Consequences of the development of a social truth

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land2341's picture
land2341
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Consequences of the development of a social truth

There is no such thing as truth.  There are no such things as facts.  In every case what we believe is a social truth.  We agree that it is true and we all behave accordingly.  Green pieces of paper have value,  paint on the road means I drive on this side and you drive on that side.  We all agree and it works.

Except when it doesn't.

 

What do you all think is likely to be the first "truth" that falls?  What happens in a society where a small group of powerful individuals with a great deal invested in keeping the people ignorant, continuously expends enormous amounts of time and energy getting the people to believe something that simply is not true?  How long can you keep the game going? What happens when genuine facts force the issue??

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SagerXX
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land2341 wrote: What do you
land2341 wrote:

What do you all think is likely to be the first "truth" that falls?

Hmmm... excellent question.  A couple just off the top of my head:

1.  That the future will always be better.  (and by "better" I intend to mean what your run-of-the-mill American would mean by saying it, i.e. "better" = "filled with more nifty stuff")

2.  The government has things under control.

3.  The Allmighty Dollar is invincible.

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Good exercise, especially

Good exercise, especially since so many people are unaware they carry a set of "truths" in their heads, filtering everything they see.  Off the top of my head:

1. That government has the people's best interest in mind

2. That life is fair

3. That the US economy is invincible ("economic collapse cannot happen here")

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Phil Williams
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Great Discussion Question!

I don't know if these would be first, Sager and Pinecarr beat me to some of the really good ones:

1. The stock/ bond market is the path to wealth/ retirement.

2. My pension/ social security will always be there.

3. Gasoline always available.

4. My personal favorite, Technology will save us, fix our problems, and perpetually entertain us!

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Doug
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good discussion

Even if we run low on cheap fossil fuels, they'll come up with something to replace them.

We are in a recovery.

We'll never go back on the gold standard.

You gloom and doomers are a little whacky.  (well, ok, maybe that's an objective truth) Tongue out

Doug

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xraymike79
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Good exercise.Top False

Good exercise.

Top False beliefs:

1.) That America is a democracy with a free market.

2.) That your vote counts.

3.) That capitalism can exist without perpetual growth.

4.) That America has the highest standard of living Yes, some(the top 10%) still believe this.

5.) That you can be informed by solely watching/reading MSM. Those who believe this don't know what 'MSM' means.

6.) That the current industrial civilization we have can be powered by 'renewable' energy.'

7.) That there is really such a thing as 'renewable' or 'clean energy'.

8.) That  a 'Green' Corporation is something more than mere environmental pandering.

9.) That nuclear energy can be safe.

10.) That the 'War on Terror' has been something other than a colossal waste of time and self-defeating.

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land2341 wrote: There is no
land2341 wrote:

There is no such thing as truth.  

Oh yes there is unless you're an adherent to moral relativism which I'm not.  Real truth is clear and absolute.

land2341's picture
land2341
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No intention of engaging in

No intention of engaging in moral relativism,  but cultural relativism, yes.

Most of the things that I would have once listed as being truths are currently being argued somewhere by some one.....

 

I currently think the most important "truth" that will fail will be the "It can't happen here" belief.  Until that goes the clear fact that many other truths are no longer true does not matter.  People will behave as if they are true anyway.

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JohnDoe2b
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More truth

How about :

It's all Obama's fault and as soon as we boot him out and put some tea-baggers in charge everything will be hunky-dory. That one ought to be interesting.

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land2341
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The Economist

The Economist magazine June 18th to 124th Cover Headline:

The World Economy:  Sticky Patch or Meltdown?

A new emerging truth?  

"There is a real risk that the politician's pig-headedness could lead to disaster.  The odds if a catastrophe - harsh fiscal tightening in America, or a crash in the Euro zone - may not be high, but neither are they negligible.  Though economic logic suggests that the world economy is just going through  sticky patch, squabbling politicians could all too easily turn it into a meltdown."  p15

"Economic logic" appears to be seeking a scapegoat for the debacle to come.

 

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JohnDoe2b wrote: How about
JohnDoe2b wrote:

How about :

It's all Obama's fault and as soon as we boot him out and put some tea-baggers in charge everything will be hunky-dory. That one ought to be interesting.

You know I just could not pass this one up.  It is not all Obama's fault.  The roots of American decay started long before Obama showed up.  However, one of the largest and immediate problems we face as a nation is out of control government spending.  Approximately 40% of every dollar the Fed Gov is spending right now is borrowed.  As of late, a lot of this debt has been bought by the Fed Res.  China, Russia, Asia, and others who have been buying our excess debt are now scaling back on their purchases and some are actually selling.  This creates a very difficult situation as QE2 draws to a close June 30th.  It is unclear who is going to finance our out of control spending at the Federal level.  Interest rates are incredibly low right now.  The interest rate is a measure of risk.  American debt is getting riskier and riskier as it is starting to appear that we are simply unable to control our spending - that we are irresponsible and on an out of control spending spree that will lead us to some type of emergency.  The world will not want to be holding our paper if we can not control spending.  The end result is as the world perceives our debt as riskier and riskier this will drive up interest rates on our debt unless the Fed Res continues to buy it.  If interest rates spike up as we purchase new debt and as our existing debt rolls over, it will cost more and more to service our debt.  If interest rates go up say 5 points, servicing out debt will become a major issue.  This is just the way it is. 

Now we come to Obama, both houses of congress were taken over by the dems in 2006.  In 2008 Obama was elected and even more dems moved to congress.  When the dems controlled both houses of congress and the White House, they started on the largest spending spree in the history of the human race.  The numbers are simply staggering.  Look them up if this seems like a violation of some truth you hold.  Since 2006 when the dems took over congress, America as racked up as much debt as all the time America has existed since the constitution was signed.  It is truely a disaster.  If out of control spending is not stopped in short order there is going to be the largest financial disaster in the history of America.  I though George Bush was a big sender.  Bush was a piker compared to what Obama and the dems have been up to.

The Greek thing is peanuts compared to American deficit spending.  The tea party people, and I have never been to a tea party, are at least starting the discussion about our out of control spending.  Do not be mistaken, the Repubs have for the most part often gone along with the Dems spending plans until recently.  There are also constitutional issues.  Many of the initiatives undertaken by the Fed Gov since WW2 are quite probably unconstitutional.  Read the constitution and the bill of rights.  I have and you should read it also.  It is not real long - you can do it.  Once you read it, it will amaze you what the Repubs and Dems have been up to the last 50 years.  It is an outrage.  If we had followed the constitution we would not be in the mess we are in now.  Just the opposite, we would be the strongest country on the face of the earth by far, a powerhouse of manufacturing an finance instead of the largest debtor nation - a pathetic relic of what we used to be.  We screwed up big time.  The education system failed to teach the people the right stuff and the government ran amok as a result and now we are in the biggest trouble we have ever been in.  And that is just the way it is.

The vast majority of the people believe the un-truths that many have posted to this thread.  I attribute this to a failure in the education system.  America used to have the best education system in the world.  Now it is 22nd.  Even more importantly, we have been teaching our children the wrong stuff for 50 years.  When we should have been teaching them about the constitution and value of self reliance and hard work and honest behavior, we instead taught them to become members of the class of entitlement.

I no longer believe that America can control spending.  I used to believe that we could.  No longer.  As one of the world's un-truths becomes better understood, that America is strong and can stop its irresponsible spending, there will be a loss of faith in America and the dollar.  Once that happens we will be on the journey down the road of no return - the road to financial disaster.

 

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
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ao wrote: land2341
ao wrote:
land2341 wrote:

There is no such thing as truth.  

Oh yes there is unless you're an adherent to moral relativism which I'm not.  Real truth is clear and absolute.

I would also take him up on:

land2341 wrote:

There are no such things as facts.

The Earth is round.  That's a fact!  it's also true......

Mike

land2341's picture
land2341
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Damnthematrix wrote: ao
Damnthematrix wrote:
ao wrote:
land2341 wrote:

There is no such thing as truth.  

Oh yes there is unless you're an adherent to moral relativism which I'm not.  Real truth is clear and absolute.

I would also take him up on:

land2341 wrote:

There are no such things as facts.

The Earth is round.  That's a fact!  it's also true......

Mike

Ah, but it clearly was not always true.  It was not always the fact.  Never lose sight of the transient nature of facts.  We all know now that the world is round,  but it actually isn't "round" as it is sort of elliptical and flexes and bulges as it rotates....  So we could argue it.  Besides what if there is another dimension we are as yet un-aware of.....

I am not saying it isn't true.  I am just reminding you that so much of what we believe is arguable and has been argued before.   Currently there are alot of things people believe that we here on CM do not believe.  Which one fails first??  Remember to question what you believe......

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Dogs_In_A_Pile
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The Earth is round...ish
Damnthematrix wrote:
ao wrote:
land2341 wrote:

There is no such thing as truth.  

Oh yes there is unless you're an adherent to moral relativism which I'm not.  Real truth is clear and absolute.

I would also take him up on:

land2341 wrote:

There are no such things as facts.

The Earth is round.  That's a fact!  it's also true......

Mike

The Earth is an oblate spheroid.

The Earth's polar circumference is 40,008 km, compared to the equatorial circumference of 40,076 km.

Yeah, I know, you already knew that.

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