The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various oppositional factions find common ground for a “revolution” ?

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The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various oppositional factions find common ground for a “revolution” ?

Glenn Beck and left-right confusion

Klint Finley

Some of this confusion is attributable to the fact that Beck himself doesn’t really appear to have any actual, identifiable political beliefs; he just mutates into whatever is likely to draw the most attention for himself and whatever satisfies his emotional cravings of the moment. Although he now parades around under a rhetorical banner of small-government liberty, anti-imperialism, and opposition to the merger of corporations and government (as exemplified by the Bush-sponsored Wall Street bailout), it wasn’t all that long ago that he was advocating exactly the opposite: paying homage to the Patriot Act, defending the Wall Street bailout and arguing it should have been larger, and spouting standard neoconservative cartoon propaganda about The Global Islamo-Nazi Jihadists and all that it justifies. Even the quasi-demented desire for a return to 9/12 — as though the country should be stuck permanently in a state of terrorism-induced trauma and righteous, nationalistic fury over an allegedly existential Enemy — is the precise antithesis of the war-opposing, neocon-hating views held by many libertarian and paleoconservative factions with which Beck has now associated himself. Still other aspects of his ranting are obviously grounded in highly familiar, right-wing paranoia. [...]

Is opposition to the Wall Street bailout (supported by both parties’ establishments) left or right? How about the view that Washington is inherently corrupt and beholden to the richest corporate interests and banks which, through lobbyist influence and vast financial contributions, own and control our political system? Is hostility towards Beltway elites liberal or conservative? Is opposition to the Surveillance State and endless expansions of federal police powers a view of liberals (who vehemently opposed such measures during the Bush era but now sometimes support or at least tolerate them) or conservatives (some of whom — the Ron Paul faction — objected just as vigorously, and naturally oppose such things regardless of who is in power as transgressions of the proper limits of government)? Liberals during the Bush era continuously complained about the doubling of the national debt, a central concern of many of these “tea party” protesters. Is the belief that Washington politicians are destroying the economic security of the middle class, while the rich grow richer, a liberal or conservative view? Opposition to endless wars and bankruptcy-inducing imperial policy generally finds as much expression among certain quarters on the Right as it does on the Left. [...]

Are the views expressed in that paragraph liberal or conservative ones? They’re neither. Instead, they’re the by-product of a completely different dichotomy that is growing in importance: between system insiders and their admirers (those who believe our national political establishment and its elites are basically sound and good) and system outsiders (those whose anger is confined not to one of the two political parties but who instead believe that the political culture itself is fundamentally corrupted and destructive).

Glenn Greenwald: Glenn Beck and left-right confusion

Is there enough common ground between various oppositional forces to stage even a modest “revolution” (for lack of a better word)?

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What does Glenn Beck say?

For $50 million he'll say whatever he's paid to say!! Money mouth

Just remember who his boss is..... Rupert Murdoch!!

Do you think Beck is really the peoples champion?

Consider this...

Now who do you think Mr Murdoch really cares about?

The people or the 'Big Club'?

So why does Beck 'appear' to be on the side of the people?

Think about it!

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Re: What does Glenn Beck say?

Thank you.

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Re: What does Glenn Beck say?

Do you really think that Robert Murdoch tells Glenn Beck what to say? Have you noticed a difference in what Glenn Beck says now versus his message when he was on CNN last year? I don't believe Robert Murdoch owns the radio stations in which Glenn Beck carries his show... do you notice a different line of thought in comparison of his tv and radio shows? How about his latest book which is published through a company owned by CBS... do you feel it was written under the direction of them?

Glenn Beck is a wild card. Love him or hate him, I cannot believe he is under anyones control.

TD

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

Many of the things Glenn Beck is now saying and raising awareness about resonate well with me. But I have difficulty in believing that Fox News is going to be the true leader in any revolutionary change that might take place. People expect to see a "counterpoint" to liberal politics and Fox News fills that niche. Not only is this profitable, but it adds a (false) sense of legitimacy to the mainstream media. Americans need to realize first that regardless of our disagreements over potential solutions, we all share common problems. Thus far, the mainstream media has done a poor job of actually sharing information or discussing them. That's right, theoretically, news media should be seeking to inform and enlighten. How often does that happen.

Further, the more that Fox News gets involved, the more that any of the awareness that is spreading will be labeled as "astroturf," "wing nut," etc. And it will be used to entrench liberals more firmly in their agenda, against what they will be told is an aggressive right wing plot. I'm sick of hearing about wings. The original meanings have become completely corrupted anyway.

Crisis solution steps:

1. Americans must first be unhappy with their circumstances and have a strong desire, commitment, and belief in the possibility of meaningful change. This *might* be moving along now. It is at least part of the basis for Obama's election, though its focus has now turned into distraction and confusion.

2. Americans must correctly identify the systemic, underlying, root cause problems that are hurting this country and destroying its people. I don't believe it is race, gender, or sexual orientation politics. I don't believe it is health care. It is not swine flu. It isn't even simply "unemployment," or "mortgages" or "poverty" or "war." We have to dig deeper to see the causes and not simply the effects and most in this country are not there yet.

3. We must debate and discuss solutions after we can agree on the problems. If we never reach a point of understanding on the root causes, it is pointless to discuss solutions and this is the vicious cycle in which we are trapped. We argue over problems (the wrong ones) and then when a party is in power they ram through solutions to problems that many don't even think are real. Then the other party reverses it all back again. Wash, rinse, repeat.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

Beck is making a nice buck pretending to be a reformer of sorts.  He's a neocon shill dispatched to blame the left with his tearful pleading that FOX news viewers find appealing.  One day he's name calling Ron Paul supporters, the day before 9/12 victim families, muslims, etc, while the next day he cries because the country is nearing collapse.

That said, I think he helps wake up some people, which is good, as long as they wake up to him in the process.

Larry 

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Re: What does Glenn Beck say?
TD wrote:

Do you really think that Robert Murdoch tells Glenn Beck what to say? Have you noticed a difference in what Glenn Beck says now versus his message when he was on CNN last year? I don't believe Robert Murdoch owns the radio stations in which Glenn Beck carries his show... do you notice a different line of thought in comparison of his tv and radio shows? How about his latest book which is published through a company owned by CBS... do you feel it was written under the direction of them?

Glenn Beck is a wild card. Love him or hate him, I cannot believe he is under anyones control.

TD

Not long ago Beck was pro Bush, pro wars, pro bank bailouts (he actually stated $700 billion wasn't enough), anti Ron Paul (Ron Paul is dangerous and his supporters are potential terrorists) etc, etc.

But that was not how a lot of disenfranchised Americans felt.

So a new  $50 million deal with Fox and "Oh my, I 've seen the light!!"

Can't you see that all Beck is doing is succesfully capturing a sizeable part of the Liberatarian movement in order to ensure a Republican victory in 2012?

IMO it's about manipulation and I think his motives are provided by his employers.

If you think someone like Murdoch has no influence over Beck then I feel (with respect) you are being a little naive.

Do you really believe that Murdoch left Australia and took out U.S. citizenship just because he liked your hamburgers?

Think about it... NO ONE spends $50 million dollars without an agenda and an axe to grind.

If the Republicans were in office right now and following the exact same line as the democrats Beck wouldn't be making the same noises.

Just how critical was Beck of the bank bailouts under Bush with Hank Paulson pointing a loaded gun (martial law) at congress and demanding $700 billion with NO OVERSIGHT?

As I stated, Beck was quite happy when all this was being being done by a Republican administration.

So yes, many can relate and agree with what Beck is trumpeting now... but just understand what the motives are behind the rhetoric.

Democrat, Republican, black, white it makes little difference.

The two party system is little more than a  two headed snake being shaken by the tail by TPTB.

The last administration was run by the 'Military Industrial Complex' and 'Big Oil'.

This current one is owned by Wall Street and also now the pharmacuetical industry with billions about to be made out of mass swine flu vaccinations.

It just depends on who's vested interests are served best by a particular 'captured administration'.

So pick your bogey man, there's two to choose from!

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Glenn Beck and the Hegelian dialectic

Hi, Folks;

Here's my take on it:

Glenn Beck is just another facet of the Hegelian dialectical strategy that is being applied to our population .  . . . The goal is to destroy our constitution-based government, which is based on self-evident rights and principles, and to shift power to the executive branch and to local communities.  Dean Gotcher, an expert in the study of the Hegelian dialectic, describes it as "a specific psychological method used with diverse groups to 'dialogue to consensus' ".  It frequently manifests itself in our political culture as "reinventing government", a concept popularized by the Clinton administration.  Through a series of staged "opposing views", and the "resolution" of those conflicts, popular opinion is nudged toward the desired goal . . . .

Gotcher explained the Hegelian dialectic this way:

"There is the thesis, which is you and your position, and is based on facts and what you believe.  Antithesis is somebody who's different from you.  For example, the moment the two of you, who are different, are in the same room, there's a potential relationship.  However, the only way you can get to it  is synthesis [agreement in the relationship].  You and the other person have to put your differences aside for the sake of a relationship and try to find facts or elements in your belief systems which are in harmony.  [Interestingly,] this process of changing your position to blend with someone else basically is how socialism works.  Eventually, if that [maintenance of the relationship] becomes your agenda . . . . it puts aside anything that gets in the way of the relationship."  Consequently, the individual sacrifices their own principles for the principles of the group.  This can be exceedingly powerful, if one can control the group's [hidden] agenda, by covert means.

So, through the Hegelian dialectic, individuals are goaded into subverting their own principles, or those of their faith or previous political orientation (say, Constitutional government), for the good of "the community".  The community, however, is not an organic group of individuals who are independently working to find solutions, but rather, a carefully steered entity.  Any opposition to the agenda of "the community"  which is now homogenous, in goals and agenda, with the now all-powerful executive "branch" (the legislative is rendered powerless) is isolated, discredited, or shamed as a "danger to the unity of the community".  So, communalism, which is a form of socialism, is a tool used to further an agenda over a very large population (say, the world). 

Through the magic of "public-private partnerships", the now all-powerful executive branch is controlled by business, because when two entities are partners, with uneven financial means, the better funded of the two controls the outcome.  This is the essence of fascism -- the marriage of the corporation with government.  So, in the end, what you have is a fascist government with all dissent controlled through the illusion of participation in a "democratic" community.  Through the Hegelian dialectic, the views of the populace are gradually brought in line with the agenda of the government, which has been reduced to an all-powerful executive branch, controlled by the corporation.

So, what does this have to do with Glenn Beck, you ask? . . . . . He's just another tool in the ongoing "dialogue", nudging us toward "consensus" . . . . Urging us to abandon our previously held views, "for the sake of unity" . . . . . You can be sure that the "consensus" will undercut Consitutional government, even more than it already has been, regardless of Beck's conveniently shifting political ideology.  Every hour of every day, the "talking heads" rage on about the improprieties, ignorance, and abuse of power of Congress (the legislative branch) . . . . But criticism of the shocking usurpations of the executive branch are limited to the occasional murmur, and never begins to expose the true nature of the powers seized in the form of executive orders.  The legislative branch . . . . one of the "checks and balances" that was put in place by our Founding Fathers, as a guard against tyranny, is being undermined to make way for a new form of government . . . . To be sure, that new form goes under very "warm and fuzzy" names . . . . "change" . . . . "reinvented government" . . . . "community" . . . . "saving the environment" . . . . "sustainability" . . . . but, if you want to know the truth, watch what they do . . . . not what they say . . . .

 

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Re: Glenn Beck and the Hegelian dialectic

Excellent analysis C1oudfire.

 

Mike Pilat said:

Crisis solution steps:

1. Americans must first be unhappy with their circumstances and have a strong desire, commitment, and belief in the possibility of meaningful change. This *might* be moving along now. It is at least part of the basis for Obama's election, though its focus has now turned into distraction and confusion.

2. Americans must correctly identify the systemic, underlying, root cause problems that are hurting this country and destroying its people. I don't believe it is race, gender, or sexual orientation politics. I don't believe it is health care. It is not swine flu. It isn't even simply "unemployment," or "mortgages" or "poverty" or "war." We have to dig deeper to see the causes and not simply the effects and most in this country are not there yet.

3. We must debate and discuss solutions after we can agree on the problems. If we never reach a point of understanding on the root causes, it is pointless to discuss solutions and this is the vicious cycle in which we are trapped. We argue over problems (the wrong ones) and then when a party is in power they ram through solutions to problems that many don't even think are real. Then the other party reverses it all back again. Wash, rinse, repeat.________________

My added thoughts:

1. Americans must first be unhappy with their circumstances and have a strong desire, commitment, and belief in the possibility of meaningful change. This *might* be moving along now. It is at least part of the basis for Obama's election, though its focus has now turned into distraction and confusion.

This process will take another 4 to 5 years to gain traction in the larger populus. The mainstream media  machine is working overtime to apply  propoganda eyewash. Most cogs in our society don't have the energy or intelligence to research these issues to gain the unvarnished facts.

2. Americans must correctly identify the systemic, underlying, root cause problems that are hurting this country and destroying its people. I don't believe it is race, gender, or sexual orientation politics. I don't believe it is health care. It is not swine flu. It isn't even simply "unemployment," or "mortgages" or "poverty" or "war." We have to dig deeper to see the causes and not simply the effects and most in this country are not there yet.

The root cause of the problem is the pernicious alliance between major business corporations and state, called corporatocracy.

3. We must debate and discuss solutions after we can agree on the problems. If we never reach a point of understanding on the root causes, it is pointless to discuss solutions and this is the vicious cycle in which we are trapped. We argue over problems (the wrong ones) and then when a party is in power they ram through solutions to problems that many don't even think are real. Then the other party reverses it all back again. Wash, rinse, repeat.________________

A public unarmed with knowledgs and facts is easily manipulated by the political/corporate elite and the digital media Bosses. What the politicians ram through is what comes out of the corporate lobbyist-pleasing sausage machine.

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Hegelian dialect, continued

Hi, XRM;

The Hegelian dialectic can be quite insidiously used . . . . For instance, this question, "Can the various oppositional factions find common ground for a revolution ?", which is part of the title of this thread, could be interpreted as an attempt to build "consensus", and thereby to commandeer public opinon . . . . "Common ground" is a Hegelian buzz-phrase.  Don't get me wrong . . . I'm not saying that's your motive in starting this thread . . . . but rather I am attempting to point out how insidiously the rhetoric of the Hegelian dialectic is woven into our culture . . . . Appeals to "unity", for the sake of "revolution", as a "bottom up" or ostensibly "grassroots" movement work perfectly for a fascist or socialist agenda . . . . or an amalgam of the two, for that matter.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/22/glenn_beck_two/index.html

This is an amazing bio-article on Beck.

There was a thread a few months back, in which Chris welcomed Glenn Beck listeners.  This was the first time I'd ever heard of him, and my trust and admiration in Chris's opinion is such that I have an open mind to anything he says.  I wrote in, echoing the welcome, and although I still don't regret it (I do believe that everyone should be welcome to this site), I have since then watched a few of his episodes and read a lot more about him.  And I do believe he will do anything for attention, including adopting whatever stance seems to be on the cutting edge.

If this article has a grain of truth, it becomes quite telling of what drives Beck.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

I read Glen Beck's book, "Common Sense", based upon Thomas Paine's original, and found it to be very good. I have also liked most, but not all, of the Glen Beck shows that I have seen.

That said, Glen Beck still seems to be viewed with some skepticism within the libertarian movement. I attended the Northeast Conference of the Campaign for Liberty last weekend, featuring Ron Paul, Judge Napolitano, Tom Woods (author of "Breakdown", etc.), Peter Schiff, and Daniel Hannan (the British MEP who famously lambasted PM Gordon Brown in parliament), and it was a fantastic conference. Anyway, Glen Beck's name came up several times during the conference, and the consensus opinion seemed to be that while those in the libertarian movement were happy to see the attention that Glen Beck was bringing to the cause, most seemed to be less than trustful of his intentions. It may be that he is a "true believer", but he may simply be an opportunist. Time will tell, I suppose.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

C1oudfire,

What do you see as the root problem? For me it is clear what the root problem is. I stated it in post #8. What is your definition of socialist?

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Stay tuned . . . .
xraymike79 wrote:

C1oudfire,

What do you see as the root problem? For me it is clear what the root problem is. I stated it in post #8. What is your definition of socialist?

Hi, XRM;

I really don't mean to be evasive, but it is not possible for me to answer your first question honestly, and fully, within the confines of CM's "Rules of Engagement", er, Posting Rules . . . . .

With regard to socialism, I think that it's clear that there is the ostensible definition, and then there's the covert motive and agenda . . . . . That's a big question . . . . I'll try to make time later to go into that, but right now, daylight is a'wastin' . . . .

I hope you haven't taken offense to my comments, XRM . . . . I thoroughly appreciate your posts . . . . You have a seemingly endless supply of resources . . . . I look forward to more . . . . Thanks!

 

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

Can sufficient common ground be found among a diverse group of people and worldviews to re-establish a constitutional government as envisioned by the founding fathers?

What an excellent question.

I’d like to think so but it would be naïve to think that this is possible in the face of significant philosophical headwinds.

It is one thing to bemoan political and corporate corruption.  It is easy to identify fiscal and monetary irresponsibility.  It is no great task to see a shift away from personal freedom towards centralized power. 

It is quite another for a representative republic to retrace its political and civic roots and return to a form a government envisioned and established by our founding fathers.

The biggest head wind this country has to restoring personal freedoms (IMO) is conflicting and shifting worldviews that have developed over the last two hundred years within the culture.

There was significant diversity of thought and belief among the founding fathers and the colonies as a whole but there was a dominate monotheistic worldview that served as a frame work and foundation for shared core values that permeate  the culture and worked its way into every facet of society.

Benjamin Rush and Thomas Jefferson had vigorous and impassioned debates over their difference of opinions regarding theology, religion, and politics.  But both were monotheists had had shared core values that naturally and logically flow from that worldview.

I’m not proposing that monotheism is required for the reestablishment of a constitutional republic.  I’m simply pointing out how the presence of incompatible worldviews and systems of morality will make it extremely difficult to return to re-establish the government formed by the founding fathers.

Quote:

"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

October 11, 1798  John Adams

Quote:

“Human government is more or less perfect as it approaches nearer or diverges farther from the imitation of this perfect plan of divine and moral government. “

John Adams, draft of a Newspaper Communication, Circa August 1770

 

Quote:

All of us who were engaged in the struggle must have observed frequent instances of superintending providence in our favor. To that kind providence we owe this happy opportunity of consulting in peace on the means of establishing our future national felicity. And have we now forgotten that powerful friend? Or do we imagine that we no longer need his assistance? I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the Ground without his Notice, is it probable that an Empire can rise without his Aid?"

Benjamin Franklin, To Colleagues at the Constitutional Convention

 

Quote:

John Hancock:
• “In circumstances as dark as these, it becomes us, as Men and Christians, to reflect that whilst every prudent measure should be taken to ward off the impending judgments, …at the same time all confidence must be withheld from the means we use; and reposed only on that God rules in the armies of Heaven, and without His whole blessing, the best human counsels are but foolishness… Resolved; …Thursday the 11th of May…to humble themselves before God under the heavy judgments felt and feared, to confess the sins that have deserved them, to implore the Forgiveness of all our transgressions, and a spirit of repentance and reformation …and a Blessing on the … Union of the American Colonies in Defense of their Rights [for which hitherto we desire to thank Almighty God]…That the people of Great Britain and their rulers may have their eyes opened to discern the things that shall make for the peace of the nation…for the redress of America’s many grievances, the restoration of all her invaded liberties, and their security to the latest generations.

"A Day of Fasting, Humiliation and Prayer, with a total abstinence from labor and recreation. Proclamation on April 15, 1775"

Quote:

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” (excerpts are inscribed on the walls of the Jefferson Memorial in the nations capital) [Source: Merrill . D. Peterson, ed., Jefferson Writings, (New York: Literary Classics of the United States, Inc., 1984), Vol. IV, p. 289. From Jefferson’s Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, 1781.]

Thomas Jefferson

 

Quote:

“ We’ve staked our future on our ability to follow the Ten Commandments with all of our heart.”

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” [1778 to the General Assembly of the State of Virginia]

James Madison

Quote:

“ It has been the error of the schools to teach astronomy, and all the other sciences, and subjects of natural philosophy, as accomplishments only; whereas they should be taught theologically, or with reference to the Being who is the author of them: for all the principles of science are of divine origin. Man cannot make, or invent, or contrive principles: he can only discover them; and he ought to look through the discovery to the Author.”

“ The evil that has resulted from the error of the schools, in teaching natural philosophy as an accomplishment only, has been that of generating in the pupils a species of atheism. Instead of looking through the works of creation to the Creator himself, they stop short, and employ the knowledge they acquire to create doubts of his existence. They labour with studied ingenuity to ascribe every thing they behold to innate properties of matter, and jump over all the rest by saying, that matter is eternal.” “The Existence of God--1810”

Thomas Paine

Quote:

“I lament that we waste so much time and money in punishing crimes and take so little pains to prevent them…we neglect the only means of establishing and perpetuating our republican forms of government; that is, the universal education of our youth in the principles of Christianity by means of the Bible; for this Divine Book, above all others, constitutes the soul of republicanism.” “By withholding the knowledge of [the Scriptures] from children, we deprive ourselves of the best means of awakening moral sensibility in their minds.” [Letter written (1790’s) in Defense of the Bible in all schools in America]

Benjamin Rush

Quote:

“The duties of men are summarily comprised in the Ten Commandments, consisting of two tables; one comprehending the duties which we owe immediately to God-the other, the duties we owe to our fellow men.”

“In my view, the Christian religion is the most important and one of the first things in which all children, under a free government ought to be instructed...No truth is more evident to my mind than that the Christian religion must be the basis of any government intended to secure the rights and privileges of a free people.”
[Source: 1828, in the preface to his American Dictionary of the English Language]

Noah Webster

Quote:

The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion" ...and later: "...reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle..." Farewell Address

“ It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.”

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” [speech to the Delaware Indian Chiefs May 12, 1779]

George Washington

To argue that America is or is not/was or was not a “Christian” nation totally misses the point. 

The Founding Fathers had huge differences of opinion in matters of theology and religion.  What they shared was a common belief in a Monotheistic Creator and a divine moral law.  These were the philosophical foundations and shared core values and understanding of ethics and morality from which the government was formed.

Absent a generally accepted and shared world view it is improbable that agreement can be reached beyond identifying problems and a shared passion to effect change.  Beyond that it will be difficult to achieve and maintain actionable cohesion that restores freedom in my opinion.

I would love to be proved wrong because I don’t see that it is likely or probable in a postmodernist world.

We face many severe challenges as a nation.  Time will tell with we are up to the task.

As for Glenn Beck, I'm not that familiar with him.  I've only started to catch him from time to time recently.  I'm open to the possibility that all people are capable of change when confronted with the reality of how bad things really are.

For now, I'm happy to give him the benefit of doubt until he's shown to be unworthy of my trust.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

npwebb: Thank you for this, it is a powerful piece.

You raise a very important point in saying this. The "user manual" for how to run the United States of America can be thought of to be the Declaration of Independence, The Constiution, and the Bill of rights, with further explanation from the designers given in their books, letters, debates, and other writings.

As the founders most clearly indicate, there are prerequisites that our founding documents presuppose. In broad terms, the documents assume religious and moral beliefs that at least rhyme.

We have moral people left in this country, that cannot be denied. But that said, there are the outright immoral that plunder the many, then there are another collection that would plunder if they could get away with it. The group that wouldn't even if they could seems to diminish each year, unfortunately. It's been said that citizen imitate their government and this seems to be the case here. Maybe it's the other way around, maybe there's a lag, ok. But I think there is a lot of truth in saying there is a correlation between the the morality of government and the morality of the citizens.

In some ways, it is easier to evaluate the morality of the high profile leaders in government and corporations because their actions obvious to all, even if their motivations are not. We have most certainly seen a great deal of moral degradation amongst our leaders in the past century. It's gotten to the point where I could swear that as a group of citizens we have become so accustomed to being abused and deceived that we are experiencing a form of collective Stockholm Syndrome

We are shifting to the terminal phase of the life cycle of a government or empire. As Frederic Bastiat informed us, the final stage consists of a lack of moral values amongst everyone. Here, laws don't apply like they should, and everyone plunders everyone else. To put an end to the cancer afflicting our nation, we must first as individuals make a commitment to morals based on timeless values rather than morals based purely on profit or soley on what we can get away with. This doesn't require a specific type of religion, but it does require specific types of behavior when confronted with specific situations.

 

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It's really not such a mystery . . . .

Thanks, NPW;

Nicely done . . . You've done an excellent job of revealing exactly what we've traded off, and what we've gotten in return . . . . In the end, one might say that there are no "victims" here . . . . We were given the owners' manual, and failed to change the oil  . . . .  Such a waste . . . . Frown

 

 

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xraymike79
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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

We are shifting to the terminal phase of the life cycle of a government or empire. As Frederic Bastiat informed us, the final stage consists of a lack of moral values amongst everyone. Here, laws don't apply like they should, and everyone plunders everyone else. To put an end to the cancer afflicting our nation, we must first as individuals make a commitment to morals based on timeless values rather than morals based purely on profit or soley on what we can get away with. This doesn't require a specific type of religion, but it does require specific types of behavior when confronted with specific situations.

 

It would seem that those of decent moral character and intellect who would run for office end up getting marginalized and overshadowed by the corrupt and amoral controlling power structure we have today. God help us.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

i think Glenn Beck does a good job at getting people to realize all the smoke and mirrors our government is playing.  But overall he is focused on problems versus focused on solutions.  By keeping his audience members in fear with what the government and corporations are doing, he robs them of the ability to focus on coming up with solutions to get us out of this mess.

Any fool can look at a problem and develo what if scenarios and point figners, but it takes wisdom and creativity to find effecient solutions as well as courage to step up and voice them.  Our nation is in such bad condition that the Glenn Beck's of the world are becoming a dime a dozen.  What is a rarity are people who have real solutions, have the guts to voice them, and the deterimination to implement them.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...
ccpetersmd wrote:
I attended the Northeast Conference of the Campaign for Liberty last weekend, featuring Ron Paul, Judge Napolitano, Tom Woods (author of "Breakdown", etc.), Peter Schiff, and Daniel Hannan (the British MEP who famously lambasted PM Gordon Brown in parliament), and it was a fantastic conference.
Judge Napolitano is the one guy I really like on FOX.  I would love to hear him speak, he is a consistent constitutionalists and a really bright guy.  I'd also like to hear Hannan.  How were they?
Larry
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rowmat
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What I believe TPTB and the likes of Beck are trying to prevent.

I think the real motive here (concerning the likes of Beck etc) is an attempt to torpedo the makings of a potential THIRD political party.

By ignoring the increasing anger of the masses there is a risk of them forming something new that TPTB won't  control quite so easily.

There are many people who have had a gutfull of both Dems and Reps and trust neither.

Throughout this crisis there has been a groundswell developing and talk of the possibilty of a new third political force emerging.

In the political scheme of things it is much easier for TPTB to manipulate the majority of the 'sheeple' with a two party, 'us or them','good guy. bad guy', black or white' system as it more readily serves the purpose of keeping the people divided (and thus in conflict with each other rather than the system itself) and provides two paths for the 'sheeple' to travel down, but utlimately leads them to the same knackery!

Beck is IMO attempting to steer people back to the Republican camp which ultimately will just be more-of-the-same and simply preserve the same system that is both corrupt and, IMO, has reached critical mass.

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Re: What I believe TPTB and the likes of Beck are trying to ...
rowmat wrote:

Beck is IMO attempting to steer people back to the Republican camp which ultimately will just be more-of-the-same and simply preserve the same system that is both corrupt and, IMO, has reached critical mass.

In the short time I’ve watched Beck I’ve heard him EXPLICITLY state on more than one occasion that both the Democrat and Republican parties are two different sides of the same coin moving towards a larger central government. 

I’m skeptical that he is intentionally attempting to derail a third party movement. 

I am personally ready to abandon my political affiliation and re-register as an independent. 

That being said (call me a pessimist), I am highly skeptical that a viable third party will emerge to effectively challenge the political establishment. 

I’m almost as skeptical when it comes to the proposition that either of the two major political parties can be successfully gutted of corruption and special interest influence. 

If you were to back me into a corner and demand that I pick one option as more likely than the other, I guess I’d have to say that the chances of one party cleaning up its own act and returning to constitutional governance is more probable than the possibility of successful third party bid to clean up the system. 

But this is pure speculation on my part.  

As for Beck, I’ll take him at face value until his integrity has been demonstrably shown to be faulty.

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A little news on Glenn Beck

Have all of you heard, by now, that Mayor of Burlington, WA had invited Glenn Beck to receive the keys to his city next week?

However, front page of the local newspaper carried the story today "City Council votes 7 to 0 against the Mayor's invitation, at their meeting last night, at which dozens of people were on the agenda to speak against he mayor's action, and presented a petition with more than 16,000 names on it."

I guess people somewhere in the world don't care for his Limbaugh-type rhetoric.

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Re: What I believe TPTB and the likes of Beck are trying to ...
Quote:

In the short time I’ve watched Beck I’ve heard him EXPLICITLY state on more than one occasion that both the Democrat and Republican parties are two different sides of the same coin moving towards a larger central government. 

I’m skeptical that he is intentionally attempting to derail a third party movement. 

I am personally ready to abandon my political affiliation and re-register as an independent. 

That being said (call me a pessimist), I am highly skeptical that a viable third party will emerge to effectively challenge the political establishment. 

I’m almost as skeptical when it comes to the proposition that either of the two major political parties can be successfully gutted of corruption and special interest influence. 

If you were to back me into a corner and demand that I pick one option as more likely than the other, I guess I’d have to say that the chances of one party cleaning up its own act and returning to constitutional governance is more probable than the possibility of successful third party bid to clean up the system. 

But this is pure speculation on my part.  

As for Beck, I’ll take him at face value until his integrity has been demonstrably shown to be faulty.

Of course maybe the purpose REALLY IS a third party created by TPTB to hi-jack the revolution before it turns against them... did you consider the 'Glenn Beck' party? After all it IS America!

Think about it... if Beck threw his hat into the political ring what would be the response?

There's something brewing with this whole 'Beck thing' and I'm not sure that it's as noble as some people believe.

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Synthesis?
rowmat wrote:

Of course maybe the purpose REALLY IS a third party created by TPTB to hi-jack the revolution before it turns against them... did you consider the 'Glenn Beck' party? After all it IS America!

Think about it... if Beck threw his hat into the political ring what would be the response?

There's something brewing with this whole 'Beck thing' and I'm not sure that it's as noble as some people believe.

thesis . . . . . . .  antithesis ------> synthesis

right . . . . . . . . . left ----------------->consensus

Republican . . . Democrat  ------->Third Party

Beware the "solution", built upon "consensus" . . . . . We've been primed by the media to be disgusted with the way "congress just can't get anything done because of "partisan politics" . . . . . . Watch for the "solution" that we're presented with, as a way of reconciling opposing views . . .

The Hegelian dialectic is a masterful strategy because it appears, to the relatively passive participants, (as opposed to the manipulators who are in on the game), to be a process in which we all have influence . . . . But what actually happens is that two "opposing" groups are pitted against one another, and the "cancellation effect" leaves a gap into which the "solution" can be inserted. 

In a sense, it's a game . . . . but a perverse one . . . .

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...
Mike Pilat wrote:

The "user manual" for how to run the United States of America can be thought of to be the Declaration of Independence, The Constiution, and the Bill of rights, with further explanation from the designers given in their books, letters, debates, and other writings.

As the founders most clearly indicate, there are prerequisites that our founding documents presuppose. In broad terms, the documents assume religious and moral beliefs that at least rhyme.

To put an end to the cancer afflicting our nation, we must first as individuals make a commitment to morals based on timeless values rather than morals based purely on profit or soley on what we can get away with. This doesn't require a specific type of religion, but it does require specific types of behavior when confronted with specific situations.

Very nicely stated, Mike, thanks!

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...
DrKrbyLuv wrote:
Judge Napolitano is the one guy I really like on FOX.  I would love to hear him speak, he is a consistent constitutionalists and a really bright guy.  I'd also like to hear Hannan.  How were they?
Larry

Larry, both were absolutely awesome! I didn't speak with Napolitano face-to-face, but his speech was fantastic. In the Q&A session, he was asked when he would run for President. He demurred, respectfully advocating for Ron Paul in 2012, but there was a palpable excitement in the audience at the suggestion. At 74, I suspect Dr. Paul will run again, if only to increase support for his cause, but I can't imagine he would run again in 2016. He'd be a great President, I have no doubt, but that is a lot to take on at any age! Hannan's speech was equally fantastic, but in a different way. He's a British MEP, but has cousins in the Philadelphia area, and an obvious fondness for America. The conclusion of his speech, citing obligations to our country's founders as well as our children, brought a tear to my eye, I have to admit. In person, Hannan was charming and authentic. I had a brief email correspondence with him several months back, and he seemed to actually remember the exchange! His blog is excellent, too!

 

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Re: What I believe TPTB and the likes of Beck are trying to ...
npwebb wrote:
rowmat wrote:

Beck is IMO attempting to steer people back to the Republican camp which ultimately will just be more-of-the-same and simply preserve the same system that is both corrupt and, IMO, has reached critical mass.

In the short time I’ve watched Beck I’ve heard him EXPLICITLY state on more than one occasion that both the Democrat and Republican parties are two different sides of the same coin moving towards a larger central government. 

I’m skeptical that he is intentionally attempting to derail a third party movement. 

I am personally ready to abandon my political affiliation and re-register as an independent. 

That being said (call me a pessimist), I am highly skeptical that a viable third party will emerge to effectively challenge the political establishment. 

I’m almost as skeptical when it comes to the proposition that either of the two major political parties can be successfully gutted of corruption and special interest influence. 

If you were to back me into a corner and demand that I pick one option as more likely than the other, I guess I’d have to say that the chances of one party cleaning up its own act and returning to constitutional governance is more probable than the possibility of successful third party bid to clean up the system. 

But this is pure speculation on my part.  

As for Beck, I’ll take him at face value until his integrity has been demonstrably shown to be faulty.

Well said. The party system is very frustrating but I do not see anything changing for the better unfortunately.

As for Beck, I think he is genuine and the rest of media is scared to death of him.  He has a huge following and it is growing by leaps and bounds. I agree he does concentrate on problems but that is his intent.  He admits that he is not qualified to solve anything but believes he is good at bringging important issues to the forefront for us to decide.  Isn't that all we really ask for anyway.  Most TVs have a button to change the channel if you don't agree but by looking at the numbers a mass of followers seem to be tuning in not tuning out.

There is just a tendency to tear down anyone with success regardless of which side they are on.

BJ

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

Glenn Beck is an entertainer, not a believer.

Genn Beck might seem alright for now but I will bet he will be distinctly unhelpful in the long run to the Liberty movement.   Just remember a few years ago he was attacking Ron Paul as crazy and his followers as dangerous.  He also supported much of Bush's agenda, including I believe the wars and initial bailouts.  I predict that in the end he will try and push Liberty awakend people back to the mainstream corporate Republican party where they will be betrayed.

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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...
goes211 wrote:

Glenn Beck is an entertainer, not a believer.

That's exactly right, Glenn believes only in Glenn .. but what else can a person believe in these days?  

I do like his beetlejuice impersonation though Laughing

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xraymike79
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Re: The Confusion of Glenn Beck - Can the various ...

Glenn Beck is an entertainer, not a believer.

Genn Beck might seem alright for now but I will bet he will be distinctly unhelpful in the long run to the Liberty movement.   Just remember a few years ago he was attacking Ron Paul as crazy and his followers as dangerous.  He also supported much of Bush's agenda, including I believe the wars and initial bailouts.  I predict that in the end he will try and push Liberty awakend people back to the mainstream corporate Republican party where they will be betrayed.

My sentiments exactly.

 

'Story of Stuff' Video Creates Controversy [ with Glenn Beck ]
Thursday, September 24, 2009

filed under: family

Not all parents are thrilled that this is being shown in classrooms.

The story of stuff

The New York Times has called "The Story of Stuff" -- Annie Leonard's 20-minute expose on the hidden environmental and social costs of current systems of production and consumption -- a "sleeper hit in classrooms across the nation." They say: "The video is a cheerful but brutal assessment of how much Americans waste."

But the video definitely has its detractors ... including Glenn Beck. "Indoctrination? Actually, the progressives are starting much younger these days ... there is a video being played in schools all across America -- that lays out the 'story of stuff' a loving, anti-capitalist tale that unfortunately has virtually no facts correct," he states.

Some moms say the video makes kids feel bad about buying anything at all -- and stresses them out and overwhelms them. Other parents say they're glad the video gives children an honest assessment of the trouble our planet is in.

Check out the video for yourself:

......

 

OK, I must admit that I have not watched or listened to Glenn Beck since last year. I don't really watch mutch TV at all since cutting my satellite subscription. Annie Leonard's video "The Story of Stuff" simply presents the facts and is a masterpiece IMHO. Now for Beck to call this video "anti-capitalist" is offbase. Is he saying that the ills of our economic/political system should be kept hush,hush and swept under the rug? And he says the video has "no facts correct." I'd like for Glenn Beck to tell us exactly what facts in the video were presented incorrectly. Beck is like most people in this country -- in deep denial and mesmerized by the myth of our consumer culture which decouples the human economy from the only real world we have - planet Earth. The real world isn't the corporate balance sheet or the 18 Hole Round of Golf. It's this blue sphere we live on and depend on for our survival.

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