and relay any information I can and note who still has working vehicles or generators.  After the last stop, head back to my place and move the fridge to the arctic entryway.  Now open up the safe, and take the laptops out and see if any will power on.  There's a decent chance the gun safe may have protected some or all the electronics inside as would a Faraday cage.  If they work, celebrate with a beer.  If they don't, commiserate with a beer.

6) Make sure everything's locked up good and tight, then take my portable indoor propane heater and my rifle and head back to the family.  Nail up blankets around the living room to keep the heat in.  With the fireplace and the propane heater (if needed), we will be good for the night.  Have at least one person keep watch overnight and listen periodically to the crank radio for any news.  Tomorrow we will see if we can get any of the cars working (EMP does not always disable all late-model cars as completely as we're given to think) and figure out where to go from here.

Boy, I think this was my longest post ever.  I think I went a little apesh*t here Tongue out

- Nickbert

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Start canning the meat in the second freezer.

Hook 25kw generator to the "Ole Deere"(only need an hour of electricity/day)

Hay the beeves

Mix whiskey sour and get out acoustic guitars,bass,drums gonna grill and jam. The noise will bring a neighbor

who will give us the news, being self sufficient in rural south-central VA is a way of life. We'll wonder a bit about

when the hoards will arrive to pillage.

robie husband,father,farmer,optometrist

 

Pre-'86 mercedes diesels with manual trans are bullet proof,seviceable and efficient(for their era).

also Honda trail "CT" series pre '81 are EMP resistant,simple and efficient.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Computer hackers cause major blackouts

By Richard Reynolds

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/11/08/2736567.htm?section=justin

An official with Brazil's electricity regulator has confirmed that large scale
blackouts in 2005 and 2007 were caused by people hacking into the computers that
control the electricity grid.

The official with ANEEL, which regulates electricity producers and transmission
in Brazil, said that while the evidence was not absolute, it was widely believed
that hackers broke into control computers and shut down power to millions.

The 2005 attack in Espirito Santo state shut off power to about four million
people.

Another attack in 2007 shut off power to about one million residents in Rio de
Janeiro.

The perpetrators were never identified.

Australian authorities are also concerned about such attacks.

The office of Attorney General Robert McClelland has a special advisory group to
monitor progress in protecting infrastructure such as power grids.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

A couple people have mentioned canning the meat in their freezer. Can anyone briefly describe the process or provide a link that does? I would like to add it to the PDF.

Nickbert,

You really sound like you know what your doing in this situation.....everybody head over Nickbert's pad! Surprised

Rheba, Full Moon, and Robie,

I have to say that I very envious of your situations. I'm stuck in semi-suburbia with just 3/4 of an acre to feed my family with. I have a year's supply of food in the bulk pantry, but no real means to be self-sustaining in the long run. Uh Ohh.

(Note: I'm going to delay Day 2 of this simulation until more people have contributed to this thread. Also, in my "real" life, I have a late-season hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico to deal with right now. Tide is up 4 feet already and there is some local costal flooding occurring. Surprise, surprise....I better get busy)

Thanks everybody for your continued contributions to this thread....I'm learning a great deal.

Jeff

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Yah.  Big honkin' Martensonville BBQ at my place!  I have plenty of backup propane cylinders, so we can cook up the contents of many a freezer.  I might have to break out a bottle of Lagavulin (I have a case for...post-crash barter...yeaaaahh...that's it, for barter) to toast TEOTWAWKI.

And while I wait for everybody to arrive, I'll clean the shottie while I watch the dog hunt mice around the woodpile.  I've got some food stashed for him, but surplus protein would help stretch it.

Viva -- Sager

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

I think that we should operate under a "No EMP" assumption.

Not trying to be a stick in the mud Jeff, but my graduate degree is in electromagnetics.

Nothing short of a nuclear detonation, or a large, fixed facility would produce an electromagnetic pulse of the magnitude that this

scenario presupposes.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
Morpheus wrote:

I think that we should operate under a "No EMP" assumption.

Ditto. 

EMP is nuclear war.  Iran and probably most of the middle east would be a molten glass wasteland, and there would be a nuclear fallout cloud over the entire earth forget about organic farming in that scenario.

This is going to be a crisis from an economic meltdown from a currency crisis.  War Game for that.

Props to NickBert.  That liquor store idea is great.  Since I don't drink very often I didn't think about that, but liquor is probably better barter than gold and silver. thanks

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
Morpheus wrote:

I think that we should operate under a "No EMP" assumption.

Not trying to be a stick in the mud Jeff, but my graduate degree is in electromagnetics.

Nothing short of a nuclear detonation, or a large, fixed facility would produce an electromagnetic pulse of the magnitude that this

scenario presupposes.

Pete,

I can very much appreciate your expertise....I think we will need your knowledge in our little make believe town of Martensonville during this simulation.

EMP Attack Could Wipe Out The US

A single nuclear bomb exploded over the Midwest would generate an electromagnetic pulse that would destroy the chips that are at the heart of every electronic device. While military and intelligence networks may be shielded against EMP, most of the rest of the country’s technological infrastructure is not.

 

An EMP attack would wipe out personal computers and the internet. Cars would not start, gasoline pumps would not work, and airplanes could not take off.

 

Heat and air conditioning would shut down, supermarkets would have to close, telephones would go dead, water would go out, and radio and television sets would not turn on.

 

Banks and ATMs would shut down, credit cards would become useless, and emergency services and hospital operating rooms would close.

 

In the ensuing chaos, most Americans would die from starvation.

I figure if we can think our way through this nightmare scenario, then a financial collapse will be a breeze to deal with.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
docmims wrote:

EMP is nuclear war.  Iran and probably most of the middle east would be a molten glass wasteland, and there would be a nuclear fallout cloud over the entire earth forget about organic farming in that scenario.

I can appreciate your pov here, but it has to be an EMP strike for reasons that will become apparent later in this simulation. 

Thanks for your input and please stick around.

Jeff

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
JAG wrote:
docmims wrote:

EMP is nuclear war.  Iran and probably most of the middle east would be a molten glass wasteland, and there would be a nuclear fallout cloud over the entire earth forget about organic farming in that scenario.

I can appreciate your pov here, but it has to be an EMP strike for reasons that will become apparent later in this simulation. 

Thanks for your input and please stick around.

Jeff

Well if you're talking about limited nuclear war, then I'm game. And while it is best to prepare for the worst case beyond imaginable (nuclear war), I just wanted to point out the unlikelihood of this sans a nuke strike.

 

In any event, it's your simulation so I won't interfere.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
JAG wrote:
docmims wrote:

EMP is nuclear war.  Iran and probably most of the middle east would be a molten glass wasteland, and there would be a nuclear fallout cloud over the entire earth forget about organic farming in that scenario.

I can appreciate your pov here, but it has to be an EMP strike for reasons that will become apparent later in this simulation. 

Thanks for your input and please stick around.

Jeff

Well if you're talking about limited nuclear war, then I'm game. And while it is best to prepare for the worst case beyond imaginable (nuclear war), I just wanted to point out the unlikelihood of this sans a nuke strike.

 

In any event, it's your simulation so I won't interfere.

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

I would like to add.....it might be good to diversify your bartering items. Liquor seems like an obvious choice, but you never know. Depending on your community's situation it may not really get you anything you need.

 

I make sure I have an extra "bartering" pile of these items..... just in case one or more than one is no longer a valued item in the community.

Ammo ( I try to stick to what most other ammo people would need)

Tabacco/cigarettes

Liquor

Condoms (or any other type of birth control)

Pain meds (Aspirin/Advil would be a huge advantage)

Anything to do with infants/children (currently still keep extra baby formula)

I know this list could be expanded, but I only have a certain amount of space I dedicate to bartering.

 

 

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
JAG wrote:

Nickbert,

You really sound like you know what your doing in this situation.....everybody head over Nickbert's pad! Surprised

Hehe thanks for the encouragement.  Actually I'm ill prepared for most collapse scenarios... while we are well prepared for short-term emergencies and have a plan on what to do for several emergencies, but due to our circumstances we don't have the environment for many long-term sustainable preps.  We rent so we cannot garden or raise animals (and my dad/stepmom's place has only a modest garden), we cannot install a woodstove (hence staying the night at my folks place where there's at least a fireplace), and cannot install any off-grid power systems.  With effort we can always get more wood for the fireplace and we've got enough food stored to last out the winter I suppose, but long-term we will have to improvise like everyone else.  One thing I do feel good about is that we do have a large number of hand tools and a few skills and books relevant to a survival situation.  My family would be much better suited in this case to move to a house that is long-term sustainable, having at least a healthy inventory of provisions and equipment to contribute to the household.

- Nickbert

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
lundsta wrote:

I would like to add.....it might be good to diversify your bartering items. Liquor seems like an obvious choice, but you never know. Depending on your community's situation it may not really get you anything you need.

I make sure I have an extra "bartering" pile of these items..... just in case one or more than one is no longer a valued item in the community.

Ammo ( I try to stick to what most other ammo people would need)

Tabacco/cigarettes

Liquor

Condoms (or any other type of birth control)

Pain meds (Aspirin/Advil would be a huge advantage)

Anything to do with infants/children (currently still keep extra baby formula)

I know this list could be expanded, but I only have a certain amount of space I dedicate to bartering.

Everything you listed above except tobacco/cigarrettes is on my collapse list, both for personal use and potential barter (I really encourage everyone to make such a list because it does take a lot of time to come up with all the various items).  One of the primary reasons I focused on non-food consumables like these are because I'd expect most people to go for food first, and we already have that angle covered.  To us buying more food might add a little bit to our already substantial existing supplies, but that little bit of extra food could mean all the difference to previously unprepared people.  So leave the food in the grocery stores for them and stay out of their way.  And it would just save time.... getting the other things while most people are buying food or running to the banks would be a better use of our possibly limited time.

- Nickbert

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

My thoughts are that a crisis comes during a debt default. That is, when the gov't can no longer borrow, can no longer pay it's bills, and our foreign creditors cut off the commodities (read: oil, textiles, food, Xboxes, Toyotas) spigot.

Like the sneaky vipers that they are, they will likely announce a default either during lunchtime on Thurs or Friday, when market trading is least active and close to the weekend.

The markets will plunge. And, as every good American knows, [SARCARSM] the stock market is the chief indicator of economic health [/SARCASM]. The public, realizing that the markets are imploding, will panic....

but not yet. Me thinks it'll take until Sat or Sun because the penetration velocity of information into a concrete thick skull is 1/4" of skull/(day of denial).

So, upon default we have 48 hours. That's my working projection. 48 hours until martial law is declared.

And we're now in the first 24 hours.

First things first. Assuming no emp (sorry, can't accept that physical unreality), I go into bugout mode. Me and the fiancee pack the pickup, the tow trailer, fill the tanks, fill the gas drums, and head out to her uncle's place DEEP in the country. Everything pre-assembled and in storage, ready to go.

You have 48 hours. After that I think it'll be lockout time. As soon as you hear that news, grab as much gasoline as you can get. If your rural, now is the time to activate your defense plan and call in the family and friends. If your urban and staying put? Gee, don't know. I have a plan C, but it's far from my favorite option. :(

If you're urban and bugging out. Do it as if a Cat-5 hurricane were going to slam into your house in the morning. Get your butt in gear while the sheep are still mulling over what the hell happened and get out of dogde.

It's day one, you have a little more than 24 hours.

Other than gas, I have ZERO intentions of shopping that day. You should have done that already. No, the golden hours are burning quickly. Activate your plan and stick with it. Be decisive, and stick to what you have already pre-planned. That includes the contingenciy plans if things go awry. You do have plans B, and C, right?

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Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

 Jag ,

 One basic thing we have found most useful is  a propane stove, besides I hate cooking on electricity and believe me I cook a lot . You can store a lot of propane and the last I knew Arizona and NewMexico has a huge pool of it to last a looooong time.    If you have electric ignite you will still need matches .  So when we are without power  we can  cook and the baking heats up the place .  Now for canning meat you will need a Pressure cooker not just a water bath canner  ,  The Blue Ball book is so helpful , of course you will need jars, flats, and rings. Pick these up at auctions for 25 cents a jar or at walmart  $8 a case of 12. I order the flats by the case 700  wide mouth and 700 small . The rings you use over and over .      Some  meat like chicken  and rabbit you can put up cooked or raw , fish you will want to do raw , pork,beef , elk , deer ,and such if you can it  raw the time is 120 minutes at 15 pounds pressure  if it is already cooked  into a stew reduce the time in half .  If you are putting the meat and vegs. in raw to make stew the time is 75 minutes.   If at any time your canned food looks iffy throw it to the dogs. Spoilage will make you very sick.

A few jars of food are always handy to have if you have people drop in for a meal.  I will try to keep the meat frozen as long as there is hope to have electricity in the near future, because that is how we like it  but if your simulation goes on too long it will need to be canned for sure .

 Now for chicken Rabbit and small animals you can just butcher what you will need for the day .  Turkey and such you may want to pool together and feed more people like Sager's BBQ .

   I did see the people from down at the commune stock up on booze ,I think learning to make the wine, beer, and alcohol might be even better Idea after you have some stored . It really  must not be so very hard because a lot of people used to do it .   I do remember a batch my grandpa made exploding in the basement and the house smelled like home-brew for days .

  I also think that some towns will loosen up their rules on having poultry and rabbits in city limits, so more people will be self reliant .  My big concern is that things will go down so slow that it will suck the life out of  a lot of people and they will give up hope or become totally dependant on Government hand outs instead.

 You know my boys got walkie talkies for Christmas a few years ago  they have a pretty good range on them .  With a few sets we would be able to communicate even 4 miles down the road to the folks place without having to ride the horses  to check on them .    They do not use much battery but a solar charger is on my list of things for this year . Cell phones only work 3 days on a charge .

  One thing that come to me is that  since many here do not have a core church group to belong  then more people here could become involved in their town council and you would have more opportunity to make the area ready.

   It really seems to me that this site is really about saving your assets not really about survival. So maybe we have been too much concerned about this kind of preparedness?    I for one am training the kids for it .  Yes there is more and more trend to ''go green '' but the morality of people is not improving so this too will soon be corrupt I am afraid.

 

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strabes
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Posts: 1032
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

JAG, your simulation may just be what causes me to move from the US to the tropics before such a scenario happens...seriously.  why would we not avoid it if we could?  I don't see any post here that I'd like to live through compared to "surf in the morning, walk back home, learn of horror in the US, eat fresh mango from my orchard while watching a monkey hang in my banana trees and pondering the illusion of freedom under banks/corporations."

 

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
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Posts: 1200
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
strabes wrote:

JAG, your simulation may just be what causes me to move from the US to the tropics before such a scenario happens...seriously.  why would we not avoid it if we could?  I don't see any post here that I'd like to live through compared to "surf in the morning, walk back home, learn of horror in the US, eat fresh mango from my orchard while watching a monkey hang in my banana trees and pondering the illusion of freedom under banks/corporations."

 

I have pondered this too Strabes. But where?

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JAG
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Posts: 2492
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Strabes...I couldn't agree more. This scenario scares the begeezus out of me. But my family is here, and I'm sure I couldn't live with myself in Baja knowing that they were suffering unspeakably horrors here. 

Why don't we pack up Martensonville and move it down to Costa Rica to join Farmer Brownville? LOL

Full Moon,

Thanks for the info....I have a couple of pressure cookers and two large propane burners, but no jars, tops and seals. I guess I better do some shopping. I wish my grandmother was still around to teach me how to can. I guess I better pick up a few books on canning and get to work learning how to do it.

Pete,

Is there an inexpensive way to protect small items from EMP? Everything I read involves constructing a Faraday cage. Is there anything simpler? (Anyone ?)

Thanks

strabes's picture
strabes
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
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Posts: 1032
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

I've pondered Costa Rica, Baja (I hear the El Pescadero area has sustainable off-grid activity), and the highlands of Equador where it's 60 degrees year round.  I haven't pulled the trigger because I always settle back into a "well my family is here and I'd like to stay connected" type of mindset even though my begging them to become aware of this stuff falls on deaf ears. Things like this simulation help keep me alert rather than being totally lazy with such sentimentality.  

No place is safe from banks and economic collapse, but almost everywhere is less hostage to the mega institutions and importing everything.  plus it seems to me it would be easy to escape the type of social collapse in the US resulting from this simulation.  

My concern is that I'd be an outsider, not part of community, in foreign land so I'd still be in trouble.  So I'd be open to discussions about a group, even a few people with CM mindset, moving to the same area.  

 

johnbryson's picture
johnbryson
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 13 2008
Posts: 54
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Does anyone know whether an EMP can be created by Haarp?

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
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Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1

Jeff. Copper mesh or solid copper that is GROUNDED (or any other strong conductor of electricity) is really the only way to do it effectively.

However, (throwing a fly in the ointment) if the EMP is purely magnetic, then you're screwed. The good news is that this is extremely unlikely.

Good rule of thumb. If it conducts electricity then it will shield against EMP. If it is an insulator (what is called a dielectric), the EM radiation will pass right through it. Kinda odd, huh? That which protects you against current is worthless against fields. That which conducts current will protect you from fields. (Google Maxwell's equations).

Best bet is to put generators and other essential electronics in the basement, or bury them. This is not a guarantee by any means as there are several paths into the basement, including through the first floor. But all material will reflect EMP to some degree, and the more mass between your "stuff" the lower the electric field that it is exposed to.

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horstfam
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 6 2008
Posts: 71
Re: Crisis Simulation - What size community

Strabes,

As a follow-up to your comment, what size community is optimal? Community is the best way to go for longer-term survivability, I think. What if you become sick and can't tend the garden for a few weeks, community can jump in and save the day (and your life!). Community is a must, but how many folk is optimal? Has anyone read up on this? Any research as to group dynamics, and when they go bad? I imagine that at some point, a group would get large enough that it would be better to have two groups, all things being equal- what's that number? Perhaps 50 men, women, and children; or maybe 100?

Ideally, it would be terrific to have a "cluster" of let's say six of these 50-person communities within easy biking distance- a couple of miles. If each family has say five acres, that would be approximately 12 "farms" at 60 acres per "community". That would be a 360-acres area for this cluster.

I know this is all hypothetical, but it is an important exercise to try and envision a better future. Any ideas or information? Thanks, in advance.

 

Morpheus's picture
Morpheus
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 27 2008
Posts: 1200
Re: Crisis Simulation - Day 1
johnbryson wrote:

Does anyone know whether an EMP can be created by Haarp?

I know a little about HAARP and at first thought it was "tin hatter" baloney. That is, until I saw a Canadian Broadcasting Company (CBC) expose on it. Well done and freaky as hell. The CBC seems to think that HAARP is something that man should not be messing with.

Yes, HAARP modifies atmospheric dynamics via mass ionization. Now, is it mature and effective? Who the heck knows. But we shouldn't be messing with that stuff IMHO. It's playing God.

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