The American Revolution or Dear Jason

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joe2baba's picture
joe2baba
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Posts: 807
The American Revolution or Dear Jason

Happy Independence day y'all. what exactly we are independent from is the burning question however.

i have been put on notice by moderator jason that i should refrain from advocating violence on this site even agreeing with someone is now verboten. believe me i would do nothing to hinder the capitalistic aims of this site . therefore i offer the following six principles of the next american revolution. for further understanding of the word revolution i would refer the modrator and others to mr websters dictionary.

PRINCIPLES OF THE REVOLUTION

1. we are required to speak freely

2 we have a duty to rebel continually against injustice and oppression

3. ordinary people are supposed to run things

4. americans cherish the rule of law

5.america establishes no god

6. americans deliberate with their neighbors. we disagree without violence.

i hope this is clear as mud to jason and etal. (of course right off the bat on this site number one is a big problem)_

if not then by all means you are welcome to delete it and ban me for life or whatever it is you deem appropriate.

now i think i will go get ready to grill some tofu thereby contributing to global warming

love all ways

om shanti

joe

Full Moon's picture
Full Moon
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Posts: 1258
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

 Geeez  Joe  ,  

   You set High expectations from lowly Humans .   But  best  wishes to  this Idea .  Just stirring up passion among the dead is better than nothing .

  And Go for all the Grilled  Tofu you want ... even my share .

  Diana

 

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
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Posts: 5734
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

I am going to leave Joe's post up for the rest of the day as an example of the type of posts that I find mainly destructive in their intent, and then delete it.

Passive-aggressive posts are among my least favorites, and Joe2 has really nailed the art-form on this one.

The purpose of this site is to attract more people to the important messages in the Crash Course and create a safe place for people to discuss the implications.

Anything that causes people to feel unwelcome or unsafe is simply not allowed and that is clearly spelled out in the forum posting guidelines.    Anything that might cause fewer people to visit and remain at the site is running counter to the mission of this site.

The mission is to attract not repel people.

Further, from this point forward any and all insinuations that there's something wrong with this site needing to attract capital or resources to further its mission will not be tolerated.  I don't know what sorts of wounds people carry that cause them to say things like, "believe me i would do nothing to hinder the capitalistic aims of this site." but this is not a psychiatrists office and we lack both the ability and the desire to help people work through their personal issues around money.

Everything that is worth doing in life deserves and requires support.  That could be donated time, money, equipment, or careful thoughts and considered posts.  I don't require or expect everybody to think that the aims of this site and its messages are worthy, but I do require that those, such as Joe2, who do not share this view to either keep their opinions to themselves or take their enmity towards the aims of this site elsewhere.

Lastly, in my mind, Joe2 has abused his anonymity and the site guidelines by posting written words that he would dare not speak in person.  At least, I would be truly shocked to have someone walk into my establishment and stare me in the eye while proclaiming loudly to all the patrons that the products are suspect or overpriced or whatever. 

I will continue to hold this site to a higher standard than found elsewhere on the web.  We will be civil with each other, respectful, thoughtful and considerate. 

I want posts to be data rich, and constructive (especially if critical).  This is not my attempt to stifle conversation but to elevate it.  I am not seeking compliance with my point of view or how this site is constructed and/or operated, only asking that all critiques be accompanied by thoughtful suggestions for improvement, or not proffered at all.  Dumping on people and efforts is simple, lame and weak.

Tearing down is easy.  Building is hard.

Negativity breeds negativity while positive efforts yield positive results.

More on this later, as we are busily working on expressing the site's vision, mission and expectations in written form.

In the meantime I would only ask that posts be self-monitored by asking these questions:

  1. Does this post illuminate an issue or answer a specific question?
  2. If critical, is it emotionally neutral, considerate and does it offer specific, actionable solutions?
  3. Is there anything about this post which might cause a new visitor to flee?

 

JAG's picture
JAG
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Oct 26 2008
Posts: 2492
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

Glad that your back Dr. M, have a good holiday.

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
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Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

Joe2baba said:  offer the following six principles of the next american revolutionn.  for further understanding of the word revolution

  1. we are required to speak freely
  2. we have a duty to rebel continually against injustice and oppression
  3. ordinary people are supposed to run things
  4. americans cherish the rule of law
  5. america establishes no god
  6. americans deliberate with their neighbors. we disagree without violence.

Joe, if that's the definition of revolution, then we need one.  I'd like to add something about patriotism. 

American patriotism has been corrupted to be something that is felt rather than thought. We are told that patriotism is loyalty to the state but it was never meant to be that way, at least not by our founding fathers.  Our loyalty is precious and should be reserved for family, friends and community; in that order.

Our founding fathers cautioned us repeatedly that we must be forever vigilant to maintain our freedom. Thomas Paine defined patriotism in a way that needs remembered "It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government."

The framers of the Constitution were suspicious of any government, including the one they had created. Patrick Henry put things in their proper prospective "the Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government."

Here's my list of what patriotism is: 

  1. Fidelity to the constitution and the bill of rights.  The constitution defines our republic, without it, we become a nation that issues justice and freedom by allowing government to dispense it as they wish.  The 10th Amendment clearly states:  The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.   No gray areas, no crazy interpretations - if it doesn't say they can do it, they can't.
  2. Exercise your rights or lose them.  Freedom of speech is a critical right and we are seeing the government arbitrarily narrow the definition in an on-going conspiracy to circumvent and shred the constitution.  This morning, in keeping with the patriotic theme of the 4th of July, I went out and shot guns for awhile.
  3. We have a duty to rebel continually against injustice and oppression  (h/t Joe2baba)
  4. End the Fed.  Of course, this would be covered with number bullet item #1 but I wanted to mention because they should be the enemy of every patriot.  There is no hope of us having a sovereign nation as long as a small elite group controls and issues our monetary system behind closed doors and independent of the wishes of the people and their elected government.

Let's enjoy the 4th of July (especially fireworks) and remember that this is our country.

Larry

Cloudfire's picture
Cloudfire
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 29 2008
Posts: 1813
Re: The American Revolution
joe2baba wrote:

 THE REVOLUTION

1. we are required to speak freely

2 we have a duty to rebel continually against injustice and oppression

3. ordinary people are supposed to run things

4. americans cherish the rule of law

5.america establishes no god

6. americans deliberate with their neighbors. we disagree without violence.

 

I'm not so sure I agree with all of these, as stated:

1. we are required to speak freely

I'd like to be allowed to remain silent, if I choose to.

2 we have a duty to rebel continually against injustice and oppression

I think it's sometimes useful to use judgement and abide by some injustices, as life will never be entirely fair for everyone.  There will always be some folks who perceive themselves as slighted or shorted.  Continual rebellion might be disruptive.

3. ordinary people are supposed to run things

Here's where you really lose me.  I'd like extraordinary people to be running the society I live in . . .  We don't have to go far to find an example of this principle in action . . . I think that most of us would prefer that someone with extraordinary skills, experience, and integrity is better suited to head up any organization, whether that is a large political entity, or a website.  I'd much rather have an extraordinary highly trained surgeon with a strong work ethic head up my surgical team than the ordinary fellow who shows up late to empty the trash.

4. americans cherish the rule of law

Can't argue with the principle. . . Enforcement might be a problem.

5.america establishes no god

No state is capable of establishing God's existence or nonexistence.  It can only acknowledge or deny what is already so, or plead the fifth.  

6. americans deliberate with their neighbors. we disagree without violence.

Ah!  Here we agree fully, if only in principle.

 

 

Jarhett's picture
Jarhett
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Nov 21 2008
Posts: 132
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

Free Joe2, End the tranny of Moderator Jason,

Here is a good video for 4th of July.

 

cmartenson's picture
cmartenson
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Joined: Jun 7 2007
Posts: 5734
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

Free Joe2, End the tranny of Moderator Jason,

I don't follow.  Can you please state your point more clearly and with more words so I don't accidentally mistake sarcasm for serious intent, or vice versa?

A. M.'s picture
A. M.
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Joined: Oct 22 2008
Posts: 2368
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

I really hope folks look at this and think very hard before they post in the future.

Joe2Baba and I have agreed and disagreed in the past, ant it's with the utmost respect to all that I say this:

This is a place to gather and be friends - not enemies!
I'm not sure when this confrontational attitude creeped in here, but lets table it and get back to the discussions of how we can solve these problems on a practical level!

I can understand the frusteration in both camps, as the conversation here as of late has been increasingly hostile, pointless, focused on negatives, rather than proposition and discussion of potential solutions, and the situation outside is becoming more and more despotic.

Again, I'm not point the finger at anyone, because I'm equally guilty.
Out of respect for others I've cut my posting way back to refrain from making a fool of myself, or perpetuating conversations that are mathematically unresolvable.
A lot of these discussions; revolution, global warming, ad nauseum are as pointless as trying to divide by zero.

If we have to have a "call to arms", let's make it community involvement and action rather than infighting over pedantic issues that cannot be solved on the microscale...

Time is coming we're going to need one another more than ever. Let's show the due respect to Doctor Martenson and his staff, and try to get back on track...

Aaron

becky's picture
becky
Status: Silver Member (Offline)
Joined: Jan 8 2009
Posts: 113
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

 Joe,

Please don't get yourself kicked off this site.  I might not always agree with you, but I would miss you.  I think you have a good heart.  But, remember, Dr. Martenson's name is on this website.  That means his reputation is a little more on the line than the rest of us.  Aaron's right.  We need each other -- and we need this website so that we can continue to find each other.

becky

Cloudfire's picture
Cloudfire
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Sep 29 2008
Posts: 1813
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason
Aaron Moyer wrote:

I really hope folks look at this and think very hard before they post in the future.

Joe2Baba and I have agreed and disagreed in the past, ant it's with the utmost respect to all that I say this:

This is a place to gather and be friends - not enemies!
I'm not sure when this confrontational attitude creeped in here, but lets table it and get back to the discussions of how we can solve these problems on a practical level!

I can understand the frusteration in both camps, as the conversation here as of late has been increasingly hostile, pointless, focused on negatives, rather than proposition and discussion of potential solutions, and the situation outside is becoming more and more despotic.

Again, I'm not point the finger at anyone, because I'm equally guilty.
Out of respect for others I've cut my posting way back to refrain from making a fool of myself, or perpetuating conversations that are mathematically unresolvable.
A lot of these discussions; revolution, global warming, ad nauseum are as pointless as trying to divide by zero.

If we have to have a "call to arms", let's make it community involvement and action rather than infighting over pedantic issues that cannot be solved on the microscale...

Time is coming we're going to need one another more than ever. Let's show the due respect to Doctor Martenson and his staff, and try to get back on track...

Aaron

 

I'll call, and raise you $0.02   . . . You nailed it Aaron! 

 

 

DrKrbyLuv's picture
DrKrbyLuv
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Aug 10 2008
Posts: 1995
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason

Hello,

Chris and Aaron both asked that we take a closer look at this thread.  Out of respect for both, I have and I'd like to share my take so I may better understand.  I'd like to find the comfort zone whereby I can support the mission of this site while still talking freely (responsibly) in this back room we call the forum. 

First, let me get 3 things out of the way:

  • I enjoy the vast majority of Joe's posts and hope things work out so this may continue.  Maybe an apology or clarification is in order. This is not my business and I'll move on.
  • It's rude to ostracize a moderator, especially in public - this should not happen.  On more of a personal level, I can say the few (dozen) times I've said something out of line, Jason has gone the extra mile in explaining the situation.  So, I kinda cringe if he's attacked.  Let's face it, moderators have a difficult job and sometimes they must use a broad brush in painting the lines on the road.  People often type as they talk, and we lose track of the fact that text has no inflection, no facial expression and no hand gestures.  Text may come across as cold or disparaging even though it may not have been meant that way.  We should pay attention to how we come across in the world of text.  And some of us can type faster than we think which creates it's own problems. 
  • Paying the bills is an integral part of any website.  This particular one has an easy and rich (you can post graphs, pics, etc) forum interface which costs more money.  It's not our business how the bills are paid.  I don't mean to imply that Joe was condemning this fact but it sure could have come across that way. 

As far as the rest of the content of Joe's post, I think he was constructive in offering a bulleted list to explain his position.  I learned, as usual, from his comments.

Aaron said:  Out of respect for others I've cut my posting way back to refrain from making a fool of myself, or perpetuating conversations that are mathematically unresolvable.

Aaron, I hope you do not "cut my [your] posting way back."  Personally, I would prefer that you feel free to post your thoughts without too much reservation.  It's a bargain if you slip up on one in delivering several gems.  You're one of those people that I can disagree with 20% of the time and still greatly value and learn from the majority; 80%.

Thanks,

Larry

SagerXX's picture
SagerXX
Status: Diamond Member (Offline)
Joined: Feb 11 2009
Posts: 2238
Re: The American Revolution or Dear Jason
Aaron Moyer wrote:

If we have to have a "call to arms", let's make it community involvement and action rather than infighting over pedantic issues that cannot be solved on the microscale...

Time is coming we're going to need one another more than ever. 

Second that! -- Sager

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