The College Conspiracy

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EndGamePlayer's picture
EndGamePlayer
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The College Conspiracy

For all the years of education - no one is taught to think! Has college become a scam? a bubble? Are we brainwashing our own children?

The College Conspiracy

Gardening on then . . .

EGP

patrickhenry's picture
patrickhenry
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From the cliched business

From the cliched business grad flipping burgers, to the 500 anthropology grads with $40k in student loans and one job opening, the ancedotal evidence that college is often not the best choice, at least at the time, is abundant.

College professors live by the axiom Publish or Perish.  Never mind the publishing takes 3-5 years after the research was completed, often making it obsolete even before the journal is released. And the "best" professors research and publish, leaving "others" to teach.

The teaching chasm between practical business needs for American global success and actual class curriculum at universities has never been so vast. The ivory tower was never so disconnected as it is now.

As someone with a Master's degree, I often advise high schoolers that don't have passion for a profession yet, to either  1) Work  2) Work and take night classes  3) travel abroad  4) study something at local community college VERY practical like  auto mechanics

 

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Dagny
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The College Conspiracy, continued

I have a BFA, an MA in counseling and my CPA and not one of those credentials will be useful in a few years.  The most practical thing I learned in college, oddly, happened during my undergrad years at Philadelphia College of Art, where I learned to solder, mix plaster, and generally be creative without much money.  Learning to deal with crazy people has certainly been a practical skill as well, but I've learned more about that at work than I did in school.

Most colleges today are all about money.  Anyone can get a degree who has enough money for tuition.  We have several completely brainless people on staff where I currently work who have college degrees and even advanced degrees in accounting and finance.  Degrees are meaningless.  I keep wishing someone would figure out a sound curriculum in "common" sense, which is all too uncommon.  Good manners, too.

 

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missy
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My eldest child graduated

My eldest child graduated from high school last night and is heading to college.  She wants to major in art (current love is ceramics) but leaning toward biology, which has always been easy for her.  She has enough money (so far) to go all the way through any advanced degree program with no loan.  Nevertheless, she selected a nearby college that offered a big scholarship and numerous internship/travel opportunities.  I'm still worried it's not a good idea for her to go to college but at this point, there are no jobs either.  So I give my reluctant blessing and just advise her to keep aware of how the economic winds are blowing.

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Full Moon
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  My friends daughter just

  My friends daughter just spent 4 years to get a college degree to house sit adult disabled people for minimum wage . My 16 yo  just got her  CNA  for $450 and started work at $9  PH    she will work this to find out if it is really something she likes and  then take more classes as she is ready .

   I could not talk her out of it . She has a compassionate heart  and will be a caregiver no matter where lead .   

  FM

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Wendy S. Delmater
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licenses and certifications

I took one year of pre-nursing at Michigan State, in 1973-74. But I was not convinced I wanted to be a nurse. So I came home and worked and did not go back to school until I found a field with personnel shortages that I was passionate about. I was in my 40s when I got my degree in safety management, and a license as an NYC Site Safety Manger. My next step will be to get a certification as a CSP (certified safety professional).

Licenses and certifications mean something. You have to have very specific, up-to-date knowledge about very specific and contemporary things to get a licence. Certifications (and some licenses) require continuing education credits to keep them and continuing ed means you stay relevant to your field.

I'd advise any young person or jobless person to get a professional license or certification. The only thing a degree is good for nowadays is to get past the hiring official. It covers his or her a** if you do not work out after they hire you. And that may be changing. In IT, often a license or licenses are all you need.

 

 

 

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Wendy S. Delmater
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Yet another reaons for no student loans.

Swat Teams.

You may want to go make sure your federal government student loans are in good order right now. That’s because, as a Stockton, CA mean just learned, the federal government will bust down your door to get its money. Or even the door of your estranged spouse.

 

 

 

 

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A lot of students feel that

A lot of students feel that college is a waste of time, and the degree they will obtain will not get them a job of their choice. That's not entirely true. Not everyone gets the perfect job the very first time. Everyone has to struggle till they can find their dream job, or at least a job with a decent pay. Students who are disillusioned about college need not lose heart. instead of joining full-time college, they can wait, and work in the meanwhile while they figure out where their interests lie. I know my brother  was really confused before he started college. I think what helped him most was reading college reviews, although it's hard to know which ones are really unbiased and which ones are just a rant. A good idea is to like look up  CollegeAmerica reviews on sites like the Better Business Bureau website and get an unprejudiced view of the college.

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 As a current college

 As a current college student, I'd like to be very frank here. I honestly believe a large portion of the students here, should even be attending post-secondary education for various reasons. The other day I hear people saying, oh I just a 2.5 GPA and I'll be fine with my future job. That is just downright riduculous and absurd, these people I believe are the ones who end up jobless and unemployed after graduating, as they had accomplished nothing besides this 2.5 GPA which is subpar to oh so many others. It drives me absolutely insane to see in my calculus classes, that half of the students don't even show up and then fail the course, thus wasting a whole month of capital in tuition! By no means I claim that these are any of your children, but it has come to my attention that many students have no come to attend college as their own personal goals and passions, but as it has become a norm in this country.

The thing that drives me ever more insane, is that so many of these people who had wasted loaned capital in order to attend post-secondary education and finish with horrible grades end up complaining and whining over these overhanging debts, while they remain jobless or at a low paying job. Did these people not bring it upon themselves? Indeed I would agree that this a major conspiracy against tax payers, who must pay taxes in order to provide these loans and grants to students, only to have them go bankrupt and rob the ones who paid for them!

I am not someone who lived back in the old days where money and capital for post-secondary education was not simply handed out to students who decide to attend college, but this system has indeed become inefficient in allocating capital. The decisions that the government makes in giving some of these students loans and grants is as downright absurd as you giving a 500,000 home mortgage loan to an unemployed man. While I do acknowledge some may enter post-secondary education with an intent to succeed at first and then change their minds, it does not give them the right to take money from the working Americans here.

In conclusion, I would ask any of you hard working tax payers this question. Would you rather loan money to a student who puts forth no effort, parties all day, and  has an expectation to only achieve barely passing grades or would you choose the dilligent student who has a passion for his studies, receives on the job experience, does outside research and work, and has the will and capabilities to succeed? So again my answer to your question is yes this is a conspiracy against you the hard working tax payer and the question of mindless teaching depends on who is teaching the student.

PS: As usual, I hope all of  you will forgive my poor writing and on the side note, too many students take too many easy courses that are overflooded in the job market thus causing structural unemplyoment.

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A word of advice

Xseo93x

 

I like to be supportive when members post, but in this case I also need “to be very frank here” with you. You severely criticize students who are coasting through college and not doing the work to prepare themselves for employment. I respectfully suggest you look in the mirror. You say you are a college student, yet your writing level is 6th grade at best. Your sentences are so garbled the meaning is unclear or even the opposite of what you intend. If you can’t write a coherent sentence then people have to question whether you can even think coherently.

You are clearly aware of the problem. “PS: As usual, I hope all of  you will forgive my poor writing and on the side note, too many students take too many easy courses that are overflooded in the job market thus causing structural unemplyoment.” Are you taking composition and writing classes to overcome this by the time you graduate? I hope so if you expect to find a job utilizing your degree.

You said nothing in your post to indicate that you did not grew up speaking English. I understand it is a hard language to master if you didn’t. However, that does not alter the fact that you are severely deficient. You need to correct this before graduation if you don’t want to be unprepared like the people you criticized.

After giving your post a lot of thought I can construct a theory, based on your screen name and your views about lazy students, that you could be from Asia and are struggling with English. If so, I sympathize with what you have to deal with. But that doesn’t change the fact that you need to improve. Do you see the problem here? If I only know you by your writing my first impression is that you have wasted your education. I hope that is not true.

Wishing you well.

Travlin

 

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 No offense taken Travlin,

 No offense taken Travlin, I realized just how bad the writing was when I reread it today. I am Asian, but I was born in the United States and I do have the capability to write better. I know those spelling and grammatical errors in that little essay were horrible, but I was in a hurry to write as much of my thoughts down before my class started, so those ideas did end up relatively messy and unorganized. I was actually warned about bad writing when I made my first post a while back, which was not very well written either. Although that reply left a little string at first, allow me to rewrite what I had  written before in a more thoughtful and organized manner, perhaps then you could give me a more proper response if you wouldn't mind.

 

 As a student who is currently attending a university, I would like to give my thoughts and opinions on this issue. I believe that many students currently receiving post-secondary education should not be receiving this education for various reasons. Throughout the school year I often hear people talking about their grades, where they believe that they can just party and be fine after graduation as long as they recieve a 2.5 GPA (This is an assumption that no on the job experience is given either). I found the fact that students could think like this to be absurd. Though the problem I would like to state here is not of arrogance, but rather the issue of simple ignorance of the current economy and the magnitude of current job market competition which will spread into further issues given later on.

According to statistics, more than 50% of graduates who've received a bachelor's degree are either unemployed or underemployed. With this data, we can see that competition for jobs among college graduates is tight and competitive. Of course we may also assume that a portion of these graduates had selected a career of which has an abundant supply, but low demand, which will of course create a surplus of that profession. The fact of the matter is that too many students have flooded post-secondary education ever since the creation of evermore affordable tuition from the government.

Whenever I am sitting through my calculus lectures, it angers me to see that half of the students skip class or simply give up if they don't feel like trying anymore. If this education was free, I would not mind these actions, but for the very reason that it is an expensive investment that of which the investors have failed to invest in efficiently is very sad and angering. This failed investor is of course, the government and history does indeed demonstrate that government never invests our tax money in an efficient manner.

Ever since the Johnson administration brought forth government aid for post-secondary education, a bubble began to form which is of course our current student loan bubble. At first glance, this act would most definitely be praised by the common American, but this creation of "affordable education" has in reality brought about the waste of massive amounts of capital. If we were to return to the 50% of graduates who are either unemployed or underemployed, a good portion of that 50% most likely need to make their loan payments. However, with the lack of a high paying job to pay back the loan, it soon becomes unpayable and the graduate will most likely default. Adding onto story of graduates, about 50% of undergraduate students end up dropping out. Although they may have cancelled on their education and future costs, the loan of previous years will continue to follow, that of which will need to be paid back despite the lower or zero income. Through the poor investment choices of the government even more capital is put to waste through inefficient investment which will end up hurting the economy in potential, but lost benefits.

Ever so often I do come across unemployed graduates and do ask about what their major and grades were and they have always turned out to be majors of low demand and high supply. I would argue that under these circumstances, people should not complain that the debt is an overburden, but rather appologize to the countless tax payers who paid for their education and saw that capital go to waste due to a person deciding to join a market that is already overcrowded.

In response to the question of conspiracy, I would say this is a massive conspiracy against tax payers whether they are rich or poor. A key example of mine comes from a personal friend who currently attends college as well. Her family makes relatively high income, but that money is stripped from them through tuition payments and such, thus leaving them to some extent, more impoverished than those who do receive this free capital for education. This is clearly injustice against those who have strived and worked hard to earn their higher wages. Why should someone be punished for being successful and the other receive the free welfare just because of low income? (this is referring to college grants)

One may argue these issues may have been simply avoided if the college lending business had simply been left to private institution. In order to explain we can use an example of an investor and two students. Let us assume that the investor is looking to loan money to a student in return for future payment with a high premium interest rate. Given that one student is a genius who has a high chance of succeeding later on and one who is a slacker and freeloader, (I know that these are extreme cases) who would the investor choose to invest his money in? If the investor has any sense in him he will most definitely select the first choice and of course he will likely collect his money in the future. If we were to investigate even further, one may even argue that the latter student will not even attempt to take a loan seeing such high interest rates. This would of course suggest that the first student has the confidence that he will succeed and is willing to pay a high premium for the loan. Of course some of these lending businesses will fail, but they will be smaller and limited as they do not have access to the massive capital that government does and are spending their own hard earned money. One may ask about the possibility that these lending businesses will charge excessive interest rates, but that will not happen as competition in the market will drive interest rates down. Of course this a theory, but a theory of which contains much historical support.

In conclusion, this is indeed a grand conspiracy against you, the hard working tax payer (yes I am employed) and a bubble that is doomed to pop if irresponsible lending by the government is not controlled or supressed. As for the question about being taught to think, I would argue that there are a few people out who do teach how to think. An example would be my own professor in economics, who has openned my eyes to this grand miracle along with the coming crisis, were it not for him, I honestly would not be any better than the bad investments listed above. A man who left his position as CEO and his fortune in order to desperately raise students in order to change things and save the future generation from crisis cannot possibly be some greedy scam artist looking to just make money.

 

Also, another note to Travlin. I know that what I had written last time looked like a message full of hatred and such, but it just really saddens me to see my sunday school students who are in 6th grade. The fact that all of this irresponsible spending by the government will destroy the future of my kids really makes me go crazy sometimes and the topic just brought out some of my anger and such, so please forgive me for that. Yes I know I am not some brilliant composition writer, but I wanted to just show you that I don't make those ridiculous errors when I am sitting at home and thinking about my writing

 

xseo93x's picture
xseo93x
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I forgot to write this, but

I forgot to write this, but I am aware about the issue of students not receiving enough on hands experience, but it would add on to the load of writing, so I just left that for some other time.

Travlin's picture
Travlin
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That's much better

 

xseo93x wrote:

 No offense taken Travlin, I realized just how bad the writing was when I reread it today. I am Asian, but I was born in the United States and I do have the capability to write better. I know those spelling and grammatical errors in that little essay were horrible, but I was in a hurry to write as much of my thoughts down before my class started, so those ideas did end up relatively messy and unorganized. I was actually warned about bad writing when I made my first post a while back, which was not very well written either. Although that reply left a little string at first, allow me to rewrite what I had  written before in a more thoughtful and organized manner, perhaps then you could give me a more proper response if you wouldn't mind.

  Also, another note to Travlin. I know that what I had written last time looked like a message full of hatred and such, but it just really saddens me to see my sunday school students who are in 6th grade. The fact that all of this irresponsible spending by the government will destroy the future of my kids really makes me go crazy sometimes and the topic just brought out some of my anger and such, so please forgive me for that. Yes I know I am not some brilliant composition writer, but I wanted to just show you that I don't make those ridiculous errors when I am sitting at home and thinking about my writing

 

Xseo

I’m glad to know you can write better than your previous post, and that you took my message in the spirit in which it was offered. I didn’t think you hated the students you criticized. The frustration and anger you expressed about students wasting their potential, and the tax payers’ dollars, were reasonable. As a separate issue, your example of your 6th grade students strikes home with me. They deserve a better future than we are handing them.

Writing is not easy for most people, but I can offer some simple tips that will help anyone.

* Use short sentences that clearly express one thought.   Add more short sentences until your point is made. Don’t string a lot of  half formed thoughts together in a long rambling jumble.

* Use as few words, and sentences, as possible while still expressing your meaning.  If it doesn’t have to be there leave it out.

* Multiple short paragraphs make your writing clearer and easier to read.

* Read twice, post once. It is best to let a serious message sit for a few hours, or overnight, then review it with a fresh perspective.

So that’s enough about writing. Now we can get back to the main topic of this thread. 

Travlin

 

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