Anarchism in Action

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Croatoan's picture
Croatoan
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Anarchism in Action

I have been hearing about this out here in Hawaii, just saw this write up on CNN:

"Island DIY: Kauai residents don't wait for state to repair road"

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/09/hawaii.volunteers.repair/index.html

This is anarchism in action and proof that it works. Why do we need money at all? Just do things because they need to be done. 

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Re: Anarchism in Action

That is great to see.   This is what I have been saying for the longest time money does not fix problems people do. 

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Re: Anarchism in Action

I would not jump to the conclusion that "anarchy" is great because a group of citizens took what I would call collective action.

Perhaps you folks could point to a few civilizations that thrived as anarchistic situations, though maybe civilization can't be used in the same sentence as anarchy.

 

SG

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Re: Anarchism in Action

I thought anarchistic government was an oxymoron.

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Re: Anarchism in Action

Does civilization imply government?

 

SG

Croatoan's picture
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Re: Anarchism in Action
capesurvivor wrote:

I would not jump to the conclusion that "anarchy" is great because a group of citizens took what I would call collective action.

Collective action IS anarchy! There is nothing more to it! Just scale it up.

An anarchistic society is not centralized which is why you do not "see" them. We have just been convinced that giving up control to someone is the better option.

 

Croatoan's picture
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Re: Anarchism in Action
jerrydon10 wrote:

I thought anarchistic government was an oxymoron.

No, it is not. Anarchism promotes a non-centralized government. 

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Re: Anarchism in Action
Croatoan wrote:

No, it is not. Anarchism promotes a non-centralized government. 

OK Croatoan,  I'll bite. How does an anarchistic government that doesn't believe in any centralized government provide police, ambulance, first responders, mail service and garbage collection? Either you are lost in the reality of how things work in real life, or I am. Maybe I just don't understand where you are coming from??

Croatoan's picture
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Re: Anarchism in Action
jerrydon10 wrote:
Croatoan wrote:

No, it is not. Anarchism promotes a non-centralized government. 

OK Croatoan,  I'll bite. How does an anarchistic government that doesn't believe in any centralized government provide police, ambulance, first responders, mail service and garbage collection? Either you are lost in the reality of how things work in real life, or I am. Maybe I just don't understand where you are coming from??

They provide them the same way they built the bridge in the article I provided.

The framework of an anarchist society and how it develops and shapes itself is dependent on the needs and desires of those who live in such a society or are trying to create one.

But who needs police if there is no need for property crimes? And haven't you heard of volunteer fire departments? Anarchists! :^)

Just read these and you will start to see it make sense:

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secI5.html#seci512 

http://www.infoshop.org/faq/secIcon.html

 

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Re: Anarchism in Action

I think a lot of people have simply internalized the meme that anarchism as a political concept is the same as the colloquial synonym for "chaos".

I'm not an anarchist, except in the sense that I've always known that large structures (public or private) are intrinsically destructive, tyrannical, anti-social, and unstable. I knew this at first intuitively, later out of research and philosophical study, and of course nowadays through observed fact.

Anarchism still has little space available, but I do think the necessary descent of fossil fuel and exponential debt as civilizational models will open up more space for it, eventually.

Here, as with so many other things, the question is whether society can downsize and decentralize in a rational, ordered way, or whether it must ever more violently try to prop up the zombie Tower of Babel. So far all the evidence, in America and elsewhere, is that top-heavy consolidated power will use every means to prop itself up until it collapses all of once of its own weight.

Unfortunately, it can still do a lot of damage before then, and still use up what real wealth is left. 

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Re: Anarchism in Action
Croatoan wrote:
jerrydon10 wrote:

I thought anarchistic government was an oxymoron.

No, it is not. Anarchism promotes a non-centralized government. 

 I do believe the devil is in the details, specifically what is one's definition of each term. To me (and I didn't make this up, other people reasoned it out and it's the simplest explanation that fits, therefore I tend to accept it):

Government is that which has the legal monopoly on the use of force. Note: not all laws are just, just because something is legal doesn't make it right. Broken down to simplest terms it means that gov't has the biggest gun and what it solely says goes.

Anarchy is the absence of a government. See definition of gov't above.

Just because there is no longer a monopoly on the use of force it doesn't mean your garbage will no longer be collected. It simply means no one entity will be able to decree that such and such is illegal and throw you in jail if you don't comply.

 

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Re: Anarchism in Action

Croatoan,

I love the heading - Anarchism In Action - and found the news link a wonderful example of what a collective of individuals can do. $4 million is a great deal of money. My first thoughts were, "how much did it actually cost this group of people to complete the task..." My second thoughts were exactly how long would it take the 'beaurocratic machine' to go out and assess the work they did as 'deemed' safe before the road could be used...

As soon as 'Anarchism' is used as a word by mainstream, it is most likely tipped in favour of a group of greasy haired losers living in a canvas teepee out in the wilderness using the 'arse bone of a giraffe to dig up the ground;

...the reality is far from true...

State education has many hidden depths. My thoughts aren't guarded with my 'signature' below as it is. Most importantly, exactly how was the world built prior to government intervention - surely, with the mess centralised government has made and its over-balanced top-heavy existence has more than just probably put us in this awful situation we're all now staring at the fast approaching wall of? 

Judging by your other link above on post #8, like me, I feel you probably take no prisoners when it comes to expressing fact from fiction. This is one of my favourite short You Tube films of the past year :-

Civilization - Some Restrictions Apply

 

...that being just a taster, Stefan Molyneux makes for a more direct approach :-

Statism

...and his books (this being the first of many) make for enlightening reading, even for the uninitiated :-

EveryDay Anarchy 

http://www.mississaugatherapy.com/FDR_Books/FDR_4_Everyday_Anarchy.pdf

...and wouldn't it be great if people at CM.com (as a majority) could get past the 3E's to see exactly what is next upon the horizon...

Thankyou for the post!!!

Best,

Paul

 

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Re: Anarchism in Action

Thanks for the links, guys, Its great to hear, read, some intelligent things about anarchism!

 

good work X

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Re: Anarchism in Action

Wow Russ.....  well said.  It always totally pisses me off when I see 'Anarchism' used to describe the violence in the streets at G20 meetings and the like.  The iseology has been hijacked, totally.  But then, how many people understand anything these dats?

Mike 

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Re: Anarchism in Action
Damnthematrix wrote:

Wow Russ.....  well said.  It always totally pisses me off when I see 'Anarchism' used to describe the violence in the streets at G20 meetings and the like.  The iseology has been hijacked, totally.  But then, how many people understand anything these dats?

Mike 

Thanks Mike. 

I'd say the only truly "anarchic" ideology in the chaotic sense of the word is the Hobbesian, vandal "free market" ideology of scorched earth barbarian capitalism, which only wants to transform the world into a might-makes-right free-fire zone.

-Russ  

Croatoan's picture
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Re: Anarchism in Action

I think the best comment about anarchism I have heard was directed at me. Once when I was telling a woman that I did not vote and that advocated anarchism she replied; "Hmmm, you don't look like one." To which I whispered to her; "We are everywhere."

And Russ, I could not agree more.  

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Re: Anarchism in Action

Well, it is an interesting topic for discussion and as I re-read my post above, it comes across as silly. Who would provide fire, police, ambulance, etc? The private sector would.

In fact, that's being done today. Apartment complexes employ private security in many cases. Many rural fire departments charge an annual fee or your fire doesn't get put out.

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Re: Anarchism in Action

"We are everywhere."

Made my day....!

Mike 

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Re: Anarchism in Action

i have found my people

i dont remember where i read it but the best definition of anarchy imho is

"anarchy does not mean out of control it means out of THEIR control"

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Re: Anarchism in Action
jerrydon10 wrote:

In fact, that's being done today. Apartment complexes employ private
security in many cases. Many rural fire departments charge an annual
fee or your fire doesn't get put out.

Isn't that a government where you have a lot of bills instead of one big one due every April 15th? And who gets to choose who heads the police, etc?

Interesting (to me anyway) that when you go far enough to the right and to the left the points of view seem to merge. For example, here are a few words from green anarchist John Zerzan:

http://blog.wired.com/sterling/2008/04/john-zerzan-gre.html

Quote:

Worsening environmental degradation stems from that shift to control—the
domesticating move where nature becomes an object to be manipulated and
dominated. So that’s getting back to a fundamental, primary motor.
Oswald Spengler, a person of the right, a rather horrid person I would
say, said civilization means ultimately nature’s a graveyard because it
just marches forward. Or as German philosopher Martin Heidegger put it,
all of nature is just the raw material for technology; it’s something to
be used up. If you’re not looking at the mainspring, you’re only
operating on the surface.

[...]

Quote:

If we’re going to have a future, it’ll have to be primitive to stop
destroying the Earth, some kind of return to community. I’ve been
writing about social dislocation and what’s been happening with society
as much as with the environment, because I think that gets at the core.

Most of the americans on this site I believe have a vision of returning to the Jeffersonian agrarian society, which is ok, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there are alternatives and civilization may not devolve into looting mobs if there is a common awareness of what is going on.

 

 

Croatoan's picture
Croatoan
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Re: Anarchism in Action
jerrydon10 wrote:

Well, it is an interesting topic for discussion and as I re-read my post above, it comes across as silly. Who would provide fire, police, ambulance, etc? The private sector would.

In fact, that's being done today. Apartment complexes employ private security in many cases. Many rural fire departments charge an annual fee or your fire doesn't get put out.

Well, you are getting there. But there would be no "private sector". Just a public sector. I know it is hard when we were all deeply trained to think in terms of capitalism being the only option, but there would be no need "annual fees", no one to hire, no one to fire, no banks to guard.

Capitalism is antithetical to anarchism since the state rulers are just replaced by land rulers.

Croatoan's picture
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Re: Anarchism in Action
redpoe wrote:
jerrydon10 wrote:

In fact, that's being done today. Apartment complexes employ privatesecurity in many cases. Many rural fire departments charge an annualfee or your fire doesn't get put out.

Isn't that a government where you have a lot of bills instead of one big one due every April 15th? And who gets to choose who heads the police, etc?

Interesting (to me anyway) that when you go far enough to the right and to the left the points of view seem to merge. For example, here are a few words from green anarchist John Zerzan:

Most of the americans on this site I believe have a vision of returning to the Jeffersonian agrarian society, which is ok, and correct me if I'm wrong, but there are alternatives and civilization may not devolve into looting mobs if there is a common awareness of what is going on.

I just want to be clear here that anarchist is not an ideology of the right or of the left. What I think you see is that right and left, when pushed far enough, both lead to anarchism. The left needs to let go of the state and the right needs to let go of the capital.

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