This Could Be The Start

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This Could Be The Start
This could be the start.

DETROIT (AP) - Nine suspects tied to a Christian militia that was preparing for the Antichrist were charged with conspiring to kill police officers, then attack a funeral using homemade bombs in the hopes of killing more law enforcement personnel, federal prosecutors said Monday.

The Michigan-based group, called Hutaree, planned to use the attack on police as a catalyst for a larger uprising against the government, according to newly unsealed court papers. U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said agents moved on the group because its members were planning a violent mission sometime in April.

Read entire article here
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20100329/D9EOF6SO0.html
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Re: This Could Be The Start

Apparently, there are a number of groups that are venting anger at police. Out here in So Cal someone has been targeting Hemet Police Dept.  with booby traps and other attempts to  kill police. Here is a recent news report of an attack against that dept.

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/inland_empire&id=73...

4 Hemet code enforcement trucks set on fire

The Hemet Police Department said the incident was likely connected to the threats and recent booby-trap attacks against the department.

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

 

Ken,

News reports as well as what I hear through the grapevine is that this is gang related. Apparently the gangs are retaliating against recent police crackdowns.

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Re: This Could Be The Start

"This could be the start."

V, could you be more specific?  Just like I tell my wife, "please use more words, I'm a guy." 

Do you mean that this is the start of civil unrest or the start of the police cracking down on those with guns or the start of martial law or something else that I'm not understanding? It looks to me like the police were going after some guys with perverted religious beliefs who were plotting violence against them. 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

I agree V!  Right when I saw the MSM reports I thought "this is how they're going to get people that don't agree with them out of the way!"  Now the MSM will bastardize these people with them having absolutely NO WAY to refute the allegations.  I don't know if this group actually was planning what the MSM is saying but I would personally bet against it.

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

I agree that police could abuse their power and make up charges for a group they don't like to "get rid of them."  However, is there any evidence that's what's going on here or are you just assuming the police are abusing their power?  If it's a real threat, I would be glad the police have stopped them.  If it's abuse of the state's power, I would like to see some evidence before they're "accused" in print.

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Our Turn?

     Nations go crazy. It's terrifying when it happens, especially to a major nation with the ability to project its craziness outward. We look back on the psychotic break of Germany in 1933 and still wonder how the then-best-educated population in Europe could fall under the sway of a sociopathic political program. We behold the carnage and devastation left in the wake of that episode, and decades later you still can do little more than shake your head in bewilderment.
     China had a psychotic break in the 1960s in its "cultural revolution," provoked by the mad neo-emperor Mao. He sent cadres of Chinese baby boomer youths rampaging across the land, turned every institution upside down, and let millions starve. Mao's China lacked the ability then to export this mischief, but enough of his own people suffered.
     Cambodia was the next humdinger of a national nervous breakdown when the Paris-educated classic marxist Pol Pot decided to make the world's biggest omelette by cracking a million eggs. He took everybody wearing eyeglasses, everybody who appeared to have a thought in his or her head, and sent them out to the bush to be worked to death, or shot in ditches, or disposed of otherwise. The mounds of skulls remain to tell the tale.
     Lately we've had the Hutu-Tutsi genocides in Rwanda, the craziness in former Yugoslavia, the cruelty of Darfur, the international suicide-bomber craze (including today's blasts in Moscow). Surely, I've left a few out... but these are minor episodes compared to what be coming next.
     Am I the only one who senses it might be America's turn to go nuts? I don't mean a family squabble, like the Boomer-Hippie-Vietnam uproar that was essentially an adolescent rebellion against bad parenting in the national household. I mean a genuine descent into madness, with the very high probability of persecution, violence, murder, and mayhem -- all more or less sponsored by various authorities and institutions.
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Re: This Could Be The Start

These types of events are slowly accelerating in frequency:

Some examples:

1. Joe Stack crashes his plane into IRS building

2. Some guy started shooting at officers at the Pentagon ( a few weeks ago)

3. This Christian militia plot

4. The shooting at the military base at Ft hood

5. The threats and gunfire at democrat congressmen offices

6. The numerous murder-suicides taking place

The progression of these violent events will continue to grow ever so slowly. As the economy continues to get worse there will be more people becoming violent. When the states go officially broke you will see the pensioners riot. The inner cities are bustling with rage as unemployment tops 30% amongst minorites and police brutality is unchecked.

However, the vast majority of americans are sitting quietly at home, trusting in the system. They believe that things will get better as a whole, or even the macro picture doesnt get better, that their PERSONAL situation will improve. I see the occasional polls stating how congress has a 17% approval rating, but for the most part people are inundated with distractions, whether it be TV shows, sports, their relationships, or their jobs/finances. My facebook friends are constantly having their mafia wars or talking about sports games. Mind you that my FB community is mostly college and law grads, and this is the crap they talk about. The perception is strong amongst the educated class that things will improve, that unemployment is ONLY at 9.7%, and that it is only a matter of time until things go back to normal, or at least better than things are now.

The poor, on the other hand, could be a source of instability. However, the government has a fierce hold on them. Jails and prisons are jam packed. Most gangsters are in prison hence the drop in violent crime. Perhaps some non-violent offenders are getting released but for the most part the police state is stronger then hell. The educated class is too scared to commit acts of civil disobedience because they know that an arrest will be fatal to any job prospects. Coupled with the heavy student loan burdens, the college grad is keeping his mouth shut and is quietly searching for work on monster and craigslist.

As you all know by now, i talk to alot of people. I spoke with a law grad the other day. Jobless, loans in deferment, bitter, and depressed. We went out for a drink (happy hour) but NO mention of anything important. Just all this talk about how "when I pass the bar exam im going to get in the game. Things are going to be good. Im not too worried." I applaud his optimism (he failed his first bar exam attempt) but NO mention of the possibility that things could very well be different. No mention of the fraud taking place on wall street, no mention of gov deficits. No mention how gasoline is at 3.25 a gallon despite the fact we are in a nasty recession. He is your typical grad student. Ive spoken to many of them and they all talk the same way.

CONCLUSION

The events listed above are isolated incidents and will remain so. Even though they will increase is frequency and intensity, for the most part no new "revolution" or anarchy will occur. The ONLY way, i believe, that the "start" of anarchy or instability can occur is if CONFIDENCE is lost in the system. The matrix is a powerful beast. Have you noticed that MOST tv shows have a nice +2000 sq ft home, everyone on TV is either rich or upper middle class. Nice studios, nice award ceremonies, nice tropical islands where reality shows are shot give the impression that everything is fine. Hidden is the reality of growing homelessness and squatting. Hidden is the fact that many people arent paying their mortgages. Hidden is the fact that almost 40 million americans are using food stamps. Hidden is the footage of intense battles taking place in afghanistan. This country hides its weaknesses very well. I see through the lies. Everytime i drive by a house i wonder how much is owed on it. When i see a person driving i wonder how much credit card, student loan, or other debt they hold. But they tell themselves that things will get better. Hope springs eternal.

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Ok.. if things are going to get increasingly violent and "this could be the start" what of the true power structure and how things really are?.. (As Strabes has presented recently..great work by the way). If an honest education of the money system and who owns it is understood by these militia groups maybe the target of the Gubment and police will be reconsidered..

It seems as though "Joe six pack" (as he is affectionally called round here) is only looking at the little triangle (government and services/ police/ military etc) As Strabes has pointed out they are just the administrators for the true power that sits above them..  and of course you cant blame the average person because the media is complcit in this deception.. People believe their TV.. I feel sorry for the cops that they automatically become an obvious target.. They are just leverage for the bigger game... Its like phoning your credit card company and yelling and swearing at them because its a rip off etc.. Truth is you've phoned a call center and the person copping the abuse is a minimum wage earner with no power in terms of conditions and policy.. In fact the computer and the programmed script forces everyone to comply even if the operator wanted to help you.. I see all services by Government legislated in this way.. And the ultimate outcome is to serve the power structure obove them..

I was watching Obama on TV yesterday and i asked myself  "who is this guy ?" Really? He was talking to Karzi(Afgan bloke) And Obamas body language was not matching his words.. I realized he's just playing president.. (He even got to wear Bush's ("We got im") Airforce jacket) HaHa its dress up time... He knows nothing (much) Just playing power NOT true power.

Anyway i just hope the truth actually gets to these groups out there.. Sure its a challenge.. It means completely letting go of the old narrative.. It means taking the time to learn, read, and challenge the status quo.. I know ive had a few "light bulb moments" lately so its possible for anyone.. The people here like VF DTM Strabes Davos Erik Jag V etc have taught me a lot.. And i truly am "joe 6 pack"..

Regards

West

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

BMT,

I agree with everything you said.

It does surprise me how complacent the youth of the country seem to be about all this though.  My sense is that the most outraged individuals tend to be the boomers who, unfortunately, are now beginning to enter the stage of life where it's no longer so easy to "grab the bull by the horns" physically.  

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Re: This Could Be The Start

ao 

As a boomer, at my age the horns are somewhat limp. The word vicarious has taken on all too real meaning.

V

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Re: This Could Be The Start
V wrote:

ao 

As a boomer, at my age the horns are somewhat limp. The word vicarious has taken on all too real meaning.

V

I hear ya.  I work out intensely and approaching 57, I'm in better shape than almost anyone I know but the "machinery" is not what it used to be. 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article25100.htm

Is America ‘Yearning For Fascism?’

By Chris Hedges

March 29, 2010 "" -- The language of violence always presages violence. I watched it in war after war from Latin America to the Balkans. The impoverishment of a working class and the snuffing out of hope and opportunity always produce angry mobs ready to kill and be killed. A bankrupt, liberal elite, which proves ineffectual against the rich and the criminal, always gets swept aside, in times of economic collapse, before thugs and demagogues emerge to play to the passions of the crowd. I have seen this drama. I know each act. I know how it ends. I have heard it in other tongues in other lands. I recognize the same stock characters, the buffoons, charlatans and fools, the same confused crowds and the same impotent and despised liberal class that deserves the hatred it engenders.

"We are ruled not by two parties but one party," Cynthia McKinney, who ran for president on the Green Party ticket, told me. "It is the party of money and war. Our country has been hijacked. And we have to take the country away from those who have hijacked it. The only question now is whose revolution gets funded."

The Democrats and their liberal apologists are so oblivious to the profound personal and economic despair sweeping through this country that they think offering unemployed people the right to keep their unemployed children on their nonexistent health care policies is a step forward. They think that passing a jobs bill that will give tax credits to corporations is a rational response to an unemployment rate that is, in real terms, close to 20 percent. They think that making ordinary Americans, one in eight of whom depends on food stamps to eat, fork over trillions in taxpayer dollars to pay for the crimes of Wall Street and war is acceptable. They think that the refusal to save the estimated 2.4 million people who will be forced out of their homes by foreclosure this year is justified by the bloodless language of fiscal austerity. The message is clear. Laws do not apply to the power elite. Our government does not work. And the longer we stand by and do nothing, the longer we refuse to embrace and recognize the legitimate rage of the working class, the faster we will see our anemic democracy die.

The unraveling of America mirrors the unraveling of Yugoslavia. The Balkan war was not caused by ancient ethnic hatreds. It was caused by the economic collapse of Yugoslavia. The petty criminals and goons who took power harnessed the anger and despair of the unemployed and the desperate. They singled out convenient scapegoats from ethnic Croats to Muslims to Albanians to Gypsies. They set in motion movements that unleashed a feeding frenzy leading to war and self-immolation. There is little difference between the ludicrous would-be poet Radovan Karadzic, who was a figure of ridicule in Sarajevo before the war, and the moronic Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin. There is little difference between the Oath Keepers and the Serbian militias. We can laugh at these people, but they are not the fools. We are.

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Re: This Could Be The Start

V

It's interesting to me that all ages seem to represent here on this site. 

Boomers, babies and in-between, plus some super wisdom from oldtimers too! 

As a Church going Michigan resident, todays story about the militia group involved left me more confused than ever...how could these people think murder and mayhem could be an answer?  Most militia that I've met or read about are honest, hard-working family people that only seemed nutty to me in their love for ammo and camo.

My husband (a businessman) loves his guns but rarely shoots them.  Has stockpiled ammo, but prays he'll never need it. It makes me tremble to imagine my government targeting people just LIKE US.

What if their only sin was mistrusting their government and owning alot of guns?  I can't imagine Americans who are angry with their Government, that are angry enough to kill and sacrifice their families for it.   I just don't get it.

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Re: This Could Be The Start

On its Web site, Hutaree quotes several Bible passages and states: "We believe that one day, as prophecy says, there will be an Anti-Christ. ... Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment." There's also a picture on the site of 17 camouflaged men, all holding large guns.

I just read the entire news story..

 I come from a secular society so i know nothing about religious ideology.. But maybe there are "Bible passages" that ask believers to kill what is called an "Antichrist" ... Is that possible?

To me it just seems so insane.. I wonder what stories they are telling themselves and justifications to get to the point where Bible passeges are more of a motivation for change than the actual truth and state of the nation.

Dont get me wrong iam all for change of the money system.. ie along the lines of Ellen Browns solutions in her book web of debt. But to believe "Jesus wanted us to be ready to defend ourselves using the sword and stay alive using equipment". Is this even possible?? Do christians take these words literally or should they been taken metaphorically?? Because i want to know what is jesus? what is using the sword? And what is stay alive using equipment?

The other possibility is that they are wrongly accused and maybe the story has been sensationalised.. As Roman said maybe the only sin was mistrusting the government and owning a lot of guns.

Would love someone to explain this in a rational way.. Like if you had to explain it to a person from another planet..

Regards

West

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Romans,

That's just it!  These people could be exactly like you but have formed a group that gets together to shoot, have lunch, and discuss how they're going to react when tshtf.  BUT, we'll never get the real story as the media has been hijacked by tptb and will say to "joe six pack" through the boob tube that they're "hardened militia laying an ambush on the local police."  

As V stated in the initial post, "This could be it"!  This is how all fascist gov'ts get full control.  Use the media to spew their version of events and start taking out your opposition one by one.  

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start
Romans12.2 wrote:

What if their only sin was mistrusting their government and owning alot of guns?  I can't imagine Americans who are angry with their Government, that are angry enough to kill and sacrifice their families for it.   I just don't get it.

Romans,

Regarding the first question in this paragraph, read about Ruby Ridge and Waco (Branch Davidians).  It will amaze you.

Many of us who are paying attention have decided what our "line in the sand" will be.  I hope you have.  Unfortunately, some have drawn a line that is hard for many of us to imagine.  Are they crazy, I don't know.  My line does not agree with theirs, so it is hard for me to understand their actions.

It will be interesting to see the specifics of this latest story come to light.  It will take a while for the true picture to appear, it always does when we are so often intentionally mislead.

This is a repost of a video in another thread.  Draw your line now.

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start
LogansRun wrote:

Romans,

That's just it!  These people could be exactly like you but have formed a group that gets together to shoot, have lunch, and discuss how they're going to react when tshtf.  BUT, we'll never get the real story as the media has been hijacked by tptb and will say to "joe six pack" through the boob tube that they're "hardened militia laying an ambush on the local police."  

As V stated in the initial post, "This could be it"!  This is how all fascist gov'ts get full control.  Use the media to spew their version of events and start taking out your opposition one by one.  

 

 

My family recently experienced a home invasion.  It was the most terrifying event of my life and I could say the same for my 14 yr. old daughter who made the 911 call from my closet.  I'm going into self defense and fire arm training at a place near my home called Front Sight.  I'm just sick to my stomache about the latest news in regard to the militias as these kinds of stories will make folks like myself look crazy for owning a gun and having self defense training.  Seeing a stranger come into my home with eyes fixed solely on me and with two adult dogs nipping at his legs going completely unnoticed (he was high on drugs and alcohol) I can tell you that if everyone experienced what I and my daughter experienced you wouldn't have a problem with Americans having the right to bare arms.  There is certainly more to the sotry on these militias but I fear that balanced reason in most peoples minds will go completely void.

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Re: This Could Be The Start

If you are offended by religious talk, skip over this one.

West Ozz 9999

Taking Scripture out of context is routinely preached in my church.  Ist Peter Chapter 3 states 'wives, submit onto your husbands'.  Shall I stop there or share the rest?  Husbands, submit onto your wives as .......  The point I'm trying to make is that you can take one line out of Scripture and twist it to the point to make nearly anything stand. 

Don't know anything about the Michigan folks.  The elite may be trying to exhibit a powerful show of force, or maybe these folks were 'out there'.

Bottom line:  When Peter removed a Roman guards ear with a sword, Jesus healed it.  Christians are not about violence. The battle against the anti-Christ is not ours.

Period. 

Nate

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Nate -

Bravo.

Period.

Dogs

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Re: This Could Be The Start

what Dogs said.

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Re: This Could Be The Start

I've read a number of posts about people building community networks and preparing.  These groups would probably be viewed as crazy militias by the corporate monopoly media. 

On a lighter note, CNN got a "live wire" when they interviewed Alex Jones.  I have my doubts about him but I think it's funny that CNN got more than they bargained for.  He claims he was set up for a hit piece that was intended to portray him as pushing the hateful patriots to violence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYE5hcS_x5M&feature=player_embedded 

Larry

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Larry,

I was not sure what to think of Alex Jones but those videos are hilarious!  I might have to start listening to him more.  Thx

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Thanks Larry! Jones was fantastic and can see why CNN have not aired any part of the interview - excellent!!!

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Nate

Quote:

Christians are not about violence.

That is precisely as credible as those who say the same thing about Islam.  But, this should probably be consigned to the controversial topics forum.

Doug

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Alex is on fire!

Who knew Michael Jackson felt the same way?  Take a look.

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

We just had an incident over the weekend of a fellow, a respected and dedicated teacher, being shot to death when he entered the back door of a house.  The details haven't been made public yet, but he was apparently at a party in a neighboring house.  I don't know if he was confused or possibly drunk, but it seems clear that he wasn't a bad guy and didn't deserve to die for his transgression.

Doug

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Doug,

That's a tragic story and my heartfelt sympathy goes out to his family and students.  How sad.  This is very similar to our home invasion.  It was a 19 yr. old who had been partying on the Vegas strip and got confused as to which house he was staying at.  He was traveling through Vegas and on his way to CA for spring break.  In this sort of event you just have no idea of the impact it has on a family until you experience it for yourself.  My daughter will never forget seeing this man at the bottom of the stairs coming toward me and me running out the front door to get help while leaving my daughter behind and alone in the house.  While this teachers death is tragic I have to say that home invasion often has deadly consequences and folks have a right to be armed and defend themselves if they feel that their life is being threatened.  Like my daughter said, this was our wake up call.

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Re: This Could Be The Start
rocketgirl1 wrote:

Doug,

That's a tragic story and my heartfelt sympathy goes out to his family and students.  How sad.  This is very similar to our home invasion.  It was a 19 yr. old who had been partying on the Vegas strip and got confused as to which house he was staying at.  He was traveling through Vegas and on his way to CA for spring break.  In this sort of event you just have no idea of the impact it has on a family until you experience it for yourself.  My daughter will never forget seeing this man at the bottom of the stairs coming toward me and me running out the front door to get help while leaving my daughter behind and alone in the house.  While this teachers death is tragic I have to say that home invasion often has deadly consequences and folks have a right to be armed and defend themselves if they feel that their life is being threatened.  Like my daughter said, this was our wake up call.

I don't disagree with you.  I have guns and am acquiring more.  I just wish people would use a little more common sense when using them.

Doug

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This Is Everyones Battle ...
Nate wrote:

Bottom line:  When Peter removed a Roman guards ear with a sword, Jesus healed it.  Christians are not about violence. The battle against the anti-Christ is not ours.

First They Came ...

"THEY CAME FIRST for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

THEN THEY CAME for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

THEN THEY CAME for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up because I was a Protestant.

THEN THEY CAME for me
and by that time no one was left to speak up."

 - Martin Niemöller (1892–1984)

Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came...

[snippet]

 Martin Niemöller was a German pastor and theologian born in Lippstadt, Germany, in 1892. Niemöller was an anti-Communist and supported Hitler's rise to power at first. But when Hitler insisted on the supremacy of the state over religion, Niemöller became disillusioned. He became the leader of a group of German clergymen opposed to Hitler. Unlike Niemöller, they gave in to the Nazis' threats. Hitler personally detested Niemöller and in 1937 had him arrested and eventually confined in the Sachsenhausen and Dachau concentration camps. Niemöller was released in 1945 by the Allies. He continued his career in Germany as a clergyman and as a leading voice of penance and reconciliation for the German people after World War II. His poem is well-known, frequently quoted, and is a popular model for describing the dangers of political apathy, as it often begins with specific and targeted fear and hatred which soon escalates out of control.

 

 

~ VF ~

 

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Re: This Could Be The Start

Thank you for the YouTube link VF.  Normally I wouldn't have 47 minutes to sit and watch something on a whim but your post hit me right at morning coffee time and I'm so glad I said yes !   I also like Catherine Austin Fitts in her advice on how to push against TPTB and move toward freedom.  CAF is also on YouTube.  I would have liked to see Naomi talk more about just how to push back against TPTB.  I'm not one to go out and march or picket, I just don't see how that is effective, I see it more as an exercise in blowing off steam, IMO. 

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