The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

92 posts / 0 new
Last post
Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

This is a link to a site called

'Cynicus Economicus'

which I feel is a must read, In Its Entirety.

Monday, 19th January 2009

http://cynicuseconomicus.blogspot.com/2009/01/climax-of-fall-is-now-in-view.html

 

I am writing this post with a profound sense of unreality nagging at me. When I first wrote about the UK economy (you may want to read here for a summary of where I started), I was profoundly worried, and could see that we were heading towards a massive economic shock. A little while later the realisation that the UK was effectively bankrupt struck me, followed by the realisation that the US was in the same position.

When I first started writing, I could see no way of avoiding crisis, but could at least see a way to minimise the crisis, and plant the seeds for a future recovery. As the crisis has progressed, I have been horrified at the bank bailouts, more recently horrified at the jump into quasi-Keynesian policy, and even more horrified that quantitative easing has been proposed to finance this lunacy. Such actions, as I have argued over many posts, will serve only to magnify the scale of the economic destruction to levels that I had never imagined were possible. The cure to the disease has been to take a hefty dose of poison.

In the newspapers we can read endless reports about the 'financial crisis', which is of itself a misnomer. This is not a financial crisis, but an economic crisis, of which the banking system failures are just one symptom. Throughout this blog I have kept in mind very simple principles and applied them to the state of the world economy. I realised that the key to all of the problems is that the world had entered a period of hyper-competition. The world had changed, and countries like the UK and US complacently stood still, resting on their laurels, with no real attempt to adapt to the changes in the world.

Instead of adaptation, instead of confronting change, we have seen ever greater attempts to bury the reality that underlies this crisis. The reality is that many of the countries in the West, and I refer in particular to the US and UK, are unfit for the competition. Putting it in both simple and accurate terms - we do not produce enough value of goods and services to support our current lifestyles.

This is not a new situation, but has been developing for a long, long time. All that has happened is that the reality of the situation has been obscured from us through a series of bubbles. The dotcom bubble, the telecoms bubble, the stock market bubble, the housing bubble and the credit bubble. One after another they have come, but the greatest bubble of all will be the final bubble to burst - and it will explode our complacency.

This final bubble is the currency bubble. In the case of the £GB it has been rapidly deflating, but is now set to burst. In the case of the $US, once it starts to deflate, it will pop violently.

Of all the factors that have hid our underlying economic fragility, the currency bubble is probably the most significant. In crude terms, those who have been selling all the commodities, goods and services to us have been lending us the money to buy their output. As a result, they have amassed huge amounts of our currencies, and are now starting to realise that the paper they exchanged for goods has no meaningful underlying value.

Why did it all last as long? Part of the reason is that there was an ongoing demand for the paper, so that it could be used to lend back to us. Part of it was just a false belief in the value of the paper, an illusion.

The illusion was like a magician who, with the clever use of mirrors, manages to hide an elephant on the stage. The elephant that has been hidden is that we just can not compete, do not produce enough of value. In the meantime, the rest of the world looked on in wonder at what appeared to be the miracle of our wealthy economies. We seemed to just keep growing, becoming ever more wealthy, ever more indulged in the luxury of comfortable lives. It all seemed to be inevitable, and it was believed by many that this was our natural state.

This grand illusion meant that the rest of the world looked on in wonder at our wealth and power, and continued to take our worthless paper. In fact, the demand for the paper seemed to grow endlessly, and as the demand increased, so did the issuance of paper from our governments. The result is that more and more of this useless paper has been amassing in the treasuries of our creditors, such that there are now mountains of it.

And here comes the problem. What happens when someone tries to use the paper to buy something from us?

It is here that the light finally shines on the illusion, and reveals the mirrors that hid the elephant from sight. It is at this point in time that the realisation occurs to our creditor that we just do not produce enough for the paper to be exchanged for. To mix metaphors, they can come to the shop, but there is very little on the shelves that they want to buy. Sure, they can rummage around and find a few useful items here and there, but they will be left with a mass of paper still stuffed in their pockets, wondering how it might be used.

The truth is; the paper can not find a use, and it is therefore without value.

When I first started writing on the economic crisis, I saw a window of opportunity. If we could just grasp the reality that we were not competing, that we were not producing enough goods and service to support our lifestyles, we could start to turn the situation around. It was a question of us popping the bubble of our own illusions and seeing the result of our own conjuring. The trouble was that, if we saw the nature of our own conjuring, we would have to face the reality that there was, and is, no magic. It would mean that we would have to accept that all that we had come to expect was no longer going to be delivered. We were much poorer than we imagined. It would mean that we would have to accept reform, changes to our economy that would have made our lives that much less comfortable.

Such a reform might have persuaded our creditors that it might be worth hanging on to our paper. The paper might not have much use now, not much value at this moment in time, but they could at least see the potential for value in the future. It was an opportunity to save ourselves, an opportunity to buy time.

Instead of this, the answer of both the UK and US governments has been to seek to maintain the illusion, even as the lights shining on the stage are revealing the mirrors. The lights are brightening and are revealing mirrors everywhere, whether in the bailout of Citibank, the collapse of the financial position of RBS, the rising unemployment, the contraction in what remains of our manufacturing, the collapsing retail and service industries. In amongst all of this collapse, the relentless march of imports continues as a bright light upon our inadequacies.

Above all, the desperate measures of governments shine the brightest light of all. In their increasingly frantic attempts to rescue the illusion, they just serve to highlight to all the nature of the illusion itself. The printing of more paper is like trying to sneak another mirror onto a stage on which the lights are already shining - the illusion is already revealed.

Bit by bit, we are now seeing the result of the loss of belief. The rich are starting to move their money into gold. They are not even holding gold on paper, but holding gold as 'stuff' that can be physically held in their hands. China, one of our former creditors, has pointed that it will direct its sovereign wealth towards emerging markets. Even if we take an example of news today, we can see that the Abu Dhabi sovereign wealth fund are pulling out of a major infrastructure project in the UK:

“The economics of this project should be revisited,” Ziad Tassabehji, the director of innovation and investments for Masdar, said at a renewable energy conference in Abu Dhabi. “We are working with our partners to study the feasibility of the project.”

The economics of the project should be revisited. In that telling phrase, we can see the end. All across the world, as I predicted would happen, our creditors are 'revisiting the economics' and they want no more of our paper.

It is at this point that the bubble starts to burst. The demand for the paper was what maintained the value of the paper. When the demand disappears, the paper becomes useless, as the question arises as to what that paper might be used for. There are already mountains of it in circulation, and nobody wants any more. At just this moment in time, the governments are issuing ever more paper.....

So now we come to the crunch. We have been living on the labour of others by exchanging useless paper for goods and services. What are we going to use for those imports now? If nobody want to exchange their goods and services for our paper, what can we do? It is here that we come to the real problem.

Not only do we have too little to exchange for those goods and services, there is also a huge stock of paper in relation to the goods and services available for exchange. As those that hold the paper realise that the paper has little value, they will seek to exchange the paper as quickly as possible, before the illusion is fully revealed. They will try to exchange the paper whilst is still appears to have real value.

The trouble is that, as soon as one creditor starts everybody else will follow in a mad rush to unload the paper. More and more of the paper will be dumped ever more quickly into the market, and the faster it is dumped, the lower the value of the paper will fall. In this situation there will be ever more paper made available to chase a limited supply of goods and services.

Welcome to currency collapse and hyper-inflation.

As the currencies collapse, the goods and services that are imported will shoot up in price. These are the goods and services which we have been exchanging for worthless paper - goods and services that we have been obtaining for very little in return. It is this massive importation of the effectively subsidised labour of others that will suddenly disappear. We will be left, in practical terms, with the fruits of our own labour and will find how little fruit that labour produces.

All the while this is happening, governments will fall into crisis, and be faced with a situation spiralling relentlessly down. Their revenues will be collapsing, their expenditures escalating, but with no overseas credit available to rescue them from crisis. All the while the bills need to be paid. The military, the police, the health services, the unemployment benefits, the wages of the civil servants, the pensions and so it goes on. How will they pay for all of these people, all of these services?

For years they have been paying for all of this with borrowing. Even in the 'good times' they could not afford to pay the costs of government. In a situation of greater expenses, less revenue, and the clamour for ever more bailouts, how can they possibly pay for all of this?

The answer is the printing press. They will have no choice but to print money, and another accelerator of hyper-inflation will kick in.

I think that the path is now set, and there is no climbing off the path. All that remains now is the question of the 'push', of what will start this collapse. In an article here, Eric deCarbonnel thinks that China will precipitate the crash. I hesitate to summarise the article, which offers a sophisticated and plausible case. However, my scenario (and it is no more than that) is as follows:

One possibility is that Ireland may be the first to fall, as they are in deep, deep trouble. There is already one prominent commentator talking of default on debt, and the prospect of a rash of defaults across Southern Europe. Although this is just one commentator, there are solid reasons for why Ireland is so vulnerable, in particular a very nasty variant of the credit bubble. Alternatively, confidence in the UK economy is leeching away at an accelerating pace. The EU commissioner's report on the UK is just one of increasingly pessimistic forecasts for the prospects of the UK. On top of this, the UK government continues to stretch itself ever thinner, seeks to prop up ever larger sections of the economy, and all to no avail. All the time that is going on, the words risk will be flashing in the minds of the UK's creditors.

I have had one commentator suggest that the US will be the first to fall, and the commentator presents a convincing argument. However, I would argue that the illusion of the US is the most deeply ingrained, and therefore the hardest to shatter. There is even the factor of a 'good will' and optimism bounce of Barack Obama's new presidency as a potential pause for breath. What I am saying is that the economic fundamentals are only part of the equation, as we are also dealing in belief.

From my point of view, it will be the collapse of the UK economy that will be needed to shatter the belief in the US economy, and will be the final impetus to push the $US over the edge. Such a collapse might even see a brief run to safety into the $US, before the realisation hits that it is a run into danger.

However, this is just thinking of orders of collapse, and such scenarios are about emotional reaction and belief, as much as they are about economics. Such reactions are difficult to predict, and there is always the influence of events, such as badly worded official statement or any other small trigger. In the current situation, small events have potential for major outcomes.

Whatever the final push, I now believe that we are on the edge and, as such, I will brave a timescale. I would now say with considerable confidence that we are within three months of the plunge. By plunge, I mean the serious collapse in either the $US or the £GB, either of which will shortly after precipitate the collapse of the other. I am not tempted to say how far they will fall, but it will be a dramatic fall over a period of about two weeks, sufficient that we will all look on in complete shock. I am not talking about 10% but tens of percent. Once the sell-off starts, I am not sure where it will stop.

I have always been a 'doomster', and taken a negative view on the prospects for anything but deep, deep crisis. To date, the events that have occurred have largely agreed with such a pessimistic outlook. In this case I sincerely hope that I am wrong, and that I will be eating these words in three months time. My worry is that this will not be the case.....

 

 

WhoKnew's picture
WhoKnew
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 11 2008
Posts: 41
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

I hate to say it but he or she is just stating the obvious, there is nothing new in what is written. Most here have known the system is in terrible shape.A month from now when the pound (By the way the pound goes way before the dollar) collapses the writer will be saying, "See I told you so".

 Try and focus more on protecting your assets and family from what is coming rather than listening to prophets of the obvious.

fredbrent's picture
fredbrent
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 7 2008
Posts: 19
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Woah! Your comments create a certain, not so pleasant  feeling in the pit of my stomach. Unfortunately, I believe you are on target.  I am hopeing the three month estimate is too severe.  I would at least like to get a good garden in by then, and just a bit more gold bullion rounded up. I like the sound of 6-9 months a bit better. Thanks for the post. 

Fredbrent

Nichoman's picture
Nichoman
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 1 2008
Posts: 422
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Thanks for posting this.  I've been wrestling with many similar thoughts the past month this article outlines.

The past several months as this crisis continues to evolve has been a steep learning experience.  With the valued wisdom and insight from Chris Martenson and numerous other sources, the end in some form of debacle seems assured.

Data and proper analysis is critical to any issue, especially the currency collapse outlined above.  In the past 3 to 6 months, a ubiquitous picture of dissolution (in many cases accelerating) of retail, trade, financial, economic information is almost daily released.  This non-linearity shares the same principles and impacts and/or consequences of exponential growth presented in the Crash Course.

Findings from my analysis lead to two points.

1.)  I believe the next 3-6 weeks will define the rapidity and magnitude of this impending rout.  If these rates of dissolution continue or accelerate as has unfolded in the past several months, I find a currency collapse similar to his article reasonable within 3 to 6 months.  This is an estimate...but the inequities of production and revenue versus spending become so extreme it leads me to no other conclusion.

2.)  If this is the case, my concern of multiple layers of government failures, unprecedented social unreast and some cases, panic is self evident.  What happens in California...UK...Ireland and many other European countries will be instructive to this point. 

Intuitively, I sense time is running short. Especially continued decisions promoting an unsustainable status quo and irresponsible actions.

What are others opinions and conclusions?

 

Nichoman 

 

   

MarkM's picture
MarkM
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 837
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Even though Iceland is obviously different than the US, I look to them as an example of what may transpire here.  I agree that Ireland and the UK are the ones to watch.  I may be a "doomster" as well, I just don't see a way clear of this situation.

britinbe's picture
britinbe
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 381
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

I think all these comments are spot on. However, not many people in  the street are aware of the full ramifications!!

Britinbe

lpowell23's picture
lpowell23
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 17 2008
Posts: 27
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

I was hoping that I'd have at least a year to prepare.   However, everyday that passes by seems to reconfirm what has been stated in the blog.   Unfortunately, I'm a late comer to all of this, and have been struggling psychologically with the implications and ramifications of a collapse.   I think it's worse for me because I know what's coming, but am painfully unprepared due to limited income and my financial circumstances.    Those around me have really not been paying attention despite my attempts to explain this.   I work for a state government agency, and we've only recently started to be affected.   A directive was given last week to stop all travel, external conferences, and to cut 10% from departmental budgets.

I feel like a lone wolf here.  

Any words of advice, support, etc... would be appreciated.  Cry

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Hi Ipowell23,

I took some time in deciding to post this onto the Crash Course, not because there aren't other similar pieces that you can find, but because I'm responsible for it, and in my own way feel as much the 'lone wolf' as you do. I gained a great deal of strength from an article that Chris martenson posted on the 8th of October last year. I hope this will help you in some way.

http://www.peakprosperity.com/martensonreport/six-stages-awareness

Take Care,

Paul

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Vanityfox451 wrote:
Instead of adaptation, instead of confronting change, we have seen ever reater attempts to bury the reality that underlies this crisis. The reality is that many of the countries in the West, and I refer in particular to the US and UK, are unfit for the competition. Putting it in both simple and accurate terms - we do not produce enough value of goods and services to support our current lifestyles. This is not a new situation, but has been developing for a long, long time. All that has happened is that the reality of the situation has been obscured from us through a series of bubbles. The dotcom bubble, the telecoms bubble, the stock market bubble, the housing bubble and the credit bubble. One after another they have come, but the greatest bubble of all will be the final bubble to burst - and it will explode our complacency.

 

I have a great deal of empathy for you as we, in the US, are following close behind in an apocalyptic economic collapse. In many respects, all we can do is to prepare.

I disagree with what you said above. We may compete and we may prosper if we get rid of the huge parasitic load that is the corrupt central banking scheme. Both of our nations had seen huge growth, in profit and volume, from the financial sector while everything else was shrinking. In the US for example, the financial sector was making around 17% while manufacturing was reduced to 5%. 

Our economies are driven by ever increasing debt - it cannot stop or even slow down, like a dog chasing it's tail. Get rid of the exploitative central banks, which by the way also control the politicians, and we will realize prosperity and the means to solve our other problems. 

Hang in there, we will lose some more battles, but if we get rid of the central bankers, we will win the war.

 

 

cedar's picture
cedar
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 7 2008
Posts: 96
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

lpowell23,

I empathize with how you are feeling.

 I have spent the last 2 years getting educated on the issues addressed by the Crash Course. I have found it a fascinating social experiment observing how few of my family and friends want to discuss or understand the issues. They all prefer to discuss the emotional hope offered by a personality like Obama rather than the underlying facts and forces.

This tells me there must be many opportunities for those of us in the know. And it tells me that no meaningful change will happen without a crisis. And it tells me the masses will be surprised and very angry when it happens.

 Rob

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Hi DrKrby,

I'm sorry, but I'm not the author, just the messenger. However, I wish what you've said were a possibility. Time, as they say, will tell.

Take Care,

Paul 

WendyT's picture
WendyT
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 26 2008
Posts: 39
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Hi lpowell23,

 I feel for you.  I remember the shock and feeling of overwhelm I felt when I first watched the film, "The End of Suburbia," about Peak Oil.  That was 3 years ago.  It galvanized me into educating myself and others about the end of cheap oil & gas.  And in so doing, I also began to research what was going on behind the scenes in the world of money.  Which is how I found Chris Martenson and the Crash Course. 

It wasn't an easy path; full of emotional intensity at times, as I grappled alternately with fear, outrage, a sense of powerlessness and despair.  But I intuitively knew that probably the very best thing I could do for myself was to seek community; find people who were awake to the realities I'd discovered; people who, like me, were trying to figure out how to respond, what to do. 

I found it pretty much impossible to bring my family "on board." They were, and are, too much in denial, too afraid to face the truth and take action.  So I gave up on that route, and sought to find friends elsewhere with whom to share about all this stuff.  Luckily I did find some.  I found them by going to events like film screenings, talks, etc., that I knew would draw audiences similar to myself.  I stayed after the film or talk for the question & answer or discussion period, asked people for their contact info, gave mine, followed up, met for a cup of coffee or breakfast, kept in touch by email, a phone call each week or so. I found some through websites, blogs.  I hosted or co-hosted film screenings of educational movies at libraries and in church basements, volunteered for groups that were focussed on related issues.  I didn't do all of this at once. Some of it I did in years prior to seeing "The End of Suburbia."  Sometimes I didn't do anything about it for months at a time, because I just felt exhausted emotionally by it all.

 I found though that even having one person that I could talk with regularly about what was going on in the world that disturbed me, what I was learning that freaked me out, was a big help. And I found that with that one person, or several, we gave (and give) each other strength, humor, empathy, courage and more that helps enormously. This stuff is too big to handle alone. Which is why so many people post on this site and engage in community through doing so, drawing sustenance from the companionship of shared experience, shared knowledge, shared awareness.

I definitely concurr with the person who suggested you read Chris Martenson's free report on the Six Stages of Awareness. Also, if you haven't yet, do read his post entitled something like, What To Do Now, posted early in 2009 I think.

 There's another website you could explore, created by a friend of mine who's a psychologist.  It's www.peakoilblues.com    She (Kathy) is very empathetic, and supportive of those who are new to this subject. I think you'll probably find some posts there from others like yourself.

I also think that you're sure to get some good suggestions from readers of this site. If you start your own discussion thread by creating a new post describing your situation, you're likely to draw readers who might not otherwise read your post here.

I know the sense of urgency is heightened by this discussion thread. Don't panic. We're all in this together. There will be helping hands for you.

Wendy 

 

 

 

TimesAwasting's picture
TimesAwasting
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 13 2008
Posts: 100
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

I agree that the fall is now in view, impending. The best we can do is prepare, and ride out the storm, as best we can!

But I also advise vigilance. We The People must be ready to re-establish a new form of government (one, I humbly suggest, based on our Constitution).

The reason for my Call of Caution is based on my belief that our current financial/ economic crisis has been purposely created by the Banking Cartel. Yes, you read that correctly. We're heading for a crash "By Design".

Logic dictates this as the only sane explanation... conclusion.

Consider that which seems so blatantly obvious to most of us here... that you cannot possibly solve a debt/ credit crisis by going further into debt. It is a mathematical impossibility.

The Banksters and Political Elite are not stupid people. They know and understand we are heading for disaster. Yet, they continue to go about their merry bailout bonanza. Even in spite of Our collective wishes to the contrary.

See if you can follow this conundrum...

The Brainiacs in DC say our credit markets are locked up... we must having banks lending once again... So in order to do that, the gov't will borrow (more) money and give (even more of) it to banks, who used the first cache of cash to bonus themselves, buy up competitors and (supposedly) improve their balance sheets, but did no lending. But this go-round, it'll be different! Oh, by the way, the gov't and co-conspiring Banking Cartel has given US, the tax payers the bill... with interest!

So now the second round of funding will go forth. Perhaps some of it will be lent, who knows? But for arguments sake, lets say they do start lending... to? We The People? To Businesses? With the appropriate amount of interest added on for all their tiresome work (don't you know, printing out those boiler-plate documents is exhausting work!).

But wait a minute. Aren't the people and businesses who borrow these funds the same tax payers who are already indebted on that same money originally? Aren't we actually paying double the interest... ON THE SAME MONEY?

How in the HELL does that makes any sense whatsoever? It is almost as if they are trying to push us over the cliff...

What if they actually, really are???

That is really the only logical explanation for all this foolishness. Am I wrong???   Some one, please, tell me what else makes more sense?

Why? That's the real question.

Why are the Banksters pushing us to a crash? Wish I had the answer. But I do know, it's a world wide epidemic.

I can only surmise that they prefer a "docile" world that they can better control and pillage. It appears to me that the banking cartel is instigating this crisis to ingratiate us to the government. Pushing US to need the gov"t for our very survival.

That is why I urge vigilance. We must pay attention. Hopefully, they have pushed things too far; and hopfully, the opportunity will arise for US to wrest the power from their clutches.

That... or maybe I'm just nuts. I did read Jekyll Island though.

 

Brainless's picture
Brainless
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 9 2008
Posts: 150
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

I don't think it was by design. If the concept of central banking is only a few hundred years i suspect they thought to run this system for thousands of years. I think the industrial revolution and other speeding up of manufactoring and with that a large middleclass with rising consumerism was unforeseen.

Blowing up a system that makes massive amounts of profit does not seem likely.

Solving it would mean to kill the system, but the ones owning the system will never do that. Instead saving it and getting some more mileage out of it seems what is happening. Maybe it works for a while, but end it will.

 

cedar's picture
cedar
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 7 2008
Posts: 96
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

I'm afraid I do not agree with TimesAwasting.

The problem is not our leaders or our bankers. The problem is us.

Here in Canada we had several good choices for leaders that understood the issues but we rejected them in favor of the status quo.

In the U.S. you had a wonderful choice in Ron Paul and rejected him.

We vote for people that promise growth and they have done their best to deliver but given the physical constraints of the world this meant our growth came at the expense of living beyond our means.

Now we must pay the price for our collective idiocy.

MarkM's picture
MarkM
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 837
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

I don't know if I feel more that this is planned or accidental.  I agree that we were presented with a man, I felt, could lead us in a new direction.  We rejected him.

It seems as though many today want the burden of change to be borne by "someone else" so that they do not feel the discomfort of what needs to be.  Is this just America, or is Western man?  There is, seemingly, a growing desire of something for nothing.  Too many groups demand that something be done for them rather than doing for themselves and just getting on with the business of living. 

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

History will show Ron Paul in a more favorable light than did the pre-election propaganda.

mainecooncat's picture
mainecooncat
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 7 2008
Posts: 488
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View
Aaron Moyer wrote:

History will show Ron Paul in a more favorable light than did the pre-election propaganda.

That's for sure. It made me sick the way the sleazy Romney, Guiliani and the rest of the GOP candidate-cast basically nakedly snickered and derided Paul for everything he said during the debates. Throw in the dishonest Chris Wallace putting words in Paul's mouth regarding how he would handle terrorism, and I can only imagine historians in a hundred years' time re-watching these debates with mouths agape and head's shaking.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Maine,

You aren't kidding.
There were times where I was so angry, I wanted to punch those fake teeth out of Guiliani's head.

Mockery is the lowest form of humor, and watching our "elected officials" act like schoolyard bullies just reinforced the notion that our society has truly degenerated into a culture of incipid, illogical crybabies.

Rep. Paul made the "called shot" over and over again on the economy; gave a logical and principled arguement and rallied a lot of intelligent people behind him.

The unfortunate truth is simply that the uninformed heavily outnumber the thinking people in our nation.

Damnthematrix's picture
Damnthematrix
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 3998
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View
cedar wrote:

I'm afraid I do not agree with TimesAwasting.

The problem is not our leaders or our bankers. The problem is us.

Here in Canada we had several good choices for leaders that understood the issues but we rejected them in favor of the status quo.

In the U.S. you had a wonderful choice in Ron Paul and rejected him.

We vote for people that promise growth and they have done their best to deliver but given the physical constraints of the world this meant our growth came at the expense of living beyond our means.

Now we must pay the price for our collective idiocy.

Yes, we're all at fault.  Even we partook in this folly until I came to my senses ten years ago!  But I wouldn't let the banksters off the hook...  they sold us the pup, they and the advertising industry (in which I used to work) and the governments, and the multinationals, all playing on our wishing and wanting for ever more.

As I've now said many many times on this site, we need a revolution.  The Matrix must be slain....  We need a movement, which I believe could be started on the internet, which convinces EVERYBODY (and it would initially work with maybe 50% of the populace) to stop paying off all loans, and stop paying taxes.

WE outnumber THEM many thousands to one, THEY are at our mercy, only WE can keep them filthy rich....

This movement probably won't happen until TSHTF, because like someone else said, too many as yet do not understand or do not want to know......  like my stupid brother in law who bough his family a 60 inch plasma screen for Xmas.  I doubt he paid cash for it.

Mike 

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3125
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Don't wish to intrude on a pity party, but suppose, just suppose the fed, treasury, Bush admin and Obama admin have it right.  Throwing tarp money at the financial institutions the first time did seem to stabilize them, at least for the short term.  According to Geitner today, they are going to throw a whole bunch money more at them, presumably to make them solvent enough they will feel like lending again.  If that happens, and the people decide its ok to borrow, maybe the merry-go-round will start going around again and they will have successfully prevented an immediate crash.  That might give them time to really go about deleveraging in a serious way.  Of course it will be uncomfortable, but maybe not a crash.

Maybe just wishful thinking.  I'm not really relishing a crash scenario, no matter how prepared I am.

MarkM's picture
MarkM
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 22 2008
Posts: 837
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Aaron,

You mentioned anger, I have never felt anger like I felt during the campaign watching the scenes you describe.  I am not over it.  It is one thing to have a passionate disagreement with another man.  It is something else entirely to ridicule someone for the sake of entertainment.  You are right.  The other candidates, to a man, looked like junior high boys with their sneers and smirks and illogical remarks.  It is telling to think that they were the best the "conservative" party could put forth.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

MarkM,

The Neo-Cons are not the party of conservatives.

I agree with you, and I hate to admit it, but I was stricken with such a profound feeling of helplessness that I still haven't "regrouped" politically. Perhaps I've given up on politics in favor of fellowship with people. Perhaps that's why I'm here.

The best way we can "show" those bastards is to organize and act locally, and with autonomy.
We have to take control back from their political machine, and their influence will strengthen as people come to rely on the government, and deteriorate as they realize its ineptitude.

Thanks for the words - it's nice to hear that someone else was stung by that BS.
Cheers!

PS - I'd like to share this. Some may enjoy it, some may not, but music eases life's discomforts.

cedar's picture
cedar
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 7 2008
Posts: 96
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

There is some truth that the masses can be manipulated. A good starting point for education is the documentary series by Adam Curtis titled "Century of the Self". You can find it on many torrent sites.

gregroberts's picture
gregroberts
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 6 2008
Posts: 1024
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Aaron,

Ron Paul does pretty well in these two videos,

Greg

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3125
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Aaron

Thanks for the guitar video.  It's beautiful.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Doug,

I'm glad you enjoyed it!

The performer, JPCart has several more videos if you search his profile. He specialises in very dramatic Russian music, much of it on a 7-string.

To my mind, this is the kind of cultural beauty that will be forgotten as history looks back on our "time".
This music is the contrast and counterpoint of the assmebled, souless junk being thrown out by big record labels.

Greg,

Ron's problem was never holding his own, he's a great speaker and a very intelligent man. I love watching him hold Bernake to the fire - but the media smears and condescention from the other fore-runners marginalized his character to the masses. I've told people I'm a Ron Paul supporter, and literally heard them say "Ew".

"Why?" I ask. "Do you know what he stands for?"
Blank stares. Of course they don't. They're in love with the status quo rockstars on either side of the party lines. It's a popularity contest, not a competition to be the "best" elected representitive.

Cheers!

Aaron

Vanityfox451's picture
Vanityfox451
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 28 2008
Posts: 1636
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Aaron,

I thought I'd add this and hope you agree with me when I say that, I hope the next generation on the way in are going to get back to live acoustics and talent without the easy supply of electricity. I found this young guy a while ago and keep up with every new piece he performs :-

 

...kind of back on subject though, Ron Paul should be sitting with his feet up in the White House right now with everything that was said by him. I think this film really answers the question as to why!!! Follow the money...

 

Take Care,

Paul

Doug's picture
Doug
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 1 2008
Posts: 3125
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Aaron

Quote:

To my mind, this is the kind of cultural beauty that will be forgotten as history looks back on our "time".
This music is the contrast and counterpoint of the assmebled, souless junk being thrown out by big record labels.

I don't really agree.  I'm always amazed at the variety and quality of music out there.  Of course, I have some musician friends who turn me onto new music all the time.  And, I suppose, we may not have all the same tastes.

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

Paul,

Utterly amazing.
Great music - beautiful, and truly prodigious talent. I enjoyed it greatly.

Doug, I hope you're right!  

Cheers!

Rosemary Sims's picture
Rosemary Sims
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 2 2008
Posts: 81
Re: The Climax Of The Fall Is Now In View

"They all prefer to discuss the emotional hope offered by a personality like Obama rather than the underlying facts and forces."

Er, might I suggest that the economy and its state is not all that concerns the people of the US and the world, however ignorant you may consider those people.  The world and the lives of real people are really, really and truly bigger than Wall Street.  Please, there was a time when economy did not rule the lives of most human beings and in the real world, it still doesn't.  You make assumptions about what people want in their lives.  They may wish to have a life fulfilled by things other than financial success or the latest technological gizmo, or heaven forbid, they may  not even care about being "affluent".  And there are many who don't in the monetary sense, if you care to take a look at that.  Can you even imagine that there are those who choose not to own tv's? 

By your statement, you suggest that the US tribe (more multifaceted than you obviously have imagined) does not need a leader (by definition an emotional assignation).  I suggest that they do, and whether the priviledged world of the USA crashes or not, or we are prepared for that or not, we do need a national leader, don't we?  I mean, if we wish to remain a unity of states.  It is of course our ongoing national dilemma - can we find someone who can lead such a diverse nation?  I believe we have found as close as we can to that ideal, and I personally haven't deigned to listen to the voice of another US president since Nixon.  We need a leader at this despicable time in our history, and if you can find another who can appeal to all Americans, not just the financial types, please post it here. It would help if he or she were as transparent as Obama.  It is the first time in almost 40 years I have sought out the names of a president's cabinet and EO staff to find out what they plan to do, and so I hope you will excuse my short temper.  I did listen to Ron Paul and probably would have voted for him (if I still voted) except that he thought (or projected) that the world revolves around money.

The steps Obama is taking are certainly not what the "people in the know" here would take but I doubt that we can deny that they are the only ones he can take, as has been mentioned here often enough.  So yes, I (who has not done so before) will talk about the "emotional hope offered by a personality like Obama" rather than the "underlying facts and forces". He has superb intelligence and excellent education and enormous charisma; he has built a presidential team beyond comparison in our lifetimes, and taken extraordinarily swift action.  Hey, he has even begun to warn the nation of what is to come economically.  To call him a "personality" is...I will refrain.  True leadership entails drawing the tribe to you like a magnet, educating them ("things will become much worse"), demonstrating intregity (the ethics EO), coming up with  plausible future scenerios ("take care of each other in bad times") and restructuring goverment to be more relevent.  We have I think the best chance we have ever had to make t hings better after the inevitable crash.

Rosemary

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments