Better Investment Than Gold

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Gman's picture
Gman
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Better Investment Than Gold

Gold seems to be on everyone's mind as a safe way to protect your money. While I personally own some gold coins, I am not adding anymore to my stores. Here are the reasons why:

1. Not enough bang for the buck. How much do I think it will appreciate? $2,000/oz...$3,000/oz... I think I can get a better return with alternatives, which I will explain below.

2. You can't buy a weeks worth of groceries with a Gold Eeagle. What are you going to do, cut it up into pieces? Even 10th ounce coins could be worth well over $200 a piece.

3. I don't trust the government. They confiscated gold in the past, that means there is a probability they will do it in the future. Old silver dollars would be a better option.

Now on to the better investment than gold. My frame of reference to hard times comes from my parents and grandparents. They lived through the depression and told many a story as I was growing up. My mom's side of the family were farmers in Iowa. My dad lived in a small farmimg community of 1,500 people. 

My take on the situation was that they lived in times of scarcity. Full-time jobs were scarce, you were more likely to find work once in awhile. Things you needed for daily life were scarce, it was a matter of scraping by. People that had things to barter or trade were perhaps the best off.

We are now in a time where deflation is ruling. That means that people with money will find terrific bargains on all matter of goods. My plan is to take advantage of this by purchasing items that will be of future value as items of barter or trade.

Let me give you some examples of a few things that you can buy for a few dollars, that will be worth 10 to 20 times the price you paid for them. (A much higher rate of return than gold)

You would source the materials from garage/estate sales and thrift stores. Here is a partial list, you can use your imagination for the rest:

Hand Tools

Mason Canning Jars 

Shoes, coats, blankets, blue jeans

Grain Grinders

Oil Lamps

Hardware...wire, nails, welding rods...

Ammunition...even if you don't own a gun.

These are things you can afford to buy today. Buy a few items every week, stockpile them and keep them in good shape. When times get hard, they will be the things that people need. This means they will have value and are great items for barter. 

One last item that I must give credit to my wife. She says that if you had a truckload of toilet paper, you would be rich if TSHTF.

Hope this has been helpful to everyone................Gman

 

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Great post...I'm not one to be a pack-rat, but I have been a stockpiling fool as of late. Finding places for all this stuff is a bit more difficult than for gold coins, however. Every time I go to the store, I buy a few extra items, and store them. I totally agree about the toilet paper...though it can be rather bulky to store. I have also been buying wine and spirits, even though we don't drink much. I figure if there was ever going to be a time when people will want to have a drink, its in our near future.

More power to you,

Jeff 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold
Gman wrote:

One last item that I must give credit to my wife. She says that if you had a truckload of toilet paper, you would be rich if TSHTF.

Gman -

Nice post - thanks for retelling the lessons learned from your family. 

I didn't have a grain grinder on my stockpile list - now I do.

 One question though.  If TSHTF what will we need toilet paper for?????  Won't it be on the fan blades?  Laughing 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

A grain grinder is a must if you plan to store wheat and make bread. But wouldn't it be nice to have 3 or 4 of them that you bought at a few garage sales over time? They will be the same as money in the future, worth many more times than the price you paid for them. IMO they would be worth more than an equivalent amount spent on gold.

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Myler Food Storage Bags for Food Buckets

Would someone please point me to suppliers for the true mylar bags that fit in the 5 and 6 gallon food storage buckets?

Thanks,

Bruce

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Re: Myler Food Storage Bags for Food Buckets
Septimus wrote:

Would someone please point me to suppliers for the true mylar bags that fit in the 5 and 6 gallon food storage buckets?

Thanks,

Bruce

Bruce,

 

I get mine here.  I seal them using an iron over a piece of aluminum angle.

 http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_ZA%20B105_A_name_E_[[ProductNameURL

Mark

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Re: Myler Food Storage Bags for Food Buckets

Thanks Mark!

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Re: Myler Food Storage Bags for Food Buckets

 

Sorbent Systems

They have great technical services.  They supply the US Army with long-term storage supplies.

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

I can vouch for Sorbent Systems also. I was very pleased with my purchases from them.

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Re: Myler Food Storage Bags for Food Buckets
MarkM wrote:

Bruce,

I get mine here.  I seal them using an iron over a piece of aluminum angle.

http://beprepared.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_ZA%20B105_A_name_E_[[ProductNameURL

Mark

 

Mark,

Excuse my ignorance but could you please explain what you mean by "I seal them using an iron over a piece of aluminum angle."

Thanks,

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Sam,

Rather than a "store bought" large bag sealer, I use a regular iron with a Teflon bottom. 

I place the bag in the bucket and fill.  I then lay  a piece of 1/2" aluminum angle ( 90 degree angle ) about two feet long over the edge of the bucket and lay the top of the bag over the aluminum.  Place the iron (on the hottest setting) on top of the bag and make several slow passes back and forth, it will seal the bag shut.  For good measure, I then move the bag so that I can make another seal about an inch above the first.

Don't use your wife's iron.Smile

Hope this helps.

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold
MarkM wrote:

Sam,

Rather than a "store bought" large bag sealer, I use a regular iron with a Teflon bottom. 

I place the bag in the bucket and fill.  I then lay  a piece of 1/2" aluminum angle ( 90 degree angle ) about two feet long over the edge of the bucket and lay the top of the bag over the aluminum.  Place the iron (on the hottest setting) on top of the bag and make several slow passes back and forth, it will seal the bag shut.  For good measure, I then move the bag so that I can make another seal about an inch above the first.

Don't use your wife's iron.Smile

Hope this helps.

 

Ah - the light goes on. Now I understand what you are doing. Thanks for that explanation - especially the caution about using the wife's iron!  Wink

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

 

For you, Sam, and anyone else who's looking to store their own food, here's the best "how to" site I've found out there:

http://www.storefood.com/self/upack/index.htm

 

 Have fun!

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Other places to buy mylar bags and oxygen adsorbers (to place inside the bag - removes oxygen and makes the food last much longer):

 

1. ebay

2. www.waltonfeed.com

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Wow! I'm experiencing such a strong sense of deja vu the room is spinning . . . I saw the exact same post & thread about 9 & a half years ago on a Y2K-related website! If we make it through this one without complete societal collapse, I wonder what we'll all be worried about come 2020 . . . ?

 Personally, though I have no problem believing that the next 20 years will be different than the last 20, I don't see us all turning into farmers & the nation into pockets of self-sustaining Amish-like communities while mass chaos reigns down in the big cities. (Not that there's anything wrong with the Amish way of life, by the way. In fact, their's may very well be a superior system, but that's for another thread.)

Somewhere in the middle lies our most likely future. I may be wrong but I think, hope, & pray I'm not.

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

GR8TFUL,

You don't see the financial institutions collapsing around you right now? You haven't noticed that Lehman Bro's, Merrill Lynch, AIG and WAMU just to name a few of the big boys are dead in the water? You haven't noticed that the stock market has fallen from around 14,000 points to around 6300 as of today's close? You haven't taken note that 1 in 10 Californians are unemployed right now? You don't see the IRAs of retirees as I do every day as a financial planner that have lost upward of 60% of their retirement savings?

A heads in the sand mentallity will not do any of us good right now. This is not Y2K or some possible conspiricy theory; an economic collapse is happening right before our very eyes. Let's not attempt to pretend it's not happening, let's deal with it.  

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold
jerrydon10 wrote:

You don't see the IRAs of retirees as I do every day as a financial planner that have lost upward of 60% of their retirement savings?

A heads in the sand mentallity will not do any of us good right now. This is not Y2K or some possible conspiricy theory; an economic collapse is happening right before our very eyes. Let's not attempt to pretend it's not happening, let's deal with it.  

jerrydon10 - If I was a retiree who had lost 60% of my IRA I would demand that my financial planner tell them what he or she was doing to lose that 60%.  Insuring stock equity positions with Puts?  Obviously not or they would still have nearly 100% of their cash value still in the portfolio.

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

LOL......So would I. Surely you don't think I was the financial planner that recommended they buy long instead of puts??? I see these guys after they already have these problems. I have been advising a total market pull-out since early 2008. Still, some think it will come back. It won't for at least the next 5 years.

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold
jerrydon10 wrote:

GR8TFUL,

You don't see the financial institutions collapsing around you right now? You haven't noticed that Lehman Bro's, Merrill Lynch, AIG and WAMU just to name a few of the big boys are dead in the water? You haven't noticed that the stock market has fallen from around 14,000 points to around 6300 as of today's close? You haven't taken note that 1 in 10 Californians are unemployed right now? You don't see the IRAs of retirees as I do every day as a financial planner that have lost upward of 60% of their retirement savings?

A heads in the sand mentallity will not do any of us good right now. This is not Y2K or some possible conspiricy theory; an economic collapse is happening right before our very eyes. Let's not attempt to pretend it's not happening, let's deal with it.  

 

 Jerry:  Of course I am aware of these things--and more! That said, unless the absolute worst happens (U.S. dollar default) life will go on. Consumption will go down & people will live a lot more frugally, but again, unless the worst occurs, I'm guessing that grocery stores will store buy, store, & sell food, gas stations will sell gas, & the electric company will continue to sell electricity. ALL of these things may cost a lot more than they do now, but they will remain available.

I don't think I have my head in the sand. I'm aware we're in a world of economic #$%@, but I don't think this road ends in all of us turning into farmers & all transactions being done on a barter basis. As long as we have some form of currency that is widely accepted & "the grid" remains, goods & services will continue to be produced, bought, sold, & delivered.

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

I didn't mean to insult you by insinuating that you are "the" one in here with their head in the sand. No personal insult, I meant that as a collective metaphor.

Yes, life will go on. I'm interested to know what you mean by "Consumption will go down & people will live a lot more frugally."

Can you paint a scenario of our future the way that you envision it? I'm very curious.

Relax, as I am not intellectually setting you up here. I'm just wanting to discuss this to see how others feel.

 

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Double post, Sorry.

 

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Relax, as I am not intellectually setting you up here. I'm just wanting to discuss this to see how others feel.

 Cool, sorry if I came off overly defensive!

Look, I'm definitely not as well informed as many on this site, and economics, culture, peak oil, population growth--none of these lie within my area of expertise. So I don't know how everything is ultimately going to play out. What I do know is that I'm overly susceptible to conspiracy theory-type conjecture, so I'm wary of going down that road or hitching rides with people that do. My guess is that long term things aren't going to go well.

But this site has definitely taken on a hyper tone verging on manic which concerns me. Worse yet are those who are not only expecting an imminent SHTF scenerio, they're actually wishing for it & looking forward to it! So although I do think people should become educated & take some common sense preparations, similar to what I do every hurricane season. I stockpile some food, gas, batteries, $, etc., but I don't let my concern about a hurricane season dictate what I do the remaining 9 months out of the year!

What do I expect out of this current economic storm? Bad stuff. But you know what? I was living in Bangkok during the Asian currency crisis, and guess what? Life went on! And I've got very close Argentinian friends who lost a lot of $ a couple of years ago during the crisis there, but again, the planet didn't stop spinning, and so life went on! A lot of people have and will continue to lose a lot of money, and many many retirees dreams are DEAD, but one way or another they'll make it. They might end up living the rest of their days out of a trailer in a park somewhere instead of a highrise condo on the beach, but they'll live. What scenerio do I envision for society? Less filet mignon & more burgers & dogs. Less fine wine and more budweiser. Much higher unemployment. Much higher taxes. Really worried about inflation & loss of buying power of U.S. dollar.

But I am not expecting Mad Max scenerios on I-95 anytime soon!!

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Gr8tful-

I just wanted to say thanks for saying this (and what you posted elsewhere re conspiracies). I started to question whether I belong on this site at all after reading so many posts that as you say are almost manic or worse (e.g. salivating for a collapse). I also sensed that a lot of the folks posting here are big believers in conspiracies; I simply don't buy most, well all, of their theories. Conspiracy theories are, IMO, a simple explanation for the complex and people need/want simple explanations. Seems too many here have been convinced by the Zeitgeist films et al. (Hey, I am expecting the Protocols of Zion to pop up any day on this website.) Honestly, it saddens me to see the path this site, at least on some threads, has taken. Chris has some very important things to say; the Mad Max posts and the conspiracies ad nauseum cheapen the importance of Chris's message.

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

add to the list?

 solar powered devices (water filtration, battery chargers, etc)

chainsaws?

My gf is from Zimbabwe and she said candles and batteries were very valuable

Dimitri Orlov has said vodka would go a long way in the USSR collapse

medications (anti-biotics etc)

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold
Lisa G wrote:

Chris has some very important things to say; the Mad Max posts and the conspiracies ad nauseum cheapen the importance of Chris's message.

Lisa -

Message received.  Hopefully I have created a new sandbox to play in for some of the more excitable folks here.  Check out the following - I hope it works.

http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/definitive-conspiracy-theorist-new-world-order-mad-max-alex-jones-fan-club-thread/14326

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Dogs,

Would "zombies" fall under that category too, or are they too realistic for the Alex Jones types?

Aaron

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Hey Aaron -

LOL - if I thought my title might come off a little insulting, zombies certainly would be.  That said, I wholeheartedly agree with you.

All the wild-eyed ranting should be done in away from threads that cover other material IMO.  By my count, 11 threads have been hijacked by these guys and what had previously been running along with good discussion and sharing petered out under the ravings.

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

Well, life will go on, that's for certain. I'm not particularly into conspiricy theories either, but Chris managed to put into graphs and succinct language what I have been thinking for a couple of years now--a light came on in my head. And I think that even though life will go on, it may not go on as we know it.

I remember thinking during the Y2K days when people were predicting that airplanes would fall out of the air: Why can't the pilot just stick his head out the window and land the danged plane? That was just silly. But this is different. It is not a conspiricy theory, mathematics insure that an economic collapse MUST happen.

And we have been here before. We are all familiar with the soup lines of the great depression. This has the potential to be the great depression on steroids. Therefore, I don't see it as alarmism to insure that my family is safe, warm and comfortable. Heck, we buy homeowners insurance even though the chance is very slim that it will burn down.

Will we all become Amish farmers as someone in here termed it? No, someone will always make washing machines and someone else will always have the money to buy that product. People will always need barbers, taylors, grocery stores and doctors and they will pay for these services.  But there will be an adjustment period to re-align our lifestyles and this is what is scaring people.

As for economic collapse, it IS imminent. It's happening now. No, the sky will not fall tomorrow. It didn't in 1929 either. It started in 1929 and the markets reached their low in 1932. That market did not fully recover until 1954.

As for me and mine, we will hope for the best but prepare for the worst. That seems prudent to me.

 

 

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold

 Thanks for both threads here--the idea of "tradables" and the comments on how bad it may r may not get. I am going to start a new thread on scenarios. This has been one of my questions to begin with. It's clear we need to prepare, but I wonder what might wwe be preparing for?

Meanwhile for the list of tradables don't forget

coffee, tea, tobacco, lighters, chocolate, sugar, alcohol

Things like coffee can not be grown outside of the tropics...

David

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Re: Better Investment Than Gold
davidm wrote:

 Thanks for both threads here--the idea of "tradables" and the comments on how bad it may r may not get. I am going to start a new thread on scenarios. This has been one of my questions to begin with. It's clear we need to prepare, but I wonder what might wwe be preparing for?

Meanwhile for the list of tradables don't forget

coffee, tea, tobacco, lighters, chocolate, sugar, alcohol

Things like coffee can not be grown outside of the tropics...

David

David -

There are a couple of old threads floating around that had pretty good "lists of stuff".  Try the search feature - I'll look through my old posts and see if I can find them.  If I do, I'll PM them to you.

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Less talk, more action: what to do now to prepare, THE COMPLETE

Less talk, more action: what to do now to prepare, THE COMPLETE MANUAL

www.PeakProsperity.com/forum/less-talk-more-action-what-do-now-prepare-complete-manual/14167

This should help.

Cat

 

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