Any ideas on a haven?

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strabes's picture
strabes
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Any ideas on a haven?

I personally see no reason to stay in the US. I don't want to live under martial law, nor do I want to live in a revolution.  I'm all for a revolutionary change, but why fight it when I can sit it out on the beach drinking Corona?  No country has been as successful as the US at shutting down every rebellion it's ever had, so it would be a hellish fight.  Plus, most people in the US are now passive subjects, not citizens, so I don't see a revolution succeeding for a long long time since peer pressure will be to remain passive.

So, anybody have thoughts on the best haven?

I've thought of several but none look perfect since the whole world is stuck in this deflationary collapse that will reach horrific levels in a few years.  But many places look better than the US because they don't have such a massively powerful standing army.  I'm also looking for tighter sense of community, which is pretty easy to find outside the US (for this I prefer latino cultures because they seem more inviting than other white cultures, though I'd be interested in your opinions on this).

- Mexico - corrupt, but a pathetic army and police force that would not be able to suppress the people.  Close to the US for visiting family/friends.

- Panama - decent banking center, no standing army, great surf, laid back.  Still fairly close to the US.

- Uruguay - Montevideo is great

- New Zealand - geographically isolated, most beautiful place in the world, great climate/land for sustainable life.

- Switzerland - ideal for physical safety, financial safety, but too expensive and a very insular community that generally keeps outsiders on the outside. 

 

ckessel's picture
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Strabes,

In a collapsing society I think you would have as much to fear from the dislocated citizenry as the standing Army.  The best strategy I can imagine is a local community of like minded people. And the best way to develop that is by taking action to inform and educate. Not easy but no harder than moving to another location ...... where in my estimation you would have to do the same thing anyway.

That said, Easter Island may be workable and when transport by sailing ship returns you would still be off the beaten path so to speak.

Coop

Thomas Hedin's picture
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

How about we work on switching our debt money system to a wealth money system as Byron Dale proposes?

 Part 1

Part 2

I'm the guy making these videos, and I'm all ears to whatever solutions (that can work) can possiblely be dreamed up.  SO FAR this solution makes the most sense to me.  Money put into circulation free of debt.

 

gyrogearloose's picture
gyrogearloose
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

So many people with so many ideas on how a different monetary system ( most using some form of created money ) all seem to forget that it is humans in charge of the "presses" and so will inevitably run them.....

 

Secondly, no monetary system no matter how sound will not fix the "problem" of peak oil, or peak everything.....

Thomas Hedin's picture
Thomas Hedin
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Well how about we stop sitting around watching this monetary system fall apart and do something to start fixing it?

 The way I see it, a debt free monetary system sounds better than this system we have now.

 Do you have any ideas?

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?
ckessel wrote:

In a collapsing society I think you would have as much to fear from the dislocated citizenry as the standing Army.

Au contraire dude!!!!  ANARCHY is easy to deal with...a well armed citizen can handle it...I'd love for the system to devolve to bands of criminals and general anarchy...that would be the basis for establishing a new, real, bottom-up, localized civilization.  On the other hand, government TYRANNY is not so easy when that tyranny is enforced through the most advanced military in the history of the world and the most fiercely armed state and city police forces.   

gyrogear wrote:

So many people with so many ideas on how a different monetary system ( most using some form of created money ) all seem to forget that it is humans in charge of the "presses" and so will inevitably run them.....

Secondly, no monetary system no matter how sound will not fix the "problem" of peak oil, or peak everything..... 

This is very wrong.  The monetary system is THE problem.  It's the cause of our over-population, over-growth, insatious corporations, over use of resources, the numbing of life, the hollowing out of our societies, pernicious inflation, punishing deflation, etc etc etc.  And it's wrong to say any monetary system wouldn't work.  

Hi Thomas, I'm totally with you...I want a new system and I want to put the criminals behind our debt-based system (the Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Warburgs, Loebs) in prison.  But gyro's opinion here is why I don't think it's worth fighting...yet.  I think the initial phase of chaos is going to be really bad before the masses wake up from their slumber.  So bad that I might not survive in the government crackdown because I would fight it.  So I need to be out of country waiting until the population wakes the hell up and realizes that the Fed and the fractional reserve banking system needs to be overthrown in a revolution.  Then I'll come back and join you all.

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Wow - this is indeed sad talk :-(

Whilst I am not an Amercian and I detest what greed I think the American system has brought upon the world (and the world have accepted - it takes two!) I find it sad to think that people want to desert their fellow citizens when they could in fact be the light that the country will need to pick itself back up again.

Whilst I do not know Amercian history very well, I do know that it became a great nation because people rolled up their sleeves and worked together - I can't see why the same cannot be done again?

I come from one of those countries the OP posted but now live in another country - yes, I am taking out citizenship for my children in my country of birth but I will only retreat should conditions get so bad that anarchy results - I made a move to another country because it was better than where I was - I will attempt to stand up for the community I have now become a part of rather than run to where the grass is greener.

Yes, one must weigh up all the relevant factors and should food become a real issue or social breakdown etc then one must have plans but I don't plan to desert where I am living just yet - not until I've attempted to become part of the solution at least.

We live in some of the most exciting times ever - yes, and the most scariest - but lets face it, when in your lifetime have you had the oppertunity to see a greedy selfish, self-centered system be brought to it's knee's and the population be given another chance to start something new?

12 months ago I was discussing with friends how greed and corruption was rampent and that the system could not go on forever and that one day, it would collapse just as Rome and other empires did but I never thought it would occur in my lifetime - I think it's rather exciting in a strange way.

I came to another country with nothing - just a bag of clothes and established myself and it can be done again - having nothing really isn't that bad actually - you find it helps you focus on what's important and for me now, that's my kids.

It's not all over yet - we all have a lot of work to do so lets not desert our fellow man just yet.

:-)

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

It's more the British system than the American system that has ruined the world...America is now just a puppet of the masters in England.  And by British system I'm talking about the rule of the super-rich Rothschild banking clan which drives the worldwide greed. They control the US via the Federal Reserve.  So it took them 130 years to get control of the US again, but the royal family of England has owned it since 1913.

America actually started as a great country because patriots told the corrupt monarchy in England to screw off and they went to establish a new land because they had no hope of changing the tyrannical system in England.

Unfortunately Americans are in the same situation I'm afraid now.  1 - The majority of the population is sheep.  They have been disarmed, literally and psychologically, through generations of manipulative programming through mass media and government-run indoctrination called "schools."  2 - While they've been disarmed, the government has armed itself like no government has before and police forces have become increasingly militarized under the guise of fighting terrorism as they have been advised the US Army's Delta Force.  3 - Our politicians are stooges of the Fed system.  Both parties are a joke.  There is no leadership.  Ron Paul is one exception...but look how the masses ignore him because the media portrays him as a doofus.  4 - Obama has plans for a domestic security force with a couple hundred thousand people.  What is that?  That was called the SS in Germany.  With that kind of neighborhood tattle-tale system, patriots in the US are in danger of being rounded up as "terrorists" and put in prison before a rebellion can happen. 5 - People on gun purchase lists will be targeted at some point in this country if the government gets a whiff of an uprising.  6 - The media controls a majority of the population's mind still and will fight any good effort to fix the system.  7 - Our states and towns are a joke with no real leadership so they don't stand up to the tyrannical national government.  This means there is no framework for fighting the system.

I could go on and on about how it is delusional to wait around in the hopes of fixing things when the government is going to crack down like crazy to keep people from doing anything to fix it.  

But like I said, the establishment will eventually collapse...it's over...that's a great thing! THAT will be the time "for all good men to come to the aid of their country."  Until that time, however, getting in the way of the establishment is just suicide.

machinehead's picture
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?
strabes wrote:

- Mexico - corrupt, but a pathetic army and police force
that would not be able to suppress the people. Close to the US for
visiting family/friends.

- Panama - decent banking center, no standing army, great surf, laid back. Still fairly close to the US.

- Uruguay - Montevideo is great

To
generalize a bit from this list, Third World countries with decent food
and energy balances are promising. Energy deficits are going to be a
serious problem for Mexico, which may lead to food deficits as well.
Farther south, though, both Brazil and Argentina are nearly
self-sufficient in energy and food. Uruguay, sandwiched between them,
produces plenty of food and also serves as their free-banking center.
So the whole region has potential.

I lean toward the Third World
for its lower cost of living, and the fact that governments which are
less rich can't afford the massive apparati of privacy intrusion which
are being adopted in rich countries. Consequently, they feel freer,
despite lacking some of the theoretical constitutional protections we
have (or rather HAD).

As you point out, Latin societies are
very community-based, in a way that American society hasn't been since
the 1950s. These countries also tend not to get involved in destructive
foreign wars that NATO countries do. There is no perfect haven, but I
would avoid densely-populated, energy-deficit rich countries, which
takes out the U.S., Japan and most of Europe from consideration.

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

As I return to this site after a few days, I find great interest in this discussion. It says a lot about the American attitude in general....that we  think we have such an inherent right to just stroll into any country we feel like. About 20 years ago, my husband & I investigated both New Zealand & Sweden as countries to resettle in (also Canada in more recent years). In all cases, we would NOT be excepted as potential citizens unless we had a six-figure assets & were under a certain age, were married, etc. Probably restrictions are more stringent today. Now if you wanted to go to a country & stay illegally, that's another thing, but who wants to live a life hiding out from authorities? So my take on all this is most countries DON'T WANT US! I agree with ckessel....participate in a local community. That is the best security you can create.

Treah

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

My choices would be New Zealand or Thailand.

New Zealand because it is far away from the potential war troubles, a good place to educate your children and overall not too crowded. Good infrastructure and lots of land available. When the crisis is mild this would be the best for our circumstances. Visa requirements are high.

 If the crisis is very bad, i think Thailand would be better. Lots of food, and very low energy needs. No heating or cooling necessary. Food almost on your doorstep, als a good infrastructure and people that are used to live in small communities all their live. Big cities excluded. When a crisis hits them they just go back to their parents or other family to help or live of the farms. Schooling is not so great, homeschooling would be an option. Visa requirements are very low.

Anyone who wants to know something about Thailand, ask and i will answer. 

 

joe2baba's picture
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

sorry gyro but i am an english major

and the most popular mistake in the english language(such as it is)

is the ddouble nnegative.

so do you mean to say we are screwed or are not screwed

strabes's picture
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?
treah wrote:

I find great interest in this discussion. It says a lot about the American attitude in general....that we  think we have such an inherent right to just stroll into any country we feel like

What are you talking about?  It's quite the opposite...people think they can stroll over here...and of course our government just lets them stroll on in...part of the nwo plan to destabilize and create dissent/fear in americans.

On the contrary, I don't think I have an inherent right at all.  I'm evaluating different options based on their requirements.  I have the ability to go almost anywhere because those countries "want me" at least as determined by their statutes.  I know when I get there that I'll be an outsider, that I'll need to obey the law, that I'll be a visitor in someone else's home, that I'll never have full citizenship rights, etc.  Compare that to the folks coming here who demand full participation, stage political protests, demand money from US citizens (and they get a LOT).   

 

Machinehead and Brainless - thanks for your thoughts.  That's what I'm looking for...just wanted to start a conversation about pros/cons of different options.   

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Echoing other contributors, if I had to go anywhere then it would be New Zealand or Sweden too.

I worked in New Zealand a couple of years ago and would go back tomorrow except for family and friends. My father was unwell while we were there and it felt a long way from 'home'. That said, it is a beautiful country and from my experience full of great people with a can-do attitude. I think its a politically stable, open and accessible society. And arguably the oldest democracy on the planet as it was the first country to give women the vote.

I go to Sweden every year to see family and its another great place to live, for many of the same reasons as NZ. Just substitute ice hockey for rugby as your sporting passion.

But I also agree with ckessel and Treah - the future is a local, sustainable community, wherever it be. If you really have to go, then go, but if at all possible seek out/create and contribute to a local community.  

Freddy 

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Well, having been to most European countries and Asian countries, I can honestly say I'd rather ride it out in a place close to where I am now. 

 If anyone is really considering a move however, you need to do it quickly.  Once things start falling apart for real, how open do you think other countries will be to mass exodus?  You think that our border patrol sucks and only rounds up people and ships them back....most third world and other places that don't want people immigrating to their countries handle it alot more sternly.

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

strabes -

Just my $.02 - it don't think we will end up in a Mad Max scenario overnight.  I see a gradual decay and slide into a shattered state and people being forced to turn to co-op communities.  It will be messy, some will live, some will die, some will try to forcibly take over co-ops - some will be successful and others will die trying.

That said - Colorado's Front Range has a lot to offer.   Lots of open arable land, game and plenty of year round sun exposure to facilitate solar, plus the katabatic winds rolling off the Rockies will power windmills.  And if you are away from Denver, the population density is fairly thin.

Something to consider.

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Safe haven money: use stamp scrip to buy bad mortgages and shares in failing companies; use the income out of stamp sales to cover and diminish the losses. Everybody who uses the scrip pays a little for the bad investments made in the past, but when a crisis doesn't give one a choice, one has to accept anyway. It's another bailout the banking system doesn't deserve, but at least it will disgust them.

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?
Dogs in a pile wrote:

Just my $.02 - it don't think we will end up in a Mad Max scenario overnight.  I see a gradual decay and slide into a shattered state and people being forced to turn to co-op communities.  It will be messy, some will live, some will die, some will try to forcibly take over co-ops - some will be successful and others will die trying.

I generally agree, but the feds will step in once the gradual process starts.  They will try to prevent it.  They will be the ones trying to "forcibly take over" and stopping the natural evolution of society.  They will choose tyranny over what they think is anarchy.  Unfortunately they've been conditioned to fear local control and they see it as anarchy.  Of course we know they're wrong...it's not anarchy...it's just an active citizenry.  The citizenry will eventually win which will result in us finally working out a new society based on a new sense of local community, but only after a lot of oppression.   

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Ok.  I asked about international havens...but there's currently a less than 50/50 chance of me choosing that option because I do want to participate in the solution and because I love community and want to stay. 

 What are people's thoughts on the best place to be domestically??  I don't think there's a right answer here, but I think it's worth chatting about.  

- front range?  Dogs-in-pile suggested it.  I agree with all his listed factors, but I think the population has become too dense.  The front range used to be one of my sales territories and it felt like too many people in the money-chasing rat race who wouldn't know how to take care of themselves in a collapse.

- Montana? I have a rental in Bozeman.  I went there initially as a haven from corporate life.  Was awesome.  But after a while felt isolated.  But that's precisely what I want in TSHTF.  Small community.  Hardy types.  Lots of sun.  It has a coop community already.  There's a good amount of patriot types, but there's also a good amount of displaced Californians who wouldn't have a clue.  :)  The only thing not ideal is the cold and short growing season. 

- Illinois?  (actually anywhere in the industrial midwest or the northeast) I'm only listing this because it's where family is.  otherwise, I think it would be horrible in TSHTF.  My family is in down-state, nowhere near Chicago, but it's still a densely populated area compared to the intermountain region.  Plus midwesterners are generally trained to be passive, respect authority too much, trust what they hear from the media, give too much benefit of the doubt to police, etc (not to generalize about everybody, but that's my experience as a kid and when I visit now).  In other words, I think tyranny would be too easy for the government in this region.

- the old south?  I have rental properties in Tennessee.  The south is densely populated like the midwest, but people there have a history of independence, men are armed, I think they would resist oppressive force from the national govt. 

- the northwest?  I'm in seattle now...I won't be anywhere close to a big city as TSHTF gets closer, but could stay in the region.

 

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

strabes -

The only real way to avoid the (likely) future of heavy-handed martial law by federalized police/army in the US, is to really, really, push the Constitution - hard, and follow the 2nd Amendment, which specifies that the State Governors are to keep in a state of ready, "the militia of the several states".

The "militia of the several states" are our true "homeland security" forces, and these militias, under control of the State Governors, are all male citizens between the ages of 18 and 45, each individually armed.

This is the US Constitution speaking.

Further, today, each and every Serviceman swears an allegiance to protect and follow the US Constitution, and most (particularly under a voluntary enlistment) truly believe in THAT.   They are sworn to protect it against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic. 

Many if not most Servicemen, understand that martial law may place them in a position where they may need to seriously re-evaluate just WHO domestic enemies might be.  

In other words, most understand that they are not to just follow a tyrant (Federal or otherwise), nor to leaders of armies and police forces by which they are dictated to.

(On the other hand, if our military and police forces EVER change their allegiance oath, then TSHTF will be full-on).

Until then, the best hope, it seems, is to push for the re-establishment of the lawful, constitutional "militia of the several states", in full accordance with the 2nd Amendment.

Instead of Homeland Security being dictated by a Federalized coup of the Executive branch, the Governors in each State are required to keep such forces under their control as the "militia of the several states".

Homeland Security offices and officers should never have fallen under control of the Federal government, and they are not all...yet.

Instead, most State Troopers, County Sheriffs, and Municipal Police might, under TSHTF conditions, consider themselves "local" citizens first, and jackboots of the Federalized police second.

If you haven't visited this site, you should:

http://www.committeesofsafety.org/

or Dr Edwin Vieira's site:

http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin187.htm.

It may not be too late....yet.   

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

GDon - I love this stuff, but unfortunately I think we're WAY past the constitution being able to save us.  it hasn't been followed for 95 years.  state governments are nothing now but administrative localities for the national empire government. can you name 1 governor who even understands what the militia really is, let alone 1 who would step up to the plate and lead it appropriately like the Constitution demands?  and when it comes to citizens, most people are passive subjects, not armed citizens, and they've been programmed to think any citizen with a weapon is a would-be "terrorist."  I guarantee they'd call 911 if they saw somebody riding down the road with an exposed rifle like men do in Switzerland.  

I'm an ex-military officer.  the oath is not really followed.  the military has become a tool for the executive branch to pursue its agenda.  the phrase "foreign and domestic" hasn't applied for a long time.  they don't know what domestic enemy is.  if it were followed, the military would march on the Federal Reserve building and shut it down and demand the government put a real currency in place.  military officers are programmed to be completely passive, not allowed to have an opinion, required to follow any/all directives from civilian leadership.  they engaged in domestic law enforcement under Clinton.  they'll do so again.  the Army War College is intensively studying how to institute martial law.  some officers consider citizens to be threats as Delta Force has been fighting citizens in raids in Texas, fighting the staged protest in Seattle, advising how to attack the Waco compound, etc, etc.  I'm willing to bet some black ops units have been corrupted since Clinton.  any secret organization is in danger of that...the CIA and NSA can easily turn against citizens as well.  they got the right officers in place who are willing to serve as the praetorian guard for a corrupt president.  do you happen to know about the survey sent by the Clinton administration to Marine officers and some special units that asked if they'd be willing to engage citizens with force is ordered to do so?  the answers to those surveys were filed I guarantee for future use.  that's all it takes to corrupt law enforcement or military...find the right leaders who will be willing to collude with a tyrant and "game over!"  that's what Clinton did in Arkansas...the state police were his praetorian guard.  that's how the city of Chicago operates...basically a mafia organization.  it's not hard to corrupt our once venerable institutions like the military.  over the last 15 years, there has been a quiet purge of the older leadership, so younger "hooah" types are more prevalent in the Marines, black ops, etc.  that alone is extremely destabilizing.  plus, the good old leaders will be sent to run wars around the world, while the corruptible units and younger types will be kept stateside to oppress citizens.  that's how Hitler did it.

my only hope is that enough good citizen-minded military officers remain in place.  I'm pretty sure the conventional army has enough good leadership that it would stop itself before escalating to domestic warfare.  But all it takes is a few well-placed folks in units like black ops to keep the conventional army in check.  That's how praetorian guards operate.  That's how Saddam kept his army from killing him.  That's how Hitler kept the incredibly professional German army from interfering with his domestic terrorism.   

 

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

also, I don't really agree with this.  first, I think state police are already extensions of the Feds...they aren't connected to local community...they are the jackboots and have been increasingly militarized for 15 years or so.  when it comes to towns/counties, are you aware of what Delta Force did in Texas in the 90's as they went around looking for towns/counties that would go along with Federal control?  a couple good police chiefs and sheriffs refused, but most of the officials went along with it.  and that's Texas!  I imagine it would 100% compliance anywhere east of the Mississippi River except in the Old South.

GDon wrote:

Instead, most State Troopers, County Sheriffs, and Municipal Police might, under TSHTF conditions, consider themselves "local" citizens first, and jackboots of the Federalized police second.

gyrogearloose's picture
gyrogearloose
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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Oops.... typo. Dashed that off in a hurry and the "not" certainly does not belong in my comment about the problem of peak oil.

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?

strabes -

The "Power of the Purse" and the "Power of the Sword", have indeed, been largely handed-over to opponents of individual liberty, and this started long before 1913.

However, minus the tattered parchment on which America's laws and philosophy were founded - i.e., the Constitution, there is nothing else which powers the light of freedom from tyranny, and nothing to turn to "to make the legal case" for liberty.  

Maybe it's unlucky for would-be despots, that Americans at least "think" that they are free, and perhaps, just perhaps, in some future event that they no longer "believe" this, they may awaken to just how far their liberties have sunk.

No doubt - tyrants, usurpers and despots have been working on securing for their own engrandisement, the Purse and the Sword of America for generations.

All the same, convincing those already holding "the ultimate power" (as Mao would say) - i.e., the men and women already working in city, county, state and federal "policing" jurisdictions, is the only feasible disruption to the probability of future domestic tyranny.

You may be aware, that over 9 States have entered bills into their state legislatures over the last month or so, reconfirming the 9th & 10th Amendments - i.e., that the Federal government does not have jurisdiction outside of it's original prescription.   While not having much teeth, I'm frankly awestruck that this has even happened (Arizona, Hawaii, Montana, Michigan, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Washington and Pennsylvania).  Up to 20 more states are formulating similar legislation.

True - maybe it's all for naught.  But communication and information are the only seeds left in the bag.

 

 

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Re: Any ideas on a haven?
Treah wrote:

About 20 years ago, my husband & I investigated both
New Zealand & Sweden as countries to resettle in (also Canada in
more recent years). In all cases, we would NOT be excepted as potential
citizens unless we had a six-figure assets & were under a certain
age, were married, etc. Probably restrictions are more stringent
today.

So my take on all this is most countries DON'T WANT US! I agree
with ckessel....participate in a local community. That is the best
security you can create.

You are quite right about the
stringent requirements of emigration destinations such as New Zealand,
Canada, and most other rich countries. Generally they are looking
either for a multi-million-dollar job-creating investment, or skilled
people who still have a good part of their working career ahead.

But on the contrary, most Central
and South American countries offer pension visas. This means that if
you can demonstrate a secure source of income -- which might be Social
Security, an employer pension or IRA/Keogh, an annuity, or even a
securities account stuffed with T-notes, you can qualify for a
pensioner visa. The required monthly income ranges from as low as $500
up to $3,000 or so, depending on the country. Last time I checked,
Brazil was on the high end of the range, somewhere around $2,500 a
month.

This is another reason to take a look around in Latin
America. Unlike the rich world, most Latin countries DO welcome
immigrants who bring money into the country, and don't need to work.
Costa Rica, Panama, Brazil and Argentina are specific examples, but
there are plenty of others.

Nime's picture
Nime
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 29 2009
Posts: 88
Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Interesting that NZ is brought up here many times. Aren't you afraid its export-dependent economy might go down too? Also, anyone has any thoughts about places like Portugal and Chile?

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Re: Any ideas on a haven?

This has been a recurrent topic in our home (my wife and I discussed it again yesterday afternoon), much to this displeasure, or at least, confusion, of our three sons. Whether to stay in the United States, or leave, and if we leave, what destination would be a better choice?

The fact that this topic keeps coming up means that we, obviously, haven't found our answer. But, I'll share with you our thought process, thus far.

Our reasons for considering leaving, like others, is partly out of concern for physical and fiscal safety, to include a major concern for the long term well-being of our children, but I have to admit that there is a certain self-indulgent escapism involved; the romance of a new and potentially more "exotic" locale. Sipping a Corona on the beach may not be the best reason, but I understand the motivation.

Our reasons for staying in the United States include familiarity, closeness to family and friends, and an admittedly strained allegiance to my fellow citizens. If ever there was a time for good leadership, commonality of purpose, and closeness of community, this is it. It is an exciting time, albeit a scary one, and I don't yet know whether or not we want to be as active a part of the needed change.

While we haven't made a decision, our leading contenders for places to potentially relocate are New Zealand and Canada. We also toy with Hawaii repeatedly (specifically, the Big Island), as my wife and I have both lived there, and still have friends there. New Zealand and Canada are both attractive for the same reasons others have mentioned, so I will not repeat those. New Zealand is a long way from family, so that is its principle drawback. Canada, and in particular, British Columbia, is probably our current favored "escape plan". Some of the South America countries are also appealing, although I would have to drastically improve upon my two years of college Spanish. I have participated in medical missions in Bolivia, and have friends there, but the political environment and burgeoning civil unrest is concerning.

As a physician, I have a skill set that is appealing to most countries (Costa Rica, however, will not accept physicians who want to actively practice, not wanting them to displace native physicians), so our options are not as limited as they might be for some others. Still, I will be needed here, also. Tough choice. In the end, I suspect we'll stay in Iowa.

ccpetersmd's picture
ccpetersmd
Status: Martenson Brigade Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 12 2008
Posts: 799
Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Nime, I do like Chile. Beautiful country, nice people, great wine! I don't know much about their political or economic condition, but it would be a country I would check into further, if we got serious about actually making a move.

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Why not stay and fight to get our country back?

We don't have to concede - we can still win.  What do I mean by winning?

- Eliminate the Non-federal Reserve Bank - prosecute them under RICO laws and sieze all of their assets.

- Terminate all debt that they are owed.

- Impeach and prosecute all politicians who usurped our Constitution.

Imagine the freedom and prosperity that would be gained by throwing out the central bankers.  According to Benjamin Franklin, this was the very reason for fighting our great war of independence.  Having usurped British Parliament, "the Bank of England" required the
American colonists to adopt a currency subject to as much as 30 percent
annual interest. Franklin  explained the
principal cause of the American Revolution:

"We would have gladly borne the little tax on tea
and other matters, had it not been that they took from us our money,
which created great unemployment and dissatisfaction. Within a year,
the poor houses were filled. The hungry and homeless walked the streets
everywhere."

Our job is a lot easier than it was back in Franklin's day.  The next American revolution will really be an awakening of the people - an understanding that we create prosperity and that freedom can only be granted by mutual consent.  And an understanding that we have been duped by a corrupt and parasitic system that has usurped our government.

Larry

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2367
Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Larry,

Well said.

Anything worth keeping is worth fighting for.

America is my home, for better or for worse, and her fate is my own.

Not trying to sound all Star-Warsy and pseudo-philosophical, but the soul of this country is overdue for re-emergence, and if we flee, how long will it be until our perceived sanctuary falls to the same or similar fate?

I won't run. This is my home - and it does not belong to the banksters.

Cheers!

Aaron

Nime's picture
Nime
Status: Bronze Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 29 2009
Posts: 88
Re: Any ideas on a haven?

Larry, I don't live in America so I would have to move there first to fight against FED etc. Not a wise thing to do if one has a familly and doesn't want to sacrifice it, especially given the amount of firepower required to achieve your goals.

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