Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

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ds's picture
ds
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Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Is this a safe way to hold gold?

http://goldmoney.com/en/about-us.html

What are the other top recommendations for purchasing gold?

 

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johncorbit
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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

 

Yes. I use it, but it was just brought to my attention that it fits the definition of a "foreign account" as defined by the IRS. Therefore one is required to file by June 30 each year an IRS form f90221 reporting foreign accounts containing as much as $10,000 at any time during the past year. I was unaware of this and find it a negative. I inquired about it to customer service at GoldMoney and to James Turk, the founder of the enterprise. Neither viewed it as a "foreign account." Then I called the phone number associated with that form at the IRS and was told to file the form for all years. The penalty for failure to file is a fine of up to $250,000 and a prison sentence of up to 10 years for each year of failure to file. I am disappointed that this liability to US taxpayers was not presented up front by the management of the enterprise.

Other than that, it is an excellent resource. The company is domiciled in The British Channel Islands (UK), a separate country which operates on Anglo-Saxon law and still has high regard for the individual's vs the government's property rights. The gold itself is stored in a secure vault in either London or Zurich (your choice) and  is audited by a 3rd party auditor annually. One owns gold. It is NOT a bank account. The latter is what confused me about its tax reporting. I had thought that the question was do you hold any foreign bank account etc. Whereas, in fact the question is do you hold any foreign bank or financial account etc.

I have a portion of my bullion there for diversification in the event of bank failure in the US. I have been very happy with the service and the responsiveness of the management. However, as I mentioned, I am disappointed by them not billboarding the necessity of filing that foreign account report on their website for the benefit of all US taxpayers. I am not sure how I will respond to that ultimately.

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DrKrbyLuv
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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

johncorbit - Wow...I hold a goldmoney account and hadn't thought about that at all.  Thanks for the info, I'm going to look into this.

Other than the above, I have been well satisfied with the quality of service from goldmoney.  Here are some opinions that I gave in the subscriber section a little while back:

I decided  around a year ago to move some of my PMs off-shore and opened an allocated account with GoldMoney (James Turk) stored in Zurich, Switzerland (London is a second option).  My thinking was that the US might once again confiscate gold and this also gave me a ticket on the "last plane out."  Another words, if things began spiraling out of control here in the US, I have the potential to relocate to a safe haven elsewhere.

I'm now second guessing my decision because things are spiraling out of control elsewhere as in the US.  For example, is it possible that my PMs could be "seized" or "frozen" in a foreign vault? 

If you decide to use an off-shore repository, I suggest you carefully review the accounting practices and insurance coverage.  I prefer a VIA MAT vault and a third party accounting firm be used in addition to the repository procedures.  My preference for an insurance company was Lloyd's but I now wonder if ANY insurance company will be able to stay afloat in the case of a meltdown.

One rather unique benefit with GoldMoney:

GoldMoney has established a patented currency, goldgrams® (1 goldgram = 1 gram of gold), to give customers the ability to make gold payments to each other electronically. Thus, although our customers can send and receive funds to their GoldMoney account via traditional financial institutions, such as banks and brokerage companies, GoldMoney's utility is not entirely dependent upon the network of such institutions.

This enables GoldMoney account holders to conduct transactions with other account holders.  I thought a "digital gold currency" would take off as people became wary of paper currencies.  For example, I thought that this service would expand and maybe there would be an equivalent to a "debit" card welcomed by many merchants. 

So far it has not happened, and I've read that the reason is that if a PM repository begins to conduct transactions outside of it's facility, it must comply with banking regulations.  If this occurs, the "allocated gold" becomes a liability of the vault which brings counter party risk.  GoldMoney has been sensitive to this fact and they are very careful to avoid any "grey" areas.  For example, I've read (I don't remember where) that another company tried something similar and became "creative" in trying to interface with a credit card company and/or PayPal.  They became entangled in litigation that eventually ruined the company.

GoldMoney's thinking seems to be that eventually the market will come to them, on their terms.  They claim to have over $694 million in customer accounts and Kitco is now offering GoldMoney accounts as part of their service.

Larry

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

 Ahhrrrgg! I too am a Goldmoney account holder, but I wasn't aware of either of the points made by Larry or JohnCorbit. It sounds like things are getting a little too complicated with Goldmoney for my taste. It looks like closing my account and holding bullion might be a whole lot simpler then having to deal with the IRS every year.

Another thread to look at might be: The Potential of Goldmoney.com's new iPhone Application

Though after what Larry said I'm starting to doubt the potential value of the iPhone app.

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Gentlemen,

IMHO, there are no safe havens anywhere in the world. The only safe way to hold gold is to take physical possession right now. Even in the 1930's they didn't go door-to-door looking for gold, although they did confiscate gold stored in safe deposit boxes. So, if you have physical gold/silver in your possession, it's a lot safer to keep it outside of a bank or any other financial institution.

Everything else, such as what Larry and johncorbit described, is just promises to deliver. However, if the system ever collapses, you most likely will  be stuck with a promise and not much else.

A prime example is what happened during and after WWII. Many European families put gold into Swiss banks with the expectation that it would be available to them after the war. And many families never saw that gold again.

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Investors buy gold, as fears of inflation rise

Private investors are buying gold in an attempt to protect themselves against a rise in inflation, trade figures indicate.
By Harry Wallop, Consumer Affairs Editor
Published: 5:00PM BST 12 Jun 2009

Figures from gold brokers suggest that small investors are buying up physical gold, such as bars and coins, as well as so-called "paper gold", such as shares in gold companies and gold funds in far greater quantities than a year ago.

Gold Money is a company that allows investors to buy gold bars or stakes in the bars, which it then stores in vaults on clients' behalf. A year ago it held $352 million worth of customers' gold in its vaults. This has nearly doubled to $694 million by the end of May.

These figures echo official data, which suggests demand for gold has increased substantially over the last 12 months, with some fears there could even be a shortage around the world.

This is despite the global recession, which has pushed down the demand for jewellery, especially in India, the biggest gold jewellery market in the world.

According to the World Gold Council, retail investors around the world bought 131 tonnes of gold in the first three months of this year, an increase of 33 per cent.

The main attraction for investors is that gold is seen as the ultimate hedge against inflation. While the pound or dollar may lose their value, depending on the fortunes of the economy, gold historically goes up in value when inflation gathers pace. That is because everyone from market traders to high-powered investors would prefer to be paid in gold when cash starts to lose its worth.

Many fear that inflation will shoot upwards later this year or next as a result of the extra money that has been pumped into the economy, following the quantitative easing programme undertaken by the Bank of England.

Currently inflation, as measured by the Retail Prices Index, is running at -1.2 per cent. But most experts believe this deflation will soon change to inflation.

Daniel Wills, senior analyst at ETF Securities, said: "Inflation is starting to loom large. Historically, high inflation is associated with high returns for gold.

"It is a key safe haven, a safe store for wealth when paper money decreases in value."

His company's gold inflows – the amount customers are buying – has doubled from $770 million a year ago to $1.5 billion.

The gold price, while very volatile, has climbed from $870 a troy ounce in April to $950 this week.

KKPSTEIN's picture
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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Friendly advice: probably not a good idea to discuss off-shore accounts you hold on a public forum.

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?
KKPSTEIN wrote:

Friendly advice: probably not a good idea to discuss off-shore accounts you hold on a public forum.

Is somebody watching?

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Oh yeah, somebody is watching. To my friends at the IRS: Gold or silver have I none. I only have two dollars my grandmother left me, buried somewhere in a nondescript national cemetery next to an eternal flame.

But seriously.......NOTHING is safe off shore anymore. Mention off shore to the IRS, be it an account, a trust or whatever and the IRS will have you standing in front of a Federal judge until they get to the bottom of it if you aren't filing on it.

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?
KKPSTEIN wrote:

Friendly advice: probably not a good idea to discuss off-shore accounts you hold on a public forum.

Is it me KKPTEIN or do you sometimes get the errie feeling that the US has become East Germany or the USSR circa 1968. I feel like I live in a security state and not a free nation.

Maybe I'm paranoid.

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Pete,

Unfortunately, I think the word 'paranoid' is no longer restricted to referring only to the mentally ill.

It has now entered our daily lexicon for the very reasons you state.

What a sad commentary on our society and our country.

elsinga's picture
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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Here in the Netherlands they are setting up deals with the (former) tax havens. The tax havens inform the dutch government about fund held by dutch people... One of the countries is... tadaaa! Switzerland!

I too think that physically holding bullion is about the only way to keep it safe (and out of the luring eyes of the powers to be).

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Going back to the Golden Rule, "He who has the Gold make the Rules"

 

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

I bought silver at Goldmoney.com because I wanted silver bullion in a Swiss vault, committed only to me, but they charge a high commission.  For Gold bullion I used BullionVault.com --excellent online service at low cost, and guaranteed gold held exclusively for you in a Swiss Vault (or London or New York) run by Via Mat. I verified their validity before buying and confirmed it through the US CFTC gold desk.  I have since seen their name praised many times in the gold buying community.  If BullionVault also sold silver I would have gone with them for the silver bullion.

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Sam said:  IMHO, there are no safe havens anywhere in the world. The only safe way to hold gold is to take physical possession right now. Even in the 1930's they didn't go door-to-door looking for gold, although they did confiscate gold stored in safe deposit boxes. So, if you have physical gold/silver in your possession, it's a lot safer to keep it outside of a bank or any other financial institution.

Sam, I agree and appreciate you helping me come to this conclusion.

Larry

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

I totally agree with You:  "He who has the Gold make the Rules"

May be the solution has borned already. Have You heard about this wonderful concept?

 

http://jwspaidtosave.com/goldforsave

It gives back the gold to ordinery people and can help to survive...

 

What do You think? Could it work?

 

 

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Hi Pete, Yes, in many ways it certainly does.  I could go on and on in great detail about things I've noticed over the years to the current situation and there has been a great switch from America the Free.  I don't think you're paranoid.  It is easier to control people who don't question authority or fear it respectively.  From Waco to 911, what have we learned?  Any freedom we perceive now is just an illusion.  Did I just say that?  Uh oh... the thought police are at my door.  Save yourselves!  Sell my gold and silver for me... ;) 

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Hello to everyone who wishes to purchase precious metals.

I am actually the customer support manager at goldmoney.com and I have read some of your blogs in regard to owning a GoldMoney Holding.

I note there are several queries which need addressing.

First query is tax reporting and in the US. As you are aware, this subject is extremely difficult to answer as the US tax rules are not easy to follow. GoldMoney cannot give tax advice as you have probably been told already. However, I can show you a response from our Founder James Turk who responded independently which maybe of help.

Message from James Turk:

"Dear .............

In regards to reporting requirements, customers do not have an "account" at GoldMoney. They have a "Holding", which is clearly noted in our User Agreement.

http://goldmoney.com/user-agreement.html

This distinction between an account and a Holding is important, and
............ (customer's name) alludes to the difference when he distinguishes between share
certificates in an account compared to physical share certificates you
own. Our customers own physical metal, a tangible asset that
comprises bars clearly identified and numbered, which are regularly
audited. Tangible assets are different from financial assets, i.e.,bank deposits.

As for the reporting requirements, I cannot give tax advice because
that is not my area of expertise. I will only note .......... point that
there is much uncertainty surrounding it. But the regulation does
seem aimed at reporting financial assets, and not tangible assets,
which seems to be the point (customer) is making."

As you will note, James Turk alludes that it may not be reportable but every individual no matter where they reside should seek tax advice in their home jurisdiction. I would be interested to hear if anyone has indeed seeked tax advice and what was the advice they were given?

Therefore, in my opinion it is disappointing that the US authorities do not make this important point clear.

Another query that regularly comes up is confiscation. GoldMoney has positioned itself to offer the best possible protection under current international law.

GoldMoney is not a US company, and therefore do not fall under US jurisdiction. GoldMoney is based in Jersey, Channel Islands, we operate under the laws and regulations as stipulated there. Though it is small and relatively unknown, Jersey is an 800+ year old sovereign country and has become a major financial center because it relies upon Anglo-Saxon common law, which puts property rights at the forefront. See our Privacy Policy:

http://goldmoney.com/en/privacy-policy.html

Secondly, because our administrative offices are located in Jersey, the vault operators are not given access to any of our customer records.

Our customers can store their metal in London or Zurich or split their holdings and put it in both vaults. Neither the UK nor Switzerland have a history of confiscating assets. While circumstances can of course change, this established track record in these countries gives comfort. We intend to add more vault locations in the future, giving our customers further opportunity to diversify their metal in yet more countries.

In our view, the risk of confiscation is higher in certain countries. For example, the US has confiscated gold once before, so the risk of confiscation would be considered much higher in the US than Canada, for example, which has never confiscated gold. Similarly, gold has never been confiscated in Switzerland. Gold was confiscated once before in England, by Charles II in the 17th century. Given that it was so long ago and before the Glorious Revolution of 1688 and what has since evolved into a constitutional monarchy, the risk of confiscation in England is small, but probably somewhat greater than, say, Switzerland, where gold has never been confiscated.

The point of this analysis is that Switzerland is probably a safer place to store gold, but also, there is no way of avoiding the risk of government.

Because gold confiscation is a theoretical "what if" question at the moment, it is impossible to confirm how a confiscation order would play out in the future. There is some certainty about how it would play out today though, which is basically, your rights are protected under Jersey law. It seems unlikely that in the future Jersey would cave-in to maintaining this basic rule of law, but obviously we cannot guarantee that outcome.

There is no concept of asset seizure in Jersey, as there now is in the States. Also, due process is still a basic right in Jersey, meaning that everyone is entitled to their day in court in order to defend any allegations made against them. This right applies, as I understand it, to anyone with a business relationship with a Jersey company, so GoldMoney's customers do have access to the Jersey courts for this reason. Again, I would hope that this basic principle of law will not be undermined in Jersey in the future.

I think the most important point is that, first, GoldMoney is dedicated to serving its customers and meeting their needs. Thus, we are always acting within our customers' best interests. If Jersey law were to change in the future so that we were no longer able to operate under a reliable rule of law that protects property, then it is certain that GoldMoney would consider other options, such as locating to where the rule of law and property rights were still respected.

In terms of some 'big picture' guidance, there are pros and cons to every alternative with regard to gold/silver storage. The decision that everyone needs to make is to how best serve your own needs, given these different alternatives.

For example, burying gold in your backyard is one alternative form of gold storage, but it comes with risks as well as advantages. Similarly, GoldMoney had advantages, and importantly, we aim to mitigate any risks (for example, with the audits completed by our auditor, having the metal insured, operating in a country with a reliable rule of law, etc). We therefore believe that GoldMoney can provide a useful service and play an important part in everyone's investment strategy.

In regards to insurance, all the gold, silver and platinum stored in the vaults in London and Zurich are insured against commercial risks. They are not, however, insured from acts of government, including war, nuclear attack, civil strife, confiscation and the like. We researched insurance against government confiscation with the insurance industry when launching GoldMoney and learned that insurance against government risks was not obtainable from any insurance company. However, we believe we have done everything we possibly can for our customers to protect their assets against such events.

I personally believe governments will contact their citizens rather than international companies because they have no jurisdiction over offshore companies. Therefore, I believe it is important individuals adhere to their own tax laws for best practice.

In the 1930's, US citizens who held their gold outside the US were safe from handing their gold to the government because the gold was held outside the US governments jurisdiction. The citizens who held their gold in the US were not so fortunate. So it is an important distinction from owning gold in your home country (back of your garden) and storing your gold offshore.

No one can predict what governments may or may not do in the future and we can only speculate. However, we have gone to great lengths to safeguard our customer assets under current international law.

I hope the above helps and look forward to any feedback.

All the best!

James Mitchell
Senior Relationship Manger
GoldMoney

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Is the above repetitive post what you would call a spam post?  I'm kind of new to this computer thread stuff.

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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

I am afraid it is my mistake. I cannot find the delete button to cancel the duplicated replies.

I have sent a message to customer support unless anyone else knows the answer to delete posts?

Thx!

James

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Trustable
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Re: Anyone tried goldmoney.com?

Hi all,

 

we just set up a comparison website for vaulted gold. There is some more information about GoldMoney as well as their competitors, including a price calculator:

 

http://www.trustablegold.com

 

I would be very happy about feedback and further discussions.

 

Best,

Mark

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GoldMoney.com

My friend has a GoldMoney account. She wants me (and my family) to be the beneficiary of the account.

GoldMoney states that no one can be a beneficiary of her account. They suggest I open account so she could transfer her gold/money upon her death. doesn't make sense to me.

I am not interested in opening an offshore acount and reporting to the IRS and filing all these forms. Anybody had any similar experience with designating a beneficiary on the account ?

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sand_puppy
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GoldMoney Account

 

I have had very good experience with GoldMoney.com.   I've never tried to set up a beneficiary, however.

Reporting to the IRS is quite simple with a half page form that simply lists your identifying information, the name and address of the bank and your largest balance during the year.  http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f90221.pdf    It is simple (though reporting anything to the IRS is unpleasant!)  

GoldMoney has a couple of rules about procedures for transferring money to prevent money laundering that you have to work with.  When I understood the purpose of these few rules, working with them seemed reasonable in my mind.

Opening an account is not difficult, but does require a trip to Kinko's to scan your driver's license, birth certificate and a utility bill that can then be emailed to GoldMoney after filling out the application online.

I became familiar with GoldMoney through Catherine Austin Fitts who knows James Turk personally and has worked with him for many years.  That personal connection was what helped me feel comfortable with the arrangement.  I trust them.

It is my impression that diversification is very valuable when faced with an uncertain future.  GoldMoney is a way to own a specific number of grams of physical gold, but not need to have physical possession or concern ones self with storage or shipping.  The gold can be sold at the "spot price" at any hour of the day or night and the next business day the funds can be wired to your bank, or to any one of several countries and converted to any one of many currencies. (For example, you could ask them to sell 300 grams of your gold holdings and have the funds wired to a specific bank in Italy where you would collect it in person in Lira the next business day.)  The bank is headquartered in the British Channel Islands, a small sovereign nation, while the gold is physically stored in one of several vaults in located in different nations (London, Zurich and Singapore, as I recall).

It is very convenient.  My experience has been uniformly good.

Money that is outside of the USA would be much harder to confiscate by US or state tax authorities.  (Anyone who has had a state tax board seize a bank account over suspected unpaid taxes will understand this concern!!)

All in all, I recommend GoldMoney as a way to store a portion of one's savings.

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tagriverdi
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goldmoney.com

Sorry for my English. My experience with this company was terrible. I opened my account, made a deposit and received several transfers from other participants. Then I made a request for a card. And received an email message:

"> Due to actions performed on your Goldmoney account that violate our "Terms

> of Service":https://www.goldmoney.com/terms-of-service#/, your account will

> remain suspended. Any funds deposited to your account have been returned to
> their original source.
>
> Kind regards,
>
 

> Craig"

I wrote to the support service three times. I never received a reply. I lost my time and my money. My advice is never contact this company.

 

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Tamara-11974
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Posts: 1
The company Goldmoney really
The company Goldmoney really disappointed me! The administration of the company blocks the accounts of its customers for no reason, without explaining to customers about the reasons for blocking their accounts! I really do not recommend contacting this terrible company!
Personally, to me, my friend transferred me some gold as a gift and after 1 hour they blocked my account! I wrote to the support team, and I was told that I had allegedly violated something, but I absolutely did not do anything except order a card! The company treats its customers terribly! Do not mess with them!
People! Be carefull ! Do not waste your time on this company!

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