Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

58 posts / 0 new
Last post
TD's picture
TD
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 7 2009
Posts: 51
Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Our view on the Federal Reserve: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Fed staves off second Depression, faces threat to its independence.

 

Here's a link to the complete USA Today's opinion...

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped/2009/08/todays-debate-the-federal-reserve...

 

Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke did more than anyone else to keep a banking crisis from turning into a global economic catastrophe. When shell-shocked financial institutions suddenly stopped lending last fall, he poured enormous sums into their coffers, offering them emergency loans to shore up their balance sheets and encourage them to continue lending. Since then he has devised a variety of creative ways to keep credit markets running and interest rates low, including buying more than a half trillion dollars in mortgage portfolios.

So now that the threat of a total implosion appears to have abated, one might think that Congress would give Bernanke a pat on the back. Instead, it has been treating the man and the institution with considerable scorn. A majority of House members have signed onto a bill to force the Fed to undergo a review by Congress' chief investigator, which would recommend changes to be imposed on the Fed.

Superficially, the bill would just require more disclosure of Fed actions. But disclosure is already ample, and Bernanke has dynamically increased transparency. It is more likely to prove a vehicle for meddling, which the bill's primary sponsor, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas, has long wanted to do.....

 

 

 

Ken C's picture
Ken C
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 13 2009
Posts: 753
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Regardless of what you think of Bernanke (hero or villian) there is no legitimate reason why the people of the U.S. should not know what the FED is doing. The congress created the FED and should audit them because we simply don't know what they have been doing with our resources other than morgaging our grandchildren's future.

 

Ken

 

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Be careful what you wish for. All the activities of the Fed have bought us some time, regardless of the looting. It could have been done differently, but it wasn't and it is too late to reverse course now.

It's important to look at that time as a gift and get yourself prepared. The new bubble of federal debt that is forming thanks to helicopter Ben and others will pop, and you don't want to get anything on you when it does! If we were to gain 100% transparency to the actions of the Fed right now, the game would be over, pretty much immediately, IMO.

Best,

Rog

Ken C's picture
Ken C
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 13 2009
Posts: 753
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Ready wrote:

Be careful what you wish for. All the activities of the Fed have bought us some time, regardless of the looting. It could have been done differently, but it wasn't and it is too late to reverse course now.

It's important to look at that time as a gift and get yourself prepared. The new bubble of federal debt that is forming thanks to helicopter Ben and others will pop, and you don't want to get anything on you when it does! If we were to gain 100% transparency to the actions of the Fed right now, the game would be over, pretty much immediately, IMO.

Best,

Rog

I would like to see the end of the FED and the only way (in my opinion) that it will happen is to shine a light on it's actions so that everyone can see the looting. Unless we bite the bullet some time the banksters will continue the looting.

 

Ken

 

cannotaffordit's picture
cannotaffordit
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Jun 12 2008
Posts: 273
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

TD wrote:    "......he poured enormous sums into their coffers, offering them emergency loans to shore up their balance sheets and encourage them to continue lending."

 

I'm still concerned about how they chose which banks' to "shore up their balance sheets" and which ones not.  Just this morning, there is a front page story about Horizon Bank (Western Washington) having a serious problem with its under capitalization.   Although I'm not a customer of that bank, or any of the others that have failed, I still have to wonder why these banks were not given a "helping hand."  But then, I think I know why the bias.  Some banks are just "too big to fail" because they contain friends and big supporters.  Another shameful example of how the most wealthy banking interests and lobbyists are running our government, not the citizens.  Another horrible example is the health care lobby.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Hi Ken,

I'm curious, what do you think the reprcussions of clearly exposing the Fed's actions are to all Americans (I assume you are one) and the rest of the world?

Do you think that we can turn things around in the US if we can somehow stop the banksters from looting? I assume punish them too?

Truth is, I used to want the Fed abolished in the worst way, now I don't think it matters, we have crossed the point of no return IMO. What's your perspective on how this helps?

Best,

Rog

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

The Federal Reserve system is a scam.  Just do the math, we can only lose.

Larry

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Larry, hopefully you understand that I agree. But take Madoff for example. All his investors were doing fine, had access to money, etc. UNTIL HE WAS EXPOSED. Then they ended up with nothing overnight.

This whole deal of the Fed is a scam and a grand Ponzi scheme that is destined for failure. You shine a light on them and you will have a massive dollar crisis in a nano-second. It will be the very thing (many of us) want to prevent.

All I am saying is don't pull the plug until we are ready... right now my sense is that there are not enough awakened Americans and we need the time to further prepare. More come online every day...

Not that it really matters anyhow, we simply don't have the option to make a change, the Fed is too powerful for us who pontificate via discussion threads to do anything about. JMHO

Rog

Cloudfire's picture
Cloudfire
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 29 2008
Posts: 1813
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Ready wrote:

All I am saying is don't pull the plug until we are ready...

Sorry, Rog;

I fail to see how that would make us anything but complicit in their crimes . . . And exactly when will we be ready for the failure of the US dollar?  If ignoring crime for personal benefit is your plan, I don't think I'll ever be "Ready". . .

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

C1oud,

Go throw your stones elsewhere, I will not rise to your bait.

Cloudfire's picture
Cloudfire
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 29 2008
Posts: 1813
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Ready wrote:

C1oud,

Go throw your stones elsewhere, I will not rise to your bait.

Sorry, Rog;

No stones intended . . . and it wasn't intended as bait, as I don't like to bicker . . but I do think that the ethical question is valid . . . I hope that we haven't all fallen to a level where we're just looking to save our behinds, regardless of what's right or wrong . . .  Perhaps I misunderstood your point . . . ? 

I was really just using the same pun on your moniker that you've used, many times . . . to say that, if you mean that we should look the other way, for the benefit of the few of us who have this figured out, I don't think that I can ever share that viewpoint.  But, perhaps, that's not what you meant?

(Edited:  second paragraph added, for clarity)

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Ready wrote:

Larry, hopefully you understand that I agree. But take Madoff for example. All his investors were doing fine, had access to money, etc. UNTIL HE WAS EXPOSED. Then they ended up with nothing overnight.

This whole deal of the Fed is a scam and a grand Ponzi scheme that is destined for failure. You shine a light on them and you will have a massive dollar crisis in a nano-second. It will be the very thing (many of us) want to prevent.

All I am saying is don't pull the plug until we are ready... right now my sense is that there are not enough awakened Americans and we need the time to further prepare. More come online every day...

Rog -

One of the things we discussed at length at Lowesville was the fact that no meaningful societal change or social movement was ever initiated inside the confines of the Idiocracy in DC.  (Okay, Chris just said DC, I added the "Idiocracy" moniker.)

Meaningful change only follows a severe shock to the status quo.  Just imagine how many Americans would jump onboard the Reform Train following a complete collapse of the banking system and the world economy?  We'd likely swap out all the snapperheads in DC and be able to enact real change.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

One of the things we discussed at length at Lowesville was the fact that no meaningful societal change or social movement was ever initiated inside the confines of the Idiocracy in DC.  (Okay, Chris just said DC, I added the "Idiocracy" moniker.)

Meaningful change only follows a severe shock to the status quo.  Just imagine how many Americans would jump onboard the Reform Train following a complete collapse of the banking system and the world economy?  We'd likely swap out all the snapperheads in DC and be able to enact real change.

I've heard this logic before, even spouted it myself until recently. I've had a change of heart on this topic.

My concern is twofold. First, if you look through history, anywhere there is a political power vacuum, seldom does the resulting regime turn out to be what is best for the people. People often cite the Revolutionary War, but during that entire period, the US had it's own government which stayed intact before, during, and after. On the other end of the spectrum is Germany post WWI, where Germany had no sense of itself, and was badly in need of leadership. We all know where that story ends. I guess my question is "Swap out the snapperheads" with who? I'd hate to be in a rush and get this one wrong like so many have in history. This should not be interpreted as as support for the status quo, it is not.

Secondly, it would seem that a "slow power-down" so to speak would be the best overall plan at this point, having lost our opportunity to make meaningful corrections some time ago. This will effect the entire globe, not just the US. I don't believe that we have the power to remove the Fed or any other government agency (yet, not enough people awake)  so this is a bit of a mute point. But if we did have the support we need, I would advocate a very careful approach to the situation. Simply ripping off the band aid would be counter-productive to the masses and will generate more turmoil than is necessary.

Let's walk through the process. Assuming we could cause an audit of the Fed, and it becomes apparent to the entire world that the shell game is taking place, and a new US federal debt bubble, the likes of which has never been seen is forming. Pop! Everyone with any sense gets out of USD overnight. Now, farms don't run, trucks don't bring groceries, people riot and die. And all so that we can move the ability to print worthless USDs from the Fed to the USGov? And how does this process somehow fix the problems, not to mention the ones it creates?

The whole thing seems to me that we would be biting our nose off to spite our face. Sure we are angry at the Fed and the banksters, and many hate the USGov. But to tear it all down without USGov 2.0 ready to roll? Ah, what the hell, the United Nations will step in and put us on track, right?

 

 

strabes's picture
strabes
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 7 2009
Posts: 1032
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

 

Quote:

Assuming we could cause an audit of the Fed, and it becomes apparent to the entire world that the shell game is taking place, and a new US federal debt bubble, the likes of which has never been seen is forming. Pop! Everyone with any sense gets out of USD overnight. Now, farms don't run, trucks don't bring groceries, people riot and die. And all so that we can move the ability to print worthless USDs from the Fed to the USGov? And how does this process somehow fix the problems, not to mention the ones it creates?

This will happen anyway.  The idea that a small group of Wall St types can save our lives with phony money is the problem in the first place...why do 350,000,000 americans slavishly/passively wait on them to feed us? The primary thing the Fed is doing in the meantime is restructuring the economy according to the ways TPTB want so they have more power as we move into the "pop," for example JPMChase seizing the entire PNW as the government approved it's WAMU takeover for practically free which gives the NY financial interests behind JPMChase control in a densely populated region of the US it had yet to takeover.  I'd rather have the pop before Wall St/DC has setup their strategic plans to control the pop.  I'd rather return to a republic...if governors did their jobs, letting things pop wouldn't be anarchy...we've been so trained in national empire we no longer trust the form of government the constitution setup.  The pop would be extremely painful (there's no escaping the eventual pain), but not uncontrolled anarchy. 

Once the next phase of the collapse sets in, it will be clear that what you're suggesting the Fed has succeeded at doing is not true. They have only temporarily pumped another shot of heroin into the addict...and the addict is now fooled into thinking the heroin has again saved him. Withdrawal is coming.  

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Rog -

If not the UN, then Planet X and December 21st, 2012 when the world comes to an end. 

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
strabes wrote:

 This will happen anyway.  The idea that a small group of Wall St types can save our lives with phony money is the problem in the first place...why do 350,000,000 americans slavishly/passively wait on them to feed us?  The primary thing the Fed is doing in the meantime is restructuring the economy according to the ways TPTB want so they have more power as we move into the "pop," for example JPMChase seizing the entire PNW as the government approved it's WAMU takeover for practically free which gives the NY financial interests behind JPMChase control in the last densely populated region of the US it had yet to takeover.  I'd rather have the pop before Wall St/DC has setup their strategic plans to control the pop.  I'd rather return to a republic...if governors did their jobs, letting things pop wouldn't be chaos.  It would be extremely painful (there's no escaping the eventual pain), but not uncontrolled. 

Once the next phase of the collapse sets in, it will be clear that what you're suggesting the Fed has succeeded at doing is not true. They have only temporarily pumped another shot of heroin into the addict...and the addict is now fooled into thinking the heroin has again saved him. Withdrawal is coming.  

Strabes, I cannot dispute what you are saying. The reason 349,000 (at least some of us are awake) are waiting to be fed is because our citizenry is not aware of the acts being committed. We need to make them aware.

Who will give the states the appropriate support to minimize disruptions? An informed and active base of citizens. In my opinion, this is the part we are lacking.

I am not suggesting the Fed has done anything more than stick it's 10 fingers in the 20 holes in the dike. It will come down, I completely agree. If it happens tomorrow, Americans will be reactionary. Emotion is a bad place to deal from in these times, wouldn't you agree?

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

Rog -

If not the UN, then Planet X and December 21st, 2012 when the world comes to an end. 

Dogs, like I said at the beginning of this post, be careful what you wish for.

Personally, I think the Myans had something to do with the swine flu, I just can't prove it.

strabes's picture
strabes
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 7 2009
Posts: 1032
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Rog, yes I agree.  We're in quite a pickle.  Unfortunately I think you're right because we have become a hollow shell of an addict who can't manage his own life.  We need inpatient treatment.  But there is no such thing for empires.  So I suppose I agree that the Fed trying to manage this from an overnight catastrophic death spiral into a more managed catastrophe might save millions of lives, but millions around the world will still prematurely die...catastrophe comes regardless.  But I'm going to continue pointing out how they're enacting the plans of strategic interests in the process of managing the collapse...Bernanke gets his marching orders from secret meetings with those interests...the stuff that's not audited...and I will continue opposing those strategic interests.

As far as this thread goes, I just have a problem with an article claiming the Fed has saved us.  Truth needs to be spoken.  The cartel around the Fed was the cancer in the first place so a cute, bald, little academic with a beard telling us that we need to give the cancer more power is offensive and infuriating to me.  

kaman's picture
kaman
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Apr 24 2009
Posts: 51
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Never have I been disappointed to hawk this site, and this thread is certainly no exception.

The two opposite views here on what to do about the FED is a bit of a national quandary.  The shear complexity of the situation may be steering more people than we know to doing nothing out of a sense of confusion, helplessness, and insecurity. 

We each have our individual idea of where we'd like to be when the lights go out, but just like the greed that put us here, will any of us ever reach a self-imposed level of preparedness - or will we keep raising the bar while looking the other way?

And regardless of when the bubble burts, won't the end result play out basically the same?  What new potential leaders have emerged, or dare to at this point in time?  What new party has emerged based solely on the principles of our Republic?  What overwhelming public outcry has there been to the passing of outlandish legislation in the absence of representation?  Today, tomorrow, next week, it makes no difference to me.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
kaman wrote:

What new potential leaders have emerged, or dare to at this point in time?  What new party has emerged based solely on the principles of our Republic? 

This is what scares me the most about an abrupt shock. In the absence of true leadership, the banksters will have no opposition and will (perhaps openly this time) run everything. Even our illusion of democracy will be shattered.

Where is our Jefferson and Adams? In their absence we will get another Hamilton.

There is no easy answer. There does not even seem to be a hard answer.

Ken C's picture
Ken C
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 13 2009
Posts: 753
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Ready wrote:

Hi Ken,

I'm curious, what do you think the reprcussions of clearly exposing the Fed's actions are to all Americans (I assume you are one) and the rest of the world?

Do you think that we can turn things around in the US if we can somehow stop the banksters from looting? I assume punish them too?

Truth is, I used to want the Fed abolished in the worst way, now I don't think it matters, we have crossed the point of no return IMO. What's your perspective on how this helps?

Best,

Rog

 

Hi Rog,

 

I certainly see your point.

I am becoming more cynical everyday and even though I would like to see the FED audited I am expecting that the banksters will find a way to stop it. However, if we do have this chance to expose them I say we take it and maybe something better will rise from the ashes.

Still - a long shot of an opportunity.

 

Ken

 

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Rog, Kaman -

Good points but I think you give the banksters far too much credit.  they were able to get away with what they (the industry) have been doing for hundreds of years because the world was big enough for them to play in it.  There was enough surplus that they were able to enact Ponzis and create all kinds of garbage vehicles to amass money.  They became comfortable and smug and arrogant and thought their model would last forever.

However, they have been the architects of their own demise.  They have manufactured their own downfall - their arrogance and overconfidence turned into the incompetence that accompanies a perceived sense of invincibility.  They are not puppet masters, they are not world leaders, they are simple men and women.  The world is now flat, the world is now transparent and - the light of sensibility is slowly being turned into corners that have long been ignored.

The banking model that ran for centuries is now broken and the bubble is going to burst - and the sooner and more cataclysmic the better.  The so called elite will fall and fall hard.  They don't have secret shadow armies to call out of the woodwork - there are far more of us then them and when enough people wake up and see the ruin that is around them, when enough people watch their family and friends suffer, we will find our Jeffersons and Adams.  They may be sitting next to you at a movie or a ball game; he or she may be cutting your lawn or bagging your groceries or changing the oil in your car.  We the people will engineer our own extraction from the shit storm that the incompetent bankers have brewed up.  The only problem with a big shit storm is everyone gets wet, including those responsible.

There are no puppet-masters, there are only entrenched, self-ititled elitists whose incompetence is now bearing bitter fruit.  Their time is coming to an end and it is up to us to seize what is ours.

The Fourth Turning is here - someone from my daughter or son's generation is going to lead us through.  And when we come ou the other side, we will be much changed and changed for the better.  The amount of pain we suffer going through it is inversely proportional to the amount of sweat and effort we exert now.

I vote for an implosion - but not until next fall.  I want to go to Floyd Fest 9.

For those of you who embrace the conspiracy side of things, save your keyboards.  I won't read any such posts.  Take it to PM or site email and I might engage further.  I have maintained from the get go on this site that I personally accept that there is a non-zero chance the the conspiracies some espouse might be true.  The so-called proof offered to date just doesn't cut it for me, but I still have an open mind.  I just wish you CTers would give the same concession that you might be wrong. 

The Cartesian doubt knife edge is sharpened on both sides.......

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Dogs,

You make it sound so easy, all we have to do is wait them out. Once the crash comes, we get what's ours.

I just don't know about us humans. Seems like we get in there and screw everything up with the dark side that ultimately shows it's face. Point to an "ism" or government or monetary system that can stand the test of time. Unless you have a forward looking time machine, that is a tall order. Look what we have done to the "perfect" document, the US Constitution. Shameful.

I think it won't be quite so simple as you suggest, but I certainly hope you are right. I'll be nicer to the bagboy and the lawnmower man.

PS, it's Jerry Garcia week on XM radio, but I'm guessing you knew that already.

Peace,

Rog

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Rog -

Streaming 12/19/94 right now.  Amazing show.  Listen to Jer on "Days Between".  Third to last song. He knew that night he was dying and he poured it all into "Days" and "Brokedown Palace"

http://www.archive.org/details/gd94-12-19.sbd.vernon.20712.sbeok.shnf 

Start the stream over on the left side of the page under the skull.

Later - off to see Xavier Rudd.

Jazz didgeridoo - go figure.

 

strabes's picture
strabes
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 7 2009
Posts: 1032
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Well I PM'd Dogs as requested, but this is an entirely legit discussion that I think should be responded to...

Quote:

 they have been the architects of their own demise

True for the idiotic typical bourgeois W2 chasers playing the banking game...running along with the herd...they never saw it coming. Not true for JPM Chase and Goldman...now immensely more powerful and will remain so as long as Treasury is run by them. 

Quote:

 They don't have secret shadow armies to call out of the woodwork

Yes but when an arsonist starts a fire, the fire department has to put it out...doesn't mean he owns the fire dept. 

Quote:

 There are no puppet-masters

Somebody decided Lehman would fail while others would be saved...who?  Guarantee not a random decision of a newly elected politician.  Somebody planned for WAMU to be gifted to JPM Chase...who?  Somebody is pushing the agenda from small to big...killing good small banks to help insolvent big banks...who? Somebody planned for FDIC to raise its fees in a way which will put out of business more small banks...who?  There was a reason BofA was saddled with Merrill and somebody told Paulson/Bernanke to force it on them instead of pushing JPM Chase to pay for the dead company...who? Why would a supposedly representative govt go against the will of 75% of the people on the bailouts and Fed actions? Somebody came up with the plans.  It's not a conspiracy fantasy to say that.  It's not a conspiracy fantasy to want to know who, as many in Congress are calling for.  It's not a bunch of idiots in Congress or bureaucratic boobs in the White House who are deciding how the trillions are allocated.  And saying that the Fed meets with a small club of people in secret to decide what to do with trillions isn't a conspiracy fantasy...it's a fact...a fact that is anathema to a republic. What's being done has nothing to do with electoral politics...the agenda of right or left is not being implemented...left and right don't even address this issue. So something else is happening.  It flies in the face of the evidence we see to suggest this is all done at the random whim of politicians who aren't being told what to do.  

 

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Morning Strabes -

How have you been?  Got your PM last night while I was at the Xavier Rudd concert.  Interesting to say the least - he's a didgeridoo player who has a funky, jammy, jazz approach to his music.  His bass player was the best musician on stage IMO.  But I digress..........

Quote:

 

True for the idiotic typical bourgeois W2 chasers playing the banking game...running along with the herd...they never saw it coming. Not true for JPM Chase and Goldman...now immensely more powerful and will remain so as long as Treasury is run by them. 

This will last until we get the Audit Ready doesn't want.  Once the light of day shines on these cockroaches, boom.  The whole mess implodes under the weight of its own incompetence and arrogance.  That will be the tipping point - unfortunately, a lot of people are going to get hurt because they aren't going to care until it's too late for them.  The looting will continue right up until the first stone starts to topple, but when it comes down, watch out.

Quote:

Yes but when an arsonist starts a fire, the fire department has to put it out...doesn't mean he owns the fire dept. 

Sometimes a good controlled burn is needed to clear out the garbage.

Quote:

Somebody decided Lehman would fail while others would be saved...who?  Guarantee not a random decision of a newly elected politician.  Somebody planned for WAMU to be gifted to JPM Chase...who?  Somebody is pushing the agenda from small to big...killing good small banks to help insolvent big banks...who? Somebody planned for FDIC to raise its fees in a way which will put out of business more small banks...who?  There was a reason BofA was saddled with Merrill and somebody told Paulson/Bernanke to force it on them instead of pushing JPM Chase to pay for the dead company...who? Why would a supposedly representative govt go against the will of 75% of the people on the bailouts and Fed actions? Somebody came up with the plans.  It's not a conspiracy fantasy to say that.  It's not a conspiracy fantasy to want to know who, as many in Congress are calling for.  It's not a bunch of idiots in Congress or bureaucratic boobs in the White House who are deciding how the trillions are allocated.  And saying that the Fed meets with a small club of people in secret to decide what to do with trillions isn't a conspiracy fantasy...it's a fact...a fact that is anathema to a republic. What's being done has nothing to do with electoral politics...the agenda of right or left is not being implemented...left and right don't even address this issue. So something else is happening.  It flies in the face of the evidence we see to suggest this is all done at the random whim of politicians who aren't being told what to do.  

Doesn't matter who or what the somebody or someone is.  It is indeed happening but it is unsustainable.  There are at least two dynamics here that I see. 

The reason why it appears as if our politicians are being told what to do is because with a very few exceptions (Ron Paul, Alan Grayson, Dennis Kucinic - yes him), none of them are doing anything.   Professional politicians like Pelosi, Reid, Schumer, Hoyer, Levin, Alexander, Boxer, Byrd, Collins, Dodd, etc, are doing nothing but focusing on reelection by creating entitlement programs they pitch to their constituencies to secure their reelection.  And occasionally they will try to ramrod some POS legislation down our throats by strongarming the few well intended officials.  This is willful, culpable negligence - I would take a sailor to Captain's Mast for such performance - and in many cases pure incompetence.

We now have the "Perfect Storm" of incompetence - incompetent, indifferent and rudderless politicians serving themselves and small (but wealthy) interest groups coupled with the smug arrogance of the banksters.  They built their empire, they directed empires, they created and destroyed empires but they did so on the back of a model that also assumed unfettered continuous growth.  We are seeing the ramifications of what happens when that part of the model falls apart.  The assumed growth was unsustainable and while "they" all sat around sipping brandy and smoking cigars and sacrificing virgins and eating babies in some austere Victorian mansion with shuttered windows, their arrogance and confidence metastisized into a false invincibility and incompetence.  They promoted from within, they inbred and the bloodlines thinned.  And now the empire is teetering.  It is going to fail sooner or later - and when it does 'all the Bilderburg horses and Rothschild men' won't be able to put their Humpty Dumpty together again. 

Ready doesn't want an audit for fear of a cataclysmic collapse.  I understand that - many will suffer.

I also think that people are really going to have to suffer before they get energized.  And by suffer I don't mean cancellation of American Idol, loss of their Direct TV coverage of the NFL package, or a cancelled (insert Hollywood Babylon idiot of choice here) concert.  Many people are ignorant (by choice or otherwise) and are going to get hurt by this collapse.  For many it will be too late.

But we need the audit, we need FED transparency so the transgressions of the organization can be brought to light.  Most of us agree that the system is broken and serves but a few.

I would rather see the system detonate because of the scenario Ready doesn't wan't to happen because only then will people realize that something needs to be done.  There is only one choice after a complete collapse and that is to completely rebuild.  A total collapse will level the playing field and only then will "WE THE PEOPLE" be able to take back our Republic and shape it the way our forebears intended.

Hell, I'm not ready for the collapse an audit would likely bring but I want it to happen.  But like I said earlier, not until next August because I want to go to Floyd Fest again next year.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Dogs,

I don't think it really matters much what I think. This will take it's course regardless of our opinions.

Hopefully anyone who comes across this thread will consider the toll this will take. It will be like setting of a nuclear bomb in every major city in the US. People we know and love, our families, friends, neighbors etc., will need more help than we can provide. I might be able to feed an additional 10 people for a while... but this will take a toll on our humanity. We will be put in a position of choosing to help or not, and potentially defending what we have from those that would take it, not necessarily bad people, but desperate ones.

For me, this is a difficult little mind game to play, I don't want the responsibility for other people's lives. I would rather bring them online now and let them prepare for themselves.

Ultimately I will defend myself. I do not relish the thought of what I will be teaching my boys in the process. I have great internal conflict with this. Hopefully I am not over-dramatizing the  scenario as it will play out, but I've spent many hours playing this out in my head. It has the potential to get really bad really quick, IMO.

Dogs_In_A_Pile's picture
Dogs_In_A_Pile
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 4 2009
Posts: 2606
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Ready -

I hear ya and I sympathize with you.  I've been in the same spot as you and will probably swing back that way.

I don't know what incenses me more - the way our politicians sit smugly and do what they want to do instead of what we want them to do or the way most Americans sit around and fail to to demand that their elected officials do their job.

Right now I am so pissed off at the whole cluster (bumble) that I'm hoping for the Big Bang all the while recognizing that it is clearly a "cut off your nose to spite your face" approach.

Ready's picture
Ready
Status: Platinum Member (Offline)
Joined: Dec 30 2008
Posts: 917
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress
Dogs_In_A_Pile wrote:

I hear ya and I sympathize with you.  I've been in the same spot as you and will probably swing back that way.

Right back at ya.

strabes's picture
strabes
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 7 2009
Posts: 1032
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Love it when a bass player outshines the band.  As a keyboardist, guitarists and drummers need to be humbled.

Quote:

This will last until we get the Audit Ready doesn't want.  Once the light of day shines on these cockroaches, boom....

I would rather see the system detonate because of the scenario Ready doesn't wan't to happen because only then will people realize that something needs to be done.  There is only one choice after a complete collapse and that is to completely rebuild.  A total collapse will level the playing field and only then will "WE THE PEOPLE" be able to take back our Republic and shape it the way our forebears intended.

I can rally around that.  I agree that we need the collapse.  If they continue managing things to make it a slower, steady ride down, we will not get the wakeup call we need.  I'd rather have bottom-up rebuild than top-down system management because I think those at the top are the worst parasites in the animal kingdom (talking about the financial elite, not most politicians...as you say, most politicians are just pathetic, self-interested cowards...not the real schemers).  

Speaking of system management, Obama described his qualifications to run the US by saying in the campaign "we've demonstrated our ability to manage large systems."  Every recent president has done this, but it's a horrible view of leadership rather than leading bottom-up action and inspiring people in local communities to provide for themselves.  System management means he thinks his job is to surround himself with Ivy leaguers to be the bureaucrats that run people's lives and they'll suck all the power/wealth up to their level leaving individuals/communities/states with nothing...then the little people become rounding error in the Ivy league spreadsheets...rounding error is discarded.

Now I understand your overall position better--you don't deny that the financial elite manipulates the govt, you just say it won't last in the end.  I agree.  But I hope americans react differently than the germans did after banks destroyed their economy.

 

jpitre's picture
jpitre
Status: Gold Member (Offline)
Joined: Mar 3 2009
Posts: 366
Re: Bernanke rescues economy, gets carping from Congress

Ready ......

I agree with you and have posted on several occasions that the Fed etc. has bought us some time to be better prepared for what is to come when it really hits the fan. I'm still not "ready" and may never be at the rate I'm going -- what with finding new things to prepare for every day. Maybe we are better off to just get on with the job and get it over ASAP. Not that I can do much to speed it up, but then every little bit helps.

I have to remember that I believe in putting all the cards on the table face up so that reality can be exposed for all concerned to examine even if the results could be painful to me and those close. All too often I have seen situations being manipulated by withholding information, telling part truths and falsehoods in the hope of influencing a better/preferred outcome only to find in hindsight that all the screwing around was for naught.

That's how I see it today anyway.

Jim

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Login or Register to post comments