Best way to take action?

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
davidhood's picture
davidhood
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 10 2008
Posts: 4
Best way to take action?

Does anyone have any good ideas on the best way to protest these government bailouts? I'd like to be able to offer up some suggestions to friends.

I for one, have moved all my money out of major banks and into local credit unions. I encourage others to do the same. If there was some way to rally the masses to remove their money from these large corrupt financial institutions they'd almost certainly have go bankrupt.

I don't think marching in the street is the most effective way to take action.  What can people do? The problems are evident, and many times the solutions are as well, but how does one have an effect on the "system" to bring about change?

Other things we've done...

Bought a fuel efficient car (VW).

Reduced our meat consumption by 75%.

Started our own garden.

Thank you for your input,

anarkst's picture
anarkst
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 1 2009
Posts: 121
Re: Best way to take action?

davidhood writes:

Does anyone have any good ideas on the best way to protest these government bailouts? I'd like to be able to offer up some suggestions to friends.

Don't pay your taxes. 

I don't think marching in the street is the most effective way to take action.  What can people do? The problems are evident, and many times the solutions are as well, but how does one have an effect on the "system" to bring about change?

These things generally need to reach a critical mass (energy:).  Once they do, get out of the way!  I have a feeling that we are all going to find out what it really means to be an American. 

rowmat's picture
rowmat
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 15 2008
Posts: 358
Re: Best way to take action?
anarkst wrote:

davidhood writes:

Does anyone have any good ideas on the best way to protest these government bailouts? I'd like to be able to offer up some suggestions to friends.

Don't pay your taxes.

I have a better idea... first send them IOU's... then don't pay them!

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?

Well lets lookee at Gungnir and Plickety's anti-establishment action plan.

  1. Default mortgage, tell mortgage company they reap what they sow
  2. Liquidate all assets and reinvest in commodities and hard goods for survival.
  3. Move to Alaska, to be off grid without even a real postal address, and lots of wild game wanders through our property (subsistence hunting licenses are real cheap too)
  4. Self Build their own off grid living shelter, with small agriculture plot (under AK homestead rules, "no it's illegal here Mr. Lehman to repo my truck for a deficiency judgement!") with minimal cash income
  5. Property is unincorporated, with no taxes, or permitting. Add in the AK PDF (permanent Dividend Fund) and we're actually likely paying less than zero taxes.
  6. Ensure proximity to AK State resources available to residents for cheap resources (Wood lot, $5/year for as much fuel wood as you can cut haul, $10/year community well costs for as much water as you can pump/haul)

So we're sticking it to the banks, and the Federal government, and only need to worry about state sales taxes.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Best way to take action?

Gungnir and Plickety, you guys (er a guy and gal) are my heroes.

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?

Thanks Rog it means a lot.

The default was the hardest, but when we thought about it like a business, it was a no brainer. Since we've both owned at some point in time our own businesses, then getting into that midset wasn't too difficult. When I spoke to the lenders (the Heloc was the most persistent) and I explained it in a business way, I have an investment that takes roughly 1/3 of my total company income, and is giving me no return, and if I sold in about the next 5 years it I wouldn't get back by original investment, then I'd jettison it. I was called untrustworthy, and dishonorable, which I must admit I laughed at the "collector" about that, especially when I turned around and asked what was honorable about laundering C rated CDO tranches into AAA tranches, that they were more than partly responsible for, so they could plunder low risk low yield life savings accounts such as 401k's Social Security and IRA's that then collapsed and drained those savings accounts, while their Executive officers made millions on the deals. They were quite quiet after that.

A long time friend of mine is calling me a modern day Jesse James I quite like that analogy.

anarkst's picture
anarkst
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 1 2009
Posts: 121
Re: Best way to take action?

Well lets lookee at Gungnir and Plickety's anti-establishment action plan.

I guess there are two approaches to this thing.  Your's is certainly admirable, and in the spirit of those who tread this land before us, but consider the alternative...stay and fight the good fight.

What many people still fail to comprehend is that the revolution has already taken place.  The oligarchs re-wrote much of the laws that allowed them to do what they have done. Therefore, it's not what's illegal that's the problem, but instead, what is perfectly legal. 

I see it this way.  This is a two stage counter-revolution.  Step one, turn off the money spigot.  Two, show them the door.

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?

Well I've stopped the Money Spigot (no more federal taxation on my previous 6 figure salary, I used to pay more taxes a year than the average American annual income).

Stage 2 showing them the door, well, if there's no money, then maybe we don't need a door, the system is so messed up and so dependent on continuous cashflow that it's like an inflatable bouncy castle at a kids birthday party, stop the air flow and the thing collapses in on itself. That's not to say if you're a kid bouncing on the castle you're not going to get hurt, which is why I'm off to play in the neighbors garden for a while after helping to kill the power... I don't want to get hit by the collapsing inflatable of the federal government which is significantly heavier than the PVC coated Canvas they use on the bouncy castles.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Best way to take action?

Anarkst,

From what I know about Gunginr, I would expect him to be the first in line to "fight the good fight" when it's time comes. I don't think you meant it this way, but he is certainly not running away from anything, and his choices make his life potentially more difficult than if he did stay.

Looks like he has done step 1 better than most (I still have taxes on taxes that I have no say over). From that perspective, I would call him a leader in the good fight!

Cheers,

Rog

anarkst's picture
anarkst
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 1 2009
Posts: 121
Re: Best way to take action?

Rog,

This is much like the inflation/deflation debate.  Once you see through the illusion, who cares what happens to your money?  There are probably millions of Americans considering what they are going to do if (when) things start to get a little testy.  For many people, the best choice will be to seek greener pastures.  For others, it will be to stay.  I am not judging Gungnir.  He has to do what he feels is best for himself and his family.        

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?

Rog thank you for the vote of confidence.

Let me explain the planning we thought of.

Firstly lets look at the AK plan, and then my concerns for the lower 48.

AK plan, create a self sustaining community that can survive the crash with zero impact, we got much more land than we need, we have 80 acres, and in that we can sustain both ourselves and with others pitching in from our nearest community Manley Hot Springs. Getting out of the lower 48 was a conscious decision, much like NORAD you take the people who can affect change and drop them in the middle of nowhere so that whatever happens to your civilization they will survive to rise from the ashes. The NORAD plan was to rebuild the US the same, I don't think that's likely.

Now as I mentioned earlier about the bouncy castle, nearer the truth the federal government is more like a Vampire, than needs a constant flow of blood ($$$) to continue to operate, and as times get worse that vampire is going to become more and more voracious (we're seeing that now with bailout monies, and we all know who is going to foot that bill) and less and less benign for example the annual intelligence budget is $28B and the USDA is $130B how will they respond and lobby for funding, and prove their worth in leaner government times (and in this I mean within this current presidency).

As time progresses and those costs can't be met the vampire is going to gradually collapse, but not before it's inflicted significant damage on the American people. Many of whom have no experience living off grid, or being part of a self sustaining community, how will they reform into something that approximates living considering the chances that forced labor, and forms of government terrorism have likely been inflicted on that populace etc. Well wouldn't it be nice if there was someone (or many someones) were around who could help out in that exact situation? Who had the skills and experiences to help out those who actually wanted to have some form of community, or perhaps even reform some form of more benign national government. By the people for the people.

I happen to be about to live on the edge of the United States, in a state that has marginal at best federal control outside of Juneau, Anchorage, Fairbanks and Prudhoe bay, then any of those ripple effects aren't going to hit me as hard, or as frequently as in the Lower 48, and giving me more time to prepare for them and be less affected by them. It's also full of people who have been self sufficient for years, or mostly so. Other than Gas/Diesel, booze and cigarettes, most Alaskans I know outside of the major cities can survive indefinitely, and if the BATFE is crushed in a federal collapse, then ethanol/methane and biodiesel production will skyrocket in AK, which will (with a bit of engine tinkering) resolve the gasoline/petrochemical issues.

Ultimately I believe that a lot of the people here (who are involved actively or passively in these discussions) will be those people, me being one, who happens to live in a place that's miles away from anywhere just in case the worst case scenario occurs. Now if I can succeed in a relatively inhospitable climate, then doing the same in more hospitable climes (from the Canadian Border south) should be a breeze.

How that assistance can be applied, is as yet unclear, it might be remotely via long range radio, or still the internet (the US collapse isn't going to effect that too badly) or up close and personal. The challenges of those fledgling communities will be many, from defence problems (raids from other less benign communities) through to just not knowing what to really do to survive, what to salvage, what to plant and how to form a sustainable community.

Finally to add a little controversy, firearms and ammunition supplies, why so many, and why so much ammunition about 50-70 thousand rounds (both on hand and reloading supplies). Well the hope is that they're not needed, but plan for the worst, hope for the best, hope I don't need them other than for feeding myself, community and wife, but if I need them for defensive purposes I have the equipment, the materials and the abilities to use them, and supply a small group of defenders for an extended period.

Is this plan over-engineered from a risk perspective, possibly, but better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, it's always the thing that you need that you don't have that gets you killed.

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?
anarkst wrote:

This is much like the inflation/deflation debate.  Once you see through the illusion, who cares what happens to your money?

I don't care what happens to my money, I care that I can survive. My money is purely a tool that is currently in general circulation so that I can receive goods and services that I need to eliminate a dependency on money.

I've said this many times on CM if in a couple of years post crash you come to my property and expect to get shelter for a few days, food and water, and offer to pay for it in cash or gold, then you can be on your way without any of them. If you want to sweat some and help out, then I'll feed and water you and give you shelter. If you have something I need in trade then I'll feed and water you and give you shelter in trade. Money is irrelevant, resources are everything, using an abstract for a specific service in a post crash world is getting you no where with me, I'll always need sweat equity, and chances are you'll always have something I can use.

rhare's picture
rhare
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 30 2009
Posts: 1325
Re: Best way to take action?

What many people still fail to comprehend is that the revolution has already taken place.  The oligarchs re-wrote much of the laws that allowed them to do what they have done. Therefore, it's not what's illegal that's the problem, but instead, what is perfectly legal. 

I think you have this wrong.  It is whats illegal that is the problem.  The government has made it illegal to be competitive.  It has made any money other than the Fed illegal to use, rather they made it illegal to not accept the Fed notes.  This is the root of it all.  Without the Fed and fiat currency most of the economic problems could not have occurred.

Think about it, who is calling for more regulation and laws? The government itself.  Why think they are right now?  Competition is the best thing and we need it in so many places: Health care, Energy, Money.  However, in all of these the government has set up laws and regulations that favor the big players and keep competition down.

anarkst's picture
anarkst
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 1 2009
Posts: 121
Re: Best way to take action?

Gungnir writes:

Is this plan over-engineered from a risk perspective, possibly, but better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it, it's always the thing that you need that you don't have that gets you killed.

My only concern is that perhaps you have pulled the trigger too soon.  There is no question that there is massive change on the way, but we don't know what form the change will take   In retrospect, you might come out of this thing looking like a genius, but maybe not.  Who thought the Soviet Union would just sort of close up shop the way it did?

There are infinite variables that need to play out here, so I believe the most important thing to do is remain as flexible as possible.  But that's me. 

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?

All conditioned things are impermanent. Work out your own salvation with diligence...

Early, or late its all relative.

davidhood's picture
davidhood
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 10 2008
Posts: 4
Re: Best way to take action?

I expected better response to the question I posted to start this thread. It would seem that except for a few individuals most folks here big on talk but short on action.

Am I wrong?

SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 2236
Re: Best way to take action?
davidhood wrote:

Does anyone have any good ideas on the best way to protest these government bailouts? I'd like to be able to offer up some suggestions to friends.

David -- all the things you have done are sound, and a decent start.  If you could get 50% of BofA's depositors to shift their money to credit unions, yep, they'd be in a world of hurt.  Then what?  Get Citi's depositors to shift their money?  What do you think the reaction of the very real, very powerful groups that run such institutions would be?  Would they sit at their desks, watching total deposits trickle away to nothing, put on their hat and go home?  I'm asking because I'm curious what your idea about that is.  

IMO any course of action to "take down" a hated institution is coming from the wrong direction.  When we "attack" things, we become attached to them.  We become entangled in them (due to their reaction to our action), most stickily on the psychological level.  We're playing their game on their home field.  Much better, again in my opinion, is to opt out of the game and decouple to the extent possible.  So that could mean moving my money into a credit union, but more importantly (and here I must tip my hat to Aaron Moyer) I'd aggressively begin to reformat my life such that I'm unplugging myself from all the little taps that drain a bit of my lifeblood every day (and a hat tip to Gungnir for the vampire metaphor earlier in the thread).  

To the extent possible:  set up my life to need the barest minimum possible income from the national economy (and therefore pay less income tax).  But as few items at retail as possible (and therefore stop paying sales taxes).  Go barter.  Go sweat equity.  Go small (house, car, possessions).  Take all the hours that I've saved (by working less at a job) and build up a tight little community of the like-minded.  When somebody needs "x" -- do a "barn raising", i.e. get everybody together from the community and make "x" happen.  

Make your own entertainment (do you really need $5-8k wortha TV and surround-sound?).

Grow your own food (or as much as you can) -- you'll save money and be healthier.  Form a food buying co-op that sources as much as possible locally.  

And so forth (this post could go on for pages and rightfully prolly end up under the Community Building thread, but no doubt you get the idea)...

The game is crooked.  Opt out.  Get your friends to come along.

VIVA -- Sager

 

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?
davidhood wrote:

I expected better response to the question I posted to start this thread. It would seem that except for a few individuals most folks here big on talk but short on action.

Am I wrong?

I think that the judgment that your post implies is wrong. People do what they can given their circumstances, not everyone is diving in at the deep end like I am, and for excellent personal reasons. Maybe I'm wrong, and might come crawling back in a few years, maybe others  will have issues where they're still dependent on services that are no longer supplied. Since none of us know how the overall coming crash will happen and end, there is no right or wrong way to do things, and big actions might not be the most effective survival technique. I can't speak for anyone else but myself, and I'm disconnecting from the current US system as much as feasibly possible, I do still have some things that I'll be needing but that doesn't include food, water, shelter, power, or telecommunications (that comes from satellite). However, I've experience of survival training in the arctic and sub arctic, I can shoot well enough to feed myself and my family, I've grown my own vegetables and produce from time to time, I can butcher a pig, and chickens, and other beasties. I know enough about field medicine to get someone to a hospital with some life threatening injuries. I know a fair bit about construction, and a lot about physics which includes mechanics, electrics, electronics, and can quite easily set up a Solar, wind and likely Steam power generation system without reference materials other than product manuals, and can correctly align a satellite dish, I also play guitar. Not everyone is in the same position, nor has the same skills and resources, what I'm doing would be fatal to some people depending on their circumstances, here's a great example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless

Unfortunately I don't think that we have a Seer or an Oracle on the site to be able to state one way or another whether any one persons path to survive the crash is going to work or not.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Best way to take action?
davidhood wrote:

I expected better response to the question I posted to start this thread. It would seem that except for a few individuals most folks here big on talk but short on action.

Am I wrong?

In short, yes.

If what you are trying to determine is how to take down the federal government, you've come to the wrong place.

Since your second post on this site is an insult to most, I won't go further until you both disclose your intentions and change your tone. You will likely get this response from most people here with your present communication technique.

 

Juli B's picture
Juli B
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 28 2009
Posts: 87
Re: Best way to take action?
Gungnir wrote:
davidhood wrote:

I expected better response to the question I posted to start this thread. It would seem that except for a few individuals most folks here big on talk but short on action.

Am I wrong?

I think that the judgment that your post implies is wrong. People do what they can given their circumstances, not everyone is diving in at the deep end like I am, and for excellent personal reasons. Maybe I'm wrong, and might come crawling back in a few years, maybe others  will have issues where they're still dependent on services that are no longer supplied. Since none of us know how the overall coming crash will happen and end, there is no right or wrong way to do things, and big actions might not be the most effective survival technique. I can't speak for anyone else but myself, and I'm disconnecting from the current US system as much as feasibly possible, I do still have some things that I'll be needing but that doesn't include food, water, shelter, power, or telecommunications (that comes from satellite). However, I've experience of survival training in the arctic and sub arctic, I can shoot well enough to feed myself and my family, I've grown my own vegetables and produce from time to time, I can butcher a pig, and chickens, and other beasties. I know enough about field medicine to get someone to a hospital with some life threatening injuries. I know a fair bit about construction, and a lot about physics which includes mechanics, electrics, electronics, and can quite easily set up a Solar, wind and likely Steam power generation system without reference materials other than product manuals, and can correctly align a satellite dish, I also play guitar. Not everyone is in the same position, nor has the same skills and resources, what I'm doing would be fatal to some people depending on their circumstances, here's a great example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_McCandless

Unfortunately I don't think that we have a Seer or an Oracle on the site to be able to state one way or another whether any one persons path to survive the crash is going to work or not.

davidhood,

Our approach is similar in philosophy to Sagar's (lacking the full complement of Gunghir's formidable skills and experience!). We are redesigning the basic structure of our current lifestyle to de-couple as much as possible from anything that supports TPTB and mass "gubbermint" . We do have production skills (farming/land/water/permaculture design/herbal medicine/food preservation/machinery repair/ etc.) that can and hopefully will contribute to a small community of people with complementary values (not necessarily opinions!).

Connecting with and building a self-reliant community that posseses complementary skills and resources has been and remains fundamental to surviving and thriving. Community has been largely destroyed in this society...killed by television, worship of mass consumerism, contentiousness, materialism, and other "isms" that substituted for the human connection that reinforces our interdependence on each other and on the world around us. When you recognize that interdependence, you (the rhetorical you) are less likely to act in ways that lead yourself to self-destruct. Power seeks to obscure that sense so that it can manipulate people to its own ends.

Rebuild community and you will have responded to these destructive powers that strangle our creative ability to map our own pathways. Pathways that move us in a direction that heals damage this materialistic focus has wrought on our world, our ecosystem, and not least, our spirits. We live in a damaged and fragmented society with human spirits that are often starved for connection. Small wonder we tend to orient on stockpiling guns and ammunition (yep, us too). We who are watching the unraveling (the Great Unwinding?) are paranoid about the fallout from this accelerating downward spiral and rightly so.

So--putting your money in credit unions, money stored as PMS, whatever. Money is a concept that embodies stored energy--energy of labor, solar energy, whatever -- more salmon oil than someone could use in a winter, somewhere and somewhen. But essentially all forms of money are based on a basic level of trust--I trust that I will accept this belt of shell beads for the item or service that you need from me and that at some point in the future, when and if I need something, I can exchange it for that something and it will be accepted WITHOUT question by whoever I might encounter in my trading network.

Trust itself is a valuable commodity; the whole concept of money is predicated to some degree on that trust. Establish with whoever and wherever that innate trust and you are more than halfway to responding to the evil/incompetent/idiotic -- pick your adjectives -- PTB's manipulation of this society. ::whew:: Guess you triggered my tripwire.

Thank you! Hope this sheds a bit of perspective on some actions that CM-inspired people are taking (at least mine). Sometimes the most appropriate response is not a direct action against, but one in an oblique direction...that gets you off that path altogether. At the very least, you become less predictable. And I personally think that is a very good thing to be.

ciao, juli 

davidhood's picture
davidhood
Status: Member (Offline)
Joined: Jul 10 2008
Posts: 4
Re: Best way to take action?

Thank you guys for the great posts, I value your perspective.

Ready,

I don't especially want to take down the goverment (or corporations), but I would like to be able to change behavior.  99.9% of all the blog and news posts I read on the internet are mainly people lamenting how bad it is, how bad it might get,etc, but very few offer suggestions for action. As much as I like to unplug, my business is such that it's not practical for me to unplug from the system, but I would like to be active enough to do my part to try and change the system. Most of the population is drifting aimlessly with no ideas on what to do. If people could be moved to take small measures the overall change could be very large.

Sorry about my frustrated attitude.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Best way to take action?

David,

Several of us here have explored many ideas. We have discussed not paying taxes, things like the tea parties, Audit the Fed, end the Fed, stopping consumption, local currencies, pulling all deposits creating a run on the banks, etc. etc. etc.

Ultimately there is no answer until we have enough people on board to effect real change. For now, this means, at least to the folks who have been here for a while, to continue to try to spread the word and bring the message to enough folks to reach a critical mass, and prepare yourself and your community for the event that we cannot recruit enough folks in time.

Additionally, you cannot just tear the system down that so many people's lives depend upon until you have a replacement. If you look at the revolutionary war, America had a government that was there before during, and after. We do not have nearly the same situation now as in 1776. It's not simple.

The other things to consider are regardless of the condition of our economy, debt based fiat money, or whatever is your hot button, we are still at peak oil and our planet has over 6 billion people on it that cannot be sustained without oil inputs. Even if we had exactly the government and financial systems that were sustainable, we missed our opportunity to prepare for the lack of cheap energy decades ago. We need to prepare ourselves for this ASAP.

Sorry to be evasive about this, but there is a reason you have not heard about how to proceed, it's just not a simple answer.

You can believe that there are those of us here who would love to make a difference when the time comes.

Best,

Rog

Gungnir's picture
Gungnir
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 2 2009
Posts: 643
Re: Best way to take action?

Good answer Rog.

Effective summation of the intent of my prep, without being wordy or specific.

Yep, we're mostly screwed, and need to either remove TPTB from the equation, or get them to see the issues as they are, and not through their current rose tinted glasses.

If you look at post #25 on this thread http://www.peakprosperity.com/forum/what-would-world-look-if-scientists-... this is why we'll have issues in the very near future, and how we've missed our window to change without some seriously significant impacts.

How you proceed with doing something is very personal, that's something you need to decide for yourself. However there is a great deal of information and resources on the site, and in the internet cloud about what you could do if you choose to proceed. JAG (one of the community) has Dropbox set up with a wealth of resources, you'll need to ping him for access.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments